Acura NSX Details Emerge - in Today's Autoweek

[N Spec]

not withstanding, his excitement level in the LFA well surpassed that of the NSX experience. i agree with him, Supercars shouldn't be rational or sensible, they should be completely mental...

He hated the LFA at first. Then he reneged on his statement later for some strange reason - Either he was approached by Lexus with "digital perks" to give it good press or he was pressured by his peers. He initial reaction was most honest and it really seemed like he like the NSX better.

but i was completely exaggerating of course when i said that. Aston Martin made 77 examples of the One-77, and sold every one of the 750hp V12 2-seater coupes at over a million pounds each, almost $2 million U.S. dollars at the current exchange. some times it's just about making a statement, not about making money. Toyota sells plenty of Corolla's and Camry's for that...

Guess how many people actually cared about the Aston Martin One-77? Probably only the 77 foolish enough to pay for them :tongue: Over-priced fashion statements in the car industry... Again, I see nothing that is admirable about cars that pick one single factor and push it to the limit while sacrificing/compromising everything else and then try to justify the higher price tag by "Limited" quantities. Sure, it does 750 hp NA and looks pretty cool (but still looks like just another Aston Martin). At ~103 hp/liter, it's not like that is not palpable at all...

very true, but it certainly can't hurt on the technology side of things. one thing to remember about Ferrari and Lotus, etc., is that their main goal and targets when designing and producing road cars is not "practicality and reliability". it's "how light can we get this car, how much power can we get out of it, and how quickly can we get this thing around the race track?" Honda was the first one to put those other factors into the Supercar equation. if you were to take a look inside a brand new Lamborghini, you quickly realise (if you didn't already know) that "practicality" was never a major concern for that company. it's a nice thing to have as an added bonus, but no one buys an exotic vehicle for its practicality...

If all Ferrari or any race car company cared about was a car that was very light and made excellent horsepower to weight ratio, you would get either a tube chassis with a roll cage car or a motorcycle. Stop living in a dream. Either, you need to change your profession to a race car driver or wake up. You sound like a little kid. Admirable, but mistaken. Again, this is 2013. Super cars can be excellent road cars now while still cover a broad range of categories such as be aesthetically pleasing, well built, practical, reliable, comfortable and extremely fast. You want a crazy super car, go back to the 80s or 90s when they were poorly built and unreliable. Plenty of soul for you back in then.

 

[fastaussie]

He hated the LFA at first. Then he reneged on his statement later for some strange reason - Either he was approached by Lexus with "digital perks" to give it good press or he was pressured by his peers. He initial reaction was most honest and it really seemed like he like the NSX better.

your personal opinion sounds a bit conspiracy theorist? if he was coerced to change his mind and outlook on the car, then they would have just omitted the previous footage and never aired it. pretty easy to do in this digital age. he has the same opinion as everyone else, that it's an amazingly exhilarating and visceral car, despite and even because of, it's faults. and honestly, there's no comparison between a '91 NSX and a 20 year newer LFA with exactly double the power and 2 decades more technology. they're different cars to boot, with different design briefs as well. this guy is also a professional journalist, with a professional reputation. his stated opinion was his honest opinion.

Guess how many people actually cared about the Aston Martin One-77?

many people care about the One-77, it's just that you don't personally know any.

If all Ferrari or any race car company cared about was a car that was very light and made excellent horsepower to weight ratio, you would get either a tube chassis with a roll cage car or a motorcycle. Stop living in a dream. Either, you need to change your profession to a race car driver or wake up. You sound like a little kid. Admirable, but mistaken. Again, this is 2013. Super cars can be excellent road cars now while still cover a broad range of categories such as be aesthetically pleasing, well built, practical, reliable, comfortable and extremely fast. You want a crazy super car, go back to the 80s or 90s when they were poorly built and unreliable. Plenty of soul for you back in then.

it's not about what i want, what my profession is, or whether i'm a child or a grown up. a Supercar, Exotic car, or Hypercar by it's very (non-literal please) definition is not a practical car. sure, you can make it easier to live with, make it more reliable, make it more practical. but that is not it's purpose. it's main purpose is to go really fast, in a straight line, and around corners. that's why the old NSX, the new NSX, every single Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, etc. are tested on race tracks, and not grocery store runs. "practical cars" are a completely different market segment. the NSX was never billed or advertised as the world's best practical car...

