To Eibach or not to Eibach?
- Thread starter Viper Driver
- Start date
I did have an alignment done when I was at Basch's on Friday......is that what you meant? I'm not very smart on alignment stuff......I just told Mark to align it after the springs went in and that's what he did.
You may want to measure the height now and compare it 1k miles later. The new springs will settle and it may change your alignment setup a bit. They did on mine.
A $60 alignment is better than a $900 set of tires 6k miles later. Ask me how I know.
Good luck! Don't you just love the look of your car now?!
A $60 alignment is better than a $900 set of tires 6k miles later. Ask me how I know.
Good luck! Don't you just love the look of your car now?!
Why? Do you load groceries in the front of the car? If anything, a load of groceries in the trunk would make the car less likely to scrape.
[This message has been edited by Michigan NSX (edited 29 November 2002).]
Just don't put your ice cream and frozen foods in the trunk...
Great to hear you are pleased with the new springs. Did you keep the 11 year old shocks or did you replace them too?
There are lot of people with Eibach setup these days. You should just hook up with a local if possible and test drive it.
Its a good excuse to get to know your local NSXers. I have Eibach + Koni and I agree it is a great street/track/looks combo.
This is a delima I've had in the past and on my next NSX, I'll be definitely putting springs on...
Most likely going to go w/ the TEIN adjustable setup. My only concern is un-even tire wear due to too much camber on the rear tires...
I had this problem w/ my 92 prelude Si and it really sucked... couldn't tweak the suspension to get the camber right...
Is there a solution to this problem? Or do you just have to buy tires every 2k miles?
What does the comptech non-compliance rear beam do exactly? Does this help the camber issue on lowered cars?
-Electro
Most likely going to go w/ the TEIN adjustable setup. My only concern is un-even tire wear due to too much camber on the rear tires...
I had this problem w/ my 92 prelude Si and it really sucked... couldn't tweak the suspension to get the camber right...
Is there a solution to this problem? Or do you just have to buy tires every 2k miles?
What does the comptech non-compliance rear beam do exactly? Does this help the camber issue on lowered cars?
-Electro
Here is my 2 cents even though it is a little late but I figure that many people will read this thread so here is what I did. I read the FAQ section on suspension and I knew I did not want a stiffer ride as the NSX is already fairly stiff. I tossed around the idea of lowering springs but decided to not use them because what you are basically doing is putting in a shorter spring that has a stiffer spring rate to lower your car by a factory set height. Usually the car will not settle at the height the spring manufacturers claim them to be.
Anyway, by install lowering springs, you have just reduced your suspension travel by the same amount that you lowered your car. This will cause the shocks to compress further than they usually would and might even bottom out or blow a seal. Many installers will cut some of the bumperstop from the shocks to allow for the extra travel but there is a reason why the stoppers are the size they are.
If you want to lower your car properly, you should get adjustable coilover suspensions as this raises or lowers the spring perch and you keep the suspension travel. Also the springs and shocks are tuned. The draw back is sometimes you will hear some rattles or suspension noise that might irritate the heck out of you.
Here is what I did. I chose to go with the Bilstein shocks with adjustable spring perch. There is a notch that is about 7/8" lower than the factory setting. I set my perch setting to the lower setting and kept the factory springs. This lowered my car right around 1" or if you want to be technical about it, 7/8" all around. I still have the full travel of my suspension but with a lot better dampening and rebounding from the new Bilstein shocks. To address the handling, I also installed a set of Dali Street/Race swaybars which I set the front to stiffest and the rear at 2nd to the softest. My car is running with 215/40/17 and 275/35/18 S-02 tires on 17x8 and 18x10 Volk AV3 wheels and I love it!
I took my car to Thunderhill raceway just about a week ago and had a blast. Car handled very neutral with a very slight understeer which I could correct with a little more throttle. The car rides as close to stock as you can get but the handling is definitely improved. I would highly recommend everyone to just change to Bilstein shocks with adjustable spring perchs as the best bang for the buck for lowering your car. The reason why I do not like progressive lowering springs is also because the tighter wound coils are what I call dead coils because as soon as you lower the weight of the car onto the springs, they compress and touch one another. I think linear springs are always best. Good luck.
Anyway, by install lowering springs, you have just reduced your suspension travel by the same amount that you lowered your car. This will cause the shocks to compress further than they usually would and might even bottom out or blow a seal. Many installers will cut some of the bumperstop from the shocks to allow for the extra travel but there is a reason why the stoppers are the size they are.
If you want to lower your car properly, you should get adjustable coilover suspensions as this raises or lowers the spring perch and you keep the suspension travel. Also the springs and shocks are tuned. The draw back is sometimes you will hear some rattles or suspension noise that might irritate the heck out of you.
Here is what I did. I chose to go with the Bilstein shocks with adjustable spring perch. There is a notch that is about 7/8" lower than the factory setting. I set my perch setting to the lower setting and kept the factory springs. This lowered my car right around 1" or if you want to be technical about it, 7/8" all around. I still have the full travel of my suspension but with a lot better dampening and rebounding from the new Bilstein shocks. To address the handling, I also installed a set of Dali Street/Race swaybars which I set the front to stiffest and the rear at 2nd to the softest. My car is running with 215/40/17 and 275/35/18 S-02 tires on 17x8 and 18x10 Volk AV3 wheels and I love it!
I took my car to Thunderhill raceway just about a week ago and had a blast. Car handled very neutral with a very slight understeer which I could correct with a little more throttle. The car rides as close to stock as you can get but the handling is definitely improved. I would highly recommend everyone to just change to Bilstein shocks with adjustable spring perchs as the best bang for the buck for lowering your car. The reason why I do not like progressive lowering springs is also because the tighter wound coils are what I call dead coils because as soon as you lower the weight of the car onto the springs, they compress and touch one another. I think linear springs are always best. Good luck.
This is a compromise decision only you can make. The more camber you have, the better the cornering performance typically. Just drive your car around turns faster.
The Eibach progressive rate springs do not "compress and touch each other" as soon as you put the car down. They work quite well as a lowering - but with a good street ride - compromise. The small amount that the Bilsteins lower the car should put you right at the edge of the OEM alignment settings.(just under -2.0 for the rear camber)
I agree that linear rate springs are better at the track - but what about the drive to and from? (Disclaimer - I have TEIN RE's and I don't think they are stiff enough)
;-)
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Mark Johnson, CEO of Custodial Services @ Dali Racing, a Not For Profit Company.
Hey Mark,
Sorry to make that assumption with the Eibach progressive springs. I had some Eibachs in the past on my Integra GSR which compressed and touched about 3 or 4 coils. I also had some H&R progressive springs on my Audi S4 which also did the same. I automatically assumed that most progressive springs would have a few dead coils. As for linear springs, it all depends upon the spring rate. If you use the stock springs, then the ride should be comfortable. I guess ride stiffness is a personal thing and also depends upon what you are planning on using your car for. I should speak for those who want to keep their ride as close to stock as possible, to use the Bilstein shocks as a means to lower their car. Anyway, if anyone wants to purchase Bilstein shocks and/or sway bars, go see Mark Johnson at Dali Racing for the best prices. I did and so did my buddy NMYMIRR.
Sorry to make that assumption with the Eibach progressive springs. I had some Eibachs in the past on my Integra GSR which compressed and touched about 3 or 4 coils. I also had some H&R progressive springs on my Audi S4 which also did the same. I automatically assumed that most progressive springs would have a few dead coils. As for linear springs, it all depends upon the spring rate. If you use the stock springs, then the ride should be comfortable. I guess ride stiffness is a personal thing and also depends upon what you are planning on using your car for. I should speak for those who want to keep their ride as close to stock as possible, to use the Bilstein shocks as a means to lower their car. Anyway, if anyone wants to purchase Bilstein shocks and/or sway bars, go see Mark Johnson at Dali Racing for the best prices. I did and so did my buddy NMYMIRR.
Does it make sense to put Eibachs over 11 year old stock springs? To be honest, I'm not too concerned about track performance, just want to get rid of that annoying gap between my tires and the top of the wheel wells. What is the life-expectancy of the stock shocks? Thanks for your opinions.
I decided that mine were probably affecting my handling, which was starting to seem more vague and less crisp. This happened a year ago on my '91 after eleven years of mostly track use, with 52K miles including 50-60 track events (8415 actual track miles). I suspect a car that's mostly street driven could go longer (i.e. more miles) before reaching this point, but I don't know how much longer. Also some folks might not notice the deterioration of the shocks until they're way, way past the point that they've started to affect the handling.
If you're primarily considering the springs solely to drop the ride height, you might consider replacing the struts instead, getting Bilsteins and installing them using the lower perch setting to lower the ride height, and continuing to use the stock springs.
FWIW, this is not what I did; I got the Bilsteins (from CGI Motorsports) but maintained the stock ride height.
[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 03 December 2002).]
Just remember, sometimes the cheapest option is not the best option. You get what you pay for! If you are going to upgrade your suspension, don't do it just for the looks. You might end up regretting it. The NSX is already low to the ground so if you lower your car about 1 inch, the front chin spoiler is going to rub alot of driveways. Even going in at extreme angles, you will still hit occassionally. Good luck!
