ABS, what to do now?

[N-Wing]

I've got 'the squeal'. I have read through the ABS information in the FAQ's and have had some converstation with members. I have 'excercised' the system pretty good but still after it sits for a while in the cold (sometimes only over night), I get the characteristic squeal. When I first purchased the car over a year ago, I did notice a slight amount of what I'm now assuming to be brake fluid under the pump on the ground. I have not seen this for over a year now though. So what are the next logical steps? I'm thinking I should take it too the dealer for a full flush of the systems ($200+). Does that sound right? Its really embarassing driving a car of this magnetude and having it squeal down the street for 30 seconds as if I were driving a beat up ride with 300k miles on it. My car currently has 106k on the other hand. Thoughts?

 

[drew]

You can buy the bleeder too for about $120 (there was one on ebay last week).

I have one that is supposed to be on loan free for the cost of shipping. But it has gotten "lost" a couple years back.

The whole process is very easy, I would NOT pay the dealer $200 for the labor.

**

You state "the pump runs for 30 seconds and stops".

Consistantly? Exactly 30 seconds?

Does the ABS light come on?

If no, does the ABS appear to work properly?

Drew
/my ABS modulator took a dump at 106K miles. I'm getting to be my own expert...

 

[NSXGMS]

You can buy the bleeder too for about $120 (there was one on ebay last week).

I have one that is supposed to be on loan free for the cost of shipping. But it has gotten "lost" a couple years back.

The whole process is very easy, I would NOT pay the dealer $200 for the labor.

**

You state "the pump runs for 30 seconds and stops".

Consistantly? Exactly 30 seconds?

Does the ABS light come on?

If no, does the ABS appear to work properly?

Drew
/my ABS modulator took a dump at 106K miles. I'm getting to be my own expert...

Yes, I have dealt with this myself, as drew has. His question about how long the pump runs is important though.

This is the most extensive thread on the subject on Prime that you may have already come across:http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46983&highlight=abs+solenoid

Pay close attention to Larry B's comments.

If your ABS light is coming on and/or you have detected a leak, it may be repairable on the car, even possibly electrical.

Anyway, your next steps, in order should be:

1) Flush system as thorughly as possible. Sometimes crud formed by non-use of the ABS can cause a solenoid to stick internally which a flush can free. As drew mentioned this is a shadetree job.

2) Excercise the ABS another couple of sessions after that. Really engage that ABS as much as possible at least 10 or so times per session. Make sure the ABS is engaging properly (pedal pulsing) and that the pump engages to re-pressurize after each stop, and then stops when full.

3) Take it to a mechanic to check for any unusual signs/leaks. Don't have them do any work or flush it again as long as you flushed it thoroughly the first time.

4) Get a new (used) ABS system. New ones run ~$2,000 so your best bet is to pick up a good working used unit. They can typically be found for $400-500 on Ebay or here on prime but you'll have to do some searching.

Believe me, I felt like a putz driving around with that pump running constantly and was the happiest guy alive when it was fixed. I know how irritating this can be.

Best of luck

 

[nis350]

Does the pump still run after replacement?

I would imagine it would be normal for the pump to run a bit after after a week or so???

 

[cfra7]

The NSX was my first ABS car and it isn't the best system in the world. For a 1991 it's a great system but compared to today's systems it's not that great. In fact, I probably won't buy another early car because of the ABS. When faced with expensive repairs I just pulled the fuse. No ABS, No noise, No expense. Still haven't hit anything yet....

 

[BadCarma]

I am not joking here so listen up. take her out to a big parking lot or empty road and run her hard and fast up to 7000 rpm's in first or second gear,I prefer second then step on the brakes hard as shit,works a great deal of the time if its a stuck solenoid.they do this at the dealerships.hope it helps.
Best Regards David

 

[drew]

How did you get the Anti-Lock and TCS lights to turn off??

My ABS will be down until I get time to R&R the modulator.

Drew

 

[cfra7]

My ABS light comes on but no issue with the TCS light.

 

[N-Wing]

Ok. I appreciate all the comments. I'm going to print the detailed post as well to go through it carefully.

Anwers to questions: The 30 seconds is not consistent. It could be 5 seconds or up to about 1 minute. It is usually 20 seconds I would say. It does happen until I pull out of the drive way. So when I start the car, it does not go off. Once I back up to the end of the drive way (50ft or so) and come to a stop, it either happens then or as soon as I take off. I never see the ABS light go on other than turn key. I do get a fair amount of TCS intervention while driving. I'm not sure if that would be related. I suppose its possible.

