Acura needs to wake up

[fastaussie]

If you're seriously going to have anyone believe that any of those German/Italian rigs are even half as reliable as a Honda, then that leads me to believe you don't know much about the car business.

what say you about this?

http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2017-vehicle-dependability-study

Porsche tops reliability with Lexus? Merc and BMW also rated above Honda?! Acura in 23rd place?

if i'm not mistaken, Porsche is quite German... :biggrin:

 

[blue_myriddn]

I always wonder why so many people whine about not enough hp, too "slow" a 0-60, slower on the Ring than "x", etc.

Virtually no owners drive the car to its potential and seem more intent on having the hypothetical ability to be the first car to the next red light. I see the same thing with Gen 1 owners looking to boost theirs only to have it look fast sitting at a cars and coffee. I have been tracking my '96 for 16 years and am quite happy driving it on the track with instructors and pros in their full race prepped rides while mine is still all original motor/tranny with 160k miles and 111 track days - plus daily driving to work in season.

Is it the fastest? Of course not. But I do drive it to its limits on a regular basis and it's still an amazing experience every time. I see very few owners on the track and don't really understand the need for raw "numbers" if you aren't going to actually use the car to its potential.

A Huracan could never hold up to my driving all these years. Would it be fun for 2000 miles a year? Of course. Could it handle actually being driven to its potential year in and year out and still be as reliable 20 years later? I sincerely doubt it.

Great post and sums up my feelings on "performance".

The slowest part of my car is me, the driver. I am willing to be that is the case for 99% of all high performance cars out there. So I don't care about all the magazine reports and numbers, to me "performance" is defined as how the car does what I want it to. My Gen1 delivers me great performance and I am absolutely certain that the NSX2 will perform just as well.

i'd have no qualms paying $200,000 or $250,000 for the NSX if it had the performance (value?) of the other cars.

If you only base the performance/value of a car by lap times, horsepower, 0-60, etc the NSX was a disappointment when it was released in 1991 and equally disappointing when it was re-released in 2017. In fact, you also probably can agree with the people who think that used NSXs are crazy overpriced for what you are getting. When I bought my NSX my brother looked at me like I had grown a second nose and commented - "why didn't just get a corvette? Its a lot faster for a lot less money". He didn't get what sort of "performance" I was looking for though and the NSX checked all of those boxes. I suspect the new one will be similar based on my conversations with Ted and other Acura folks. I also suspect that it will be received similar to the original. In fact, as I mentioned in a previous post I am surprised that it is selling even as well as it is. I expect it to be as much of a commercial failure as the original NSX. I also expect it to be as revered by the vehicle owners (the only real important judges) as our current Gen1s. If Acura manages to do that, they have done well IMO.

 

[MasterNSXTech]

http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2017-vehicle-dependability-study

By your signature, I can see why you'd be proud of Porsche's placing on this list

Good luck with that 911 when you're off warranty.

what say you about this?



Porsche tops reliability with Lexus? Merc and BMW also rated above Honda?! Acura in 23rd place?

if i'm not mistaken, Porsche is quite German... :biggrin:

Do you at least know enough about cars that Honda and Acura are pretty much the exact same thing? The reason Acura placed so much lower than Honda is because of our infuriatingly glitchy and complex infotainment system (which coincidentally enough, the new Acura NSX doesn't have...it got the system that's used in Hondas).the JD Power survey puts no weight on how much of a problem a car has. A problem is a problem. Be it a little rattle noise on the A-pillar from some trim piece on an Accord that gets fixed in a hour, or a pulled head bolt that results in a new AMG engine and the customer out of E63 for two weeks.

While somebody's Bluetooth dropping their call or not importing their phone book from time to time certainly is a pain in the ass, it's not a crippling problem. My shop averages 50-80 cars a day through it. I get maybe 5 cars a month come in on the back of a tow truck. And more than half are usually just because of a flat tire. There's an Audi dealer nearby. They do far less volume than me, yet they have far more tow trucks headed into that store. Same can be said for the Mercedes dealer down the street. Even a casual observer could form the conclusion that our car would be much more dependable than a German one. But I've been in the car business for quite awhile. I've worked on and driven just about everything out there. With this experience under my belt, there is absolutely no way that you'd ever convince me that any European brand is even in the same conversation as Honda/Acura or Toyota/Lexus when talking about reliability. And no way you'll convince any other experienced person that fixes cars of that either.

 

[Hothonda]

By your signature, I can see why you'd be proud of Porsche's placing on this list

Good luck with that 911 when you're off warranty.




Do you at least know enough about cars that Honda and Acura are pretty much the exact same thing? The reason Acura placed so much lower than Honda is because of our infuriatingly glitchy and complex infotainment system (which coincidentally enough, the new Acura NSX doesn't have...it got the system that's used in Hondas).the JD Power survey puts no weight on how much of a problem a car has. A problem is a problem. Be it a little rattle noise on the A-pillar from some trim piece on an Accord that gets fixed in a hour, or a pulled head bolt that results in a new AMG engine and the customer out of E63 for two weeks.

While somebody's Bluetooth dropping their call or not importing their phone book from time to time certainly is a pain in the ass, it's not a crippling problem. My shop averages 50-80 cars a day through it. I get maybe 5 cars a month come in on the back of a tow truck. And more than half are usually just because of a flat tire. There's an Audi dealer nearby. They do far less volume than me, yet they have far more tow trucks headed into that store. Same can be said for the Mercedes dealer down the street. Even a casual observer could form the conclusion that our car would be much more dependable than a German one. But I've been in the car business for quite awhile. I've worked on and driven just about everything out there. With this experience under my belt, there is absolutely no way that you'd ever convince me that any European brand is even in the same conversation as Honda/Acura or Toyota/Lexus when talking about reliability. And no way you'll convince any other experienced person that fixes cars of that either.

Owned 5 NSX's from new starting 1994.....how about you?

Nice try at deflection.......

BTW just purchased this in Feb '17 for my Wife. Moved from a '15 MDX

Long time Acura owners!

 

[MasterNSXTech]

Owned 5 NSX's from new starting 1994.....how about you?

Nice try at deflection.......

Wow. Speaking of deflection.

Worked on and driven hundreds of them in that time. From bone stock to caged race cars. I know them from stem to stern. Worked on and driven at least half a dozen of the new ones now too. Have you?

Do I need to own one to have a say here? I would think my decades of experience in the car business and the fact that I'm a dealer would be enough to matter. But hey, if I seriously need to own one to have any kind of validity in your eyes, I can simply slap a dealer plate on the NC1 I have in my showroom and take it home right now. Will that work for you?

 

[JD Cross]

Worked on and driven hundreds of them in that time. From bone stock to caged race cars. I know them from stem to stern. Worked on and driven at least half a dozen of the new ones now too. Have you?Do I need to own one to have a say here? I would think my decades of experience in the car business and the fact that I'm a dealer would be enough to matter. But hey, if I seriously need to own one to have any kind of validity in your eyes, I can simply slap a dealer plate on the NC1 I have in my showroom and take it home right now. Will that work for you?

Slow down fella.
First of all it's not your showroom.
You don't own it, you're an employee at a dealership so try saying "we" and "our" instead of "I" when speaking about where you work.
I've known Steve since we shared a road trip in 1999
Steve has been a long time NSX and Porsche owner and a respected member of this forum for a very long time.
While you may have wrenched on NSX's and driven a few, you're not doing yourself any favors with that attitude.

 

[MasterNSXTech]

Slow down fella.
First of all it's not your showroom.
You don't own it, you're an employee at a dealership so try saying "we" and "our" instead of "I" when speaking about where you work.
I've known Steve since we shared a road trip in 1999
Steve has been a long time NSX and Porsche owner and a respected member of this forum for a very long time.
While you may have wrenched on NSX's and driven a few, you're not doing yourself any favors with that attitude.

So he gets a pass for his "how about you?" slight because he's your buddy and has been here on this forum for 14 years? M'kay.

And I'm not kidding about taking the NC1 home. Read between the lines.

 

[JD Cross]

So he gets a pass for his "how about you?" slight because he's your buddy and has been here on this forum for 14 years? M'kay. And I'm not kidding about taking the NC1 home. Read between the lines.

