Tracked - Ferrari 458 Italia

I seriously can't see how a heavily modded NSX can compare to a 458. There is 20 years and millions of dollars in technological advancement that just can't be transplanted into the NSX. The modded NSX may beat it on the track, a different set up may make it a great street car. The 458 does both. But the 458 is not just another level of refinement, it is a new benchmark.

I love my NSX, but time and technology marches on.
 
Caustic said:
I seriously can't see how a heavily modded NSX can compare to a 458. There is 20 years and millions of dollars in technological advancement that just can't be transplanted into the NSX. The modded NSX may beat it on the track, a different set up may make it a great street car. The 458 does both. But the 458 is not just another level of refinement, it is a new benchmark.

I love my NSX, but time and technology marches on.
Click to expand...

all you have to do is take a few moments to inspect a 458 which I have done,,,it is in another universe of car construction compared to my nsx...sorry it just is.
 
CL65 Captain said:
Thought I corrected it. Yes, I saw that it was GM/Delphi who originally did it in the Caddy STS and then CTS-V. Now the technology is being licensed by Ferrari, Audi and Acura.
Click to expand...

I know, it is so much better than mercedes abc system too, which sadly mclaren adopted on their mp4-12c. In a few years that system requires replacement in all abc mercs, at a killer cost. I suppose mclaren owners won't mind though, and it does perform well enough that's for sure.
 
different systems, only commonality being hydraulic?

Nero Tenebre said:
I know, it is so much better than mercedes abc system too, which sadly mclaren adopted on their mp4-12c. In a few years that system requires replacement in all abc mercs, at a killer cost. I suppose mclaren owners won't mind though, and it does perform well enough that's for sure.
Click to expand...
Is the McLaren MP4-12C PCC (Proactive Chassis Control) derived from the MB ABC (Active Body Control)? Other than the elimination of anti-roll/sway bars, I believe the two systems are quite different... :confused:

Great site for moar...

http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/suspension/tech_suspension3.htm

Lastly, I truly hope the MP4-12C's suspension is not MB derived in principle & execution (as it's very problematic & service-intensive)! :eek:
 
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I assumed they were one and the same considering their history (Mclaren-Mercedes f1)... It worries me too
 
different...

Nero Tenebre said:
I assumed they were one and the same considering their history (Mclaren-Mercedes f1)... It worries me too
Click to expand...
I did some research. I think the only parallels between the MB "ABC" & the McLaren "PCC" is that both systems have some measure of hydraulic involvement. Otherwise, they are vastly different w/ regards to just about everything else. There is seemingly no co-development at all.

I'm not sure if it's more-so the hardware (components) or the electronics that are problematic over time on the ABC-equipped MB's. The MP4-12C doesn't have a quote-unquote strut like the MB's, instead simple hydraulic cylinders. I believe the MB suspension issues (whether air or hydraulic) generally focus around failing struts and/or electronics.

With regards to the MP4-12C, best bet is to drive the sh!t outta it for the first two years (manufacturer's 2-yr/unlimited-miles) & let any portending issues manifest & surface (ie. F.I. engine, pre-cog SSG transmission, PCC suspension, electronic performance settings, etc). If proven via regular use early'on thru time/mileage, it's likely the components/systems are solid.

... or gotta pay to play! :D

For those who are intrigued, a nice breakdown of the MP4-12C's suspension:

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2010/09/2012-mclaren-mp4-12c-suspension-walkaround.html
 
Just as I do every day .....see things from the other persons perspective....then temper your response accordingly.
 
You should all quit bickering and just pick on me. :wink: On-Topic: I think its awesome you got to drive and track such a wonderful piece of engineering. All though Ferrari has lost that special aura their old cars use to have they still do deliver on a performance stand point.
 
under the skin, still no equal...

docjohn said:
all you have to do is take a few moments to inspect a 458 which I have done,,,it is in another universe of car construction compared to my nsx...sorry it just is.
Click to expand...
Can you please expand on this! Are you referring to the engine/transmission, electronics/"nannies", chassis/suspension tuning, features/equipment, refinement/execution... or the actual fit/finish, fabrication/assembly, engineering/construction, design/underpinnings, sub-structure/"frame", etc?
 
Re: under the skin, still no equal...

Osiris_x11 said:
Can you please expand on this! Are you referring to the engine/transmission, electronics/"nannies", chassis/suspension tuning, features/equipment, refinement/execution... or the actual fit/finish, fabrication/assembly, engineering/construction, design/underpinnings, sub-structure/"frame", etc?
Click to expand...

fit/finish/overall execution/materials...obviously the layout are similar but cmon I'm the first to sing the many praises of our nsx but you just have to look at how the 458 is"screwed" together ....
 
Re: under the skin, still no equal...

docjohn said:
fit/finish/overall execution/materials...obviously the layout are similar but cmon I'm the first to sing the many praises of our nsx but you just have to look at how the 458 is"screwed" together ....
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_458_Italia#Recall:_wheel-arch_adhesive_fires

2353e4dde99fab763bf468186c4b362b.jpg


Ferrari-458-Fire-2-542x304.jpg


Both F458's overall execution/materials certainly could have used more screws so they won't be desiring....
 
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oops you are right Bats..I should have said glued together.:rolleyes:
 
not a car purchase, instead more'so a boutique acquisition...

docjohn said:
fit/finish/overall execution/materials...obviously the layout are similar but cmon I'm the first to sing the many praises of our nsx but you just have to look at how the 458 is"screwed" together ....
Click to expand...
Gotcha! By-chance, did you view the foreign-language documentary/special featuring the 458 Italia construction/assembly at the factory? A very neat vid' clip! Seemingly, it's a very hand's-on approach from start-to-finish (can be a good thing, can be a bad thing). It reminded me of a 21st century take on pre-industrial revolution cottage-industries. After viewing the vid', I gained an appreciation of why a Ferrari costs what it does - not because it's better but because how it's made (old-work craftsmanship, laborious tinkering/tweaking, fixation on sensual/perceivable traits, uncompromised-wants trumping necessitating-needs), etc.

Off-topic, but related... I have yet to see any (rear) mid-engine exotic high-performance sportscar designed/engineered & constructed/fabricated like the NSX (under then panels - I mean at the chassis/frame, sub-frame/cradle, core-level).

I literally have no life & get'off to seeing the aforementioned platform layout nekkid (ie. sans panels, covers, drivetrains, electronics, trim/glass/plastics). From '90 on- the ESPRIT, 355, 360 Modena, F430, 458 Italia, Gallardo, R8, Ford GT, Evora, Diablo, Murcielago, Aventador, MP4-12C, etc to some degree in some aspects all are above and/or superior in performance/handling, tech/equipment, refinement/sophistication. But, at the core - the NSX still seemingly is a cut above the rest... sadly, perhaps the only metric it holds above any of them - but nonetheless an impressive trait to be (arguably) unrivaled in. I dunno if this is an advantage or not, perhaps it's good to instead have anelementary erector-set like fabrication/construction underneath & focus "resources" on other more important matters (chassis suspension tuning, drive/power trains, electronics, etc) like the others vs. an overbuilt, solid, uncompromised "core" like the NSX. . .

I'm on a different computer at the moment, once I get a chance to be on my own personal one - I'll post some images/data of what I've been babbling about above. If anything, it'll get some oooh's & aaah's from our esteemed enthusiast community! :D
 
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pgilliam1 said:
All any car guy would have to do, to understand this post, would be to drive the 458. Any car guy that didn't think the 458 was almost absolutely perfect and unforgettable, especially when comparing it to their car, would have to admit that they were slightly biased towards "their" car simply because it was "their" car. We all do it to some degree. I did it with my NSX - until I drove the 458. Now I know.
Click to expand...

Bottomline, pgilliam actually drove the 458 to have a hands on experience with it and hence made a comparison. His views on the car are much in line with all the reviews that I have read about the 458. Well, I need to win the lottery. Can't count on that dead-end job.
Steve
 
How about a Heffner Twin Turbo 458! I think that would end the argument.

John
 

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Re: Tracked - Ferrari 456 Italia

CL65 Captain said:
There was a guy that brought a 458 to Putnam Park for our last track day. I spent all afternoon passing him and passing him and passing him. Really fast car down the straight, shame the driver couldn't drive it. :wink:
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I'm hoping you have video to show us all :biggrin: I know I'd love to see it.
 
I have had a couple of "test drives" of a F458. I good friend of mine bought one new and wanted me to drive it. I must say.... the car is spectacular. It does everything so well and dynamically it is beyond most driver's capabilities. BUT..... It has it own set of flaws. I don't care for the front end, didn't like the huge wheel gaps over the front fenders. I didn't like the ridiculous steering wheel and the interior/electronics. Any owner would get used to the interior/electronics though. Finally.... I felt that the steering was way too light and had little feedback at slow speeds. It felt better at higher speeds. The other concern I had is that the car cannot really be enjoyed at legal speeds. I made 2-3 runs up to 140 MPH in a Very short distance. It was very impressive but could have easily landed us in jail. At speeds below 70 MPH u feel like you and the car are trapped. I kept waiting to unleash the monster! U have to track the car to appreciate it.

Finally....part of me really likes the "mechanical" aspect of driving my GT3. U shift, heel/toe, rotate the car......etc. It is completely different that the Ferrari's but in some ways more fun. The GT3 is old school in the sense that it requires significant driver interaction. The F458 isn't as interactive. It is a tool for speed. I am hoping the MP4 is more interactive but the reviews haven't been so promising.
 

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