MvM, I pointed out that too. Not bias but maybe experience. I would imagine that most of the frequent track visitor here on Prime would post better than time with the NSX than with the Murcielago. The BMI drivers alomst test "some" NSX monthly...
2002 NSX-R vs. Supersonic Beasts!
- Thread starter Zanardi 50
- Start date
- Joined
- 23 January 2001
- Messages
- 1,809
Are you able to make out who the drivers for each car are?
-Ben
-Ben
Originally posted by RyRy210:
I pre-ordered the video before it came out. The results are:
1)Ferrari F50
Best Time = 1'38"573
Total Time = 5'02"029
2)Porsche 911 GT2
Best Time = 1'38"938
Total Time = 5'03"880
3)Lamborghini Murcielago
Best Time = 1'39"834
Total Time = 5'08"307
4)Honda NSX-R
Best Time = 1'40"265
Total Time = 5'08"577
5)Gemballa Biturbo GT500
Best Time = 1'40"571
Total Time = 5'10"087
6)Porsche 911 Carrera 4S
Best Time = 1'44"141
Total Time = 5'23"166
http://www.bestmotoring.jp/backnumber/bm/in_2002_12.html
The NSX-R was leading the Murcielago almost all the way until the last straightaway where it overtook the NSX-R at the very last minute to capture 3rd place.
Pole sitter --Driving the Ferrari F50 (1'38"604 fastest qualifying lap):
Naoki Hattori-- an ex-motorbike racer who once raced in F-1 as spot driver. Very colorful racing career. Also known for his ability to go fast in any car.
2nd -- in Porsche GT2 (best qualifying time 1'39"788):
Akihiko Nakaya - reknown for his uncanny technical analysis on driving techniques and expertise in P-cars. His daily driver (and his fave road car) is, but of course, a Porsche.
3rd -- in Lambo Murcielago (best qualifier 1'39"795):
Takuya Kurosawa (aka Gan San jr.) ex-F 3000 and Japan F3 champ. Raced in FedEx CART Series in 2000. Very colorful career. Currently racing in GT500 of JGTC Series.
[This message has been edited by Zanardi 50 (edited 03 December 2002).]
Naoki Hattori-- an ex-motorbike racer who once raced in F-1 as spot driver. Very colorful racing career. Also known for his ability to go fast in any car.
2nd -- in Porsche GT2 (best qualifying time 1'39"788):
Akihiko Nakaya - reknown for his uncanny technical analysis on driving techniques and expertise in P-cars. His daily driver (and his fave road car) is, but of course, a Porsche.
3rd -- in Lambo Murcielago (best qualifier 1'39"795):
Takuya Kurosawa (aka Gan San jr.) ex-F 3000 and Japan F3 champ. Raced in FedEx CART Series in 2000. Very colorful career. Currently racing in GT500 of JGTC Series.
[This message has been edited by Zanardi 50 (edited 03 December 2002).]
4th -- in NSX-R (best qualifier 1'40"561):
Motoharu Kurosawa, aka Gan-San. He's arguably the most experienced (and perhaps the best) driver in the bunch. Was once offered a seat in a F-1 car, but a controversial race that resulted in the death of another race car driver shut his door to F-1 indefinitely. Since then retired from pro racing scene and currently work as a consultant for Bridgestone and full-time reviewer of BM video.
5th -- in Gemballa Porsche Biturbo GT500 (qualifying best 1'42"186):
Shinichi Katsura -- guest driver to BM. No career stats found in JGTC and BM archives. Formula Nippon driver? Will do an extensive search on this guy.
6th -- in Porsche Carrera 4S (qualifying best 1'43"390):
Ryu Michigami -- guest reviewer to BM who, along with another co-driver by the name of Daisuke Ito, recently won this year's JGTC GT500 team championship piloting the Mugen NSX.
More info on the regular BM reviewers can be found here: http://www.bestmotoringvideo.com/reviewers.html
[This message has been edited by Zanardi 50 (edited 03 December 2002).]
Motoharu Kurosawa, aka Gan-San. He's arguably the most experienced (and perhaps the best) driver in the bunch. Was once offered a seat in a F-1 car, but a controversial race that resulted in the death of another race car driver shut his door to F-1 indefinitely. Since then retired from pro racing scene and currently work as a consultant for Bridgestone and full-time reviewer of BM video.
