"Bush Doesn't Like Black People..."

Shumdit said:
While I am not going to debate you on your points (since I agree with many, and am too unedcuated on most of the others) I think you should watch the video. The quote that started the thread is not what makes me say that he is failing to reach the non-black community (and to be more factual, I should say failing to reach anyone who actually listens to what he said). He said that the goverment is allowing soldiers to go into NO and shoot black people, as if it were for sport. That is the idiotic statement I find so hard to believe. If he wants to say Bush does not like black people, I have no issue with that, since W. seems to be a punching bag for the media these days anyway, and by and large the entertainment industry is very anti-Republican. Watch the video, then give me your honest opinon of his statements.
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I don't really need to watch the video... I have Family down there and have experienced their views on what has happened... They are now relocated to Atlanta... so they are lucky to be fine...They are insulted when the are labled as looters and "Refugee" Damn refugee, were we smuggled over to Houston by man made rafts? People can understand the po;itical wrangling that is and will be going on behind this.

If he made a statement that was not backed up by facts, then he put himself out there for Criticism as well as any other voicing that will come... IMHO, unless he or any of the others are down there experiencing it, then they can't speak factually... That area has been poor for a long time. Only now it is a problem because those people will be displaced to other areas...

There are plenty of people in Society that are helping out, all colors of the rainbow, doing what needs to be done, some of them are getting slapped in the face by the very same people that they take into their homes or provide finance to. Some of those very same people continue to help after getting slapped... Those are the people that are setting the example making a difference...

The fact that someone would give Kanya West, the kind of weight that may influence anyone that has the ability to think for themselves is just plain funny... He is no different than anyone else that thinks their celebrity may make people listen if they say something that they feel is profound...

Since I truly don't hold anyone as a celebrity, I could care less about what he has to say unless he lives in New Orleans... If he is speaking from a viewpoint for his own benefit I couldn't care less... If he is trying to cause some attention to be paid to the situstion, then great... He will have to fend for himself behind what he has said... Apparently he is not worried too much...

Republicans, Democrats who gives a crap... I don't think the people down there care very much about political parties right now... I think they are more concerned about their and theirs well being... The Politicians are doing what the always do, divide the meek and week and grab some more votes in any situation that will provide it.

The government allowing soldiers to go into NO to shoot Black people,,, Sounds like something happened and we have not been given all of the facts... I have heard that there have been some pretty heated exchanges.. If a soldier needed to protect him/her self , then they very well should...
I think that Mr. West may be voicing on another issue that has nothing to do with our military... Hell the Cops get to do that, they don't need the military.

He hasn't failed to reach the Non-black community, it is being discussed all over the place not just on NSX Prime. He has failed to express himself in a way that is much more palapable for most people to swallow... He failed to have any facts when he had the floor... So whether it was calculated or not, he made his statement blatent... I don't know his reasons so I won't assume.

For the record, I don't think that Bush or his administration values the American Public as a whole.. I think the loyalty that has been showed by this administration has been very onesided and clear to anyone that wants to see past what they can benefit from it... He values those that have put him into power and those that stand to keep the balance of power swayed to one side... I just think it's a shame that everything can become black and white... I can't think of anything that upsets the balance of society more... In the national disaster, it has still managed to become as trivial as Black and white.... Guess what, we all eventually die, I would rather do it after having made a difference, rather than gathered as many nuts as possible to hide within my family tree.

Bush Bashing...He is no different than any other CEO, He is accountable for the actions of all of those under him... I would love to see a Session of congress or Administration when the people responsible are reviewed... I wonder who will take the blame? N.O. adminstration, most likely... No one on the hill will be in any serious trouble and they know it... If it were truly run like a company, how many people would get fired? If it were an area with real money and real consequence for someone of power, the outrage would be deafening... Yes he should be bashed He is messing up backwards and forwards and pride will not let people admit it to themselves. (JMHO)
 
Frankly, I couldn't care less what Kanye West has to say. He's a marginally talented musician who someone with bad decision making skills handed a microphone to at a time when level heads are needed. Nothing more, nothing less.

He's absolutely entitled to his opinion. And honestly, while I disagree with a lot of what he said, that isn't what pisses me off.