No, you started it with a shot at Steve about his 911 warranty.
Don't blame him for responding to your barb in kind.

What's all this stuff about taking the NC1 home and reading between the lines?
What does that mean?

 

[MasterNSXTech]

No, you started it with a shot at Steve about his 911 warranty.
Don't blame him for responding to your barb in kind.

What's all this stuff about taking the NC1 home and reading between the lines?
What does that mean?

It means than I'm more than just a grease monkey at my store. And that's as much as I will ever publicly say.

 

[Hothonda]

MasterNSXTech......

I know where you're coming from in the reliability dept.

Negotiated a CPO warranty on my new TT (how they did it ???) till 2021 & 100K miles....plus
a 4 year PSMP (Porsche Scheduled Maintenance Program) which includes 4 yearly routine + a major at any
authorized dealer....both these follow the car if I sell it.

The '15 Turbo would not be one to own without a warranty, but has been trouble free with the exception of an
oil separator warranty recall in 15 months & 7K miles of ownership.

FWIW....My 2005 NSX required a new clutch at 1K miles - I think that bill was somewhere around $4K - covered of course.

Porsche has come a long way since my 1st in 2000 - puddle of oil on the garage floor at 50 miles
and continuing electrical gremlins.

That said... JD Power report does show how far they've come from the old days.

Peace....

Also....thanks Jim!

 

[JD Cross]

It means than I'm more than just a grease monkey at my store. And that's as much as I will ever publicly say.

If you are related to the owner, good for you.

Nothing is more ridiculous than to hear an employee running around a business using "I" this, and "I" that when all the employees know good businesses are made up of a team of people and "we" and "our" is more appropriate.

 

[MasterNSXTech]

If you are related to the owner, good for you.

Nothing is more ridiculous than to hear an employee running around a business using "I" this, and "I" that when all the employees know good businesses are made up of a team of people and "we" and "our" is more appropriate.

I agree and that is ridiculous. And that's not my situation.

 

[fastaussie]

i don't even own a 911, but once again, i'm not gonna sit here and discount every brand that isn't a Honda.

as to whether i know that Honda and Acura are the same? that's hilarious, says more about your knowledge than mine.

ridiculous is right, thanks for the good laugh! :biggrin:

 

[JD Cross]

I agree and that is ridiculous. And that's not my situation.

So is it "my" store or "our" store?

 

[liftcontrol]

MasterNSXTech......

I know where you're coming from in the reliability dept.

That said... JD Power report does show how far they've come from the old days.

Peace....

Also....thanks Jim!

Ultimate reliability differentials in two cars that both have well above reliability is no longer enough reason to pick one over the other.
Reasonable and good reliability is almost a given these days especially among some brands like Porsche, Lexus, Acura etc.

Porsche have attained a strong following and respect among enthusiasts and the general public for very good reason.

 

[docjohn]

Is Acura really serious about slapping that huge emblem on the nsx

 

[G.Irish]

While I wouldn't argue that a Huracan is going to be just as reliable as the NSX, the truth is that the delta in reliability and build quality is nowhere near as large as it was when the gen 1 NSX debuted. A Ferrari 488 is far and away better put together than a 348 or 355 was.

So the point is that reliability is not a huge advantage for the NSX anymore. The only significant gamble on reliability right now is McLaren.

 

[liftcontrol]

So the point is that reliability is not a huge advantage for the NSX anymore. The only significant gamble on reliability right now is McLaren.

Very true. Now more than ever, a "super car" has to win its colors based on its performance creds and "presence" and not just because it is as reliable as an Accord

 

[N Spec]

I'm going to have to agree with the reliability surveys being skewed. It's not the true reality with those metrics.

I would love to see high mileage Porches and Lambos being driven around like the first gen NSX, as practical sports cars are meant to be driven and enjoyed not just solely collected and viewed in a garage. Only time will tell if the newly complex NSX 2.0 will be just as reliable. Sans the emotors, I reckon it would be just as reliable... Only time shall tell.

 

[JD Cross]

Sans the emotors, I reckon it would be just as reliable... Only time shall tell.

Why would an electric motor be less reliable?

 

[N Spec]

Why would an electric motor be less reliable?

