BBSC runs 1/4 at NOPI Drag Wars

[TampaBayNSX-R]

I finally had an opportunity to run my car in the 1/4 mile today. After owning the car for almost three years, it was about time!

My car is a '94 with 56,xxx miles, 6speed with 4.55, CT powergrip clutch with lightweight flywheel, CT headers and Phase exhaust(no cats) and the BBSC with the standard 6lb setup. The most recent dyno was 382rwhp and 259 torque. I'm running 18x10 HRE's with 285/30/18 Bridgestone SO-3s that were set at 20psi for the run.

I was only able to make one pass so I really tried to make the most of it. I launched the car at 3,000rpms which bogged slightly then spun the tires moderately in first then got a little out of shape at the 1-2 shift with wheelspin but not enough to lift. The rest of the run was clean except that I saw myself fast approaching redline in 4th and the cones for the speed traps were still about 50-60 feet away which forced me to grab 5th gear. I figure the extra shift had to cost me a little time and speed so I hope to get some more passes run soon to see if I can actually get through the lights without hitting the rev limiter in 4th.

I had a 1.985 60' time, 12.497et, and 112.50 trap speed.

The et is about what I expected but I thought the trap speed would have been around 115mph. It was VERY humid so that might have played a role. All in all I'm satisfied with the results. Hope you find this info useful.

 

[TheSwishh]

Thanks for posting Tampa!

I have been curious for a while now. The numbers seem very good for 6psi!

Why only one run?

-Swish

 

[sjs]

Nice job for a single run! Your trap speed is almost identical to the one discussed here: http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum22/HTML/000063.html

His was 112.54 but he was also running a 50 shot giving him a much fatter torque curve, which is at least as important as peak HP. Your numbers are very close to what a drag simulator predicts, which increases the mystery around his numbers. Your 4-5 shift also supports my assertion that he has a 455 but just doesn’t know it. That extra shift is definitely costing you, but I don’t think you can avoid it on a good clean run. I gather that drags aren’t your top priority anyway, but it would be interesting to try a slightly taller set of rear tires to get the gearing up so you can finish if 4th. Of course that costs you a bit in all the gears but eh net should be an improvement. Too bad there aren’t lots of gear options available or you could just install a slightly taller 4th and get the best of both worlds.


[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 08 September 2002).]

 

[jackmac]

Tampa,
Is this your first time at the track? If so, your times are very impressive.
JACK

 

[beckertb]

Tampa,

Very nice job my Friend. Your 60' time is most impressive with the SO3's. I look forward to seeing you this weekend for some Ben-Scott turbo vs super Southern Drag Wars ;-) Oh yeah, I almost forgot......your trap speed is down due to that big non-functional wing.....HA!!!!!

[This message has been edited by beckertb (edited 08 September 2002).]

 

[TampaBayNSX-R]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Yes, this is the first time I've run the car in the quarter mile. My fun time has always been spent on road courses.

The reason for only getting one pass done is that the NOPI event was filled with all sorts of different pro qualifying, NOPI chick, Turbo 6 yada yada yada classes and I was running in the open class. We arrived at 4pm and didn't make the pass until 8:30. By that time my family was ready to head for dinner and I was too. I hope to head back for some more reps soon and see if I can get a little more out of the car.

Yes, I know my big non-functional rear wing cost me some trap speed...but it just looks so good! If I could have charged a dollar for every picture that was taken of the car while we were there I could buy some drag specific wheels and tires for the rear of the car!

[This message has been edited by TampaBayNSX-R (edited 08 September 2002).]

[This message has been edited by TampaBayNSX-R (edited 08 September 2002).]

 

[ak]

Excellent run. I think this settles pretty much all the 1/4 mile debate on BBSC.

Car looks very nice btw. Very classy.

 

[true]

Originally posted by TampaBayNSX-R:
I finally had an opportunity to run my car in the 1/4 mile today. After owning the car for almost three years, it was about time!

My car is a '94 with 56,xxx miles, 6speed with 4.55, CT powergrip clutch with lightweight flywheel, CT headers and Phase exhaust(no cats) and the BBSC with the standard 6lb setup. The most recent dyno was 382rwhp and 259 torque. I'm running 18x10 HRE's with 285/30/18 Bridgestone SO-3s that were set at 20psi for the run.

I was only able to make one pass so I really tried to make the most of it. I launched the car at 3,000rpms which bogged slightly then spun the tires moderately in first then got a little out of shape at the 1-2 shift with wheelspin but not enough to lift. The rest of the run was clean except that I saw myself fast approaching redline in 4th and the cones for the speed traps were still about 50-60 feet away which forced me to grab 5th gear. I figure the extra shift had to cost me a little time and speed so I hope to get some more passes run soon to see if I can actually get through the lights without hitting the rev limiter in 4th.

I had a 1.985 60' time, 12.497et, and 112.50 trap speed.

The et is about what I expected but I thought the trap speed would have been around 115mph. It was VERY humid so that might have played a role. All in all I'm satisfied with the results. Hope you find this info useful.

Nice run! 1.985 60ft is great for street tires, especially on 18's. If that was your first/only run, your times should only improve from there.


[This message has been edited by true (edited 08 September 2002).]

 

[Number9]

Originally posted by ak:
Excellent run. I think this settles pretty much all the 1/4 mile debate on BBSC.

I don't know what debate this data is supposed to settle, but it does add a few data points to the chart posted earlier on this forum - it puts the BBSC just ahead of a well driven coupe with slicks and just behind the 3.0L CTSC (don't know if this is with or without slicks):

Norm Aspirated - dswartz - 12.53 - 111.45 - 8.08 - 88.39 - 1.86
NOS - 4g62bt2c30a - 12.53 - 117 - x - x - 2.20
NOS - NosNsx - 12.2 - 113 - x - x - x
Supercharged - Attitude Adjuster - 12.37 - 114.12 - 8.05 - 89.90 - 1.98
Turbocharged - Gerry - 11.94 - 125.2 - 7.952 - 95.4 - 2.162
Outright Fastest - nsxlr8 - 11.60 - 120.00 - x - x - 1.75

 

[ak]

The debate I'm referring to is the questions people had about BBSC 1/4 mile time. I guess I should have said "questions".

 

[McAttack]

GREAT times Tampa! It's taken me what seems like forever to get to 12.79! I feel your pain on waiting all that time for just one run. MAN that's pressure to make it count!

I have 285/30/18 SO3's on my prodrive 9.5's as well and also did a 1.9 60' and 112.5 trap speed. You, however, got me by 3/10ths on the ET with just the one run no less.

There's been some suspicion I purchased a car w/4:55's on it. You really have me thinking now. This helped a lot. Thanks for posting.

 

[smoore]

scott,

good run to bad i had to leave early ;-( and didn't get to see you run

i keep meaning to run my car seen as i now have light wieght wheels no cats and a bottle heater i think it would be a good run but my clutch is deffently on its way out oh well if you want to get alot of runs supposidly tuesday is the best day and you get many runs for like $10-

can't wait for the cooler weather

p.s. with times like this i'm surprised there are not more nsx's in the 11's imagine if you put a 50 shot on too........

 

[4AU4LIFE]

Nice run Tampa. I wanted to drive down there but I couldn't. My car is currently already there getting an audio/video system installed. Were there any other NSX's?


------------------
ALL NSX
92 RED/BLACK 5-SPEED

 

[BadCarma]

scott, wished i had stuck around to see it.but we got there so early and like you said it was humid as hell.so it did effect your run.speaking of your run..that was a hella of a great run for your first time?and they are right about the wing.next time leave it on for all the photo shots and remove it for your run,we saw lots of cars run with only their wings mounting bracket for that reason.it is an air break.removing just for 1/4 running will knock .3 of your time maybe .2 but thats alot.but that was a great run indeed.overall aside for seeing lisa kubo run(she rocks)the day time portion of the show wasnt that great mostly due to the heat.also did you wait for the green or begin your launch just after the last yellow.thats another .3 when taking into account reaction time that puts you off the line just as the light goes green..the tree comes down in .5 increments .every car i saw employ this tactic won there run.i think your car with getting your whole shot down and removing the wing just for the run will net you a half a second and that puts you down to a very low 12 maybe high 11.8 11.9 and thats with your current tires.put some nitto 555r on the back and i WOULD be very interested to see what it runs.I think you would suprise alot of people
david

 

[TampaBayNSX-R]

Thanks for the supportive words guys. I agree that the drag from the wing probably cost me a 1/10th or so...it would be interesting to see what the car would do with the wing removed, no tool kit, a couple gallons of fuel instead of half a tank and some drag slicks.
Dave-the reaction time is critical in heads up racing and many times is the single determining factor as to who gets the win light. However, it has absolutely no bearing on the et a car runs when making a pass. The clock doesn't start running until your front tire leaves the beam at the starting line. As a matter of fact, I saw several of the pro cars waiting a good two seconds after the green came on to launch their cars during qualifying on Saturday. They have nothing to gain by cutting a close light but could have had their times dq'd if they had red lighted. I think with an aftercooler, weight saving measures, no wing and some slicks the car has a chance of running an 11.99 which would be pretty cool. If I find myself having fun at the drags I just might set out to make that happen.

 

[BadCarma]

gerry johnson indicated the same thing and you are both right.I was am tired when i posted that and was thinking in terms of heads up.I do relize until you breakthe beam you can sit forever and still post a solid run..unless of course as you stated you are running against someone then the hole shot IS critical.wished id seen that run.oh well its open every thur night for test and tune.sounds like a good idea for a group drive down. and going heads up against each other some night.I know stu would be up for that
dave

 

[CapeCodMass]

I have a 91 with 74,xxx miles a comptech exaust and a 50 dry NOS shot (at the time it was dry, now wet). Stock gears, stock clutch, stock flywheel, and crappy Kuhmo tires. I have run consistent 13.1's with a 2.1 60' (ref. Kuhmo street tires) and trapped at 110.

My best, of 6 passes total is 12.92. Am I missing something? I am contemplating a turbo set up that I thought would surely put me in the very low 12's or even high 11's (I thought). I figure a SC would get me there as well.

Am I just beating the hell out of my car (speed shifting, sidesteppin clutch at 4,000, and juicing it from 2,500 rpm to just before shift)? Or, is it possible I have something more I am unaware of - since I bought this used - Aside frm a K&N cone filter I am pretty sure all else is stock.

Your thoughts?

 

[smoore]

Originally posted by CapeCodMass:
I have a 91 with 74,xxx miles a comptech exaust and a 50 dry NOS shot (at the time it was dry, now wet). Stock gears, stock clutch, stock flywheel, and crappy Kuhmo tires. I have run consistent 13.1's with a 2.1 60' (ref. Kuhmo street tires) and trapped at 110.

My best, of 6 passes total is 12.92. Am I missing something? I am contemplating a turbo set up that I thought would surely put me in the very low 12's or even high 11's (I thought). I figure a SC would get me there as well.

Am I just beating the hell out of my car (speed shifting, sidesteppin clutch at 4,000, and juicing it from 2,500 rpm to just before shift)? Or, is it possible I have something more I am unaware of - since I bought this used - Aside frm a K&N cone filter I am pretty sure all else is stock.

Your thoughts?

keep in mind you had six passes and scott only has 1 and it had to be 110 degrees at the track and going from a high 12/low13 to a mid 12/low 12 is alot hard to do than one may think...

wait till winter time then we can see some solid figures with the bbsc

 

[sjs]

OK, I’m a dunce. Last night I realized that I made a really dumb mistake with the simulator.

I was using RWHP figures as quoted by people rather than grossing it up for approximate crank HP. I’ll try to rerun them this evening but that will only further support that McAttack is missing something.

 

[TampaBayNSX-R]

sjs,
While you're playing with that simulator, would you mind doing some number crunching for me? I'd like to know how much hp I would need to put my car into the 11's. Assume that the gross weight of the car+driver is 3200lbs using a 285/30/18 SO-3 and 6speed with 4.55's. Thanks in advance.

 

[nsx1164]

Originally posted by TampaBayNSX-R:
I had a 1.985 60' time, 12.497et, and 112.50 trap speed.

Nice run Scott... I think this is pretty good for a 6# boost unit. The few CTSC runs that better this IIRC had the high-boost kit and possibly slicks.

With slicks and the high-boost kit, and emptying your trunk/gas tank (I take it you were already starving), you should get into the low 12s...

Not sure if you can get into 11s without NOS, or REALLY high boost (the kind that requires some engine reinforcements).

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by TampaBayNSX-R:
sjs,
While you're playing with that simulator, would you mind doing some number crunching for me? I'd like to know how much hp I would need to put my car into the 11's. Assume that the gross weight of the car+driver is 3200lbs using a 285/30/18 SO-3 and 6speed with 4.55's. Thanks in advance.

Getting into 11s: Keep in mind that unlike trap speed, ET varies a great deal with driver technique, and that range of variation rises as lb/HP falls. A car that can dip into 11s requires a lot more skill to hit 100% potential than one in the 13s.

That said, I picked some nice round numbers of 500 HP @ 8k and 400 ft lb @ 5k (at the crank) with a typical SC curve. Using a 3k dump yields 11.85 @ 122.44. A 3k launch with some clutch slip but the same shift points yields a lousy 12.52 @ 121.43. Notice how the trap speed only drops 1 MPH while the ET really suffers. Similarly, a slight bog on the launch as you described at the top of this thread will cost lots of time but little MPH.

You can tweak the variable endlessly and get a range of results, but this gives you an idea of what it takes to hit 11s.

 

[Attitude Adjuster]

Originally posted by Number9:
I don't know what debate this data is supposed to settle, but it does add a few data points to the chart posted earlier on this forum - it puts the BBSC just ahead of a well driven coupe with slicks and just behind the 3.0L CTSC (don't know if this is with or without slicks):

Norm Aspirated - dswartz - 12.53 - 111.45 - 8.08 - 88.39 - 1.86
NOS - 4g62bt2c30a - 12.53 - 117 - x - x - 2.20
NOS - NosNsx - 12.2 - 113 - x - x - x
Supercharged - Attitude Adjuster - 12.37 - 114.12 - 8.05 - 89.90 - 1.98
Turbocharged - Gerry - 11.94 - 125.2 - 7.952 - 95.4 - 2.162
Outright Fastest - nsxlr8 - 11.60 - 120.00 - x - x - 1.75

This run was done on some cheap Nittos 225 50 16s. My car was all stock except for the Dali clutch and supercharger. This time was also backed up.

------------------
Kenji Ligon
91 Red CTSC NSX

[This message has been edited by Attitude Adjuster (edited 09 September 2002).]

 

[sjs]

I let the simulator hunt for optimum launch technique on the 500/400 model that did 11.85 @ 122.44 with a 3k dump launch. It came up with a relatively low 1400 RPM launch point, again using the dump method and yielded 11.71 @ 122.08. I tried the same process for the McAttack car and got a dump launch of 1300 which yielded 12.08 @ 118.04 compared to 12.19 @ 118.25 from 3k. Somebody what to burn a run to see if such a low launch works?

 

[Lud]

Does this software recognize forced induction? Those launch points might make sense for a NA car or one putting down a lot of power down low, but such a low launch point is going to bog on that cars we are discussing.