5th -- in Gemballa Porsche Biturbo GT500 (qualifying best 1'42"186):
Shinichi Katsura -- guest driver to BM. No career stats found in JGTC and BM archives. Formula Nippon driver? Will do an extensive search on this guy.
6th -- in Porsche Carrera 4S (qualifying best 1'43"390):
Ryu Michigami -- guest reviewer to BM who, along with another co-driver by the name of Daisuke Ito, recently won this year's JGTC GT500 team championship piloting the Mugen NSX.
More info on the regular BM reviewers can be found here: http://www.bestmotoringvideo.com/reviewers.html
[This message has been edited by Zanardi 50 (edited 03 December 2002).]
Ok, it seems the Porsche GT2 got the correct driver for that car! As speculated the NSX got the most expert/best one. The only flaw I see is giving the Gemballa (this carshould be on pair with the GT2 from what several magazinbe tested before!) a unexperienced driver.
- Joined
- 26 May 2002
- Messages
- 83
There's no way NSX-R can beat GT2 or F50 even if its supercharge w/500hp. 200 more hp will only improve the total time about 2-3 sec at the most. In order for NSX to hang w/them, it also needs better suspension and braking system.
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Super Xenon
The NSX-R "DID" hang with them and it was because of its handling and amazing cornering speed. I don't know how you can say it needs a better suspension.
Are you sure? You seem very biased against the NSX.
As RyRy stated, the NSX *DID* hang with the F50 and GT2. In fact, their best-lap time differences were indeed less than two seconds.
As such, a supercharged NSX-R with its *current* suspension / brake systems may just cross the finish line ahead of all the European exotics - much to the surprise and dismay of naysayers such as yourself.
ALLAN
Suspended
I have this video on order and should be here shortly. Judging from what ive seen of the video, my first impression is that the f50 is not stock. It also looks like the guy driving the murcielago was sleeping during the rolling start as every car seems to get a jump on it. I also agree that they'd be biased towards the Nsx, as they test them all the time. No doubt that the Nsx-r is a killer car though, but in a straightline race, it would get beaten by any of those cars.
And this only makes the NSX-R's on-track performance that much more impressive considering its vast hp deficiency relative to the others.
I got a copy of it for $4 US from a friend who bought it in Hong Kong for me last week. You can buy it for around $12US in the states if you go to any chinatown and find the Hong Kong version.
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'98 Blue NSX-T
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'98 Blue NSX-T
I wouldn't say Kurosawa(gan-san, not his son) is the "best" driver of the bunch. The guy is probably over 60 and haven't been in a real race for a long time(not saying old guys can't drive, but certainly Kurosawa is not in his prime). But he is the most senior of all the BM drivers, there fore he always gets to drive the best cars, or the NSX since he is an owner and a big fan.
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George W
Porsche 996 for sale!
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George W
Porsche 996 for sale!
Very impressed with the performance, but wish we can have it in the US.
[This message has been edited by ENDLESS DREAMS (edited 04 December 2002).]
[This message has been edited by ENDLESS DREAMS (edited 04 December 2002).]
I just received a Japanese version DVD of the BM with the NSX-R.
And yes, I think too that Honda could sell the NSX-R outside Japan as well. There is just one in Europe and I think almost every major car-magazine or car-program has had it covered.
It would be nice though to see the NSX-R pitted against its competition by non-Japanese drivers on the Nurnburgring for example. I would be very interested in the results.
And yes, I think too that Honda could sell the NSX-R outside Japan as well. There is just one in Europe and I think almost every major car-magazine or car-program has had it covered.
It would be nice though to see the NSX-R pitted against its competition by non-Japanese drivers on the Nurnburgring for example. I would be very interested in the results.
MvM actually they tested it in the Nürburgring/Nordschleife with a professional driver and the time was ok but not that good.
You can find the test here: http://www.macs.ch/homepages/david/New_Pages/Gallery17.html
The page do not come up here right now, but it was 8:09 for the best lap.
As a comparison, the 2002 911 (320ps) did it in 8:17 minutes the same day.
