Yes but I'm not sure which one. Did you or Omeed figure out the story with the Nomex suit restriction with the FCA Empire Region?
Too much suspension, too little knowledge
- Thread starter TURBO2GO
- Start date
Sorry I didn't know she was still shaving yo mommas mustache so maybe middle of next week she'll come by and do what your not man enough to:biggrin:
This thing is going to drop my car 2" and I cannot afford even half an inch. I need to get a different front lip before the install or else it will be in shreds the first day. Or can I just raise it without affecting the performance? Just answer the question and don't make start on yo momma's weight...
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Get longer springs. Those look to be about 5", go to a 7" front & 8" rear. They don't have to be KW, you can get Hypercoil or Eibach Racing springs and now is your chance to get whatever spring rate you want. Talk to Billy. My preference would be to step down to a 600/500 ~ approx the same as the Type R, but with the KW dampers will be a hell of a lot smoother than Honda's type R. I tested 450/350 with my JRZs and the ride is more or less about the same as the 600/500 so I went back to the latter.
And let me know if you want to sell your springs, I wouldn't mind going the other way up to a 1200/900 to test out on the track. Although, someone correct me if I am wrong, running that stiff you would really want to be on Hoosiers vs the Dunlop Star Specs that I am currently running.
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Sure you can raise ... just put the NSX on yo mommas back as she'll never notice:biggrin:
Yes you can raise it..it's a fully adjustable suspension. Since your having it corner balanced take your suspension adjustment tools with you and have them raise the car to a height you feel comfortable with. Todas were pretty close to that much drop when I got them and I raised the car twice to get it where it was tolerable. Lose the front spoiler as if you have the stock NSX 4x4 wheel gap and your still scraping it's just not worth it.
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Height of the actual spring. Just the spring, not the perch, helper springs, etc. I was just guessing by the photo.
I can't tell by your photo, but if you have 1-2" or so of threading above where the perch seat is sitting, they can raise it up quite a bit. If there isn't, then go with a longer spring. You can use the same spring rate as your current setup or go softer.
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Dave please find a raceshop that does track car settup,so they can do what you can't, and also educate you on the abc's of suspension and shock tuning.
Doc I'm looking, Ive even posted on forums, I haven't found anyone local. No one seems to know anyone that can corner balance in my area. I will keep looking. This is why I haven't installed yet. I need to get all this sorted out.
+1Height of the actual spring. Just the spring, not the perch, helper springs, etc. I was just guessing by the photo.
I can't tell by your photo, but if you have 1-2" or so of threading above where the perch seat is sitting, they can raise it up quite a bit. If there isn't, then go with a longer spring. You can use the same spring rate as your current setup or go softer.
Raise your spring perches by that inch or two to raise your ride height. Either that or get longer springs as the Captain said and leave the spring perches about where they are now. In both cases your helper springs will start to compress and it will get harder to turn the spring perch.
What top hats are you going to use? Stock?
You do have shorter springs than the 3-Way KWs on the FXMD car... I think the lengths of the FX car are 140 or 160mm front and 180mm rear but i'm not sure.
Where do you live again Turbo?
Dave - I still recommend selling these and not installing them. Doing it correctly requires too much work and commitment to the car. You've flopped back and forth about keeping it, I dont understand why you would want to hasell yourself with setting this up. Im sure it will be great all done, but what a PITA to get set up. They are super cool though! You need a set up and forget system.
To who? you? LOL....
It's not that hard when you have Billy Johnson. He is helping me a lot with them.
Billy, I am in Boston. I'm coaching my team these days.
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I knew you were a pansy. :biggrin:
I'm somewhat closer now (Charlotte) compared to Southern California...
Are you kidding me? I had my TODAs put in 5 or so years ago and I havent touched them since. No adjusting of rebound. Not once. I havent touched damping either. Ride height hasnt changed since day 0.
Ive never felt that I wanted them to behave any different so theyve stayed as they were. Your freakshow shocks are designed to be adjusted differently for different drivers! You go to a new track, dial them in again!
Too many headaches for me!
Not really. You don't dial them in differently at different tracks on your suspension, neither do you for NSX-R or stock suspension, or most people for that matter for various tracks.
If I were you I would at least have a wet track setup along with your nice dry grippy track set
If I were you I would at least have a wet track setup along with your nice dry grippy track set
He does have a wet setup..... PARK. :biggrin:
You got it baby. That's EXACTLY what my wet setup is.
Update? Dave did you get this manly suspension installed yet?
WOW,
Just found this topic and am somewhat amazed by all the comments.
I do agree that with any adjustable suspension setup the problem is that when not knowing what the setup changes will do, you will probably never get optimal performance from them.
However, you should be able to end up with a suspension that is noticably better than the OE stuff which is always a compromise as it is designed to preform reasonably on all surfaces and is very often also designed with the driver's preference in a certain part of the world in mind.
A permanent setup of a coiloverkit will also ALWAYS be a compromise!!
If the road surface or griplevels change you would have to make changes all the time to keep optimal setup, this is the reason that some highend cars have electronically managed suspension, but these are also just as good as the software that is managing them.
The only place where coilover setup is changed all the time is at the track where this can make a big difference as there the roadholding is always used to the absolute limit and as such must be changed when circumstances change (wet/dry/flat track/bumpy track/etc).
I also agree that to get the best out of a coilover set, cornerbalancing should be done, but I feel it is a bit overstressed that you MUST do this or otherwise the car will not handle well, that is just not true.
When installing, just make sure to make left and right the same height and if you keep the same front/rear hight difference as with the standard setup (regardless wether lowering the car with the new setup or keeping original height, so front/rear balance is also more or less the same), things should work quite well.
No factory suspension is cornerbalanced and lots of cars will still handle well if the engineers have done their suspension research.
I just got me a slightly used KW3 inox coilover kit for my MR2 Turbo and will be playing with that soon.
Just found this topic and am somewhat amazed by all the comments.
I do agree that with any adjustable suspension setup the problem is that when not knowing what the setup changes will do, you will probably never get optimal performance from them.
However, you should be able to end up with a suspension that is noticably better than the OE stuff which is always a compromise as it is designed to preform reasonably on all surfaces and is very often also designed with the driver's preference in a certain part of the world in mind.
A permanent setup of a coiloverkit will also ALWAYS be a compromise!!
If the road surface or griplevels change you would have to make changes all the time to keep optimal setup, this is the reason that some highend cars have electronically managed suspension, but these are also just as good as the software that is managing them.
The only place where coilover setup is changed all the time is at the track where this can make a big difference as there the roadholding is always used to the absolute limit and as such must be changed when circumstances change (wet/dry/flat track/bumpy track/etc).
I also agree that to get the best out of a coilover set, cornerbalancing should be done, but I feel it is a bit overstressed that you MUST do this or otherwise the car will not handle well, that is just not true.
When installing, just make sure to make left and right the same height and if you keep the same front/rear hight difference as with the standard setup (regardless wether lowering the car with the new setup or keeping original height, so front/rear balance is also more or less the same), things should work quite well.
No factory suspension is cornerbalanced and lots of cars will still handle well if the engineers have done their suspension research.
I just got me a slightly used KW3 inox coilover kit for my MR2 Turbo and will be playing with that soon.
WOW,
Just found this topic and am somewhat amazed by all the comments.
I do agree that with any adjustable suspension setup the problem is that when not knowing what the setup changes will do, you will probably never get optimal performance from them.
However, you should be able to end up with a suspension that is noticably better than the OE stuff which is always a compromise as it is designed to preform reasonably on all surfaces and is very often also designed with the driver's preference in a certain part of the world in mind.
A permanent setup of a coiloverkit will also ALWAYS be a compromise!!
If the road surface or griplevels change you would have to make changes all the time to keep optimal setup, this is the reason that some highend cars have electronically managed suspension, but these are also just as good as the software that is managing them.
The only place where coilover setup is changed all the time is at the track where this can make a big difference as there the roadholding is always used to the absolute limit and as such must be changed when circumstances change (wet/dry/flat track/bumpy track/etc).
I also agree that to get the best out of a coilover set, cornerbalancing should be done, but I feel it is a bit overstressed that you MUST do this or otherwise the car will not handle well, that is just not true.
When installing, just make sure to make left and right the same height and if you keep the same front/rear hight difference as with the standard setup (regardless wether lowering the car with the new setup or keeping original height, so front/rear balance is also more or less the same), things should work quite well.
No factory suspension is cornerbalanced and lots of cars will still handle well if the engineers have done their suspension research.
I just got me a slightly used KW3 inox coilover kit for my MR2 Turbo and will be playing with that soon.
There is a big difference between you and the op,you play with the suspension settings,he plays with ........ fill in the blank:tongue:
Turbo:
With this fully-adjustable suspension, and it seems no one local to help you out, you're going to have to get a crash course in suspension basics.
Kudos to you for sticking with this and trying to learn. You're going to have to start with the basics though. The best place I know of is to go to the suspension experts and read all you can about the technology and setting up a vehicle. Instead of digging through all the garbage on the internet and getting confused, digest all this stuff first. Eventually it will make sense.
Springs are the easiest to understand so I would start with them. This is a nice, simple summary:
http://autospeed.com.au/cms/title_Springs-and-Natural-Frequencies/A_108167/article.html
Next, the below are mostly related to shock absorber technology and setup. Don't get too involved with each manufacturers details, just try to understand the big picture how these things work. Shocks are basically just a piston with a washer on the end (with holes in the washer), moving through oil:
http://www.bilsteinus.com/motorsports_2010.pdf
http://www.koniracing.com/rrtuningguide.cfm
The Penske manual has a lot of good info - start on page 15:
http://www.penskeshocks.com/files/Adjustable_Manual.pdf
It would be nice to have some threads on here about suspension basics and how to set up you car. Start out simple so everyone has the same basic fundamentals. Like anything, you can make this as complicated and technical as you want. At that point, you'll get varying opinions on what is "best."
The above links are directly from the manufacturers, so they are about as technically accurate as you can get, without any bias or opinions to wade through and get confused.
The bottom line is:
Go ahead and put them on your car (after first recording every measurement you can as I suggested previously so you'll have a baseline to go back to). If you're concerned about ride height, take the front lip off temporarily. If the car is still too low, raise it up with the spring perches. If you raise the car front and back heights equally (not the shock body length since you have different spring rates front/back - measure from a reference point on the car front/rear to the ground), you haven't affected the "corner balance" your suspension came with. Try to measure on as flat of a surface as possible, in the same place before/after you make any adjustments. If you don't have a corner balance shop, don't worry - just get it aligned for your new ride heights and then start playing with the dampening.
Drive the car. If your roads suck (As I recall, most roads in Boston do), then decrease the compression and rebound adjustments until the tires don't skip over the roads. It's important you maintain good contact on public roads for safety reasons. Tracks are smoother so you can tighten them up then. Just play around with the various dampening adjustments to get a feel for them - they should give you consistent road feel results like the literature above. Just be safe when you're doing so in as controlled environment as possible.
Experiment and you'll learn a lot :biggrin:
Dave
EDIT:
The baseline "corner balance" of this setup is probably good enough to go out and have fun with. Just be aware it may not be optimal for you and your particular car (weight distribution, tires, driving preference, etc) and slowly increase your limits accordingly. After you have an understanding of the dampening adjustments, then start playing around with raising the front in relation to the rear, or vice-versa to see what effect it has and set it how you want it. Because it effects your toe-in and camber, you should get it realigned after adjusting the ride height. Unless you have infinite time and money for alignments, make some changes you'll notice - like raise the front 1.5" and raise the rear 3/4" (of course if the car is too low). Align it and see that you now have a little more understeer. Just experiment!
With this fully-adjustable suspension, and it seems no one local to help you out, you're going to have to get a crash course in suspension basics.
Kudos to you for sticking with this and trying to learn. You're going to have to start with the basics though. The best place I know of is to go to the suspension experts and read all you can about the technology and setting up a vehicle. Instead of digging through all the garbage on the internet and getting confused, digest all this stuff first. Eventually it will make sense.
Springs are the easiest to understand so I would start with them. This is a nice, simple summary:
http://autospeed.com.au/cms/title_Springs-and-Natural-Frequencies/A_108167/article.html
Next, the below are mostly related to shock absorber technology and setup. Don't get too involved with each manufacturers details, just try to understand the big picture how these things work. Shocks are basically just a piston with a washer on the end (with holes in the washer), moving through oil:
http://www.bilsteinus.com/motorsports_2010.pdf
http://www.koniracing.com/rrtuningguide.cfm
The Penske manual has a lot of good info - start on page 15:
http://www.penskeshocks.com/files/Adjustable_Manual.pdf
It would be nice to have some threads on here about suspension basics and how to set up you car. Start out simple so everyone has the same basic fundamentals. Like anything, you can make this as complicated and technical as you want. At that point, you'll get varying opinions on what is "best."
The above links are directly from the manufacturers, so they are about as technically accurate as you can get, without any bias or opinions to wade through and get confused.
The bottom line is:
Go ahead and put them on your car (after first recording every measurement you can as I suggested previously so you'll have a baseline to go back to). If you're concerned about ride height, take the front lip off temporarily. If the car is still too low, raise it up with the spring perches. If you raise the car front and back heights equally (not the shock body length since you have different spring rates front/back - measure from a reference point on the car front/rear to the ground), you haven't affected the "corner balance" your suspension came with. Try to measure on as flat of a surface as possible, in the same place before/after you make any adjustments. If you don't have a corner balance shop, don't worry - just get it aligned for your new ride heights and then start playing with the dampening.
Drive the car. If your roads suck (As I recall, most roads in Boston do), then decrease the compression and rebound adjustments until the tires don't skip over the roads. It's important you maintain good contact on public roads for safety reasons. Tracks are smoother so you can tighten them up then. Just play around with the various dampening adjustments to get a feel for them - they should give you consistent road feel results like the literature above. Just be safe when you're doing so in as controlled environment as possible.
Experiment and you'll learn a lot :biggrin:
Dave
EDIT:
The baseline "corner balance" of this setup is probably good enough to go out and have fun with. Just be aware it may not be optimal for you and your particular car (weight distribution, tires, driving preference, etc) and slowly increase your limits accordingly. After you have an understanding of the dampening adjustments, then start playing around with raising the front in relation to the rear, or vice-versa to see what effect it has and set it how you want it. Because it effects your toe-in and camber, you should get it realigned after adjusting the ride height. Unless you have infinite time and money for alignments, make some changes you'll notice - like raise the front 1.5" and raise the rear 3/4" (of course if the car is too low). Align it and see that you now have a little more understeer. Just experiment!
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