Its raining here in CT so I think I'm going to go down to the local parking lot and exercise the piss out of the system for starters. Then I'm going to look into getting that flushing tool. I'll go through that process and if I'm still having trouble, I'll continue on down the list. As usual, I'm very appreciative of the assistence. I'll see what I can come up with over the next couple days.

Thanks :smile:

 

[Larry Bastanza]

The car needs to be moving over 3 mph (IIRC) for the ABS system to activate, realize the pressure is low, then activate the pump to repressurize the system. Sounds like you may have a bad seal on your accumulator. Check closely for a brake fluid leak around the accumulator ball. You may want to spray some brakekleen around that area to make it clean and dry, the leak may be easier to spot. This does not sound like a stuck selonoid, so I would not be surprised if the "exercise" does not change anything.

If it were a stuck selonoid you would see bubbling in the ABS reservoir. It just sounds like the system is slowly loosing pressure. If my car sits for a while, maybe a month, my ABS pump will start and repressurize it, no big deal. Overnight, that sounds a little too frequent.

Also the 60K service call for you to change the ABS high pressure hose, not that I have seen a bad one, but as part of the service I always do it.

HTH,
LarryB

 

[drew]

How did you get the Anti-Lock and TCS lights to turn off??

Lucky me has some available time this weekend!

For those of you disabling the ABS system and want to shut down the pesky idiot light. You can do it!

Disconnect the orange connector that is behind the ABS system and underneath the brake master cylinder.
Next connect the terminals with a wire (jump, short, etc...).

Now the system will think that your ABS system is fully pressurized.

Drew

 

[nsxtasy]

I must be missing something here.

Isn't it normal for the ABS pump to run for 5-20 seconds when you first start the car when it's cold?

 

[Larry Bastanza]

My experience is no, it does not go on every time I start my car cold. The system should hold pressure for quite some time. Actually this season my car sat from October 2005 until last week, and my ABS pump did not activate, the pressure held all winter.

Regards,
LarryB

 

[Briank]

Reading this thread it seems like the only problem Madbox is having is a noisier then normal ALB pump. Just replace the pump

 

[Cal]

You can buy the bleeder too for about $120 (there was one on ebay last week).

I have one that is supposed to be on loan free for the cost of shipping. But it has gotten "lost" a couple years back.

Drew, I have your bleeder tool. I sent you a message a while back (last year). I'm in Colorado. I'll send it to whom ever wants it next or I can send it back to you. Let me know.

Cal

 

[N-Wing]

I do a thorough clean of the ABS area an look for small leaks. I know something leaked the first week I bought it as mentioned but I never saw it again. I pay close attention now. I did not make it out in the rain the other night as intended but I'll give it a run this week.

I could handle the re-pressurization once in a while if it weren't for the squealing pig wail it makes. Its like nails on chalk board. No good.

Thanks again for all the comments.

Mike

 

[cfra7]

Is there a year of NSX that doesn't have the screeming noise?

 

[N-Wing]

Update: So I took my car out in the rain (for the first time) to 'exercise' the system, and boy did I. I locked them up from about 60 MPH. It was enough of an exercise that the pump went on after the car stopped. I think the comments that there is a system leak rather than a motor problem is correct. I'm working on finding the leak now, but I thought of another question:

Why does the motor make that horrible sound? I'm guessing its a dry bearing or something. I have to believe that the motor should not make that retched squeal even if it is forced to operate more frequently. I think I have two problems, First the leak and second the motor. Thoughts?

By the way, since I was out in the rain for the first time I figured I might as well try kicking the back end around a bit with the TCS off (why not). That was nearly a fatal mistake. I've never driven a car that spun so hard. I planned on a gentle slide around the corner as I had done in my former 300ZX and Mustang without issue. WRONG: I nearly bought the farm. I flipped around 180 degrees nearly pissing myself as I almost went off a small embankment. I guess its due to the mid engine and the fact that I'm breaking loose much later than in front engine cars. I may make a special second rain run in a parking lot to give myself a bit of experence. My heart is still beating a bit. Close one.

 

[drew]

Why does the motor make that horrible sound? I'm guessing its a dry bearing or something. I have to believe that the motor should not make that retched squeal even if it is forced to operate more frequently.

The motor and the pump are discrete components. You can remove the motor for inspection. The motor drives the pump via an eccentric cam, the manual goes over this: try greasing it up.

The motor is held to the pump via 2 bolts and the motor held to the bracket via 3 bolts. If you relieve the pressure from the system you should be able to remove the motor from the pump without having to spill brake fluid.

A new motor+pump is about $350.

Drew

The TCS *does* keep the shine side up and between the ditches.