$3k to spend, Kw-V3s or Brembo GT front kit as my next upgrade?

S

skyline23

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hi Guys,

I know this is a very open ended question and depends on a lot of different factors and people will have different opinions, and I may not end up doing either, but I am in China for work right now and can't sleep due to jetlag, so wanted to throw this out there and see what responses come in:If you were me would your next upgrade be the Kw-V3s or upgrade the front brakes to Brembo Gran turismos...For those who have done both which do you think I would notice the most on the track?..both mods will cost me relatively the same amount,give or take a few hundred i think..(I confirmed my wheels would clear the brakes, so wouldn't have to go down the path of getting a whole new set of wheels too)

Some background..I use my car about once a week for work, and maybe about 10-15 track days a year, so its basicaly a weekend/track car now..it is a 91,has supercharger,intake,exhaust, koni yellows with eibach springs, and upgraded brake pads but oem sized rotors...

The way I see it, I already have upgraded suspension, so am leaning towards the brakes, however from everything I have read about the Kw-v3s it seems like it would still be a huge difference..And an argument for getting the Konis is that I assume I will appreciate the better ride off the track too, whereas I'm fine with the oem brakes on the street..then of course there is the little angel on my shoulder telling me to do neither,keep everything as is, and stop throwing money at a 22 year old car,but lets ignore him for the time being.

Anyway, just wanted to throw this question out there and see what people had to say..thanks in advance!
 
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Since you have a supercharger and some upgraded suspension already, the easy choice is Brembos. Long overdue!
 
KW's hands down. I track my car about every weekend and have found that the stock brakes with good pads, fluid and rotors are just fine for HPDE days. I removed my ABS, splash guards and got some brake ducting with the right combo of aggressive pads on NT01's I can out brake just about all cars that are running BBK's, the honda designers knew what they were doing here, plus you can get rotors for CHEAP (I have BBK on my daily driver, and not the track car -_:redface:_-) The KW's are the ticket, You'll be able to corner balance correctly with a decent set of coilovers and you will get gains in every corner.
 
I have to agree with the KW recommendation. You can set it up better, and lower your center of gravity more. And if you do brakes, just add $1000 to your budget and get the 4 wheel Stoptech kit which has a more favorable bias for the nsx and is just as good if not better than the brembo GT kit. If you get a front brembo kit and do nothing on the rear you are heavily moving the braking bias towards the front, and it will be far from optimum. You can make some adjustments via playing with pads and rotors but you will need to do that to balance the car out.

I think you will gain the most via suspension though, and the KW's will be a definite step up over the Koni/eibachs. The car will look better too at a more proper height and rake, something you can't achieve with the shock/spring setup. It will also cost you a grand less.
 
KW's all the way it's what i did and made a huge difference i am also about to go heavier in the front to change it up a bit for the track, i have also just upgreded to the 97+ brakes as it was a minor cost compared to a BBK (i needed new rotors anyway) and do the pads, fluid, heat shield, braided lines and your done.
 
Stoptechs front and rear. Then coilovers. Stoptechs are the single best thing I've done to my car. How adequate the stock brakes are largely depends on your driving style, the tracks you drive, etc. If you look at people's reactions to the stock brakes, they are all over the place from amazing to the weakest point on the car. You'll have add your own driving style into the analysis.
 
I would say brakes all the way. but I would recommend the AP kit SOS was selling. I had that on my car the last few years and noticed a huge difference in late braking and after recently removing them to sell to another member I was so sad to see the difference in how the car suits me. I ran a koni H&R kit which is far from the best setup but I was still able to gauge the cars weight shifting enough for my liking.
 
KW or getting an used set of comptech pros. lap times are archieved by entry/exit speed, more hp and more braking power will make you feels faster, not necessary on lap time.

Unless you already upgraded to 2 pieces rotors and dedicated track pads, you have not archieved oem brakes full-potential yet. It's true depending on your local track layout and climate. CA/AZ track rats swore by bbk upgrades. Not so much with the Northwest here.

Stoptech are very good investment yet it rarely a $5000 set up if you factor in the added wheels/tires combo. in my case, I had to get the DF fenders to clear them, even though it improves front grip but it's more like a by-product.

Give you idea: depends on how much you driving your wheels off your car, suspension upgrade generally gives 2 to 3 seconds; a lot more if you are still adjusting to the track and learning to trust your car.
BBK on the other hand, lucky to shave more than 1 second.
 
BBK is not needed its all bling. KW3 will get the car sitting proper and help performance instead of decreasing it like the BBK. Try a car with Upgraded pads and Brake lines Before you go wasting your money on a BBK.
 
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Not true at all. None of that post. BBK can reduce weight even if the rotor is larger due to utilizing 2 piece rotors vs heavy cast iron single piece rotors. Not to mention better caliper rigidity and weight, better bite and feel, more friction area, increased cooling, longer endurance, etc on top of the better looks. The stock brakes as they come on the car are just plain shitty, shitty brakes. Yes they can be improved without going to a BBK. If it makes you feel good to think a BBK is absolutely no better than that you can keep lying to yourself ;) I didn't even want a bbk till I drove a car with one and compared. Then it was a must have and totally worth every penny.
 
what tires and size are you using? What is your experience level? what pads/fluid do you use?Are the front heat shields on?
 
If your still having issues with your brakes after you upgrade the cooling pads lines and fluid then I can understand it. BBK is worth it only under the most extreme conditions. Conditions 95% of owners cars will never see. Are you having issues? You can only stop as well as your tires will allow you. 90% of the "feel" associated with the BBK comes from getting rid of the old spongy rubber lines.
 
