Why so many new NSXs for sale?
- Thread starter skafia
- Start date
- Joined
- 23 February 2016
- Messages
- 2,591
I kind of doubt the motor will have a bunch of applications
mabe the new performance sedan they are showing with the driver cockpit but that is a stretch
it would need to be both detuned and set up for mass production
i agree the current NSX inventory could beresolved by just shifting production to cars for ex US markets
mabe the new performance sedan they are showing with the driver cockpit but that is a stretch
it would need to be both detuned and set up for mass production
i agree the current NSX inventory could beresolved by just shifting production to cars for ex US markets
- Joined
- 23 August 2016
- Messages
- 362
Think so? They certainly haven't done anything like that before. Oh wait. They did. The C series V6 that looks utterly massive in the old NSX, had some SOHC heads put on and even got turned to longitudinal mount to go in the Acura Legend. Then they went back to transverse and stuck it in the Accord in the mid '90s.
That old C series was a 90 degree V. But it still slimmed down well enough with SOHC heads to fit in the Accord. The new engine is not the 60 degree super compact design the J motor is, but at 75 degrees, it's still not as wide as the old C series block. I bet it will fit fine. Maybe or maybe not with the turbos. But make no mistake, that engine architecture will be getting used in other carlines sooner than later.
- Joined
- 23 August 2016
- Messages
- 362
You are right. The Penske, Autonation, Hendrick, etc stores opted in without even a second thought.
"Mom and pop" stores that sell maybe 50 cars a month...it hurts.
- Joined
- 23 February 2016
- Messages
- 2,591
That is probably why the single store dealer near work is still trying to get a market adjustment on the one on his floor
my dealer owns 16 stores, two being Acura and they are in it for the long haul.
they have 2 of the 253 US NSX dealerships
my dealer owns 16 stores, two being Acura and they are in it for the long haul.
they have 2 of the 253 US NSX dealerships
- Joined
- 27 May 2016
- Messages
- 831
My best guess is that the TLX-S will be sport hybrid. It makes the most sense. Acura is hybrid-izing all the things. RLX, NSX, MDX. Squeeze 400hp out of it, compared to the 377 of the RLX hybrid. MasterNSXTech can comment better than I, but I dont think there is enough room for twin turbos in the engine bay of the V6 TLX.
I doubt it will be a turbo-4 from the upcoming CTR.
Yes but they didn't do that midway through the first-gen Legend's life cycle, they did it for the full model change for the 2nd-gen. There is no chance Honda is going to radically re-engineer the TLX to a longitudinally mounted engine for the MMC that is due this year. When the next full model change comes around there's a chance, especially because Acura has given some indication that they might be going longitudinal.
My bet is that they are not going to even attempt to mount the that engine transversely in any car they make. I could see if they go longitudinal for the next gen TLX and RLX. I'd still be skeptical of them putting a seriously potent engine in either car, but at least it's plausible.
If a TLX-S drops this year I would bet on sport-hybrid as well, given their current trajectory.
I don't know how well that car would perform if it were FWD with e-motors in the back though. I would almost prefer it with mechanical AWD with e-motors boosting the rear and the CTR motor driving things up front. The V6 TLX feels a bit nose-heavy compared to the 2.4L at the moment. I guess we'll see what they've cooked up in not too long here.
- Joined
- 27 May 2016
- Messages
- 831
the RLX hybrid handles pretty well. has the same feeling as the NSX around tight corners on the track (rotation around a center point).
TLX-S is likely due in 18 with the facelift. we saw sketches of it last spring.
dual exhaust tips are back! whoohoo!
TLX-S is likely due in 18 with the facelift. we saw sketches of it last spring.
dual exhaust tips are back! whoohoo!Perhaps not.
At the current pricing levels, here in Australia where we are awash with 911s of all descriptions, and with Ferrari, Lambo Audi and Aston Martin "supercars" a relatively common sight, I'm betting they will struggle to sell half a dozen across this continent, and it will be the same elsewhere. Lack of cachet and no racing program makes the NSX invisible to the majority of it's intended market.
I'll repeat what I think, the NSX will struggle to sell until it starts wining in GT3 and the McLaren F1 program starts to win multiple races. Until then I reckon it's dead in the water.
the RLX hybrid handles pretty well. has the same feeling as the NSX around tight corners on the track (rotation around a center point).
TLX-S is likely due in 18 with the facelift. we saw sketches of it last spring.
