Bedding brakes... how immedite does it have to be?

[TURBO2GO]

How long after install can one wait before bedding the brakes? I just had my stoptechs put on and I did a search here and found the bedding proceedure is rather drastic, 10 hard stops from 80 MPH in a row followed by a cool down and 10 more. I don't have a local track so I have to head out to the highway to do this nutty proceedure late night when there is no traffic.

How fast does this need to be done? Is it OK to put some miles on the car before doing this? The stoptech manual doesn't really say and I didn't find anything on my searches.

 

[CL65 Captain]

What pads? Street pads, not a big deal.

sent from my crappy cell phone.

 

[2slow2speed]

How long after install can one wait before bedding the brakes? I just had my stoptechs put on and I did a search here and found the bedding proceedure is rather drastic, 10 hard stops from 80 MPH in a row followed by a cool down and 10 more. I don't have a local track so I have to head out to the highway to do this nutty proceedure late night when there is no traffic.

How fast does this need to be done? Is it OK to put some miles on the car before doing this? The stoptech manual doesn't really say and I didn't find anything on my searches.

Bedding is done for a couple of reasons:

- to transfer some of the pad material to the rotor to have a mating surface that optimizes friction.

- to heat up the pads so that any gases that might have been trapped while the pad was manufactured can escape.

I'm not sure which pads you are running on your car, but most pads that I've used in the past like Carbotech XP10/XP8's do not really require multiple 80-0mph stops, instead I do about 15-20 back to back 45-5 or even 50-5 stops in a row until the rotors/pads have heated up and pad material transfer takes place.

I don't recommend trying to bed the pads in the highway, that is just asking for trouble.

Find an industrial/commercial/office complex area that has reasonable speed limits (35-45mph) and try to find a loop that allows you to drive around without hitting the brakes while making a bunch of right hand turns. Once you scope out the area go back in the evening when there is very little to zero traffic and start doing short acceleration runs to 45-50mph and brake hard until ABS is invoked, repeat the steps about 20 times and then drive around without using the brakes to allow the rotors/pads to cool down so that no extraneous pad transfer happens (5-7 minutes should do). Then drive back home and park the car overnight. You might need to repeat the bedding process if the pads and rotors are new.

Once your rotors are bedded you can always switch up to pads that are compatible without having to bed the rotors again.

For example I only bed my rotors with Carbotech XP10, but I am able to use pre-bedded XP12 since the pad compound between the 2 are compatible. I just need to make sure to order the pre-bedded pad from the manufacturer.

As far as to when to do it, that is up to you.

As long as the pads are not race pads with crazy operating temperatures like 600-1600F the pads should have plenty of bite for street use. Since the rotors don't have the transfer layer, most of the braking is just either adding a tiny amounts of pad material little by little or just wearing out the rotors without any real pad transfer happening.

 

[ryneen]

Bedding is done for a couple of reasons:

- to transfer some of the pad material to the rotor to have a mating surface that optimizes friction.

- to heat up the pads so that any gases that might have been trapped while the pad was manufactured can escape.

I'm not sure which pads you are running on your car, but most pads that I've used in the past like Carbotech XP10/XP8's do not really require multiple 80-0mph stops, instead I do about 15-20 back to back 45-5 or even 50-5 stops in a row until the rotors/pads have heated up and pad material transfer takes place.

I don't recommend trying to bed the pads in the highway, that is just asking for trouble.

Find an industrial/commercial/office complex area that has reasonable speed limits (35-45mph) and try to find a loop that allows you to drive around without hitting the brakes while making a bunch of right hand turns. Once you scope out the area go back in the evening when there is very little to zero traffic and start doing short acceleration runs to 45-50mph and brake hard until ABS is invoked, repeat the steps about 20 times and then drive around without using the brakes to allow the rotors/pads to cool down so that no extraneous pad transfer happens (5-7 minutes should do). Then drive back home and park the car overnight. You might need to repeat the bedding process if the pads and rotors are new.