Other interesting times with road legal cars:
Absolute 1. is a Gemballa Biturbo 600ps (similar to teh one used by BMI) and did 7:32!
2. TechArt 996 GT2 Porsche 620 ps 7:43
...
4. Pagani Zonda 7:44
6. Toyota Supra Blitz 650 ps 7:49
8. Lambo Murcielago 7:52
10. Catheram R500 7:55
11. Porsche GT3 and Porsche TT 7:56
... Diablo 8:04 ... Ferrari 550 8:07 ...
---> Fearrari 360 8:09, same as the NSX-R and the "old" 911-993 GT2!
FYI Lotus Espirit Sport 350 did it in 8:13
1997 NSX does it in 8:33
You can find the test here: http://www.macs.ch/homepages/david/New_Pages/Gallery17.html
The page do not come up here right now, but it was 8:09 for the best lap.
As a comparison, the 2002 911 (320ps) did it in 8:17 minutes the same day.
Other interesting times with road legal cars:
Absolute 1. is a Gemballa Biturbo 600ps (similar to teh one used by BMI) and did 7:32!
2. TechArt 996 GT2 Porsche 620 ps 7:43
...
4. Pagani Zonda 7:44
6. Toyota Supra Blitz 650 ps 7:49
8. Lambo Murcielago 7:52
10. Catheram R500 7:55
11. Porsche GT3 and Porsche TT 7:56
... Diablo 8:04 ... Ferrari 550 8:07 ...
---> Fearrari 360 8:09, same as the NSX-R and the "old" 911-993 GT2!
FYI Lotus Espirit Sport 350 did it in 8:13
1997 NSX does it in 8:33
Gheba,
I have the article on the NSX-R from SportAuto that you mention. I also remember reading that someone else did the Ring in 7:50 in the same car. Since DeeWee is already running 8.01 in his (modified) NSX and the NSX-R is probably even better I think if would be nice to see a similar test of the new NSX and/or NSX-R together with similar cars in the same style/fashion as BM.
The NSX has always been more about balance than about the blunt application of brute force. If that's what one wants, then please let them go for the Gemballa type of cars. Sort of the surgeon's versus butcher's approach.
Especially in Europe there is a trend of putting big engines (with turbo) in standard cars to make them fast, like the Audi RS6, the SL55AMG and now the new Volvo's. I am not sure I like this trend, it has nothing to do with the way Honda has managed to maximised performance of the NSX-R.
I remember an article on the old NSX-R which mentioned that it was putting in quicker laptimes than the best time of the then new model 911 Turbo with Porsche's own test-driver (which definitely had more HP).
I have the article on the NSX-R from SportAuto that you mention. I also remember reading that someone else did the Ring in 7:50 in the same car. Since DeeWee is already running 8.01 in his (modified) NSX and the NSX-R is probably even better I think if would be nice to see a similar test of the new NSX and/or NSX-R together with similar cars in the same style/fashion as BM.
The NSX has always been more about balance than about the blunt application of brute force. If that's what one wants, then please let them go for the Gemballa type of cars. Sort of the surgeon's versus butcher's approach.
Especially in Europe there is a trend of putting big engines (with turbo) in standard cars to make them fast, like the Audi RS6, the SL55AMG and now the new Volvo's. I am not sure I like this trend, it has nothing to do with the way Honda has managed to maximised performance of the NSX-R.
I remember an article on the old NSX-R which mentioned that it was putting in quicker laptimes than the best time of the then new model 911 Turbo with Porsche's own test-driver (which definitely had more HP).
Doing the Ring in 7:50?
That would be good but I tried to search for it without any success. The only measured time I came by was that one... I still doubt that is possible on the NSX-R but I would be happy to see the demonstration!
That would be good but I tried to search for it without any success. The only measured time I came by was that one... I still doubt that is possible on the NSX-R but I would be happy to see the demonstration!
ALLAN
Suspended
I try to keep up to date on the lap times at the ring, and have never heard of the Nsx coming close to a 7:50 time.