In 2005 I went down the Acura sedan road with a new RL A-SPEC 300 HP SH-AWD state of the art 4 door uber mobile....fail.
This thread is fascinating! Thanks for everyone's contributions.
- Joined
- 27 May 2016
- Messages
- 831
special tires FTL.
- Joined
- 23 August 2016
- Messages
- 362
those aren't the PAX tires on that 2005, but yeah those are a total nightmare when we do have to deal with them.
You've owned quite a bit of NSXs, what happened to #17 ?
In 2005 I went down the Acura sedan road with a new RL A-SPEC 300 HP SH-AWD state of the art 4 door uber mobile....fail.
fastaussie
Suspended
i don't reckon the first part of your comment would make much difference, even if success in either of those two series were achievable. but i do think the latter part of your comment is unfortunately closer to the truth.
sales slowing down so quickly into the first cycle of a brand new, highly anticipated HALO car, and 100+ sitting around at dealerships a few months after its much ballyhooed launch, is not very encouraging for the long haul...
i don't believe you've ever posted truer words than this, although i'd take your comments one step further and suggest that Honda always wants to do almost as much with less. i have never seen the point in this philosophy, which is the same way they produce their motorcycles. and on a side note, thank goodness MasterNSXTech is here to take a run at the title of Prime's most negative poster, it gets lonely here at the top.:biggrin:
there's many reasons for the new NSX languishing on showroom floors, but the bottom line is simply that people aren't buying it. there's nothing more to be said. you could talk about the stock market, Trump getting elected, Castro dying, Spongebob Squarepants dying (don't worry, he didn't), it really doesn't matter. the sales numbers don't lie, the NSX is not flying out of showrooms as quickly as they can make them.
as i stated earlier, Porsche sold almost one thousand 911R's in minutes. and the 488 has almost a one thousand day wait list. there's no denying those cars are in high demand. the NSX is undeniably not...
To use the Android phone analogy, the huge volume variations between say Samsung's top sellers and lets say those of Sony, tells a story around desirability due to the cult status of the brand object and the tendency of the market to herd together into a tribal identity around that particular cult brand. Cars are no different as status symbols - they generate their own tribes of loyalty that gather and build volume regardless of the merits of competitive offerings, resulting in a dyed-in-wool loyalty that makes it very difficult for a new-comer to gain traction into the market, especially one as specialized and crowded that the NSX is attempting to enter. I remember one of the Aussie reviewers commenting that perhaps the biggest drawback to acceptance of the NSX will be the 'Honda' badge - and I think he has a point.
But it's perhaps too early to call judgement based on the current sales numbers - there are still many if's and but's until we get a greater sense of where Honda can or cannot take this car in terms of development, model variants and marketing. The greatest danger perhaps is that the car will not gain enough sales traction to justify retaining the specialist factory facility, especially if a major international economic downturn dries up latent demand. The delay of release here in NZ, and it's predicted price means I'm going to take my time sampling the competitor's offerings to make sure I'm not going to end up being too disappointed with quality compromises or the general philosophy of design and driveability. It may well be I need to trip over to the US to have a good sample drive of the NSX.
Last edited:
fastaussie
Suspended
i was just driving down the 605 highway somewhere in the Inland Empire (inland Los Angeles) and saw a dealership jumbo tron sign brightly saying "2017 NSX in stock"...
It's almost winter. In most of the USA, only bargain hunters buy sports cars this time of year. I bought my NA2 in November, for example. It is likely sales will pick up in late winter/spring. Even so, it's a bit disturbing to see inventory build up.
As for Acura and its luxury chops....I wish they'd go RWD but they seem committed to AWD. Fix the sedan styling and add Benz-type lux fixes without the Benz price and people will notice. Whatever they are doing seems to work in the MDX, which will likely be my next daily driver in a few months when the RLX lease expires.
On another point... I will say I've enjoyed the eSH-AWD of my RLX Sport Hybrid. I owned a 2005 RL A-Spec before that and enjoyed it as well. Then again, I'm that weirdo who likes orphaned, unusual cars, I guess.
As for Acura and its luxury chops....I wish they'd go RWD but they seem committed to AWD. Fix the sedan styling and add Benz-type lux fixes without the Benz price and people will notice. Whatever they are doing seems to work in the MDX, which will likely be my next daily driver in a few months when the RLX lease expires.
On another point... I will say I've enjoyed the eSH-AWD of my RLX Sport Hybrid. I owned a 2005 RL A-Spec before that and enjoyed it as well. Then again, I'm that weirdo who likes orphaned, unusual cars, I guess.