 

[docjohn]

n spec.........the reason prime is so awesome is because it has a very respectable knowledgeable core group that have tremendous life experience and wisdom....you won't find me debating my position using statements that are inflammatory or demeaning (unless i know the person I'm wailing on) calling a stranger a little kid and to stop dreaming on line paints a picture of you as the youngster....just sayin.

 

[N Spec]

I'm not trying to demean fastaussie. I'm trying to challenge his ideals on a supercar. Again, it may appear like I'm being dreadfully serious, because you can't tell my tone, but my post is riddled with sarcasm and lightness (even if it's not clearly evident). We all have certain ideals/dreams that are broken as little kids when reality dawns upon us. It's a bitter situation, but that's life. I wish we all could live in an ideal world or our own fantasies.

fastaussie: Your ideal of a super/hyper/exotic car is in fact a race car, and not a road car. If all one cares about is going fast around a track and a straight line, then it's a either motorcycle or a race car that can solely suit that need. Forget about efficiency, gas mileage, comfort, emission and even safety. You can rebuild the engine every time you have a long session on the track or go for a spirited drive/roadtrip. Money is no object, so there's no need for things such as gaskets or sealants for any connections, there should only be the most precisely manufactured parts. This means that the craftsman or creator of any part, say the exhaust manifold, will either have to take several iterations and any part or make singularly larger pieces, thus wasting time, money and ultimately efficiency. Imagine that for every part of the car. This is how some people, like Bugatti used to think. This is why is work is compared to "art" and not actual "products" in this practical industrial age we live in.

This is the ideal that we all may want to strive for, but it's not realistic or practical. We live in a practical world. Money/resources are real issues. We all wish we could say "psshh, that's not a problem like Iron Man and keep on churning out product after product without consequences." That's what you sound like fastaussie. You want companies to embody a little kid's idealism, but I and many others find that idealism is unbalanced.

Even race teams are conscious and considerate of what I just mentioned, hence why they are always striving for efficiency while being mandated by rules and regulation in their own realm.

 

[WingZ]

but my post is riddled with sarcasm and lightness (even if it's not clearly evident).

Bwahaha sorry I'm a huge fan of dry humor

 

[BD]

Talking smack about the LF/A is like saying F1 sux because dragster is faster.

The precision on the LF/A is unparalleled. Like the NSX, it's package, not just pure acceleration.

When I look at LF/A, I think of cars like Zonda, not Ferrari.

 

[N Spec]

Talking smack about the LF/A is like saying F1 sux because dragster is faster.

The precision on the LF/A is unparalleled. Like the NSX, it's package, not just pure acceleration.

When I look at LF/A, I think of cars like Zonda, not Ferrari.

The first statement is an exaggerated over-simplification. There is logic behind my criticism and I don't want to keep repeating myself.

It's an impressive package for what it and I can imagine the fit and finish to be top notch, but package value and production numbers are flawed.

 

[Juice]

Honestly, can we drop this already. This thread has been hijacked, taken hostage, used during negotiations, then as a human shield all while the public at large has lost any interest in the crime taking place. If you really need to express your overly infatuated dismay as to the qualifications and general mass appeal of the Lexus LFA, take it to THEIR forum and have the argument there. PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WALK AWAY FROM THE HORSES CORPSE!

 

[N Spec]

Lol I was waiting for themat picture to show up lol

 

[JD Cross]

That's the sticking point for Honda because it is hard to keep a car reliable while putting that kind of stress on the power train, so we as NSX lovers, do we really care about 3 second, or 3.5 will do as long as it can be used as a daily driver reliably for decades.

Getting back on topic, I'm with BD on this.
An updated version of the original, with 911 or better performance, and retaining the trademark driveability and reliability.

 

[NZNick]

My view is that Acura/Honda is trying to raise the bar again, as they did back in 1990, by marrying the best technologies with an affordability and efficiency element. The BHP / 0-60 times / top speed war isn't the aim here - all the car has to do in these areas is not to fail. The costs (of purchase and ongoing fuel cost) are much more important to Acura/Honda as that is what will attract buyers, not (perceived) heritage. The car will be in an altogether different market segment to (current) McLaren, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Pagani etc. so should not be compared to them. As for the other Japanese halo cars, none will offer the same blend of high performance, affordability, efficiency and mid-engined balance.
By being most of a Porsche 918, most of a McLaren P1, most of a LaFerrari but without the ultra-exclusive price-tag, the Acura/Honda will set the new benchmark for Porsche 911+ segment cars.