What pisses me off is this. That venue was neither the time nor the place for him to opine to anything. It's not about him, his opinions, Mr. Bush, or Mr. Bush's or anyone else's failings. It's about bringing needed relief to our brothers and sisters in the Gulf Coast.

And whether you agree with West or not, I think you're hardpressed to argue the point that his decision to shoot off his mouth and stray from the script could have, and probably did, alienate some viewers and negatively impacted the fund raising efforts. I know two people from my work (one Latina and one black) who basically decided not to write checks that day because of how disgusted they were with West's comments. Thankfully, both have since realized that it's not abut one idiot with a microphone and they've generously opened their wallets again but I have to believe there were more people who had this same experience.

Racism is real in America. I'm a minority, I know it. But we're not going to make progress on that front, and most importantly right now, we're not helpig these poor souls (of all races, creeds, and colors) by going off half-cocked with boneheaded moves like that.
 
len3.8 said:
I don't know if he appeared drunk, high, or what, I didn't bother to look at the video. I just know that he must have spoken his mind loudly, because people are reacting and dialoguing all about it. His point of view is his point of view, he is guaranteed to express that by the Constitution.

Your statement about convincing those out of the African American community is a perfect example of how things can be taken out of context...

He seemed uneducated to you, so therefore no one outside of the African American community (They are uneducated enough to understand him) were convinced by his view points...

Newsflash, people in a impoverished AA community don't need Kanye to express that viewpoint. They don't need anyone to express their disdain for their surroundings. They are expressing it through their actions. Just like the <ST1:tongue:lace w:st="on">Watts</ST1:tongue:lace> riots, The LA riots after Rodney King, Just like other uproars after a time of frustration. They are getting the attention that was needed at the beginning of their plight... All of the people that are down there will benefit from the attention that is now being focused to that part of the country...

I have yet to see a interview of any other race suffering through the aftermath (down their) complaining about the new found attention to the problems of the victims of this Hurricane. I would bet that they are pretty upset with the way things were handled in the beginning as well.

People stealing to be stealing, would do it whenever the opportunity presents itself... I wonder how many Black pawn shop owners there are ? I wonder who will eventually purchase these stolen goods ? Gotta sell them to get the $$$s for them... The people that are doing this to survive to eat, hotel $$$s, ect.. I don't blame them I would walk through hell and fight with the devil, to feed my kids....

The people that are doing this as an opportunity to have some of the nicer things that the other people have, are misdirected and the priorities are all screwed up...

Those that will charge enormous fees for goods and services after this, are already licking their chops... They can't wait to get in and Loot the American Taxpayer... Are you guys going to scream about looting then? I bet not...

I don't get it, The media spins the tide anyway they want, and people can come to a general consensus about the facts, They don't peel back the layers, they don't do a little investigating, they just take what's reported and believe it... Ignorance is so blissful to those that are running things... Spin control is so much easier that way...

Trivialize the situation, and yes it has become an issue of Black/White, nothing about the people that are in between, because they will most likely seek the side that has the power.. Fall into, or speak from that norm...

It's a shame that people will not take off the blinders and see the big picture..

Haves and Have Nots... You can bet your bottom dollar that if a affluent area was hit by this Hurricane, they would have had all of the resources to deal with it... Looting, I'm sorry finding food and clothing would not be an issue.<O:tongue:></O:tongue:>

How close to the Wilshire Dist. did the looting/finding get in LA?

I don't need Kanye or anyone else to tell me that Bush doesn't like Black people... He isn't the first President to ignore the poor, and he won't be the last... Boy this will sound horrible, but I wish this would have happened in The Hamptons or some affluent area, then the poor people wouldn't have lost what little that they had... Barb Bush said it herself, now there will be a newer and better <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on">New Orleans</st1:City>.. Can you say permanently displaced? Or a hell of a “Gap Financing Bill” paid by the taxpayers... But the construction companies will prosper... I am not worried about the little BS being taken from the Walmarts and other stores, I am worried about the Aftermath, the ridiculous profiting that is on the way....
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Maybe I am misunderstanding your point, so correct me if i'm wrong. I'm getting the impression that you feel that it's ok for the AA (african American?) community to get away with "expressing" their feelings by looting just like the way they "expressed" their feelings during the LA riots?? Because they were frustrated? So that gives them the right to attack asian communities because they don't have as much influence as the black community?

