Hi. I know there's been many threads on this topic, but I'm really looking for a pointed answer on when to change the timing belt and water pump. Is it based upon the years or mileage? Some folks have said it should be the earlier to occur of either x years (how many?) or x miles (how much?). What's the Prime community feel?
When to Change Timing Belt and Water Pump
- Thread starter RudyJ
- Start date
I feel good.
Good. Thanks for asking. And you?
If you don't have your owners manual then I guess you can call the dealer or even look it up in the wiki. There have been some owners who go by the book and others who push the limit.
How do I feel about it? I go by the book but sometimes I push the limit.
How do I feel about it? I go by the book but sometimes I push the limit.
One interesting annecdote... I just bought a fellow Prime members car and its a 1999 CTSC with 21k miles... Both Shane at Autowave and John at Cerrito looked at the car before we had it shipped out to me and felt that the TB/WP were "fine" and didnt need to be done even though they were original.
I was surprised b/c that seems counter to the advice Ive always understood which is that you just absolutely change them at either 7 years or 60k (whatever is first) and that there is no way to tell if they need to be changed or not. But I figured who am I to argue with those guys. Im not going to be putting any real mileage on the car so Ill prob have it done next year with Larry.
I was surprised b/c that seems counter to the advice Ive always understood which is that you just absolutely change them at either 7 years or 60k (whatever is first) and that there is no way to tell if they need to be changed or not. But I figured who am I to argue with those guys. Im not going to be putting any real mileage on the car so Ill prob have it done next year with Larry.
Are you serious? What is your definition of "pointed answer"? Id say thats what the manual says.
Check out the FAQ.
Depends. As Clint Eastwood would say: "Do you feel lucky?" :biggrin: You'll get different answers and opinions on here. My local Acura service and parts manager says 90K. When in doubt, change it out.
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Tough crowd here Rudy.......it's all in fun!
I have owned Honda products since the early 80's and Acura's since the early 90's. This has included Civic's, Accords, Preludes, Legends, RL's, TL's and NSX's. Personally put up to 150k miles on most of them, then sold them to friends who took them up to 250K and more. Not once have one of my Honda products required anything beyond normal wear items, (brakes, tires, exhaust systems, wheel alignments, valve adjustments, fluid changes and of course timing belt/water pump replacements).
Honda's recommendation for normal use (vs severe use) over the years has always been change the TB every 6 years or 90k miles, whichever comes first.
Back in the 80's they were recommending 60k mile intervals, and now I believe the Accords are recommending 105k intervals. I believe the time interval is still 6 years (72 months).
My advice to anyone owning an NSX that has 6 years since the last belt change - unless you have a wad of cash stuffed under the mattress that is earmarked for "possible NSX engine replacement", I would follow Honda's recommendations to the letter.
Now with that said, I have read about 91 NSX's that still have not had their first belt replacement. But of course, that owner probably has the aforementioned wad of cash under his or her mattress!!!
Honda's recommendation for normal use (vs severe use) over the years has always been change the TB every 6 years or 90k miles, whichever comes first.
Back in the 80's they were recommending 60k mile intervals, and now I believe the Accords are recommending 105k intervals. I believe the time interval is still 6 years (72 months).
My advice to anyone owning an NSX that has 6 years since the last belt change - unless you have a wad of cash stuffed under the mattress that is earmarked for "possible NSX engine replacement", I would follow Honda's recommendations to the letter.
Now with that said, I have read about 91 NSX's that still have not had their first belt replacement. But of course, that owner probably has the aforementioned wad of cash under his or her mattress!!!
I go by the book. It's a service item. You can stretch the service interval a little but by chance it? It will cost over $8K to repair the damage. It's in the service manual at six years or 90K miles, time OR mileage, whichever comes first. Time is more the enemy than mileage is on a timing belt and you can't check to see if a timing belt is good. You only know it's bad when it breaks.
If you want to put off this service, then why not other service? The only reason is cost. Honda engineers are not idiots. They set the service interval for a reason. They suggest six years or 90K miles as the safe life expectancy of a timing belt. You have two choices. Have this critical service done (pay now) or when it breaks (pay mega $$$$ later). I don't see how delaying this service will benefit you in any way as you will have it done eventually. It only puts your NSX in jeopordy.
I wrote an email to Pat Goss' radio show (top tech on Motorweek) and here's what he had to say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukXi83cAofU
If you want to put off this service, then why not other service? The only reason is cost. Honda engineers are not idiots. They set the service interval for a reason. They suggest six years or 90K miles as the safe life expectancy of a timing belt. You have two choices. Have this critical service done (pay now) or when it breaks (pay mega $$$$ later). I don't see how delaying this service will benefit you in any way as you will have it done eventually. It only puts your NSX in jeopordy.
I wrote an email to Pat Goss' radio show (top tech on Motorweek) and here's what he had to say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukXi83cAofU
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My neighbor owns an Acura MDX and he has put on 170K without changing the TB other then changing oils. I am not saying that you you should do like he does.
Not to be cynical, but it can be viewed the other way too. Honda (and all other car manufacturers) are in business to make money. TB/WP on any car is $$$.
So why not push it farther FORWARD? I would. I believe all services are that way (oil changes famously so).
There actually isnt really a lot of reason for them to NOT do that. Lets say the parts could easily last 10 years or more... If its a nice $1800 sale for the manufacturer/dealer, and people are kind of happy to do it anyway since they're very afraid of catastrophic failure, there's no reason to not set an interval that is far lower.