 

[N Spec]

My view is that Acura/Honda is trying to raise the bar again, as they did back in 1990, by marrying the best technologies with an affordability and efficiency element. The BHP / 0-60 times / top speed war isn't the aim here - all the car has to do in these areas is not to fail. The costs (of purchase and ongoing fuel cost) are much more important to Acura/Honda as that is what will attract buyers, not (perceived) heritage. The car will be in an altogether different market segment to (current) McLaren, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Pagani etc. so should not be compared to them. As for the other Japanese halo cars, none will offer the same blend of high performance, affordability, efficiency and mid-engined balance.
By being most of a Porsche 918, most of a McLaren P1, most of a LaFerrari but without the ultra-exclusive price-tag, the Acura/Honda will set the new benchmark for Porsche 911+ segment cars.

I concur. If Honda can come, let's say within 80%-90% of the aforementioned performance level, while maintaining an exotic/unrivaled level of aesthetics and fit/finish and of course the Honda reliability and value, then they would definitely have raised the bar again for a practical/common-man, perfectly balanced, super/hyper car. An ace-of-all-trades if you will.

 

[NZNick]

Reverse - electric only?

I gleaned from somewhere (not sure where - might have been my sub-concious) that the New NSX would not have a reverse gear as such, but selecting reverse would use the electric motors only. This was to save size and weight in the gearbox. Does anyone know if this was just a dream of mine, or would this be possible? Do any other Hybrids use this facility?

 

[fastaussie]

I'm not trying to demean fastaussie. I'm trying to challenge his ideals on a supercar.

This is the ideal that we all may want to strive for, but it's not realistic or practical. We live in a practical world. Money/resources are real issues.

Mr. N Spec, i think you have well missed my point every time? you do love to use the words practical and practicality quite often. please explain what is practical about a 2-seater, sports car, with very little interior or trunk space, designed for high performance, for over $100,000?

how many Americans do you know that shop for a practical car costing over six figures?

this is the online dictionary's definition of the word "supercar": [TABLE="width: 100%"]
<tbody>[TR="class: tr1"]
[TD="class: td1, colspan: 2"]supercar
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: tr2"]
[TD="class: td2, colspan: 2"]— n
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: tr3"]
[TD="class: td3n1, width: 1%, align: right"][/TD]
[TD="class: td3n2"]a very expensive fast or powerful car with a centrally located engine
[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

is anyone really gonna choose between a Ferrari and a Porsche based on which one gets the best fuel mileage? you might if you were considering a Prius or an Insight. passion fuels the purchase of a sports or super car, which is something nobody needs and is certainly not practical. the aforementioned dictionary definition is what the next NSX will need to be. which is really what i've been saying all along...

If Honda can come, let's say within 80%-90% of the aforementioned performance level, while maintaining an exotic/unrivaled level of aesthetics and fit/finish and of course the Honda reliability and value, then they would definitely have raised the bar again.

would anybody on this forum be honestly satisfied if the new NSX is 80% to 90% as good as anything else, really? can you consider that "raising the bar" if you're below the competition standard?

 

[JD Cross]

would anybody on this forum be honestly satisfied if the new NSX is 80% to 90% as good as anything else, really? can you consider that "raising the bar" if you're below the competition standard?

Yes I will be satisfied.
While we use Ferrari, McLaren, etc., as the "competition standard", there are other smaller manufacturers that build cars that will outperform them.
Ferrari doesn't appear to be wringing their hands over boutique manufacturers who make cars that can outperform the 458, nor does Porsche appear concerned that the 458 outperforms their 911.

A manufacturer has to position their product somewhere in a market segment.
You can't be all things to all people
I've read Ferrari makes 3-4K 458's per year, and Porsche builds 30-40K 911's per year.
They may both be in the sports car market but occupy different positions within that market and as the car price goes up, volume goes down.
Price points also offer some idea of the level of performance and cost of manufacture.

So are we expecting Honda to offer an NSX that performs at the 458 level that sells for $120K
While that would surely be "raising the bar" I'm not sure that's possible.
We can hope Honda will "raise the bar" but I think we can only expect that within the market segment the NSX will be in.