Once your rotors are bedded you can always switch up to pads that are compatible without having to bed the rotors again.

For example I only bed my rotors with Carbotech XP10, but I am able to use pre-bedded XP12 since the pad compound between the 2 are compatible. I just need to make sure to order the pre-bedded pad from the manufacturer.

As far as to when to do it, that is up to you.

As long as the pads are not race pads with crazy operating temperatures like 600-1600F the pads should have plenty of bite for street use. Since the rotors don't have the transfer layer, most of the braking is just either adding a tiny amounts of pad material little by little or just wearing out the rotors without any real pad transfer happening.

Good answer!

 

[TURBO2GO]

What pads? Street pads, not a big deal.

sent from my crappy cell phone.

Whatever pads come with the stoptech kit, I don't really know. What do these come with?

I was using xp8 and xp10 on my car with my stock brakes. The dust was killing me but I liked the track grip. Do I need to switch the pads to a different compound with the stoptech kit? Right now I am enjoying the rather dust-free pads. With the carbotechs I literally had to clean the wheels after going down the block. My wheels were constant gunmetal by default.

So are you guys saying bedding can be done anytime if you are using street type pads? Or am I not understanding correctly. What happens if you do the bedding process after say 2k miles?

 

[Hapa88]

I just had my stoptechs put on and I did a search here and found the bedding proceedure is rather drastic, 10 hard stops from 80 MPH in a row followed by a cool down and 10 more.

This sounds pretty drastic and definitely sounds like a race/track style pad bedding procedure..not a street pad.

 

[1K2GO]

To prevent rotor warp, you should do at least a couple of 60 to 5/10mph in succession. Before you track your car you need to do ten to twelve 60 to 5/10mph in succession, then let them cool to ambient temp and repeat. The most important issue is to haul it down at 9/10s, just before lock-up or ABS engagement each time. It is also important not to come to a complete stop or lock up the brakes at any time during this procedure. You'll know your on the right track when they start getting stinky and develop a nice blueish glaze on the rotors.

I did mine on a one mile+ hill and was able to get 7 to 8 intervals in before the bottom. By the time I was finished, I felt like I'd just been doing high-g combat maneuvers in an F-16.

 

[TURBO2GO]

So bedding is good to do before a track event everytime on a street driven car?

 

[1K2GO]

So bedding is good to do before a track event everytime on a street driven car?

This procedure only needs to be done once to bed the rotors & pads. NOT everytime, just once and you're good to go.

 

[docjohn]

please ask your vendor what pads,it won't hurt to bed them,and to answer your question yes you can drive around and still use the brakes for the road before you do.I'm assuming the rotors and pads are both new.If the rotors are older and have other pad compounds embedded you may get some issues during your first track day.I have bedded new pads /rotors driving to various tracks letting them cool back to ambient and had no issues.

 

[Hapa88]

This sounds pretty drastic and definitely sounds like a race/track style pad bedding procedure..not a street pad.

According to the Stoptech website the bed-in procedure for "Club Race" or "Full Race Pads" require the 80mph to 10mph stops. The street pads only require the 60mph runs.

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-s...finitions-and-procedures/big-brake-kit-bed-in

I'd double check to see what pads you have and bed-in appropriately.

If you have the full race pads, I would get a second set of Street pads to drive on daily because the race pads are meant to operate at hotter temps, brake poorer at colder temps, are much harsher on your rotors, dust more, and generally are louder than a steet pad...

 

[UnhuZ]

Hi,

I used the Stoptech procedure with my Project Mu Level 900 pads on RB 2 piece rotors... 3 series of 10 hard stops from 80 to 6 mph.... in between each series i drove at about 80mph for 5m to let them cool....

i used a highway at about 2am and it was desert..i don't remember seeing any other car.