I remember my uncle's apartment complex was attacked by the so called "frustrated" AA's as you so put it and they recieved NO help from the local PD's because they were guarding the "wealthy areas". He and all of his tennants had to go out and arm themselves to protect their family's and homes! I personally know several people that have lost loved ones during to LA riots to these so called "frustrated people". I'm sorry but you didn't hear bitching from the korean and other asian communities for the lack of police protection. While the AA community tried to press charges against the Korean communities that armed and protected themselves.

So I personally feel that this so called "frustration and expression" is a bunch of b#llSh^t. Pardon my french.
 
NsSeX said:
Maybe I am misunderstanding your point, so correct me if i'm wrong. I'm getting the impression that you feel that it's ok for the AA (african American?) community to get away with "expressing" their feelings by looting just like the way they "expressed" their feelings during the LA riots?? Because they were frustrated? So that gives them the right to attack asian communities because they don't have as much influence as the black community?

I remember my uncle's apartment complex was attacked by the so called "frustrated" AA's as you so put it and they recieved NO help from the local PD's because they were guarding the "wealthy areas". He and all of his tennants had to go out and arm themselves to protect their family's and homes! I personally know several people that have lost loved ones during to LA riots to these so called "frustrated people". I'm sorry but you didn't hear bitching from the korean and other asian communities for the lack of police protection. While the AA community tried to press charges against the Korean communities that armed and protected themselves.

So I personally feel that this so called "frustration and expression" is a bunch of b#llSh^t. Pardon my french.
Click to expand...

Yes, you are so far off it's not even funny... I don't see anywhere in my post where you can tie it to me saying that it was okay to loot or find in any communities... I surely never said anything about asia communities... However they and Hispanics and Whites and others looted in LA, but let's not cloud the issue, because I was right in the middle of the LA riots...

But once again you have made another post that shows that you feel that one community is doing the looting... When you and I both know that it is many different races that are in fact looting or finding... If one is overly represented then it takes the entire blame... It is a shame that an entire community has to shoulder the blame for the acts of a few... However the lesser represented shoulders none... It's just a white lie... They are finding...
I would bet that there are others looting or finding things as well.
Like I said before, Whose Pawn shop will it end up in and what will be done to that person? He shoulders no blame either, but he alomg with others will reap the rewards.

Yes, I feel it is okay for people to take things that they need to survive from stores like Food, clothing, Diapers, shoes, ect. as long as it is taken out of purely the last step or the logical step. No, I don't feel that anyone should be put in harms way due to someone wanting something that they feel is of value... If I were in the same situation, I would take the items that my family needed for survival, id would be stupid if I didn't... In that same breath I would not stand in the way of any material object that someone has deemed a necessity, they can have it, it's not worth my life... (With the exception of my family members) I would not stand guard at my store front to protect the bacon and eggs or the Hennesy and Rum in the cooler...

Call it BS if you will... History has shown that the breaking points do arise.
Call it frustration, call it all out anger, envy, whatever you want to label it.
There is cause and effect, it usually effects the innocent.
 
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I completely disagree with the statement that looting is justified in times of a crisis. Obviously there are exceptions, however what happened during the LA riots and in New Orleans cannot all be justified in that exception. Blame the television crews, Katrina, social class differences, whatever....but the simple truth is that history has shown time and time again that the perception of certain ethnic background/s looting more than others have some truth in it.
Also, when you start justifying certain acts......who determines where and when to draw the lines? Obviously some people justified one too many acts of criminal behavior when hospitals and other emergency personel come under fire. No matter how you rationalize it....justification for looting or other criminal behavior does not help relieve the situation but rather propels it to a path of utter chaos.
 