Guys,
Found the link where the 7:50 time is mentioned. It's my old link on the same NSX-R article Gheba is referring to. There is also DeeWee with his 8.01 time on his own modified NSX. http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/005643.html
Found the link where the 7:50 time is mentioned. It's my old link on the same NSX-R article Gheba is referring to. There is also DeeWee with his 8.01 time on his own modified NSX. http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/005643.html
Sorry but a post on NSXPrime is still not a proof for a lap time!
Anyway, did somebody see the BMI mentioned in that topic?
Anyway, did somebody see the BMI mentioned in that topic?
Gheba,
I agree that it isn't proof of a laptime but I was mentioning it from memory at first. And I am just as curious about the BM-video mentioned in that link.
As far as laptimes are concerned, the Ferrari 575M did 8.05 on the NRing in the same magazine versus the Murcielago 7:50. In that respect the NSX-R as tested by SportAuto did perform very similar even when it has only half the power of these two cars.
I agree that it isn't proof of a laptime but I was mentioning it from memory at first. And I am just as curious about the BM-video mentioned in that link.
As far as laptimes are concerned, the Ferrari 575M did 8.05 on the NRing in the same magazine versus the Murcielago 7:50. In that respect the NSX-R as tested by SportAuto did perform very similar even when it has only half the power of these two cars.
I agree, very similar to the Maranello (575M) but quite far from the Murcielago! The Lambo's 7:50 is 20 seconds faster than the NSX-R.
As said the NSX-R has about the same time as the Modena and only a few second slower than teh Maranello and this is already a great achievement and a big (and nice) surprise.
As said the NSX-R has about the same time as the Modena and only a few second slower than teh Maranello and this is already a great achievement and a big (and nice) surprise.
I read about the test of the NSX-R on the ring, and they were hoping to break 8 minutes, but missed by 3 sec. totaling 8.03.
They said they had some trouble during the run (can't remember what) and that was the reason they didn't break the 8 minute barrier. Still good I think.
They said they had some trouble during the run (can't remember what) and that was the reason they didn't break the 8 minute barrier. Still good I think.
Actually, Gan-San of BestMotoring fame tracked the new NSX-R in 7 min. 56 seconds. I have a videotaped copy of this, as it is sold as a 1 hour special review (In Japanese dialogue). BM crew mounted the videocam behind the driver on the rear firewall (you know, the usual setup that had this clear view of the track), with digital clock superimposed on the lower left corner of the screen that starts counting as Gan-San takes off from the starting/finish line and stops as he crosses it after one full lap. I don't know why this time wasn't on the NurburgRing website?
Same goes for past lap times set by Gan-San in the NSX:
1990--NSX coupe: 8'16"
1992--NSX-R 1992 1st gen: 8'03"
1997--NSX-S-Zero 8'10"
The only lap times with the NSX on that website only shows the NSX lap times of a car magazine writer by the name of Horst Von Saurma (writes for SportAuto I believe). His was a good 20 sec.'s slower than Gan-San's times across the board. Why is that?
Gan-San/BM's tests were done with videocam visually capturing the entire race, and with the clock ticking away. On the other hand, we don't know what kind of visual (or any) proof Von Saurma has for his tests with the NSX's. I also noticed the lap times posted with Japanese cars there at the Ring is always significantly slower, esp. when Von Saurma tests them. Could there be some kind of conspiracy going on?
Makes me wonder.....
[This message has been edited by Zanardi 50 (edited 05 December 2002).]
Same goes for past lap times set by Gan-San in the NSX:
1990--NSX coupe: 8'16"
1992--NSX-R 1992 1st gen: 8'03"
1997--NSX-S-Zero 8'10"
The only lap times with the NSX on that website only shows the NSX lap times of a car magazine writer by the name of Horst Von Saurma (writes for SportAuto I believe). His was a good 20 sec.'s slower than Gan-San's times across the board. Why is that?
Gan-San/BM's tests were done with videocam visually capturing the entire race, and with the clock ticking away. On the other hand, we don't know what kind of visual (or any) proof Von Saurma has for his tests with the NSX's. I also noticed the lap times posted with Japanese cars there at the Ring is always significantly slower, esp. when Von Saurma tests them. Could there be some kind of conspiracy going on?
Makes me wonder.....
[This message has been edited by Zanardi 50 (edited 05 December 2002).]
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