This setup is awesome and i don't think i will ever need anything more powerfull (if there is one)


Thanks,
Nuno

 

[TURBO2GO]

If the pads and rotors are both new, shouldn't they technically "bed" over time anyway without this heat/cool proceedure? I mean if you have street driven the car for 2000 miles, wouldn't they bed?

It seems that bedding is necessary when you use new pads and old rotors. Or new rotors and old pads. Is this an incorrect assumption?

 

[UnhuZ]

^Yeap... Incorrect asumption

Bed in is necessary to transfer pad material do rotor, if any of them or both are new, there was no transfer, so you need to bed in.

am i right Ken, Captain?

Nuno

 

[TURBO2GO]

^Yeap... Incorrect asumption

Bed in is necessary to transfer pad material do rotor, if any of them or both are new, there was no transfer, so you need to bed in.

am i right Ken, Captain?

Nuno

I thought built-up pad material on the rotor is what created the sensation of a "warped rotor"...

 

[Hrant]

As was noted before, part of the bedding is transferring pad materials unto the rotor for compatibility of surfaces and the other half of the equation is to let trapped gases out of the pad. At higher pad operating temps (hence the need to do repetitive braking/bedding per the pad manufacturer's recommended speed since they vary) both of these concerns would be more efficiently done.

 

[CL65 Captain]

^Yeap... Incorrect asumption

Bed in is necessary to transfer pad material do rotor, if any of them or both are new, there was no transfer, so you need to bed in.

am i right Ken, Captain?

Nuno

Not with street pads. Because their temp rating is relatively low the process of "bedding in" occurs through normal street driving. The pad material gets transferred to the rotor. They do not require high temperatures for this to take place.

Track pads or pads with higher temp ratings require getting the pads and rotors up to a high enough temperature for the the transfer to take place. Thus the repeated stops from high speed - ie get them hot enough to transfer the pad material.

It's not going to hurt to bed in EVERY pad but normal street pads will do it through normal driving. That's why people can take their car to the dealer and get brand new spanking pads and rotors and everything ends up just fine. Yes, for the first few stops you have pads against virgin rotors but street pads aren't abrasive enough to cause any problems or damage. After a few stops the transfer starts to occur and continues during the course of normal driving.

 

[CL65 Captain]

I thought built-up pad material on the rotor is what created the sensation of a "warped rotor"...

UNEVEN pad build-up. Just read this....

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths

Bedding in pads will never hurt anything and can only be a plus. In "theory" even street pads benefit. The reality is that street pads do just fine via normal driving bedding in the pad material on it's own. Track pads and "aggressive street pads" SHOULD be bedded in correctly because they don't get up to temp during everyday stop and go.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

I had religously bed-in pads per manufacturer recommendations when I had my oem calipers. It works great, however, as I graduated myself to more aggressive pads, I found that often time my "street prep" work is not adequate and I sometime experienced 'green fade' after I had couple sessions at the track.

when i put my XP10 pads in the stoptechs 4 wheels bbk; with my quite loud exhaust and the massive braking force the Stoptech provides; I had never find any right road that allows me doing the bed in. I'm either waking up some locals and worried they will be calling the cops, or I will cause some serious rear end accidents on hwy. I finally find an oppotunity to get to do 5 stops, the rotor is so luke warm that I could touch it by my finger. aka, they never got hot enough.

So I did it at the track and worked the bed-in in first session per instruction. Brakes felt fine suprisingly and I didn't have the "oh oh" moment of gettting green fade either.

IMO, if you don't mind tossing your first session of the track day away, it's a safer environment anyway. Just make sure you don't drag your brakes on street driving whenever you hit the brakes before bed in.

BTW, I had never seen any good brake pads worth of track duty doesn't dust. There is some pad that hardly dust providing good initial bite, however not withstanding the repeated beating lap after lap. Someone please chime in the reason!!

 

[CL65 Captain]

BTW, I had never seen any good brake pads worth of track duty doesn't dust. There is some pad that hardly dust providing good initial bite, however not withstanding the repeated beating lap after lap. Someone please chime in the reason!!

No idea, but I'm going to take a shot. If the material didn't dust as it was rubbing (ie come apart easy) then it would be very abrasive and grind your rotors down very, very quickly. I think the key for pad manufacturers is a compromise of the greatest amount of friction with the softest material. Too soft and it doesn't slow and too hard and it grinds the rotors. <---- overly simplistic as you also have heat/fade, modulation, longevity, etc, etc.

 

[CL65 Captain]

I was wrong. According to EBC the dust is actually rotor material NOT pad material.

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive_product_news/brakes_dust.shtml

But then again, I hate EBC as the one time I used EBC yellows it chewed the hell out of my RB slotted rotors in one track weekend. Had to junk the rotors and swore I would never buy EBC anything again.

From Tirerack FAQ:

What causes brake dust?

Brake pad compounds are produced by compressing multiple components utilizing high pressures and heat to form the pad shape. These components can include carbon, steel wool, copper fibers, aramid (Kevlar) fibers, along with ceramic and/or petroleum hydrocarbon adhesives/binders.

As the pads get hot, the heat and friction cause the metallic particles in the dust to statically charge as they are worn off the pad surface and that’s what makes them stick to the surface of the wheels and other parts of the vehicle. The petroleum hydrocarbon binders also break down releasing an oily, greasy film that clings to the wheels and other components of the car. This is typically more noticeable on the front wheels since the front brakes normally do a higher percentage of the work compared to the rear.

The brake rotors are produced from cast iron. As they wear down, the iron particles wearing off of the rotor and drum surfaces also tend to statically charge and stick on surfaces. In extreme conditions, the hot iron particles can imbed and fuse in the clear coat surface of the wheels. When exposed to moisture, these iron particles will oxidize and the result is rust stains on the wheel surface.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Just make sure you don't drag your brakes on street driving whenever you hit the brakes before bed in.

Why?

when i put my XP10 pads in the stoptechs 4 wheels bbk;

Do the stock pads fit in the Stoptechs? I really haven't looked or checked anything on the stoptechs yet. I have no idea what I have in there for pads, what they look like, etc.

I love the XP8/10 but I cannot take the dusting anymore. Or the squealing. I prefer to just swap pads for the track. But the question is... at my level with the stoptechs does it even matter? If you are saying after repeated stops with the ST your rotors are still luke warm, does it matter if I have a high heat pad in there at the track?

 

[TURBO2GO]

I was wrong. According to EBC the dust is actually rotor material NOT pad material.

LOL... they forgot to say "if you are using our pads"... "yeah that's your rotor we are pulverizing for you"...

I love these learning threads. Appreciate everyone chiming in.

 

[docjohn]

not a good idea to switch pads with the same rotors..I tried that for 2 seasons and had too much shudder at the track....I now use a combo street/track pad as a compromise and it works good enough for me....ferodo ds 2500 front-brembo... xp-8 rear on the oem calipers.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

nope . oem size pads doesn't fit stoptech. sorry for the confusion.

I beleived i did mention in other thread: Stoptech BBK and XP10 were something i had never experienced before, especially with R compound. I had not adjust my six point for years. The second session I was extremely uncomfortable at my lower region as I go down Turn 2 (usually doing 135-70 at max braking) I found out later my lap belt was off 1/2 inch at most.

another clarification, I was just prasing how nice the BBK is comparing to say, Oem caliper with stoptech aero rotors that i had before, at my attempt of bedding the brakes in streets.

yes or no to your last question: like most suggested, found out what kind of pads stoptech sending you with the bbk, I suspect it's their new stoptech brand which is considered as street pads. But then, like your other thread with the tires; You will not going to kill any parts of your car, you may run a slower lap time, but I'm sure you have a lot more to learn than relying on the best parts you can throw to the car. Just try these pads out and you will know if the pad is not enough for you.