Acura NSX Details Emerge - in Today's Autoweek
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fastaussie
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of the cars you've just mentioned, it'd be my pick...
But are you in the market solely for a 2 seater front engine coupe given the alternative choices of the mid engine car offerings? How many people who are about to spend $100K+ on a car say I only want a GT/front engine sports car???
When you say you are not interested in the other 3 major brands, have you not already made up your mind??? There is not much logic left to dispute especially if you want to stay in the "exotic" category given the limited choices.
However, if we were comparing cars based on engine size so that they would have similar exhaust sounds and power output, I would rank it in my own personal order (1st is best preference and last is last): Carrera GT, Gallardo, LFA, R8 V10, Dodge Viper and lastly the other Audi/VW V10s. I bet the LFA's engine is more reliable and more efficient than the current V10 competition, but the Carrera GT and Gallardo offers much more attractive packages, performance wise and aesthetically. If Honda would have released their V10, it most likely would have trumped the LFA's V10 and we never got to see the finished chassis/interior, but based on the current NSX concept's quality, Honda would have won IMO. Also if the 458 was a choice, it would be right up there with the Carrera GT for me.
Ford sold it's interests in Cosworth in 2004, the racing entity to Forsythe and Kalkhoven former Champ car owners and the road going part ended up with Mahle in Germany.
AMG and Mercedes were indeed separate entities until 1990 when Mercedes bought a controlling interest in AMG.
Nothing recent about that.
So Ford and Cosworth have been unrelated for 9 years and AMG has been controlled by Mercedes for 23 years.
If you are suggesting that Lotus F1 may buy or sell technology to Lotus Cars or Mahle may sell buy or sell technology to Ford, you may well be right, but the link appears tenuous.
The LFA is no longer produced. Not sure why you guys are even comparing this car to the NSX. Totally different categories.
fastaussie
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it's the never-ending LFA debate, here on NSX Prime! but the LFA is a supercar, so it bears some comparison.
JD, it's my knowledge that Mercedes and AMG started an official cooperating agreement in 1990 only. of course they had been working together for decades previous, or more so the AMG boys had been working on Mercedes engines previously. AMG was then incorporated into Mercedes in 1999, and Mercedes bought 100% of the shares of AMG in 2005. still fairly recent. Ford has as one time or another owned everyone, i think even Lamborghini at one point, but i reckon Cosworth has always controlled its own company. but i could be wrong? all i'm saying is if the new Lotus Esprit (whether it ever makes it to production or not) was listed as having a KERS system, that's a fairly direct trickle down from F1. so i'd imagine the Lotus F1 team would have helped out a bit with that one.
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i get what you're saying N Spec, but i reckon what DocJohn is saying is that he prefers the LFA over the others. i'm a mid-engine guy myself, like you, like most of us i imagine? when there was talk about a V10 front engined NSX a few years back i wasn't happy. but, if i was in the market for a front engined GT car, the LFA would be my choice of that pack. the Ferrari (there are many), Maserati (also a few GT models), Aston, would all be much better choices for a GT car, guaranteed. i've actually driven quite a few of these machines. the LFA isn't quite the same level of a GT car as the aforementioned models, i would say it's a bit more hard-edged. i dunno if you'd be as comfy driving it across the country as you'd be in a Aston? as far as a Viper goes, never had a desire to own one of them. have driven them before, was never impressed. of course it's fast, anything with an engine the size of my kitchen should be! had Honda actually produced that V10 front engined car, that may have been a better machine than the LFA, and the others... :smile:
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All I'm saying guys is that when we talk about objects in life we need to view them as objectively as possible,appreciate the needs of our fellow man and accept that our own prismatic view of things should not be applied to others....so yes I would consider an LFA as a GT car because it is unique,and like Honda at the time with the nsx ,toyota threw all its tech/knowledge at the time into it.
I know only one person who owns a GT-R and he describes it the same way. In my mind, the "the car drives itself" and "the car catches driver mistakes" and similar memes are overstated.