DRIFTER said:
BBK is not needed its all bling. KW3 will get the car sitting proper and help performance instead of decreasing it like the BBK. Try a car with Upgraded pads and Brake lines Before you go wasting your money on a BBK.
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Eeeps! While the answer here is clearly to buy suspension first a proper set of bbk is not just bling. I will agree the benefits isn't very apparent on paper.

for the guys like me who can't spend every wknd at the track a proper bbk is a lot more confident inspiring and just simply makes the car feel more like a modern super car.

Now for the track rats I will argue the long term benefits in savings from worn pads and rotors is much better with bbks as well. I'm shocked at how little my bbk pads are wearing.
 
Agreed. That's all I was pointing out, it is not a total waste of money for bling and there is a performance gap so large it is noticeable. I had project mu 2 slotted piece rotors with hawk pads and SS brake lines though I was still using the splash shields. I had an RX8 w stock brakes before and it was embarrassing how much better the brakes were than my NSX. I'm not the only one to acknowledge its stock brakes are cheap and terrible... Many people think they really skimped on the brakes and it is the cars biggest weak point. Suspension may make you faster than a bbk on the track but I would still get a bbk just bc of the disparity in quality vs stock parts. Just my two cents-
 
I strongly disagree the Stock brake performance being sub-par. In fact, Oem with 20 yrs old rubber line and maybe some off brand oem size rotors may be.
oem size 2 pieces rotors with reputable pads outbrakes many oem BBK equipped cars.

many people think nsx brakes are bad due to the fact that it has a relatively stronger/harder pedal feel yet when that pairs with sub-par street pads; they think the caliper didn't do its job.

Again, I'm not saying the BBK is no useful, or else I won't go through new wheels (and the fitment/rubbing headache) and even new fenders just for the stoptech. I however seen so many people have BBK and in fact the brakes work so well they overslowing their cars! Well then of cuz they will blame the car being underpowered as it wouldn't keep up at the corner exit.

My car did gain 2 seconds with my stoptech BBK. However, it didn't happen until my 3rd day tracking it. (This is a track that I been there for many times. 40+) In fact, I found myself needed to adjust my driving style, in the first couple sessions, I'm pulling same or even slower lap times than my previous best. With the extra braking power, I could do later braking, however braking from 140+ and keeping the entry speed is challenging.

OP tracks more often than me, so I just wanted to point out how i see from the track performace perspective.

For Street driving, the BBK gives me more problems if there's any advantage.
 
People still think KW V3 even though he's got a supercharger and upgraded suspension already? Ah well, let us know what you decide OP!
 
What tires are you running? If you don't have something sticky, then a BBK won't do you much good..

Found this quote in another tread..
ryneen said:
For the first few years of tracking my car, I ran the stock size rotors front and rear along with stainless steel brake lines, Motul 600 fluid, Carbotech XP10 pads and Dali brake ducting. This setup never faded even when driving hard. I upgraded to the Brembo Gran Turismo BBK and my laptimes were not really any faster. However, my rotors would last almost an entire year as opposed to about 3-4 weekends with the stock size rotors. I hope this answers your question.
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- - - Updated - - -

Nero Tenebre said:
Not true at all. None of that post. BBK can reduce weight even if the rotor is larger due to utilizing 2 piece rotors vs heavy cast iron single piece rotors. Not to mention better caliper rigidity and weight, better bite and feel, more friction area, increased cooling, longer endurance, etc on top of the better looks. The stock brakes as they come on the car are just plain shitty, shitty brakes. Yes they can be improved without going to a BBK. If it makes you feel good to think a BBK is absolutely no better than that you can keep lying to yourself ;) I didn't even want a bbk till I drove a car with one and compared. Then it was a must have and totally worth every penny.
Click to expand...

I'd have to disagree with Nero on this one. Stock brakes are actually pretty good. Lots of NSX owners track with the stock brakes, just ask nsxtasy.

Lots of good info here that could save you a lot of money:
http://daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=1929#FAQ2
 
Both are tasty upgrades.
But do the kw's
I had the koni/Eibach on a former car. No comparison.
 
yeah do both. Tasty. I did both. It was yummy. Now my suspension and brakes both squeak just like a proper race car.
 
http://www.1017.org/nsx/BrakeMods/index.html

There's some real data there to help you decide OP. Keep in mind you do have a supercharger so you are already going much faster than a stock NSX. I still notice I have a BBK every time I step on the pedal though many do track with the stock or upgraded stock brakes and seem to do just fine. Keep in mind that even the factory decided to upgrade the brakes in 97 so they must not be that great since it was only a 20hp (not even wheel HP) bump in power. Supposedly the 97+ are much better so you might even look at picking those up used. There are also 2-piece rotors available that fit the stock caliper (yes I have a set for sale) which can help you add cooling and more importantly lose weight, for lower cost than BBK. Best advice is probably to do the brake pads/cooling without a BBK first and see if you like it since it's so cheap, and get the KW V3 too. You can find discounts on eBay and through vendors for the V3 and still have enough to do the upgrades to rotors/pads/cooling for $3k-- so there you have it.
 
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KW's. If you run street tires, the limiting point is the tire grip. Unless you are runing R/slick tires and have already been able to delay your braking points to reach the limit of the stopping power of the stock brakes, there will be no gain getting a BBK.
 
asylum said:
KW's. If you run street tires, the limiting point is the tire grip. Unless you are runing R/slick tires and have already been able to delay your braking points to reach the limit of the stopping power of the stock brakes, there will be no gain getting a BBK.
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I agree.
For a mostly street car, the bbk is mostly for the "bling" factor. Which isnt bad at all if you have the extra "ching" to spend lol.

Skyline15, what tires are you running?
 
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