Ennesssex said:
I completely disagree with the statement that looting is justified in times of a crisis. Obviously there are exceptions, however what happened during the LA riots and in New Orleans cannot all be justified in that exception. Blame the television crews, Katrina, social class differences, whatever....but the simple truth is that history has shown time and time again that the perception of certain ethnic background/s looting more than others have some truth in it.
Also, when you start justifying certain acts......who determines where and when to draw the lines? Obviously some people justified one too many acts of criminal behavior when hospitals and other emergency personel come under fire. No matter how you rationalize it....justification for looting or other criminal behavior does not help relieve the situation but rather propels it to a path of utter chaos.
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So you must really be pissed off about gay bashing the drug trade, Enron, Serial killings, linchings, ect.?

No one says it was justified. I think you are confusing the fact that some said they could understand and that they would do the same as well, if it were a matter of survival...

I think that History has also shown that those ethnic backgrounds have been the same ethnic backgrounds that have been living in poverty... The crimes can always be classified, what's amazing is that with all of the history, nothing of significance has really changed, so therefore we are faced with that "utter chaos"

So send your solutions to Capital Hill, because judgment and finger pointing will not change a thing. Once again, there is Cause and Effect.. what would you do that would cause a major effect? Something that would really cause an adverse effect positively?
 
As far as West is concerned, eveyone is entitled to their opinion here in the U.S. so he can speak as he wishes. I have heard 100's of opinions on this Hurricane issue in the last week.

The lack of initial action was and is not a race issue. It is a complete lack of preparedness on FEMA's part because of the major cuts within their budget. This event was way to extreme for local and state to handle alone and the lack of "importance" that the FEMA agency is given lately within a country that has many "natural" disasters is ridiculous. It is one of the most important agencies within the US but it is on its way out with these cuts. It is in place to protect the U.S. but completly failed Americans this week.

A gentleman said it best on Dateline earlier today:
This hurricane was predicted and we (the U.S., FEMA, La) saw it coming for days. Imagine the complete disarray the U.S. would be in if we had multiple unexpected terrorist attacks across the US’s major metro cities. Hmm.

Article from the Washngton Post the day after the hurricane >> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/29/AR2005082901445.html


Anyhow, 4-5-6 days for help was entirely to long – black, white, green, yellow, American. Period.

-jc-
 
len3.8 said:
So you must really be pissed off about gay bashing the drug trade, Enron, Serial killings, linchings, ect.?

No one says it was justified. I think you are confusing the fact that some said they could understand and that they would do the same as well, if it were a matter of survival...

I think that History has also shown that those ethnic backgrounds have been the same ethnic backgrounds that have been living in poverty... The crimes can always be classified, what's amazing is that with all of the history, nothing of significance has really changed, so therefore we are faced with that "utter chaos"

So send your solutions to Capital Hill, because judgment and finger pointing will not change a thing. Once again, there is Cause and Effect.. what would you do that would cause a major effect? Something that would really cause an adverse effect positively?
Click to expand...

No, I am not really pissed about Enron, drug trade...etc......however I do not agree with it just like the looting that occurred in L.A. and NO.

And as far as justification goes.......your exact words in a previous quote stated: "Yes, I feel it is okay for people to take things that they need to survive from stores like Food, clothing, Diapers, shoes, ect. as long as it is taken out of purely the last step or the logical step." I am not sure what your definition of justification is....however this to me means justifying criminal behavior.

You are right in the fact history has shown certain ethnic backgrounds to have been in poverty for more periods than others....however this is still not some excuse that excludes one from accountability. As I'm sure your well aware of, criminal behavior occurs in all positions in society and I am not saying one ethnic community is innocent of anything. However when dealing with the specific behavior of looting during times of distress, etc....IMHO I find the "statement" supported by "frustrated" occurances. Is that pointing the finger? Possibly. Is that stating a fact? Possibly as well.

I do agree with you that pointing fingers does not fix "our" problems or differences. However keeping them all vent up inside does not either.
 
Ennesssex said:
No, I am not really pissed about Enron, drug trade...etc......however I do not agree with it just like the looting that occurred in L.A. and NO.

And as far as justification goes.......your exact words in a previous quote stated: "Yes, I feel it is okay for people to take things that they need to survive from stores like Food, clothing, Diapers, shoes, ect. as long as it is taken out of purely the last step or the logical step." I am not sure what your definition of justification is....however this to me means justifying criminal behavior.

You are right in the fact history has shown certain ethnic backgrounds to have been in poverty for more periods than others....however this is still not some excuse that excludes one from accountability. As I'm sure your well aware of, criminal behavior occurs in all positions in society and I am not saying one ethnic community is innocent of anything.
I do agree with you that pointing fingers does not fix "our" problems or differences. However keeping them all vent up inside does not either.
Click to expand...


So let me understand this... If you and your family were cut off from say, clean water to drink, food, dry goods, clothing... ect.. And there is a Super Wal mart or whatever close to you... However, it is not open, nor is it capable of serving you as a customer, you would not take anything to benefit your family? I am not talking TVs and personal electronics... I am talking Maybe that 16 pack of water, those oranges, the unspoiled lunch meat and maybe some pampers for the little baby of the family? You would go without, because you can't pay for the items? So you would just leave them there?

By the way this statement, I challenge you to state the statistics.
I think the ethnic(s) groups that you are refering to would not win out...
Maybe recent history is what you meant, because history would show differently.

Your Statement:

"completely disagree with the statement that looting is justified in times of a crisis. Obviously there are exceptions, however what happened during the LA riots and in New Orleans cannot all be justified in that exception. Blame the television crews, Katrina, social class differences, whatever....but the simple truth is that history has shown time and time again that the perception of certain ethnic background/s looting more than others have some truth in it."



I don't agree with looting either, however If it were my store, It would be easy for me to forgive those that took out of pure need and not pure greed.
I find it utterly repulsive that people don't get this upset over the enrons and savings and loan scandals and the like...

Some of the worst crimes in America go un-challenged, steal a loaf of bread and you could end up in jail for life.. Steal a persons lifes savings, his home, destroy his family and you may get 3 years in a Federal prison... However, it didn't piss America off, why? Who got hurt? Who got even more wealthy?

Get stuck on a mountain after an airplane crash, eat the azz out of the dead person laying next to you and you are resourceful, not a canibal.. Hell they will make movies about your ordeal... Well hell I didn't loot him, I found his azz just laying there, so I sampled it a little..No one talked about the families of the eaten...

I would love to go on and on, However, I know that most are tired of my posts. So I will just say that some of us can agree to disagree... I have to go. Nite.
 
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The looting began within hours after Katrina left the city. Did people run out of food/stereos that fast?
 
terrypancake said:
The looting began within hours after Katrina left the city. Did people run out of food/stereos that fast?
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I think that we have established the fact that noone truly agreed with the acts that were criminal.
As your post, I assume, was meant to be sarcastic. I would think that some people were smart enough to know what kind of damage was happening, seeing that they were in the middle of the sewage and dead bodies and all, maybe they were thinking of what would not be available later... I guess they could have found the refrigerators that were not under water, or drink the tainted water.
 
terrypancake said:
I think the two full plastic trash cans beer and liquor was necessary for survival. It would help me survive.

http://www.nola.com/hurricane/t-p/katrina.ssf?/hurricane/katrina/stories/083005_a19_looting.html
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Carried by two Teenagers... How many teenagers ask you to cop for them?
I see it all the time, Not in my neighborhood though..
Yes they were wrong, sumply stealing... like the entire act of looting is, it's just what they were taking was senseless...

However, I feel that you must not be reading into the fact that this was stated as NOT being condoned...It hardly represents what I was justifying. I must say that I am biased, because I don't drink at all. So the act is truly inane to me.
 
While this debate continues to spiral downward, I'll throw in my $.02 that I have no idea how the word refugee can be assumed to have any racial component. A refugee is a person who is seeking refuge. That's all. It's not a racial term and it's not a derogatory term. It does appear that the majority of refugees are black, but that's no surprise - the majority of New Orleans was black (85% IIRC).
 
len3.8 said:
Carried by two Teenagers... How many teenagers ask you to cop for them?
I see it all the time, Not in my neighborhood though..
Yes they were wrong, sumply stealing... like the entire act of looting is, it's just what they were taking was senseless...