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Yep. When I changed jobs and the 12 mile commute in my S2000 turned into 45 miles (each way!) on often congested Interstates, I picked up a new 328i with the ZF 8 speed auto. Shifts just as fast and responsively as DCT cars I tested. I have zero concerns about my next sports car being DCT or similar.
Regarding the NSX - after being the owner of a couple affordable Honda sporty/sports cars (Integra GSR, S2000) I'm disappointed there doesn't exist one currently, and isn't one under development. A $130k NSX will be a great car I'm sure, but in my mind it's too bad they aren't targeting in the 300 to 320 HP range for under $50k. Basically a turbo, DCT, FR, two-seater in coupe and convertible trims. SH SH-AWD would be fine as long as they could keep the weight under 3000 lbs and the cost wasn't prohibitive.
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Who says they are not? Just because we are all blinded by the car they are putting in front of us does not mean that a 2(or 4?) seater roadster isn't already being conceptualized behind the Honda curtain. 
Just keep your eyes on the NSX for now. Nothing to see here.
Just keep your eyes on the NSX for now. Nothing to see here.As far as I know Lotus Cars uses Toyota engines and Lotus F1 uses Renault engines and KERS.
Do you think Renault is agreeing that Lotus F1 can share the Renault engine and KERS technology with Lotus Cars and their Toyota engines?
If so that's quite a scoop.
I get where you are coming from. I completely agree about appreciation for man and car. It may have sounded like I was trying to be harsh or a jackass in my statements, but it's just a car debate, not an argument. There is no anger or hate here. When I made those snob journalist or celebrity remarks, they were in a light manner in mind. You have to agree though, that in a sea of highly competent competitors in the general arena of all sports cars, the LFA does not look as appealing as it would if you were only limiting your choices to front engine GTs.
I still think Toyota could have delivered something better than what we know as the LFA today. Perhaps their upcoming LF-LC is their redemption as far as a more accessible/pragmatic sports car for the public that can offer more competitive performance for the value. They should still make a mid engine car either in the form of the MR2 or something of a successor. Perhaps the new NSX will motivate Toyota to do so. It's always nice to have more mid-engines one the market to choose from.
lol...so tell us how you really feel about the LFA
......btw I think there are many similarities in the corporate and design culture that lead toyota to make LFA as when honda did in 89-90 to create nsx.....Except that many design themes of toyota's other models have trickled down from LFA ...whereas the acura brand kinda left the nsx hanging out there and went a different way with other models in the brand.
......btw I think there are many similarities in the corporate and design culture that lead toyota to make LFA as when honda did in 89-90 to create nsx.....Except that many design themes of toyota's other models have trickled down from LFA ...whereas the acura brand kinda left the nsx hanging out there and went a different way with other models in the brand.lol...so tell us how you really feel about the LFA
Like I said, I like the fact that the LFA looks like a mid-engine car even though it's front engine. If the price tag was more realistic at~$150K with an aluminum/steel body (hence less carbon fiber) and there was some reshaping/restructuring to keep the weigh just under 3,500 lbs, then there would have been universal acclaim IMO. There would be a few thousand LFAs going around too I'm sure at that price, making it more available to people interested. That is a much better balanced car than the $400K limited 500 car run. The car should be blowing doors off the GTR and 458 with that kind of publicity. Instead, all it could muster was a record around some "track" and then a Dodge Viper at nearly a quarter of the LFA price upsets that record and everyone else trying to leave a mark on that particular playground.
I actually prefer it that way. It makes the NSX more unique in a sense. Honda did try to incorporate the language to a sedan concept, but it never came to production. The Legend, Integra, 1998 style Accord coupe and last gen Prelude bears some resemblance. One could also compare the 02 NSX front end design to that era's Civic front end. The biggest carry over is the way Honda does their door interior. The NSX started the idea and then many Honda cars to this day with leather interior followed suit with an evolved or simplified design.