I'm not saying they are less or more. But when the time does come to replace them for whatever reason, I hope it's going to be closer to less expensive because the tech may become more mainstream with more trained and competitive technicians to service them properly.

 

[JD Cross]

I'm not saying they are less or more. But when the time does come to replace them for whatever reason, I hope it's going to be closer to less expensive because the tech may become more mainstream with more trained and competitive technicians to service them properly.

I thought you were talking about reliability rather than cost.
An electric motor is a pretty simple machine, much less complicated than an ICE or a transfer case/driveshaft/front differential.
No idea about replacement cost of a motor but would think the electronic controls would be the complicated/expensive part.
The NSX electric drive has an 8 year warranty.

 

[fastaussie]

While I wouldn't argue that a Huracan is going to be just as reliable as the NSX, the truth is that the delta in reliability and build quality is nowhere near as large as it was when the gen 1 NSX debuted. A Ferrari 488 is far and away better put together than a 348 or 355 was.

So the point is that reliability is not a huge advantage for the NSX anymore.

yep...

Very true. Now more than ever, a "super car" has to win its colors based on its performance creds and "presence" and not just because it is as reliable as an Accord

and bloody yep...

 

[MasterNSXTech]

I'm going to have to agree with the reliability surveys being skewed. It's not the true reality with those metrics.

I would love to see high mileage Porches and Lambos being driven around like the first gen NSX, as practical sports cars are meant to be driven and enjoyed not just solely collected and viewed in a garage. Only time will tell if the newly complex NSX 2.0 will be just as reliable. Sans the emotors, I reckon it would be just as reliable... Only time shall tell.

"Oh the older ones were terrible, but the new ones are much more reliable" is something I constantly hear from owners of newer high dollar European cars. Fact is, once they get the miles and time on them, the stereotype holds true. I know guys who have shops and they only specialize in Porsche or only specialize in Italian or something like that. Just about every car in their shops are massive money pits. There's a very good reason that expensive Mercedes or whatevers have decent resale value up to a certain amount of time and then the value falls off a cliff. Once any chance of warranty coverage is gone.

Honda has no problem calling the NSX an "everyday" supercar. I would seriously question the sanity of any salesperson at a Lamborghini store who would try to sell a new Huracan as a daily driver.

Honda has had an amazing track record of reliability when it comes to electrified powertrain. They've been doing it for a very long time now. The Prius may have really brought hybrids into the mainstream, but it was Honda's Insight that was really the first. It may be urban legend in American Honda, but it's been spouted by many sources there that they never ever had to replace a battery pack under warranty in any hybrid.

I'm not saying they are less or more. But when the time does come to replace them for whatever reason, I hope it's going to be closer to less expensive because the tech may become more mainstream with more trained and competitive technicians to service them properly.

Unfortunately, "trained and competitive" technicians are a dying breed. So it's a good thing our stuff is pretty reliable since getting competent people to fix it is getting harder and harder to do.

 

[nsx#fan]

"Oh the older ones were terrible, but the new ones are much more reliable" is something I constantly hear from owners of newer high dollar European cars. Fact is, once they get the miles and time on them, the stereotype holds true. I know guys who have shops and they only specialize in Porsche or only specialize in Italian or something like that. Just about every car in their shops are massive money pits. There's a very good reason that expensive Mercedes or whatevers have decent resale value up to a certain amount of time and then the value falls off a cliff. Once any chance of warranty coverage is gone.

Honda has no problem calling the NSX an "everyday" supercar. I would seriously question the sanity of any salesperson at a Lamborghini store who would try to sell a new Huracan as a daily driver.

Honda has had an amazing track record of reliability when it comes to electrified powertrain. They've been doing it for a very long time now. The Prius may have really brought hybrids into the mainstream, but it was Honda's Insight that was really the first. It may be urban legend in American Honda, but it's been spouted by many sources there that they never ever had to replace a battery pack under warranty in any hybrid.



Unfortunately, "trained and competitive" technicians are a dying breed. So it's a good thing our stuff is pretty reliable since getting competent people to fix it is getting harder and harder to do.

Wow... so much bullshit. I don't think even the most ardent NSX, Acura, Honda fanboys believe what you say. Anyways, keep drinking that kool-aid.