Am I in a world of trouble ?

[drew]

EDIT: Asking price is $35K. This is a clear buy and relist as an eBay auction.

Even if the car is free to you, it is probably not worth it for you to fix it up as the cost of hired labor will sink the value of the car below zero (even with a $0 purchase price). However, a DIY person might see great value in it and it would be a rational decision.

It is not unreasonable to buy the car, or agree to buy, and IMMEDIATELY put it up on eBay. You might make a few thousand out of it, there is a lot of hype on the NSX and it is quite likely you stand to make good money doing nothing other than being a middleman. You might get a couple of irrational buyers to drive the price up the moon too!

 

[hondasash]

Did I over read it or did you mention, where in Europe you are located at?
As mentioned by one of the guys before, there is a "famous" NSX specialist located in Austria,

http://www.atr-racing.com/

The guy is specialized on NSXs and its repair and has a huuuuuuuge stock of parts for this car.
Beside the low milage I personally would not buy a car not being on the road that long and still being that pricy.
Especially as it seems that the actual owner did not put much effort in servicing / holding the car in shape after putting in the garage

As mentioned by the other guys, you can easily add 15+k for fixing all issues, buying parts and for the labor - depeding on what's coming up. > all belts, all hoses, all rubbers, big engine service etc. etc. etc.
I had a bigger engine service done last year, just as I thought it's time to do so - believe me, that can be pretty expensive and my X is in a pretty good and well serviced shape


Better bying i car being in a good shape but having a higher milage on that this one, I think.

Greetings from good old Germany !

 

[Old Guy]

I can't seem to find the parts circled in my first post, could you help me out?


I agree. I guess we'll have to deal with snap ring issue once the car is actually bought and inspected.

The first link may be blocked because you are not located in North America. Here is a link to the Amayama catalog page for the NA1

Buy New & Genuine Honda NSX 1 generation, restyling 12.2001 - 12.2005 Parts from Japan - Amayama

Clicking on a link like 'Body Parts' will bring up all the diagrams for all the parts on the car. My primary complaint is this thumbnail drawings are small making it hard to figure out what exactly is in the drawing. It just makes searching a little bit more work.

I would be inclined to figure out whether the car was in the 'snap ring range' before purchasing it. I believe Honda's solution to the snap ring problem was a complete transmission replacement which would consume all of your available $10k. Complete replacement is not necessary if you have access to a skilled rebuilder; but, you are probably still looking at $2k - $4k depending on the labor costs (if you can find a qualified rebuilder). Read here for the details on the snap ring failure

Transmission - NSX-Wiki (nsxprime.com)

 

[NoobSX]

Aw, snap. I don't know the transmission serial number. I guess that's another surprise waiting for me.
Thanks all for the answers, I'll need some time to rethink everything, you'll be notified of course.

 

[Honcho]

Welcome to NSX Prime! What a great first thread! There is a lot of good advice here and I agree with it. If you look at your NSX purchase as a purely financial exercise, then this car does not make sense. Based on what you have described, it will be $10k to $15k to get this car to "OK" running condition. It will be at least another $20k to get it to "proper." With the major NSX parts price increase coming on April 1, expect these costs to go up by another 10% to 20%. Thus, at your $35k entry point, you're looking at at least another $35k, which puts you at $70k- not coincidentally about the same price as you could get a well-sorted example in Europe right now. As such, the right move financially is probably to buy a good one at $70k.

Having said this, allow me to put a different perspective out there for you to consider. It appears that the NSX is a dream for you. If that's true, then maybe the pure financial angle isn't the right way to look at it. As others have mentioned, this car might make sense if you are willing to have the car sitting in your garage for a few years. $35k for a clean, straight frame NSX in Europe is a very good entry point- probably the lowest on the continent right now. If you take the $35k+ "fixup" cost and spread it over a few years, the car becomes reachable for you. The key here is to have a realistic and well-prepared plan of action. Start with the "musts"- the thing that absolutely have to be fixed to be able to safely operate the car. This will at least get you to the point where you can drive it around, which is the best thing you can do to keep a NSX in good shape mechanically.

Next, get a copy of the factory workshop manual, electrical troubleshooting manual, and body repair manual. Find the sections that match up to your "musts" list and decide what you are comfortable attempting/learning and what you will pay someone else to do. You don't necessarily need a Honda dealer- any good mechanic you trust should be able to manage ok with the service manuals- the NSX is quite easy to work on compared to cars like BMW, Porsche, etc. A mechanic used to those brands should have no problem with a NSX.