My gripe is Honda failed to make the NSX more of a household name. Hopefully this time around, more people (most particularly women :redface
will know of the NSX. I still predict a lot of "Is that a Lamborghini remarks?" :tongue:
fastaussie
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HA! so true...
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i do honestly believe Toyota didn't want the LFA to be running around like Mustangs and Camaros. a calculator would run out of digits before it could calculate the amount of Corvettes between your house and the grocery store! i think the 500 production run was absolutely intentional to insure the rarity of the car. Ferrari does this all the time, Lambo too. Aston Martin has done it with the One-77. many of the manufacturers do this on purpose, and i'm down with it...
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this is (as we know for now) correct. Lotus F1 cars are powered by Renault engines, as are Red Bull and others. all the front running F1 teams are using KERS also.
Toyota supplies the engines for all of the recent batch of Lotus cars. the last Lotus built engine i am aware of was the 3.5l Twin Turbo V8 in the Esprit which spooled out 350 hp at low boost. i heard it was cake to turn up the boost and make 400. the rumour i heard about the engine for the new Esprit was the Lexus ISF engine with two turbos. the normally aspirated version of the ISF engine is a 5.0 litre V8 pumping out 416hp. they were talking about 560hp for the new Esprit last anyone heard. whether or not any of that happens is anyone's guess? it could end up being Renault that supplies the engine?
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Why would Renault supply Lotus Cars with engines when Renault has signed a joint venture agreement with Caterham to build Renault Alpine sports cars?
It makes no sense for Renault to share technology with Lotus cars who are a competitor to Renault.
Besides Renault already has a corporate tie in with Nissan.
I suspect Mr. Lopez of Lotus F1 would like to purchase Lotus Cars and put the F1 and Car companies together.
However Lotus Cars has in excess of $400 million in debt which no one wants and is a money loser today.
If Lotus Cars can find a way to launch a new Esprit it won't have any input from Lotus F1, Renault, Nissan or Caterham.
fastaussie
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like i said mate, anyone's guess...
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talk about taking things out of context. you actually made once sentence from the beginning and end of two separate paragraphs there...
That I did.
Like I said, I like the fact that the LFA looks like a mid-engine car even though it's front engine. If the price tag was more realistic at~$150K with an aluminum/steel body (hence less carbon fiber) and there was some reshaping/restructuring to keep the weigh just under 3,500 lbs, then there would have been universal acclaim IMO. There would be a few thousand LFAs going around too I'm sure at that price, making it more available to people interested. That is a much better balanced car than the $400K limited 500 car run. The car should be blowing doors off the GTR and 458 with that kind of publicity. Instead, all it could muster was a record around some "track" and then a Dodge Viper at nearly a quarter of the LFA price upsets that record and everyone else trying to leave a mark on that particular playground.
I actually prefer it that way. It makes the NSX more unique in a sense. Honda did try to incorporate the language to a sedan concept, but it never came to production. The Legend, Integra, 1998 style Accord coupe and last gen Prelude bears some resemblance. One could also compare the 02 NSX front end design to that era's Civic front end. The biggest carry over is the way Honda does their door interior. The NSX started the idea and then many Honda cars to this day with leather interior followed suit with an evolved or simplified design.
My gripe is Honda failed to make the NSX more of a household name. Hopefully this time around, more people (most particularly women :redface
What are you talking about? The LFA has gathered some of the best praise and press a car can get from the hardest of reviewers. Clarkson says its the best car he's ever driven. Chris's Harris went nuts over it. EVO picked the LFA over the 599 GTO. It conquered the Ring. The praise for the LFA was overflowing and continues to gather amazing press.
The LFA and NSX are apples to oranges. The LFA was an effort by all of Toyota/Lexus to build the best car in Japan they can make and it's trickled down already. The NSX II was pretty much pushed to America from Japan where they were told "you build it".
Looking at supergt, the upcoming RC battles the NSx and gtr. The upcoming LF CC is an awd hybrid ala NSx so they have more in common drivetrain wise.
