Are 02's and up worth the extra money

[awsomr1]

[B
Whoever buys a new 90k NSX, i'll buy them a Louis XIII cognac...

['Werd' image/smiley supposed to be imposed here, but I can't attach the same image again ] [/B]

Just got my 04 back in Feb. 04.

Please send me my Louis XIII

Thanks you

 

[paulviriyapan]

OK guys since we have some honest to goodness S2000 owners here, I gotta ask you guys a question to see whether it is true or the rumor mill. It has been said that the S2000 can pull numbers on 0-60 and 1/4 near the NSX. However to do so, you have to drop the clutch from high rpm, and after you do this three times, on the fourth hard launch, you have to replace the clutch. Is this true?

 

[mlambert890]

Its interesting because I recently bought out my leased 03 and the total end price ended up being about $83k (plus tax), which I thought was a decent deal.

The thing is though, you have to REALLY love the NSX. If you dont really love it, walk away from it.

Objective measures arent going to work - especially if they're overly simplified.

So for the $83k I spent, I certianly could have bought more speed with a Viper, more value with a Z06 (and saved a boatload of cash) and more "cachet" with a Porsche, but I didnt.

To me, if you are even capable of objectively comparing a 350Z and a used NSX, then you should not get the NSX.

 

[WingZ]

Dang spooky you love that X

You dropped $83k on it Your my new Hero!

 

[mlambert890]

There are a few owners who bought new recently floating around... Most paid $78k-$88k.

It's definitely not for everyone though. Even at $78k (which I didnt see anywhere on the 03's during 03), the NSX is still a tough purchase. It really is high time that Honda did a major upgrade.

The Viper is too hard to live with for me and the Porsche seems like an even worse value since (by the time I add a few options) the Carrera 2 gets even MORE expensive than the NSX and there are Carrera 2's on every corner here. The Lotus was really, really tempting.

Part of why I bought out the lease was to eliminate the payment and have the flexibility to be able to switch out the car if I want to. I may or may not sell this summer...

 

[WingZ]

You would sell????????

Dare I ask what you would get?

Also wouldn't you lose quite a bit getting rid of the X so soon? None of my business ,but as my new hero I want to see your strategy before I buy one these cars.

 

[EssTooKayTD]

OK guys since we have some honest to goodness S2000 owners here, I gotta ask you guys a question to see whether it is true or the rumor mill. It has been said that the S2000 can pull numbers on 0-60 and 1/4 near the NSX. However to do so, you have to drop the clutch from high rpm, and after you do this three times, on the fourth hard launch, you have to replace the clutch. Is this true?

Sorry haven't checked this thread in a bit.

"mag numbers"
S2000 can get about 5.3 sec in 0-60 or so. Yes, you must rev up to around 6000 rpms, and drop the clutch. It's not horrible, but you can damage the car. You drop it too low all that energy/force is sent through the drivetrain, baaaad. drop it just right around 6K, the energy still goes through, but much of it is delivered to the ground in a small spin and take off. Rev too high, and you'll be spinning too much i believe. the 1/4 mile is around 14 secs flat and I believe some have broken into the 13's. I assume this is by dropping the clutch.

On my first clutch I dropped it a number of times...more than 5 times, less than 10. Clutch felt fine to me. Havne't done it since on my 2nd clutch.

Hope that helps some.

 

[WingZ]

Thanks for take off info.

Hey if you want to keep your back end from breaking loose all the time around corners switch to the 04 rear sway bar. I did that as well as put on the 17 MY04 wheels and have no back end prob's at all even at the track. Only like a $100 bucks best bang for buck mod on the 00-03 models

 

[Osiris_x11]

big-check. . .

Just got my 04 back in Feb. 04.

Please send me my Louis XIII

Thanks you

hmmm, did you actually spend 90k??? I was alluding to that there is some "margin" off the MSRP that people usually get when purchasing a new NSX.

 

[nsxchi-town]

It's engine and transmission are superior to the S2000. The S2000 makes no power below 6000RPM, even with forced induction. With the Comptech supercharger, aftercooler and a 7.3psi pulley, my S2000 still has far less usable power than the NSX. Ryan

I have to disagree, I have a Comptech SC, Aftercooler on my s2000 has more power then my stock nsx(i have a 98-T).

[B
Speaking from experience, they're totally different cars. Ratings and stats don't convey the difference behind the wheel of the car. Even prior to having our NSX supercharged, it still "felt" faster and more stable than our S2000 with its SC/AC/JICs/etc.Ryan [/B]

I do agree that they are totally diferent, but my S is faster then my NSX.(atleast till i start modding it )

I got the NSX in Jan. 04 and only put 1500miles on it(all fun miles ) and have 32k on the s2k just for me the s2k is more fun to drive. I love quickness of my SCs2k and don't mine if i leave it in a parking lot or get a ding or two. Maybe thats one reason I like driving my s2k more, but i like have my NSX more.I wash it more, wax it more and take care of it more then any car i have own.(past 5 months) It just hard to explain. eveyone that has a NSX should own or drive a SC S2k, same for SCS2k owners should go and drive a nsx or even buy one.

 

[Non-Linear]

Wow, my first post after a year of unregistered lurking.

I am getting a red / onyx 04 in August. After sufficient email negotiation, I am not pay anywhere close to 90k. The price is close to invoice.

Should I expect a Louis XIII in the mail?

 

[WingZ]

Thanks NSXCHI-Town. I felt both are similar from what I've read and that the NSX performance is not far off from the S2K , but did not wish to offend anyone as I do my research and ask people who own the car.

 

[tomSS2000]

Okay... working backwards here... but I used to own a '97 nsx-t and now have an 02 CTSC s2k. I totally agree with nsxchi-town. Obviously both are very fun cars to own/drive... but a Supercharged S2K is equal, if not faster than a stock NSX.

RyanITV: you were a well respected member of the ski.com forums, your car is one of the best S2K around (sad to see you leave). BUT, I am surprised to see you give the S such low marks vs. a stock X??? Unless a stock 04 NSX is significantly faster then the '97 NSXs... I don't see any advantage for the NSX?

 

[RyanITV]

Okay... working backwards here... but I used to own a '97 nsx-t and now have an 02 CTSC s2k. I totally agree with nsxchi-town. Obviously both are very fun cars to own/drive... but a Supercharged S2K is equal, if not faster than a stock NSX.

RyanITV: you were a well respected member of the ski.com forums, your car is one of the best S2K around (sad to see you leave). BUT, I am surprised to see you give the S such low marks vs. a stock X??? Unless a stock 04 NSX is significantly faster then the '97 NSXs... I don't see any advantage for the NSX?

It all depends on how you look at it. Straight-line performance, shifting at redline, a CTSC S2000 would probably out-accelerate a stock 97+ NSX. That's one of the reasons we were so quick to get the CTSC on our '04. However, in everyday driving (ie, shifting the S2000 below 6000RPM), the NSX has far more usable power.

Just using the dyno sheets posted on Comptech's site, at 6000RPM a SC'd S2000 has 170hp. At the same RPM, a stock NSX puts down 240hp - that's a considerable difference. That's why, during spirited driving, I say the NSX feels faster.

The stuff hits the fan when you even things up with the same mods on the NSX... the NSX then puts down 311hp at 6000RPM... a huge increase, enough so that it easily pulls away from the S2000.

I'm not saying that the S2000 isn't quick, mind you - the original question revolved around the value of the NSX and if it was worth the price tag to get an '02 and up. I just said the S2000 feels like a tank compared to the NSX. It's not as responsive, it's more cramped, noisier and as I do the bulk of my driving well below redline (as most people do), the power curve on the NSX suits me better.

eveyone that has a NSX should own or drive a SC S2k

I agree - come on guys, buy mine!



Ryan

 

[mlambert890]

You would sell????????

Dare I ask what you would get?

Also wouldn't you lose quite a bit getting rid of the X so soon? None of my business ,but as my new hero I want to see your strategy before I buy one these cars.

What I would get is the quandry I'm facing now. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure what I want to do yet. There is a chance I would get something boring and be responsible, but I've always considered my second car a toy and I'm still trying to sort out what I really want to accomplish.

I would definitely take a hit selling it, but that comes with the territory. NY dealers don't seem to sell extreme luxury items at invoice (or at least they never have to me) and I don't like buying 5 figure items from people thousands of miles away through a middle-man, so I usually end up paying on the high side on new cars. This inevitably means a hit when I turn it over. Unless I can somehow develop better car dealer negotiation skills, or get over my reluctance to deal with far out of state dealers, there's not much help for it.

Cars are a depreciating asset anyway though. I just try to keep losses at a cost per mile level that I'm comfortable with and not let it bother me.

 

[WingZ]

Is the NSX something you don't wish to keep for a longer period than what you currently have had it?

I ask because if I pay that much money for something I like to keep it for a long time to get my money's worth out of it. I know a car is a depreciating asset that's why I would buy a used NSX and not a new one and let someone else take the hit

 

[EssTooKayTD]

Is the NSX something you don't wish to keep for a longer period than what you currently have had it?

I ask because if I pay that much money for something I like to keep it for a long time to get my money's worth out of it. I know a car is a depreciating asset that's why I would buy a used NSX and not a new one and let someone else take the hit

although this is true, you have to remember, that the NSX really holds it's value pretty well.

 

[mlambert890]

I tend to get bored with cars and move on. I had a collection of cars I considered "dream cars" as a kid which included the Corvette, NSX, Lotus Esprit, Dodge Viper and Ferrari Testarosa. This list later expanded to include the Ferrari 355.

So now I've had the Corvette (2000 C5 coupe), two NSX's (a 98 and now the 03) and it may just be time to move on. There's also a chance I will abandon the sports car thing alltogether and get something practical as a second car. I'm not fully decided on any of this yet.

If I do sell the 03, it will have everything to do with me and my short attention span and nothing to do with the NSX. The NSX is still in a class by itself when it comes to overall package. No other sports car has the civility and usability of the NSX day to day while still being able to turn heads and put down decent numbers at the track.

I'm not going to lie though. I really do wish it had a lot more torque. Stoplight to stoplight, about 100 more hp and tq would be nice.

EDIT - caveat here... my 03 is an auto (long story), so its a real dog. The manual would be much nicer although, having been in them, I'd still be yearning for more torque. My modded Vette (also an auto) was really perfect in terms of how quick it was (very), but it just got too boring...

 

[NetViper]

Can't you put a CTSC on an Auto? I am not sure.

You could always send your auto to factor X. I am sure they could find something for you to make you grin .. (might cost a TON though)

 

[mlambert890]

Unfortunately most of the FI kits are pretty unfriendly to the auto (Factor X is really hardcore).

I've said in the past that I would put the CTSC on the auto and just replace the tranny if it ended up dieing, but I would *only* go that route if I decide to *definitely* keep the X.

One thing that sucks about moding is it makes selling the car a pain in the ass...

The other thing is that it's really hard to justify (for me) keeping the NSX and moding it vs. selling it and buying an 01 or 02 Lotus Esprit.

 

[WingZ]

Hey SpookyP you finally anwsered the question that began this thread .

So in terms of feel ( i,e anything different ) what difference between the 98 and the 03? and do you think it was worth going to the 03 now that it's all said and done.

Also why was the Corvette boring? I would never buy one ( to common in Michigan ) ,but I'm curious.

 

[stormrider]

is not fair to compare a 98 6dp with a 03 auto! apple and orange!!

 

[mlambert890]

Stormrider is right.

Of course in my case, its a 98 auto vs an 03 auto, so thats fair sort of.

To me, the 03 feels better overall (this is probably a combination of several subtle factors like tire size, minor tuning differences, etc.) and feels tighter (new car after all). The HID's are awesome.

Basically, the 02 refresh was pretty minor. It's not a significant difference over the pre-02 and, if you don't like the new look, or a new NSX is too expensive, you really arent losing much at all by going with a 97+.

The Corvette was boring because there are thousands of them everywhere and the look is too tame. It's fast, but it's not as fun to drive as the NSX (or any midengine) in my opinion. Mid engine cars just feel different.

The Viper, although front engine, is still a lot more fun since it is such a wild ride and has such massive torque.

For the record, I have driven a 99 NSX 6 spd and also an 02 6 spd and find them to be really really really similar. I'm not a super experienced manual tranny driver, though, and probably am not able to fully appreciate subtlties. Of course compared to the Viper, the NSX clutch is a dream.

Also, I have to respectfully disagree with NSX/MR2. No NSX will "absolutely smoke" a C5. At best it will come down to driver...

 

[CChung]

I had a '00 and now have a '03, both were bought new. The only differences I see, other than the obvious changes starting in '02, is that the '03 appears to be built better. My '00 had uneven gaps between body panels, loud creaks in the dashboard, a lot of orange peel in the paint and a lot of wind noise with the windows up. Power, braking and everything else pretty much feels the same.

I'm kinda like spookyp in that I get bored with cars that I have and am always thinking what would be the next best thing to get. My '03 is the third NSX that I've owned and if I sell it I know I will miss it tremendously. I got to admit I always dreamed of getting a Ferrari and that would be the most logical step up from an NSX. But the reliability and maintenance issues really scare me off. So like spookyp I really don't know what to get. I'll probably set tight for now and enjoy my '03 for now.

 

[mlambert890]

From the above post, CChung and I are in exactly the same mindset. I would definitely love a F355, but the $1/mi that F car owners tell me to expect is more than I could responsibly handle.

I definitely agree on the build quality also. It's one of those intangibles, but the 03 feels more solid somehow than any of the pre 02 NSXs I've seen first hand.