If Honda's research on markets and costs suggests they will need to sell, say, 18,000 cars per year at a price range of $130-140K to break even they need to offer an NSX that performs/outperforms other cars in that market segment.
And what segment can Honda hope to be successful in given the company history/reputation/sales volume/6 cylinder engine etc.?
It would appear to be in Porsche territory.

My expectation is the new NSX outperforms the 911, nothing loftier than that.

Perhaps in time, after building on the base of a successful launch of the NSX, and success in F1, Honda could move upmarket with type-R variants in smaller volumes at higher prices.

 

[ozone]

This is what would satisfy me and achieve the goals re: new NSX:

1) GTR-level performance. The technology is there and Honda can make a lighter car. This is do-able and they should aim for nothing less.

2) Honda level reliability - This will be a challenge with all the new tech/hybrids, but this is what Honda is known for. With the time they're taking in this project, I expect nothing less and I feel they can do this.

3) $110-140K price point. This fits in with the rumors. The high end may be more than I want to pay for a car but I think it's justified

4) Exotic design. This is my primary concern. I want it to have a wow factor like Ferraris/Lambos and other true exotics. Can't look like a GTR or even an R8. I am warming on the design but it hasn't gotten me yet. I've seen the prototype in person. If Honda can get this right (what I'm most unsure of) and hit the other 3 (which I think it will), then the NSX can be a worthy heir to our cars. I know #4 is subjective, but right now the look isn't in the ballpark of our NSXes (relative to the era) and I'm not sure how much, if any, of the design element will change.

 

[docjohn]

It is interesting this whole idea of exotic looking.The R8 does not draw my eye at the car shows like the italians...now i know that crash testing and pedestrian safety have influenced the frontal design of newer cars..but dang ferrari and lotus are still able to certify lovely front end designs.

 

[latzke]

Reverse - electric only?

I gleaned from somewhere (not sure where - might have been my sub-concious) that the New NSX would not have a reverse gear as such, but selecting reverse would use the electric motors only. This was to save size and weight in the gearbox. Does anyone know if this was just a dream of mine, or would this be possible? Do any other Hybrids use this facility?

I've seen articles mention an "all-electric reverse motor" for the McLaren P1. Not sure what that is / how it would work as the KERS system is not independent of the engine - output goes through the gearbox. So unless gearbox has reverse it would need to spin the engine backwards in first or something. Maybe there is a reverse gear and they just deactivate the engine when reversing? Maybe a motor dedicated to reverse (don't know how that would save weight)?

Would be easier to execute with the NSX...just use the two front electric motors for reverse. Seems like an excellent idea except the front doesn't have much weight so could result in getting stuck where traction is limited (ice, snow, in the dirt off-the-track). Maybe they'll do whatever the P1 is doing AND use the front motors.

 

[jcbadcura]

2) Honda level reliability

Food for thought: Does Honda really produce reliable cars today like they did during the Nsx era....?

 

[N Spec]

Mr. N Spec, i think you have well missed my point every time? you do love to use the words practical and practicality quite often. please explain what is practical about a 2-seater, sports car, with very little interior or trunk space, designed for high performance, for over $100,000?

how many Americans do you know that shop for a practical car costing over six figures?

You, sir obviously know very little of the NSX experience. If I were to spend 6 figures of my money, I would expect a certain level of overall competence and efficiency. Please read all of my post carefully before responding.

I owned a 1995 NSX back in college and packed a 32 inch LCD TV in the trunk, electronics, clothes (enough to last me up to month) and etc. when I came home for holidays. I even used the Targa holder to hold my dress attire. I drove 300 miles back and forth from school comfortably and reliably, getting 29-30 mpg. The only maintenance I had to keep up were fluids and one bad coilpack as the waterpump/timing belt was already done.

There are NSX owners who have broken 300K mileage and 200K is the norm, all documented on this site. So many people daily drive the NSX. Even a Comptech supercharged NSX can go for for 200K miles apparently.

Another example is the McLaren F1. While very expensive and basically unobtainable, the F1's design was NSX influenced and had many designs that accommodated conveniences like luggage when it did not need to. This sub 3,000 lb car could fit 3 people. Also, this multi-million dollar McLaren F1 that chose to stay NA for reliability, but hit 240 mph is apparently capable of 100K miles! Imagine that. How many 90s supercars can do/ have done that? Check out the video of the analog supercars by Evo Magazine:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...rcars-that-makes-me-appreciate-my-500-crank-H

One day, a really huge LFA enthusiast and owner will probably show the extreme reliability of the elusive Toyota but putting obscene mileage on it like NSX.