Let's not take things out of proportion here or exaggerate. 3x the current production of the LFA would put it at 1,500. That's much more accessible than 500. Even the Carrera GT had a run of over 1,000 cars built. The NSX saw just under 20K unit worldwide because unlike Toyota, Honda had a plan and actually knew what they were building and proposed a 20K run in the first place. Even the GTR's attractive pricing/value starting at $70K has it's production numbers quite low like the NSX. If the LFA was $150K, they would not be rampantly populated like a $50K Corvette or $40K Mustang/Camaro.
All I will say about the F1 talk is that just because a company does well in F1 or racing does not mean it will make excellent road cars. Just look at Ferrari. They have more or less done well in racing history quite consistently, but they did not start making really good road cars until the 2000s. There can be a lot of arguments about this, but the 360 marked a change in Ferrari's quality, and it's clearly evident. Ford has done well in the past, and let's not talk about their road cars over the years.
Lotus has never made a really good road car. Many will agree with this. Also when I say excellent road car, I mean build quality, fit/finish, aesthetically pleasing, practicality and reliability. These levels have all been elevated in mordern sports cars. Race cars compromise many of these categories and that's how I've always viewed Lotus, as a kit race car that sources parts from other manufacturers.
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Reliability still something Honda strive for, even for an extreme machine.
That's probably why Honda is going through the hybrid route. If this is a turbo charged car with three separate electric motors, this car may very well out perform the GTR in every aspect. Not to mention the center of gravity will but much lower.
Reliability still something Honda strive for, even for an extreme machine.
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fastaussie
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not withstanding, his excitement level in the LFA well surpassed that of the NSX experience. i agree with him, Supercars shouldn't be rational or sensible, they should be completely mental...
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but i was completely exaggerating of course when i said that. Aston Martin made 77 examples of the One-77, and sold every one of the 750hp V12 2-seater coupes at over a million pounds each, almost $2 million U.S. dollars at the current exchange. some times it's just about making a statement, not about making money. Toyota sells plenty of Corolla's and Camry's for that...
very true, but it certainly can't hurt on the technology side of things. one thing to remember about Ferrari and Lotus, etc., is that their main goal and targets when designing and producing road cars is not "practicality and reliability". it's "how light can we get this car, how much power can we get out of it, and how quickly can we get this thing around the race track?" Honda was the first one to put those other factors into the Supercar equation. if you were to take a look inside a brand new Lamborghini, you quickly realise (if you didn't already know) that "practicality" was never a major concern for that company. it's a nice thing to have as an added bonus, but no one buys an exotic vehicle for its practicality...
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but i was completely exaggerating of course when i said that. Aston Martin made 77 examples of the One-77, and sold every one of the 750hp V12 2-seater coupes at over a million pounds each, almost $2 million U.S. dollars at the current exchange. some times it's just about making a statement, not about making money. Toyota sells plenty of Corolla's and Camry's for that...
very true, but it certainly can't hurt on the technology side of things. one thing to remember about Ferrari and Lotus, etc., is that their main goal and targets when designing and producing road cars is not "practicality and reliability". it's "how light can we get this car, how much power can we get out of it, and how quickly can we get this thing around the race track?" Honda was the first one to put those other factors into the Supercar equation. if you were to take a look inside a brand new Lamborghini, you quickly realise (if you didn't already know) that "practicality" was never a major concern for that company. it's a nice thing to have as an added bonus, but no one buys an exotic vehicle for its practicality...
I think you own the wrong car then. You can hope the next NSX is "deeply flawed, hard to live with, and annoying" (much of what the reviewer thinks is great about the LFA). I hope the next NSX is, 25 years later, everything the first was respective to its era. Nearly perfect, easy to live with, and a pleasure to drive.
fastaussie
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not at all, i love the old car i have now. and i hope the new car will be everything you just said also. i don't want the new car to be flawed on any level, just exciting...
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