Finally, make a priority list of the "nice to haves" from the most important thing (to you) to the least critical thing. As additional funds become available, work down that list. It may take 5 years this way, but at the end you'll have a very nice NSX.

With parts prices and car prices continuing to go up, it's only going to get more expensive to reach your dream. It might be worth considering jumping in now and putting your additional funds toward making this car great again.

 

[MJK]

It really comes down to this. Can you do the work yourself?

If the answer is “no” hard pass.

If you can fix it yourself and get the parts. There is plenty of sweat equity left in the car to make a nice ride out of. Did you check to see if it is in snap ring range? Prices listed above are paying someone who charges a ton and Mark up parts. You can shop around and find much better deals then your typical Prime vendors. Parts have a massive price fluctuations because they are rare or perceived to be rare.

For instance I found a new OEM Steering rack shipped to my house for less then half what it cost to buy new threw a vendor here or have one rebuilt by them. Do you have the patience and the skill to source and replace the parts it needs. If not do not buy it. Buy one for more that needs less.

I agree completely.

It is not a difficult car to work on if you have basic mechanical skills and a service manual. But, you need a garage and the willingness to tackle it. If you don't have both of those, move on.

 

[alcheng]

@NoobSX, I have a feeling you are attracted by the $35k price tag of this NSX and thinking it's now or never (that an NSX for this price).

However, you will most likely, eventually, have spent about $50k to $60 in total to make this NSX running probably on the road.

Besides the financial challenge, there's couple other realistic factors you need to consider:

1) To find a trustworthy and honest mechanic who knows how to restore an NSX, both mechanically and cosmetically.

2) After you bought the NSX, you will have to trailer it to the mechanic, pay him to take everything apart and find out what are the necessary parts, and it's going to be a long long list.

3) It won't be "I'll leave it in my garage and fix a bit here and there when I have the time and money", because the best way to get it done is do everything in one shot, since you have limited knowledge on automobile repair/restore, it's not wise to fix one part at a time since you are not able to drive the car to the mechanic freely.


The price tag is attractive, but you have to put all those aftermath into consideration and it will probably add up to around $60k.

Think carefully before make up your mind.


$0.02

 

[NoobSX]

With the major NSX parts price increase coming on April 1, expect these costs to go up by another 10% to 20%. Thus, at your $35k entry point, you're looking at at least another $35k, which puts you at $70k- not coincidentally about the same price as you could get a well-sorted example in Europe right now. As such, the right move financially is probably to buy a good one at $70k.

Hi. Could you elaborate more on the price increase ? What's happening?
Also, I agree, it would be wiser to just buy a good one for 70K, the problem is, I don't have 70K :greedy_dollars::glee:

Having said this, allow me to put a different perspective out there for you to consider. It appears that the NSX is a dream for you. If that's true, then maybe the pure financial angle isn't the right way to look at it. As others have mentioned, this car might make sense if you are willing to have the car sitting in your garage for a few years. $35k for a clean, straight frame NSX in Europe is a very good entry point- probably the lowest on the continent right now. If you take the $35k+ "fixup" cost and spread it over a few years, the car becomes reachable for you. The key here is to have a realistic and well-prepared plan of action. Start with the "musts"- the thing that absolutely have to be fixed to be able to safely operate the car. This will at least get you to the point where you can drive it around, which is the best thing you can do to keep a NSX in good shape mechanically.

Next, get a copy of the factory workshop manual, electrical troubleshooting manual, and body repair manual. Find the sections that match up to your "musts" list and decide what you are comfortable attempting/learning and what you will pay someone else to do. You don't necessarily need a Honda dealer- any good mechanic you trust should be able to manage ok with the service manuals- the NSX is quite easy to work on compared to cars like BMW, Porsche, etc. A mechanic used to those brands should have no problem with a NSX.

Finally, make a priority list of the "nice to haves" from the most important thing (to you) to the least critical thing. As additional funds become available, work down that list. It may take 5 years this way, but at the end you'll have a very nice NSX.

With parts prices and car prices continuing to go up, it's only going to get more expensive to reach your dream. It might be worth considering jumping in now and putting your additional funds toward making this car great again.

Now we're talking
Yes, if I buy the car, the repairs will be made by priority.
We haven't yet had a chance to thoroughly inspect it, maybe it doesn't really need a complete overhaul to get it to drivable condition.
As I previously mentioned, a list of necessary repairs will take about $3.5K + labor.
And yes, a friend's friend works at the BMW workshop, he's their best and most skilled employee there. He said basically "no problem, I can work on his NSX if he buys it", which is a big deal to me because I know it will be in good hands.
All we need is inspect the car, make a parts list and then order it. I hope the list won't be long though

I agree completely.

It is not a difficult car to work on if you have basic mechanical skills and a service manual. But, you need a garage and the willingness to tackle it. If you don't have both of those, move on.

The sad thing is, I do have a garage, but I never worked on a car further than changing oil, air filter and spark plugs.
My dad used to service his own cars at home, but I went the other direction.
90s, Commodore64, dial-up modems and PCs with DOS were my drugs.

@NoobSX, I have a feeling you are attracted by the $35k price tag of this NSX and thinking it's now or never (that an NSX for this price).

However, you will most likely, eventually, have spent about $50k to $60 in total to make this NSX running probably on the road.

Besides the financial challenge, there's couple other realistic factors you need to consider:

1) To find a trustworthy and honest mechanic who knows how to restore an NSX, both mechanically and cosmetically.

2) After you bought the NSX, you will have to trailer it to the mechanic, pay him to take everything apart and find out what are the necessary parts, and it's going to be a long long list.

3) It won't be "I'll leave it in my garage and fix a bit here and there when I have the time and money", because the best way to get it done is do everything in one shot, since you have limited knowledge on automobile repair/restore, it's not wise to fix one part at a time since you are not able to drive the car to the mechanic freely.


The price tag is attractive, but you have to put all those aftermath into consideration and it will probably add up to around $60k.

Think carefully before make up your mind.


$0.02

Hi, yes you're right.
1) That problem is solved
2) This one as well (will cost me about $150 to trailer it to the mechanic)
3) My aim is to make it at least road going, so I can leave the mechanic and take it home, then continue purchasing parts and doing the work from there.

 

[NSX_n00b]

Hi. Could you elaborate more on the price increase ? What's happening?

Honda increases the prices on parts when the costs of manufacturing them goes up. I don't recall there being an increase last year due to covid but prices usually tick up once or twice per year. This year the price increase is set to take place on April 1, 2021 and the increase factor is "rumored" to be 10%-20% on all parts and some parts even going up 200%-300% in price.

 

[Professor X]

My biggest concern will be the engine and electronics of the car. All the cosmetics can easily be fix and replaced.

 

[Honcho]

The main engine thing I would be concerned about on a car that has been sitting for this long is the water pump. Kaz has photos of similar condition pumps (garage queens that just sit for months on end) with fully rusted impellers on nearly new pumps. If the engine is otherwise ok, I'd drain the old coolant, fill with distilled water, run it for a few hours to knock loose all the scum, rust and sediment, drain the water, and then refill with fresh Honda Type II. That way, you don't have to replace the water pump right away and it might buy you a couple of years to save up for the full engine refresh. Same with the oil. Change it, run it for 200 or 300 km (ideally on a nice long highway drive), then change it again. The hot oil will clean off a lot of the surface rust that has built up inside the engine (it's an open system and exposed to humidity in the air)

Otherwise, I bet it fires right up and runs fine. The NSX is amazing that way.

 

[NoobSX]

Honda increases the prices on parts when the costs of manufacturing them goes up. I don't recall there being an increase last year due to covid but prices usually tick up once or twice per year. This year the price increase is set to take place on April 1, 2021 and the increase factor is "rumored" to be 10%-20% on all parts and some parts even going up 200%-300% in price.

Nice...just in time when I'm about to buy the car...

My biggest concern will be the engine and electronics of the car. All the cosmetics can easily be fix and replaced.

Interesting.
I think it's actually quite the opposite (engine and electronics being the last thing to fail on a Honda).

The main engine thing I would be concerned about on a car that has been sitting for this long is the water pump. Kaz has photos of similar condition pumps (garage queens that just sit for months on end) with fully rusted impellers on nearly new pumps. If the engine is otherwise ok, I'd drain the old coolant, fill with distilled water, run it for a few hours to knock loose all the scum, rust and sediment, drain the water, and then refill with fresh Honda Type II. That way, you don't have to replace the water pump right away and it might buy you a couple of years to save up for the full engine refresh. Same with the oil. Change it, run it for 200 or 300 km (ideally on a nice long highway drive), then change it again. The hot oil will clean off a lot of the surface rust that has built up inside the engine (it's an open system and exposed to humidity in the air)

Otherwise, I bet it fires right up and runs fine. The NSX is amazing that way.

Nah, I wouldn't gamble on water pump, it just wouldn't make me comfortable.
But a good system clean, yes, I agree.

 

[Big McLargeHuge]

There's plenty of NSX engines and electronics that fail, just like Honda's "reliable" auto transmissions from the past decade, paint quality, etc. Don't underestimate how many things break on a neglected ~30 year old car (like I kinda did :wink.

Almost every NSX circuit board with a capacitor can/will fail, gauge cluster fires, main relay, EPS/CCU/FCU/radios/amps go out, mirror switch, turn signal cancel, etc. etc. The engine is sensitive to overheating and has popped head gaskets, TB pulley fails and grenades the engine, VVIS screws get ingested into a piston, valve guide cracking, water pump cavitation, cam caps/lobes overheat and weld themselves together, etc.

I'd also be careful relying on a friend's friend mechanic, you never really know how that will work out in the long term. Stuff happens and you might get stuck with a half done car. Gotta have a plan B too.

I'm also coming across negatively but if you're really set on the car you can make it work, but it will be much more expensive and take much longer than you're hoping, it's just the nature of the game. I've had a similar experience which is why I'm sticking my nose in, when I was looking for a low-budget NSX in 2019 and figuring out if I should do a manual trans swap, almost everyone said it was a bad idea or nearly impossible without an entire parts car. I spent 1.5 years researching and gathering parts from multiple countries and made it work, but I've invested way more time and money than I thought I would and gotten burned a few times. Still, happy where I'm at now and you learn a ton along the way so I think it's worth it if you can swing it.

 

[NoobSX]

There's plenty of NSX engines and electronics that fail, just like Honda's "reliable" auto transmissions from the past decade, paint quality, etc. Don't underestimate how many things break on a neglected ~30 year old car (like I kinda did :wink.

Almost every NSX circuit board with a capacitor can/will fail, gauge cluster fires, main relay, EPS/CCU/FCU/radios/amps go out, mirror switch, turn signal cancel, etc. etc. The engine is sensitive to overheating and has popped head gaskets, TB pulley fails and grenades the engine, VVIS screws get ingested into a piston, valve guide cracking, water pump cavitation, cam caps/lobes overheat and weld themselves together, etc.

I could handle everything, but mirror switch and turn signal cancel is where I draw the line.

Thanks for your input, I agree that most things can go bad, however we'll have to see if that's the case with this specimen. I guess...if I buy it.

 

[MotorMouth93]

The engine is sensitive to overheating and has popped head gaskets, TB pulley fails and grenades the engine, VVIS screws get ingested into a piston, valve guide cracking, water pump cavitation, cam caps/lobes overheat and weld themselves together, etc.

Every aluminum engine is sensitive to overheating and will blow a head gasket if the head warps.

Every engine with a timing belt including every rock solid reliable 90s Honda engine has a timing belt service required.

VVIS screw issues are ridiculously rare, a handful out of nearly 20k cars worldwide, and very easy to check on and take care of preemptively.

Valve guides cracking is a nearly nonexistent issue on 3.0 heads. Still very rare on 3.2 motors.

Water pump issues are almost nonexistent as long as you keep up with coolant flush intervals.

Cam cap/lobe issues are also ridiculously rare and typically present on cars that rarely get driven and then started up dry. Change your oil and drive your car and you won't have a problem.

 

[Big McLargeHuge]

This feels a bit contradictory for no reason, saying "everything does that" doesn't invalidate the relevance of a single case. Did the OP know about most of those points before I mentioned them? I assumed not based on their posted experience. Since the VVIS issue is ridiculously rare, why do you and I go through the trouble of checking them? You build entire engines, OP has done an oil change and air filter. They need this info.

If OP buys it, we'll all gladly be here to help just like what was said above despite the 9:3 against buying in the poll.

 

[alcheng]

is it possible, or are you willing to pay some money to have it tow/trailer to a mechanic to have an assessment done so you have an idea how much you will have to spend to get it to a drive-able condition?

I can feel that you have already make up your mind to buy it, but you are also afraid the unknown cost on the restoration.

It will cost you some money that's for sure, on the towing and also for the inspection, but at least you will have a solid picture on the total cost.

 

[MotorMouth93]

My apologies, rereading my post I can see that the tone is somewhat hostile.

The point I was trying to get at is that the NA1 drivetrain is pretty solid in stock form and doesn't really have any common problems outside of what you'd expect from any other Honda vehicle and they'll easily run 200k miles or more. There are a few outliers but a handful of cars out of 20k isn't really all that significant IMO.

 

[Big McLargeHuge]

My apologies, rereading my post I can see that the tone is somewhat hostile.

The point I was trying to get at is that the NA1 drivetrain is pretty solid in stock form and doesn't really have any common problems outside of what you'd expect from any other Honda vehicle and they'll easily run 200k miles or more. There are a few outliers but a handful of cars out of 20k isn't really all that significant IMO.

No problem, thanks.

Fully agree. I just like cautioning OP since they seem pretty new to car maintenance and I know blowing a C30, though rare, would be pretty devastating to me personally and likely OP.

is it possible, or are you willing to pay some money to have it tow/trailer to a mechanic to have an assessment done so you have an idea how much you will have to spend to get it to a drive-able condition?

I can feel that you have already make up your mind to buy it, but you are also afraid the unknown cost on the restoration.

It will cost you some money that's for sure, on the towing and also for the inspection, but at least you will have a solid picture on the total cost.

It seems like that's the plan, maybe NSXs in Europe are rare enough that this kind of opportunity rarely comes up. IMO, most mechanics besides an NSX specialist will miss quite a few expensive items unless they spend a few days with the car in question, but I guess the ultimate cost depends on what condition you'd want to "restore" it to. I think any NSX that's not a metal pretzel is worth saving, but someone along the line will be paying big dollarydoos for the restoration, in most cases way more than the final product would be worth.

 

[NoobSX]

is it possible, or are you willing to pay some money to have it tow/trailer to a mechanic to have an assessment done so you have an idea how much you will have to spend to get it to a drive-able condition?

I can feel that you have already make up your mind to buy it, but you are also afraid the unknown cost on the restoration.

It will cost you some money that's for sure, on the towing and also for the inspection, but at least you will have a solid picture on the total cost.

Unfortunately it is not possible.
1st because the owner is busy and doesn't put priority on selling the car. We barely got to catch him to show us the car, now imagine trying to reason him to put it on a truck for inspection, then receive it back later. Mission impossible.
2nd because it is far away, in another town
3rd because of what he said:

IMO, most mechanics besides an NSX specialist will miss quite a few expensive items unless they spend a few days with the car in question

There simply isn't a NSX specialist anywhere near, nor would anyone care enough to spend a few days with the car (or they would rip you off on inspection). I'd need to transport it to another country just for inspection, which in itself is a questionable move. First because it would cost a lot, second because you'd need to have trust in the shop doing the inspection that they will not rip you off (which they would) and third because you'd need to be present there physically, at least at some point in time, which is not doable for me.

I haven't made up my mind yet.
Actually, right now it's more likely that I won't buy the car, but there are still some factors we're checking to bring the final conclusion.

 

[RSO 34]

Unfortunately it is not possible.
1st because the owner is busy and doesn't put priority on selling the car. We barely got to catch him to show us the car, now imagine trying to reason him to put it on a truck for inspection, then receive it back later. Mission impossible.
2nd because it is far away, in another town
3rd because of what he said:



There simply isn't a NSX specialist anywhere near, nor would anyone care enough to spend a few days with the car (or they would rip you off on inspection). I'd need to transport it to another country just for inspection, which in itself is a questionable move. First because it would cost a lot, second because you'd need to have trust in the shop doing the inspection that they will not rip you off (which they would) and third because you'd need to be present there physically, at least at some point in time, which is not doable for me.

I haven't made up my mind yet.
Actually, right now it's more likely that I won't buy the car, but there are still some factors we're checking to bring the final conclusion.

If you don’t know how to repair and rebuild an nsx and you fear getting ripped off on the cost just for an inspection and you don’t have an nsx specialist in the country let alone near you then quite honestly, in my opinion, you should have stopped asking for our advice days ago and just walked away from this likely financial disaster.

 

[asylum]

Welcome here ! I doubt that everything that has been listed here needs to be replaced. Then for 35 k$ with this mileage, even if you consider 10-15 k$ to have it running reliably, it is still a great deal as long as motor and chassis are good.

 

[NoobSX]

Welcome here ! I doubt that everything that has been listed here needs to be replaced. Then for 35 k$ with this mileage, even if you consider 10-15 k$ to have it running reliably, it is still a great deal as long as motor and chassis are good.

Thanks
We're checking if import papers are all legit and if the car can be actually registered.
The dude imported it from America and apparently never registered it, so it looks like I'm gonna be its first EU plates owner, but there's a few things we need to make clear first.
One of them being checking with our registry office if the car should be registered as an oldtimer (different plates), or as a regular car.

 

[docjohn]

oh he's a dude alright....

 

[drew]

>Actually, right now it's more likely that I won't buy the car, but there are still some factors we're checking to bring the final conclusion.

I'm unclear on why you are not just considering a flip?

Should be a solid $5k in net profit, likely +$10K.

I agree you are in well over your head on bringing the car into service. But the barriers are low for a flip...