Fastaussie: again, you are too idealistic to be realistic. You seem to only believe in black or white extremities and not grey area that can cover both successfully. You are the one who has been misunderstanding my messages. Resorting to dictionary definitions of a supercar when I already told you the definition is evolving like technology and the needs change with time. Please come back to the present and stop living in the 80s.

would anybody on this forum be honestly satisfied if the new NSX is 80% to 90% as good as anything else, really? can you consider that "raising the bar" if you're below the competition standard?

I am talking about LaFerrari, 918 and P1 performance levels. 80%-90% of those million dollar cars, at a fraction of their price tag (1/5). Don't skim through my messages if you are going to offer a counter-argument.

- - - Updated - - -

It is interesting this whole idea of exotic looking.The R8 does not draw my eye at the car shows like the italians...now i know that crash testing and pedestrian safety have influenced the frontal design of newer cars..but dang ferrari and lotus are still able to certify lovely front end designs.

This is very vital in my book. I dislike the look of the R8 (and most of the German sports cars) specially because of the high hoodline for safety. Have you guys checked out the Pebble beach photos tho? The NSX Concept's nose is looking rather low and exotic in those pics. This new NSX front end is really tricky IMO.

 

[JD Cross]

I am talking about LaFerrari, 918 and P1 performance levels. 80%-90% of those million dollar cars, at a fraction of their price tag (1/5). Don't skim through my messages if you are going to offer a counter-argument.

Are you really expecting Honda to deliver 80-90 % of the performance of the above three cars for 20% of their price?
That's like asking Honda to provide NSX level performance at the price of a Civic?
Is that realistic or idealistic?

 

[N Spec]

Are you really expecting Honda to deliver 80-90 % of the performance of the above three cars for 20% of their price?
That's like asking Honda to provide NSX level performance at the price of a Civic?
Is that realistic or idealistic?

No, I don't expect it. I am saying who wouldn't be satisfied? Heck, I'd be impressed if it was 75% at that price range. At 500+ Hp and proper weight, I would say it could land within 80% range. Very much like the 458 is within ~90% range of the LaFerrari.

 

[Elistan]

Who says they are not? Just because we are all blinded by the car they are putting in front of us does not mean that a 2(or 4?) seater roadster isn't already being conceptualized behind the Honda curtain. Just keep your eyes on the NSX for now. Nothing to see here.

So, being in Ohio, any special insight from Honda there...? That said, although absence of proof is not proof of absence, I'm still absent of any proof whatsoever of a mid-market Honda sportscar. Fortunately, my 127,000 mile S2000 is still running well except for some tired suspension bushings I need to get replaced. (It's too bad American Honda doesn't offer a refresh service like Honda Japan does for the NSX.) In the meantime, my only option if the S2000 is totaled is a used Porsche.

Is it completely insane to think the NSX 2.0 could come in around the RLX with Advance Package price of $60k? Boy, would THAT ever catch people's attention.

Sigh.

 

[clean_green]

So, being in Ohio, any spec

Is it completely insane to think the NSX 2.0 could come in around the RLX with Advance Package price of $60k? Boy, would THAT ever catch people's attention.

Sigh.

Maybe the much rumored mini-NSX will fill that slot?

 

[fastaussie]

You, sir obviously know very little of the NSX experience. If I were to spend 6 figures of my money, I would expect a certain level of overall competence and efficiency. Please read all of my post carefully before responding.

ok N Spec, you win. a Supercar is a very practical vehicle. great for offroading, taking the kids to soccer practice, going to the beach with the family, towing a boat, and moving the contents of your apartment across country. most people would say a pick-up truck is a practical vehicle, or an SUV, or even a 4-door sedan? but i now see what you are saying about the McLaren F1. my friend has one, it's a very practical car indeed...

- - - Updated - - -

a lot of people are talking about using the 911 as a benchmark for a performance target for the new NSX, and how the 911 does not compete against the 458 Ferrari. the base model obviously does not, but the 911 Turbo certainly does, and has for a long time now.

Honda could do the same and make a normally aspirated/electric hybrid (base model) NSX, and then offer a lighter, faster model such as an R Type. i'd be good with that... :smile: