Will it get to 10 views?

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Sorry to trick you into opening this thread, but if I had stated the real title, something like “Champ Car last rites”, it would not have gotten to 10 views except for maybe a few post addicts like Steveny asking “what’s Champ Car?” Anyway, with the sorry state of affairs and what could be the final blow, I thought I would officially sign off as a Champ Car fan now and not watch as this once proud series finally slips beneath the waves of public interest. :frown:

R.I.P Champ Car/CART/IndyCar, it was fun while it lasted.
 
Holy crap! I'm glad I read this post. God knows the rest of the media could care less on this topic.

Well, the writing has been on the wall for some time now. Honestly, I hope the whole program crumbles into the ground if only to teach a valuable lesson to rich-Dicks who think they want to play Race Car Driver. IMO, the entire open wheel division in the U.S. needs to disappear in order to be reborn with the appropriate format built in. Kind of like bulldozing a house to build something far better.

So is Robin going to put on a dress and sing a song for Champ Car? :D
 
I would rather Champcar dies than join that loser Tony George the idiot arogant grandson. FTG. I think the only way open wheel will ride out the storm is with what they have done (At leat at Road America) by combining Champcar, ALMS, Atlantics, Spec Miata, Barber Pro, Drifting, Go-carts, Import car show, etc etc all in one weekend.

It was a success, and they are doing it again in 08.

Tony needs to run ovals only to survive, and Champcar needs to run road courses only to survive. We all know that the two will never join like before.

If they both do die, it will only bring more attention to the other great series, ALMS, SCCA, World Challenge, DTM, BTCC, WRC etc etc.

Open wheel racing would be awesome today if TG along with sell-outs (Penske, Chip, Rahal, AGR etc) did not screw it up. If they would have collectively got together and tried to fix CART, they would have prevented FTG from even getting IRL off the ground. By IRL starting, it deminished Champcar, but yet never amounted to anything due to FTG talking out of both sides of his mouth. "only american drivers, only ovals, only american cars/engines, only american tracks" Yeah right.

I still have hope/faith
 
Re: Maybe it's time..........

Rumor has it that FTG has offered

1. Free Dallara chassis.
2. Free Honda engines.
3. Long Beach, Toronto, Edmonton, Mexico City and Australia be absorbed into the 2008 IndyCar schedule.

{muttering to self} Sounds substantial........Good news, bad news or no news?

{yawn}....I just got around to reading Miller's Speed Report and judging from the quotes from the CC faithful; Carl Haas, Jimmy Vasser, Derrick Walker, those guys are going over to the dark side with or without the Champ Car Amigos. Since no news has been bad news for the past umpteen years, any change at this point is, by default, good news.
 
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I would rather Champcar dies than join that loser Tony George the idiot arogant grandson.

Open wheel racing would be awesome today if TG along with sell-outs (Penske, Chip, Rahal, AGR etc) did not screw it up. If they would have collectively got together and tried to fix CART, they would have prevented FTG from even getting IRL off the ground. By IRL starting, it deminished Champcar, but yet never amounted to anything due to FTG talking out of both sides of his mouth. "only american drivers, only ovals, only american cars/engines, only american tracks" Yeah right.

I still have hope/faith

+1

Tony George has always been the Antichrist of open wheel racing. unfortunately he carries a big stick. And when you can fund a loosing series until you've driven the other series out, CART really didn't have a chance. But I still don't watch it, (ok, maybe Danica when no one's home), and I sure won't pay to see it. And I still feel kinda dirty that I went to an F1 race there.
 
People just need to get over the Tony George thing. Whats more important to you, having an open wheel series based in the US or pissing in TG's cereal? The split was what, over a decade ago? If you want to see big time open wheel racing in this country you should be supporting the IRL. I seriously doubt Champ Car is ever going to be what it once was, nobody cares.
 
People just need to get over the Tony George thing
That's tough to do but necessary. I’ve said it before and been hated on for it, but it's nothing personal; it’s just business; it’s not about pure racing the way we would like it to be. And CC, with all it’s fine people, ambitions and brilliant “racing in the streets” plans couldn’t pull off the marketing and profitability side of the show. It’s obviously tough to be profitable in a rapidly changing world where there is so much competition for the public’s entertainment dollar.

FTG realized that to survive he would have to quietly abandon his “lofty" ambitions and plans of American drivers in American equipment on good ole American ovals. So that’s what he did and apparently he is going to be the last man standing in American formula car racing. We know Roger Penske, Bobby Rahal and them don’t really like FTG just as F-1 owners don’t necessarily like Bernie, but the Golden Rule still prevails; he who has the gold, rules.
 
Re: One year or 2?

If anyone cares, I'll post the links, but it looks today like the last of the CC diehard team owners are packing their bags to hop over the fence to where there is at least enough money to run a team.

And sadly, but understandably, the Amigos will indeed go down with the ship. It will essentially be over in 2 years if not one.

Hey, I don't like this any more than anyone else, I'm just trying to be realistic and cushion the blow. File it under "life ain't fair."
 
Re: One year or 2?

If anyone cares, I'll post the links, but it looks today like the last of the CC diehard team owners are packing their bags to hop over the fence to where there is at least enough money to run a team.

I care. Link please.

I lost all my good underground racing sites when my computer died.


ESPN is so far behind, I just found out that Eddie Jordan sold his team. :smile:
 
Re: Fun crap

I lost all my good underground racing sites when my computer died.
Shawn has most of the real information websites covered in the first post of the F-1 2008 Megathread. The only serious one missing is the F-1 FIA website.

For more underground (fun) sites where plausible rumors are thrown out there to tittilate, I check:
Paddock talk and their forums
FakeFerrari News :biggrin:

For CC specific news/rumor that also includes other series:
Off Camber
Champ Car Fanatics (these guys are incestuously nuts) :eek:
And Robin Miller has been brutally accurate lately on the Speed TV website.

For Honda F-1 specific, these guys are pretty good.
 
I would rather Champcar dies than join that loser Tony George the idiot arogant grandson.

<golf clap> Should I ever meet you in person, your beers are on me.

I'm sorry. But to remain indifferent to that jacktard's (TG's) prior actions is beyond my realm of self-control.

Count me in on pissing in his cereal. Twice.
 
Re: Full Circle?

Over the past 3 or 4 years I've had conversations with almost all of the car owners and team directors. I've had talks with drivers, with sanctioning body directors, with track owners and promoters and big sponsors and fans and other interested parties. Generally there is agreement that something is wrong with our sport -—it is not reaching its full potential by any means, and there is great need for a change!

Dan Gurney 1978

The White Paper
 
Champ car, CART, (whatever) you want to call it had problems way before Tony George came along. 10 or 12 owners tried to run the series by consensus just never worked. When Andrew Craig pretty much said piss on the american fan, we're going to be the next F1, having one series was doomed and the IRL was formed. When Chip Ganassi guaranteed the IRL would fold in 2 years, the sport was doomed. When the tobacco settlement limited advertising to 1 "league" one series was doomed.

Ask anybody (John Q Public) to name 1 race in the world, and more people will say the Indy 500 than even the Daytona 500. If you want to sell your product don't advertise during the race at the fairgrounds. Advertise during the Super Bowl or the Daytona 500 (used to be Indy 500). Even Penske, Rahal, Fernandez and Ganassi figured this out and jumped ship.

ALMS and Grand Am are in the same quagmire. But the France family owns the 24 hours of Daytona and ALMS doesn't. At least road racing is still enough of a niche that nobody cares.

I used to be an open wheel fan, more champ than IRL, but now I barely watch either. Would anybody watch football, basketball or baseball if the schedule changes every year, sometimes the games are every other day, sometimes every week; then takes 6 weeks off in the middle of the season, and the teams moves cities every year?

The king is dead! Long live the queen!

Miner
Ps. I'm no fan of TG, but he is only half of the divorce.
 
Champ car, CART, (whatever) you want to call it had problems way before Tony George came along.


Financially yes. Venues, and attendance No.

I grew up with CART from 1971 to the end. I never had a better overall experience with the whole package. Not just the headlining CART race Sunday afternoon, but all of the practices, qualifying, support races etc. Drivers were the easiest (of all racing series) to interact with. (Many stories in the hotels, bars, restaurants, rollerblading, walking, running or biking in the paddock on thurs etc) Then the revenue became stagnant with increasing costs, thus financial issues. When CCWS bought CART, they not only saved the series, they interjected HUGE cost savings measures, made the logos, clothing etc more hip. They held "townhall meetings" with the fans. etc.

IF FTG would not have even started the IRL, I truely believe that Champcar would be an equal to NASCRAP in the US, and another international option as well. BUT He said the famous hammer-nail-coffin crap and lied to EVERYONE about what he was up to. He brainwashed the US sponsors, and the key Champcar owners sold out to follow the sponsor money instead of riding it out. If they would have stuck out the storm, IRL would have been dead after 3 years. With many owners jumping ship, and all of the BS he spewed, it brought both series to a lull.

I don't care what anyone says, FTG single handedly destroyed decades of top notch open wheeled racing in this great country. He alone has left a bad taste in EVERY ones mouth, that will take decades to cure. Anyone who actually believes in FTG's "vision" I have a few mountains to sell you here in WI. It is sad that the sponsers believed his crap about american this and american that, and the Indy 500. I can partially understand their position, because it was a few years of struggle with the end of CART and the start of new ownership, and FTG just took advantage of the timing. I just wish that they (Sponsors, Engine suppliers) would have jumped ship back after they they realized that the Indy 500 was a dud, and the series was even worse in the IRL. Honda realized this almost immediately, and so did GM and Toyota. It probably hurt Champcar that Cosworth was owned by Champcar, otherwise the Engine suppliers may have came back.

No matter what happens in the short term, FTG will always be the one who destroyed the machine by throwing his hammer and nails into it.

I am just glad that I have other grassroots racing events in the US to keep my mind pure.

With all of the money controlling and destroying racing in the world, do yourself a favor, and attend some NASA or SCCA events at your home track. You will learn quick what racing was meant to look like.

Have a great year!
:tongue:
 
Re: One year or 2?

File it under "life ain't fair."

Yes, sadly "fairness" is just another word in the dictionary.

I used to love Champ Car, I even got invited to a closed practice session with all the teams at Laguna Seca. Saw Montoya, even had Helio sign my Skip Barber shirt (before he won the Indy 500!) But the homologation of engines and "push to pass" is just like watching kids in single-speed indoor carting. Boring.

I loved it then, but it'll never be the same. :frown:
 
Financially yes. Venues, and attendance No.

I grew up with CART from 1971 to the end.:tongue:

The financial wreck was due to the management by consensus of the team owners. CART was founded because the team owners couldn't get along with the USAC.

Venues, I disagree because CART doesn't have the Indianapolis 500.

I won't get into the discussion about whether TG is the devil or not, nor that IRL or NASCAR is or isn't racing.

The IRL has offered to pay CCWS' bill to come racing, bringing the "Best of the rest" venues and CCWS says no. Its like your drowning, the school bully throws you a lifeline and you refuse to grab the line. Even Steve Jobs accepted money from Microsoft to bundle IE in the Mac. If he hadn't swallowed his pride, Apple would not exist today. Even Larry Ellison makes a version of Oracle for the folks from Microsoft.
 
Re: The CC Preachers

Anyone read Views from Indy? Seems like he tries to develop a thought a little harder than Paper who just keeps telling us how he's been so CC/CART hard core for 50 years. WGAF? :confused:

I don't know, but I may actually read this Indy guy some more.
 
Re: The CC Preachers

All I remember is watching the likes of Paul Tracy, Helio Castroneves, Greg Moore (RIP) and others in what was a better form of motor racing than F1 was back then. I can't even remember watching a single F1 race during the late 80's or early 90's because it was all Champ Car in my world.

Now its gone to crap and IRL is soon to follow (Don't even get me started on how lame oval track racing is). Luckily enough we have F1 and other motorsports types to watch.

So sad really...I even remember being a young kid sitting with my bowl of cereal in pajamas watching ABC Sports or NBC or whoever and all I know was it was Champ Car on the screen.
 
Re: A hot one right out of the rumor bin

I ain't saying nothing. :rolleyes: .....just repeating what the Ass't editor of Formula Car Magazine posted. If it had been anyone else, I woulda just ignored it, but......

Hey gang, Just a heads up, but multiple discussion boards, as well as sources within the industry are stating the split is finally over, with merger expected very very shortly. While we have heard this before, sounds pretty good this time. We'll wait and see.

What gives me pause is that the CC Fanatics haven't picked up on it yet.

Edit: OK, now Miller's put it out there. Here's the killer: Paul Newman is quoted as being ecstatic: “I feel like I died and went to heaven,” said the co-owner of Champ Car’s winningest team along with Carl Haas and Mike Lanigan. “This is the best news I’ve heard in a long time.”. The CC Fanatics are going ballistic. This will be fun for a few days.
 
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