However, I feel that you must not be reading into the fact that this was stated as NOT being condoned...It hardly represents what I was justifying. I must say that I am biased, because I don't drink at all. So the act is truly inane to me.
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Hey Len

I'm minority as well and am truly not suprised by some of the rhetoric by some of the members here. While I agree that this started as someone thinking that the West comment was funny and had no idea that it would blow up into this. Some members have used it to show their "conservative views" that have blossomed under the current administration. Do I hold Bush responsible...No! Did I vote for him...No. He's an idiot plain and simple and has nothing to do with this thread or the disaster in NO. West comment was not called for plain and simple. It was funny though especially the look on Mike meyers and Chris Tuckers face :biggrin:


P.S keep up the good work reminding people about the facts. Yeah it is odd that more "conservatives" have forgotten about Enron. Except the fact that they didn't get a piece!
 
my $.02:

i am **very** thankful that it's not me and my family suffering through the pain of the storm/aftermath. but if we were stuck in an area that were as hard hit as much of the katrina area was, were unable to get out of the area and to safety/shelter and we were desperate for food, clothing, medication *just* to survive, you can bet your bottom dollar i'd find a way into whatever facility had the materials we needed.

imho, survival items don't include tv's/stereo's, but that could change for information gathering/bartering purposes should the calvary not show up for an even longer period of time.
 
Dave Hardy said:
While this debate continues to spiral downward, I'll throw in my $.02 that I have no idea how the word refugee can be assumed to have any racial component. A refugee is a person who is seeking refuge. That's all. It's not a racial term and it's not a derogatory term. It does appear that the majority of refugees are black, but that's no surprise - the majority of New Orleans was black (85% IIRC).
Click to expand...

The Refugee Act formally incorporated into U.S. law the international definition of refugee contained in the 1951 United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees and its 1967 Protocol. A refugee is defined as a person outside of his or her country of nationality who is unable or unwilling to return because of persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.

No one said it had racial connotations, just hurtful...
Everything is not about race.

Downward spiral, hardly.. unless people sharing different viewpoints in a informational manner is considered so. I think most of us know that we will never agree on everything or persuade everyone if anyone to think totally like ourselves... The downward spiral would come from any closed mindedness that would be posted to the thread. I have yet to see that. Other than the Comments of Mr. West to some point.

Until later, I gotta go find some things....
 
len3.8 said:
But once again you have made another post that shows that you feel that one community is doing the looting... When you and I both know that it is many different races that are in fact looting or finding... If one is overly represented then it takes the entire blame... It is a shame that an entire community has to shoulder the blame for the acts of a few... However the lesser represented shoulders none... It's just a white lie... They are finding...
I would bet that there are others looting or finding things as well.
Like I said before, Whose Pawn shop will it end up in and what will be done to that person? He shoulders no blame either, but he alomg with others will reap the rewards.

.
Click to expand...

Like you said I misunderstood, I was under the impression that you believed it to be ok to show "frustration" and "expression" just like what happened during the LA riots. I'm not pointing fingers at any racial groups. If I came out that way I apologize.
 
NsSeX said:
Like you said I misunderstood, I was under the impression that you believed it to be ok to show "frustration" and "expression" just like what happened during the LA riots. I'm not pointing fingers at any racial groups. If I came out that way I apologize.
Click to expand...

No problem here.. I appreciate it, but no need to apologize for stating a concern or a point of view. May not agree with them all, but I sure try to decipher the points given.

I also know how it is to have the long days and have a button pushed.
It's all gravy....
 
The foot in mouth disease spreads again.

Barbara Bush, commenting on the evacuees in Houston's Astrodome:

'What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality," she said during a radio interview with the American Public Media program "Marketplace." "And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/06/katrina.presidents.ap/index.html
 
did'nt see her trademark pearls.....

fangtl said:
The foot in mouth disease spreads again.

Barbara Bush, commenting on the evacuees in Houston's Astrodome:

'What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality," she said during a radio interview with the American Public Media program "Marketplace." "And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/06/katrina.presidents.ap/index.html
Click to expand...

moms can be pretty scary themselves..... :mad:
nasty quote from a victim of poopoobrain ds....

she's soooo sweet! :confused:
 

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