Im not an advocate of NOT doing service, but I do know of far more cars (FAR more) that have had TB serviced stretched insanely (like in the post above) then I do cars which blew up due to TB failure.
That said, Ill still do mine next year preventatively, but I would have had to have pretty much forced Shane and John to have done it now which I do find interesting since the car is 10 years old.
So why not push it farther FORWARD? I would. I believe all services are that way (oil changes famously so).
There actually isnt really a lot of reason for them to NOT do that. Lets say the parts could easily last 10 years or more... If its a nice $1800 sale for the manufacturer/dealer, and people are kind of happy to do it anyway since they're very afraid of catastrophic failure, there's no reason to not set an interval that is far lower.
Im not an advocate of NOT doing service, but I do know of far more cars (FAR more) that have had TB serviced stretched insanely (like in the post above) then I do cars which blew up due to TB failure.
That said, Ill still do mine next year preventatively, but I would have had to have pretty much forced Shane and John to have done it now which I do find interesting since the car is 10 years old.
Your suggestion that Honda states artificially sooner intervals for services in order to gouge the consumer for an extra (in this case) 90K service every ~18-21 years is a ridiculous claim. Honda has a reliability reputation to protect and I highly doubt that they would risk blowing up an engine over an extra $1,500 every 20 years. That claim just makes no sense and really doesn't benefit any manufacturer to pull that kind of scheme. Not to mention that their profit on parts isn't that great and Honda has no control over where one gets their services done so even if the conspiracy were true they might not even see the extra business.
And your statement about oil changes isn't true at all. Most interval times have increased to 5,000-10,000 miles or more on almost all new cars. These intervals have been increasing steadily for years. The last time I actually saw the 3K mile number in a manual had to be in the early 80s.
And in my experience it's always been the techs that have always suggested replacing the oil sooner than 3K miles even in cases where they weren't interested in the business. Oil change franchises have cut profit margins for oil changes down pretty significantly these days so I doubt any general mechanic is going to be hustling for your oil change business.
Interms of the TB and WP no one has any idea how long any parts are going to last since all parts on all cars operate in different environments and to varying degrees of use. I can tell you this, however: I have heard of timing belts and water pumps failing both before 90K miles and when older than 7 years but have never, ever heard of any TB/WP failures before both of those criteria were met and I doubt you'll find anyone who has.
To me this means if you exceed either of the manual's stated service intervals you're risking damage and if you adhere to the manual you are not (or at least the risk is exponentially less and if failure occurs it's almost certainly an install problem or inherent part flaw from the factory.)
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My timing belt was 17 years old before it was done. My car only had 26K miles. I had it done as soon as I bought the car. There was also a TSB to change the cover which was covered as part of the service. My Acura dealer charged $1,149. The service tech that the belt was still in pretty good condition considering its age. My car has been garaged its entire life however.
I agree with Hijacker though....I would much rather pay to replace the pump and timing belt then worry about the costs associated with any engine damage.
I agree with Hijacker though....I would much rather pay to replace the pump and timing belt then worry about the costs associated with any engine damage.
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As I understand it; the bearings fail causing a leak, not melt down.
Its preventative maintenance, unlike a belt which is catastrophic failure.
PS; changed mine at 18 years (13k miles).
Compared to other exotics the NSX belt change is pocket change.
The WP is TB driven. If it fails, the TB comes off and pistons shoot through your valvetrain.
It's not additional labor and ~$200 part. It might not need to be replaced at the same interval as the TB but I certainly wouldn't want to push it to 180K miles/14 years. They have failed in the past. Replace it during your 90K service. Please.
Let's say a car has 30K miles and decided to change only TB, but not WP. Save $200. Would it be wise to do that?
No, for resons stated above...
Tytus
Tytus
If the 7 year time interval has been reached then no, it's unwise.
If you don't replace it you're asking your water pump to perform perfectly for another 7 years which would mean it's at least 14 years old by the time of your next 90K service interval if you drive less than 12K miles/year. I guarantee you NSX water pumps have failed before they were 14 years old. Maybe the failed WPs had higher miles but at the end of the day there's no way to know if it was age or mileage or both that did it in.
Please, everyone--if you elect replace the WP every other 90K service you're really only saving ~$200 over 14 years or 180K miles. This is ridiculous and not thrifty or economical at all but extremely risky. I would gladly pay ~$200 over that time period to have the peace of mind that a critical part that could destroy my $15,000 engine (and has been known to fail) was replaced.
This is correct but when the bearings fail the pulley loses it's ability to rotate and the TB will rip itself apart spinning on a seized pulley or rip the pulley right off the WP assy. and fall off. WP failure will cause TB failure 99% of the time.
I simply can not undestand people putting off doing the TB/WP, just do it.
If it's time, do it, if it's PASSED the time, you should have done it yesterday, so do it NOW before it's too late.
Or, simply not start the car until you can afford it.
If it's time, do it, if it's PASSED the time, you should have done it yesterday, so do it NOW before it's too late.
Or, simply not start the car until you can afford it.
It should be known that TIME IS MORE THE ENEMY THAN MILEAGE IS on a timing belt. You can't check to see if a timing belt is good. They all look good from the outside. You don't know what's going on the inside. It's a service item, a wear item, just like brakes, drive belts, filters and fluids.