- Joined
- 27 May 2016
- Messages
- 831
mdx sport hybrid is your next ride? 
i enjoyed the RLX hybrid on the track. obviously its not an M5, but surprisingly capable.
i enjoyed the RLX hybrid on the track. obviously its not an M5, but surprisingly capable.
fastaussie
Suspended
i can certainly agree with that, here's my question in response.
do you think if the NSX was lighter, faster, and more exhilarating than the Porsches, Ferrari's, McLaren's and Audi's, there'd still be 100+ brand new ones sitting around? if the NSX was clearly superior to the competition, do you think it would still be downplayed as merely another "Honda"?
Hard for me to know because I'm a total rookie with exotic performance cars. I seem to recall the original NSX was not a big seller despite for it's time having a groundbreaking design philosophy. Honda of 25 years ago was of course in a different world, doing very well in Formula 1 etc, so there was a performance pedigree that would have given the NSX some credo in the market of it's competitors. But I have a hunch the sales numbers were never great but I could be wrong.
I think I've asked here before; what is Honda's intended market for the NSX, and I seem to recall via one of their playbooks, that its older blokes with a bit of spare money in the pocket, that are seeking a comfortable daily driver grand tourer. When I'm finally able to afford buy one, I will definitely fit that category - I'll probably have a go at a bit of track-day running but the vast majority of driving will be on public roads. So the car as it is now, I'm guessing probably suits my expectations well. I do rate external appearance very high, and the NSX looks great to my eye, and even better than an R8 or 911 or 458. and possibly a 570S.
But I realize from reading these forums, that others (including yourself) have different expectations and desires when it comes to what would make the car appealing over it's competition. And those factors will to some extent be unique for every person. I presume Honda did their marketing surveys to find their likely buyer types, price, and what kind of car would appeal to those buyers. When you say "lighter, faster and more exhilarating", then clearly you mean attributes that will manifest driving on a track - certainly the NSX isn't optimized for that by design and nor was it intended as such. But all the Road tests are pretty good from my reading, and that would seem to meet my intended use most closely.
So you seem to suggest that Honda may have got it wrong with their design philosophy and execution, and that if they had designed it with a different target buyer, it would have the 'flown off the lot'. I'm not so sure but then hindsight is a great thing. Perhaps what they learn from developing the GT3 NSX will inspire a road-going version that will 'sell like pancakes'.
Last edited:
I would offer one suggestion to acura...it should strongly twist the arm of its dealers holding on to cars to let qualified buyers test drive the thing......seems the guys who bought sight unseen are generally very happy with the performance/comfort...btw there are a lot of pancake choices for breakfast on every corner.....how do they all survive?
Last edited:
There is a big difference between driving a car on a track for a magazine test or track day and owning such a car.
Ownership brings into play a lot of other aspects of the car beyond it's time around a track.
Usability, reliability, maintenance costs and so on play a much larger role in a car's life than it's odd track day.
From the outset the NSX at 3700 lbs was never going to be track star but it doesn't do badly.
Where I find it shines is in day to day driving doing what cars do 95% of the time.
It's plenty fast, silent puttering about looking for a parking spot, 21 mpg so far in city driving, rock solid at 80 mph in 9 th gear on the freeway, very comfortable and so on.
Ownership brings into play a lot of other aspects of the car beyond it's time around a track.
Usability, reliability, maintenance costs and so on play a much larger role in a car's life than it's odd track day.
From the outset the NSX at 3700 lbs was never going to be track star but it doesn't do badly.
Where I find it shines is in day to day driving doing what cars do 95% of the time.
It's plenty fast, silent puttering about looking for a parking spot, 21 mpg so far in city driving, rock solid at 80 mph in 9 th gear on the freeway, very comfortable and so on.
Horses for courses.
If everyone liked the same things as me, everyone who want to buy what I bought for me. But that's now how the world works.
Every car out there is a compromise... with "affordability to average consumer" being the first item cast aside for all the cars discussed here. Let's be sober about things.
I have no regrets about the NSX.
I've moved on to "what car do I want next?," but I expect to mull that for a couple of years before acting.....
If everyone liked the same things as me, everyone who want to buy what I bought for me. But that's now how the world works.
Every car out there is a compromise... with "affordability to average consumer" being the first item cast aside for all the cars discussed here. Let's be sober about things.
I have no regrets about the NSX.
I've moved on to "what car do I want next?," but I expect to mull that for a couple of years before acting.....
Last edited:
