Tire Rack Dissappointment

[H-carWizKid]

Cross posted in NSXSC Off Topic as well...

I have a personal experience I would like to share with anyone planning on doing business with the folks over at The Tire Rack.

I recomended The Tire Rack to a female friend of mine who was looking to purchase four new all season tires for her 98 Prelude (I know, this is an NSX board, but the content of her experience is pertinent to all car enthusiast; potential customers). I assumed that they had their business together due to the amount of time they have remained a staple in the Auto rags, and as a presence on the net, I assumed wrong.

She called to place an order for tires we had found using their website sizing guide. When she spoke with a representative on the phone, he recomended a different tire to meet her needs. The tire he recomended was a 55 sidewall tire. My friend, who knows very little about tire sizing accepted the recomendation, paid via credit card, and the first part of the transaction was completed.

Upon reciept of the tires, something struck me as odd. They seemed WAY to tall for her car. Upon taking them to the install location, we set one of the new tires next to one of the old tires still mounted on the rim. The new tires were incredibly tall by comparison. My friends Prelude was about to become a monster truck.

My friend then told me what had happened when she ordered, so I whipped out the old Cell Phone, and placed a call to customer service. I explained that these tires were not factory spec, and that we were dissatisfied with the recomendation, furthur, I looked up the recomended tire sizes for the Preludes 16" rim, and there was only one size listed: a 50 sidewall.
I ask if we can return the tires.
They tell me yes, I can.
I ask directly if our shipping cost will be refunded (**important later**) I am told it will be taken care of when they recieve the tires.
We scoot over to the shipping company, dish out $80.00, and return the tires.
Next day comes, my friend gets a phone call. They (Tire Rack) just called to clarify that we will not be refunded our shipping cost... Wait a second.

Why call back to clarify? Maybe because they knew they had already given us false information the night before? Me thinks that is it.
But the tires are already shipped...
A week goes by, She (my friend) gets a call to assure her that a credit has been issued to her card.

But what about the shipping? Asks my friend
I'll call you back. Says Customer service.

Two days, no call.

My friend calls again: "I was told shipping would be refunded."
TireRack: We never said that. (These are not direct quotes, but you get the drift right?)

I get a phone call, my friend is very upset, asks me what she should do. I tell her to have them call me, since I was the one they told that shipping would be refunded. I never recieved a call.

My friend gets an email from the Tire Rack stating that the only way she could have gotten a refund for shipping is if she had sent two tires back FedEx, and Two Tires back UPS, instead of sending them all together.

What kind of B.S. is that? Now they are saying she coould have gotten the shipping refunded? And they still aren't admitting to telling me that shipping would be refunded in the first place.

Finally, my friend gets a supervisor on the phone. The supervisor tries to tell her the tires would have been fine (aside from "The Great SideWall of China" they might have been) and that the installer lied about the tires not fitting since he hadn't gotten to sell her the tires. (If you remember, it was me who looked up the proper sizing, not the installer)
My friend asked about the refund on shipping, and was finally granted half of her shipping charge refunded, although they still wouldn't admit to haveing promised a full refund. The manager also accused me of lieing about what I was told. (I am still waiting for my phone call...)

Lots of liars in this scenario don't you think? Everyone but the Tire Rack if you buy their side of the story. We have crooked installers, and crooked friends, but their is always the altruistic Tire Rack, they couldn't have mistakenly told me that the shipping was refunded, nope. I am a liar, and that is the mistake! (According to them)

My mistake was in ever recomending such a backward company to a friend. My mistake was in ever doing business with them.

I won't ever make that mistake again, and i suggest you save yourself some heartache, and avoid my mistakes as well.

Phil

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[nsxtasy]

I find this very surprising, because the Tire Rack is well known for being very customer service oriented. I have ordered from them numerous times with no problems whatsoever.

I am not doubting your version of events, Phil. Nor am I saying that a bunch of good results make up for a dissatisfying result. And I'm not making excuses for them. I am only pointing out that they are usually very good at customer service, and that this episode is certainly not typical.

 

[H-carWizKid]

I understand your contention Ken. Unfortunantly this is the reality of this transaction.
I don't know why it happened this way. I don't know why I was told one thing one day, then my friend was called the following day with a retraction... (but I can guess that they called to cover their butt after they discovered that they had made a mistake)

This whole thing could have been avoided if..
1. I hadn't been given false information about the refund for the return shipping.

2. They had handled the mistake once it had occurred with a level of professional courtesy, rather than with this weird denial call...

3. If they had contacted me back directly, since they have accused me of passing false information. Why won't they call me? Why wouldn't they call my friend with the answers to her questions?

I think it all comes down to one thing. The Customer Service Rep who we dealt with is not professional.

Needless to say, I am soured with this vendor now.

I posted this information here because I do not want to see a fellow enthusiast get burned the way we did (my friend is still out half her shipping charge).

The pathetic thing about all of this is that my friend was still planning to re-order from them once the credit was in place. She planned to order the tires we had originally picked out once they had credited her card.

That won't be happening now...

I was looking at 17" SSRs, and Kumho Ecsta 712's for my car on their website... NaGonnaDoIt

They have lost my faith, and with that, the potential business I might have brung.

Phil

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[Number9]

Lodge a written dispute with your (her?) credit card company and document all the charges. She won't have to pay during the pendancy of the dispute and if your facts are straight, then she probably won't have to pay at all. Life will be good - eventually...

 

[H-carWizKid]

Just to be clear... We did recieve full credit for the returned tires. They just welched on the refund of the shipping.

How do we lodge a cc complaint against TheTireRack for a charge made at FedEx? We are trying to recoup the shipping charge for the return of the tires, which was made seperate from the purchase.

Money isn't as much of an issue here as is the poor way our problem was managed.

Ultimately we recieved a $40.00 credit for the shipping, so I will take the loss, and never recomend their service again. Not only that, but I will wear my dissatisfaction on my sleave all over the internet, just as I have done here.

Phil

[This message has been edited by H-carWizKid (edited 12 September 2002).]

 

[TheSwishh]

Hmmm. that is odd. I have done several transactions with them and have had nothing but excellent service and product.

Maybe the associate was new???

 

[huckster]

sounds like you got involved in a little cya scenario.

hate to say it, but paying shipping on a 'mistake' would be one thing. but most vendors would not pay shipping on a product that the customer 'chose' to buy, irregardless of whose advice the customer was following in making that choice.

the original guy had it right, they should have paid shipping for a 'stupid' recommendation. what you learned is that you cant trust tirerack to tell you what tires you should buy. too bad the supervisor didnt back up the original guy when he said they pay the shipping for their dumb advice.

but again, i dont think tirerack did anything unusual in regards to their 'we dont pay shipping policy' for a customer's change of mind.

 

[BoostedMR2]

H-carWizKid,

It occurs to me that Tire Rack may have a policy of only contacting the purchaser (credit card holder) if there is a dispute regarding the transaction. This is why you have likely been kept out of the loop and your phone calls have not been returned. It also occurs to me that this policy is likely in place to protect the privacy of buyers and avoid precisely these kinds of "he said/she said" disputes as it limits the number of parties pointing fingers to two. If you have more than two parties engaged in a transaction, it would be far too easy to end up in a "Seven Samurai" scenario where everyone has a different recollection of events and conflicting instructions may have been given.

I don't want to blame the victim here, as your account of events seems to put the blame largely on Tire Rack's shoulders. That said, one lesson from all of this would be to order the tires for your less-than-car-savvy friend yourself and have her reimburse you. I run into this kind of scenario all the time when my wife, sister or mom takes their car in for service at the dealership. Inevitably, I get a frantic phone call later that afternoon about some expensive repair that doesn't make sense to them. I have since taken it upon myself to make a point of dropping off and picking up each of their cars any time they need service as I am in a better position to evaluate an estimate or understand what does/doesn't need to be done based on the service writer's recommendation than they are. It might take time out of my day to handle all this for them, but I figure I'm actually saving time by not having to decipher the inevitable "he said, so I said, so he said" kinds of disputes.

-- DavidV

------------------
Get Boosted!
www.boostedgroup.com

 

[H-carWizKid]

Just so that I can get your sentiment straight...

It is somehow o.k. that TheTireRack failed to live up to its obligation to provide professional guidance to their customer because my friend, and their customer is a girl, and knows very little about cars?

Their service should CATER to those kind of customers. They should assume you are an idiot who can't even read the numbers off the sidewall when you call, then they should be explaining, and reasoning with the customer to find the tire that fits best.

Instead, my friend got railroaded into a set of more expensive tires that were of greater diameter than her stock tires, and they have yet to explain why.

At what point did the rep do his job correctly? He recomended the wrong tires for her vehicle, and driving conditions.

Do I think it is fair that they should own their mistakes, even when it is going to cost them more than the origional transaction? YES! I do. They run a mail order type service, shipping charges are part of the game, if they made a mistake (and they did) then a good customer service company would own that mistake, and attempt to rectify it, or at least offer a settlement to the dissatisfied customer (25% off on your correct tire purchase? Something of that nature...)
The Tire Rack failed in every way to satisfy the needs of my friend, and they even insulted us to boot.

I have no use for such a vendor, and suggest you be weary if you decide to do business with them.

Phil

 

[BoostedMR2]

Originally posted by H-carWizKid:
Just so that I can get your sentiment straight...

It is somehow o.k. that TheTireRack failed to live up to its obligation to provide professional guidance to their customer because my friend, and their customer is a girl, and knows very little about cars?

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

If that is what you took away from my post, then either I didn't express myself well or for some reason you didn't see my point.

I agree that based on your description of events, Tire Rack is absolutely in the wrong both for recommending an inappropriate tire and for reneging on their offer to absorb the cost of return shipping. I only added the following observations:

(1) Tire Rack's not returning your call is likely attributable to a policy of dealing solely with the credit card holder in transaction disputes. I then went on to describe why companies often choose to use such policies (my Seven Samurai example).

(2) Because poor customer service like your friend experienced is unfortunately all too common in the automotive world, and you appear to be a saavy automotive consumer, in the future you might consider using my approach of dealing one-on-one with vendors. It absolutely should not be the case the lesser-informed car owners (including as a subset many [but not ALL] females) often find themselves at the mercy of unprofessional salesmen and service writers. However, so long as this remains the norm, I have found that it is personally easier and less of a hassle for me to deal with these characters up front than by coming in and helping to sort out the mess after a dispute has already arisen.

Is that any clearer?

-- DavidV

------------------
Get Boosted!
www.boostedgroup.com


[This message has been edited by BoostedMR2 (edited 12 September 2002).]

 

[Lud]

It's pretty hard to make much of a judgement from a third-party account. You are obviously emotionally invested in this, but let's step back for a minute.

First, we are talking about 1cm difference in sidewall height. It sounds like you don't like that, but are you trying to say they were actually not going to work? A stock height Prelude would easily accomodate 1cm in additional sidewall height as far as I can recall.

Obviously your friend told them something that caused them to end up sending a different-than-OEM tire. I have no idea what that was, and it sounds like you were not involved in the conversation either, but I know I order non-OEM size tires all the time and I have to specify it. You say their recommendation was "wrong," but you haven't said why. Since we are missing that part of the story, we can't know if they made a recommendation in error or not.

Finally, you said they reimbursed you $40 out of $80.

So they only made two mistakes I can actually put a finger on at this point.

1) Poor communication, but as others have pointed out, you were not the customer so they have no obligation to keep you in the loop.

2) Not specifying the limit of the shipping reimbursement. Obviously there has to be some kind of limit!

To be honest I am surprised they would reimburse any shipping when the tires were the ones that were ordered. I think that is a sign that they ARE really a customer-service oriented company as a whole even if you had some issues getting this all straightened out and/or dealt with a couple less-than-stellar people on the phone.

BTW it also seems odd that you had to "ship them back" and then get reimbursed. I had a return to TireRack one time when they shipped me an incorrect item, and they issued a call tag (or pickup tag or whatever it's called). The shipper came and picked the tires up. I didn't have to pay anything out of pocket or even take them to a shipping center. Did you coordinate this return with Tire Rack, or just ask if it was possible to return the tires and then ship them back? If they told you to ship them back, I wonder if it was a new-guy mistake or if they have really changed that policy. Weird.

[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 12 September 2002).]

 

[H-carWizKid]

Originally posted by Lud:

First, we are talking about 1cm difference in sidewall height. It sounds like you don't like that, but are you trying to say they were actually not going to work? A stock height Prelude would easily accomodate 1cm in additional sidewall height as far as I can recall.

This is what the TireRack Rep said, but when compared to the existing tire, the new ones looked like baloons. I saw that for myself. They may have fit, but they weren't going to be the "best fit", which is what should have been offered.

Obviously your friend told them something that caused them to end up sending a different-than-OEM tire. I have no idea what that was, and it sounds like you were not involved in the conversation either, but I know I order non-OEM size tires all the time and I have to specify it.

She wanted OEM tires, they recommended the bigger ones... This is not a mystery, we knew what the spec size was. The rep who is supposed to be an "expert" on tires convinced my friend, who is not an expert that this upsizing would be of little or no consequence. He was wrong, the tires were unsatisfactory. Why did he offer them in the first place? I still don't know. I sent my friend to the phone with specific instructions, and size data, why didn't they just process her order?

You say their recommendation was "wrong," but you haven't said why. Since we are missing that part of the story, we can't know if they made a recommendation in error or not.

They were too big, and although they might have cleared the wheel wells, they were innappropriate for her car.

Finally, you said they reimbursed you $40 out of $80.

After repeated phone calls on our part, yes we finally squeezed $40.00 from the rock.

So they only made two mistakes I can actually put a finger on at this point.

1) Poor communication, but as others have pointed out, you were not the customer so they have no obligation to keep you in the loop.
I was the one who initially spoke with Customer service. I am the one they told they would reimburse for shipping. I am also the person they accused of lying about what I was told. I think they owed me a clarification phone call, don't you?

2) Not specifying the limit of the shipping reimbursement. Obviously there has to be some kind of limit!

We were told to ship the tires back, I was told to include a copy of the receipt so that they could process the credit faster. I did this.

To be honest I am surprised they would reimburse any shipping when the tires were the ones that were ordered. I think that is a sign that they ARE really a customer-service oriented company as a whole even if you had some issues getting this all straightened out and/or dealt with a couple less-than-stellar people on the phone.

I don't define a company that forced us to apply the level of pressure we had to apply in order to get our partial refund as:"customer service oriented". I do not have very high regard for a company that would employ such sustandard customer service personel either.

Your employees are the public image of your business.
From my experience with the Tire Rack... Their face is in a cow pie.

BTW it also seems odd that you had to "ship them back" and then get reimbursed. I had a return to TireRack one time when they shipped me an incorrect item, and they issued a call tag (or pickup tag or whatever it's called). The shipper came and picked the tires up. I didn't have to pay anything out of pocket or even take them to a shipping center. Did you coordinate this return with Tire Rack, or just ask if it was possible to return the tires and then ship them back? If they told you to ship them back, I wonder if it was a new-guy mistake or if they have really changed that policy. Weird.


[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 12 September 2002).][/B]

Yet for some reason, this is what we were told. "Ship them back to get your refund". I asked about reimbursement for the shipping charge, and I was told it would be done.
The next day my friend got a call to purposely state that shipping wasn't included in her refund credit.

I think the girl was trying to cover her butt, obviously your view differs from experience.

You are happy,

I am angry.

I guess we have just had different experiences haven't we?

Phil

 

[H-carWizKid]

Originally posted by BoostedMR2:
ABSOLUTELY NOT.

If that is what you took away from my post, then either I didn't express myself well or for some reason you didn't see my point.

(2) Because poor customer service like your friend experienced is unfortunately all too common in the automotive world, and you appear to be a saavy automotive consumer, in the future you might consider using my approach of dealing one-on-one with vendors. It absolutely should not be the case the lesser-informed car owners (including as a subset many [but not ALL] females) often find themselves at the mercy of unprofessional salesmen and service writers. However, so long as this remains the norm, I have found that it is personally easier and less of a hassle for me to deal with these characters up front than by coming in and helping to sort out the mess after a dispute has already arisen.

Is that any clearer?

-- DavidV

Yes. Crystal. Thank you for the clarification. Sorry about my curt response. I am a little hot on this subject right now.

I appreciate the feed back I am getting from this thread, lots of good advice on how to avoid these hassels in the future.

I have had dealings with TheTireRack in the past (I bought my Suspension from them). I too found their regular ordering process to be efficient, and simple.

But

I think it is safe to say based upon this experience; When things go wrong, they have the potential to go seriously wrong in a big hurry. Watch your back, and get two person integrity on everything they say just to be sure you haven't gotten an inexperienced Customer Service Rep who is ready to say anything to get off the phone.

I honestly believe that this is what happened to us, I am seriously pissed about it, but in the end, I guess it is just another case of "Buyer Beware" (thanks Mr. Brady)

This thread was ment as a heads up... I hope you guys look out for yourselves better than I looked out for my friend.

Phil



[This message has been edited by H-carWizKid (edited 13 September 2002).]

 

[Lud]

First let me get something straight. I am generally a happy Tire Rack customer, but I am not a Tire Rack devotee. I order from Discount Tires and other sources as well - whoever has the best deal on the tires I am ordering gets my business. I have no vested interest in Tire Rack or any other tire company. I do, however, have the advantage of being a disinterested third party, whereas you are personally involved and "hot" about the issue.

That being said, I do not agree that they sent the "wrong" tires. The tires fit the car. The sidewall is 1cm higher than stock. You feel (and maybe she) feel this does not look right, but it is an acceptable fit for the car by any technical measure.

You yourself said you do not know what happened when your friend called. Obviously there was some discussion, the result of which was that they recommended a different tire. Maybe the DID make a bad recommendation, but maybe you or I would have made the same recommendation based on the conversation. The point is we do not know what was discussed, and nobody here will ever hear more than one side of that story anyway.

You may be the one who talked to customer service, but you are still not the customer. So no, I do not think they OWED you a phone call. Should they have provided one as a courtesy? Probably.

It sounds like you were dealing with an inexperienced rep. That is not your fault, but at the same time you haven't dealt with many service companies if you've never dealt with a poor service rep. Even the BEST service companies in the WORLD have new, inexperienced, and flat-out bad customer service people. They just have fewer of them.

So, since no company is perfect, the key to avoiding situations like this is the same for any situation. Get the full name / extension of everyone who promises you something. Get important promises in writing (like a full refund for shipping). If you are working with a company that cares about customer service, they will take care of you if you have these things even if a particular bad customer service rep will not. They will probably also get rid of that rep soon.

Also, try to make things work in YOUR best interest even if that is not their first offer - i.e. ask for a call tag for return shipping even if they do not offer it at first. Then there is no exposure on your end and no opportunity for things to go wrong and piss you off or waste your time.

I am not telling you to like Tire Rack or to buy from them again. But I do think you are disproportionately PO'd about this given the circumstances. You may think I just don't get it, and that's fine too.

[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 13 September 2002).]

 

[ck]

Just order your tires from their website. That way, you don't have to deal with any dumb service reps.

I never call to place orders from companies that do most of their business online. They always mess it up when you call. I have used Tirerack and thepartsbin.com dozens of times with no problems. Then, I recommeded thepartsbin.com to a friend and he made the mistake of calling in and didn't get his parts for weeks. I don't know what happens when you call in, but I think they connect you to the first monkey who answers the phone and somehow finds a way to botch your order. That said, I have only had good experience wiht tirerack and it is their policy to send a call tag out for returns. I understand you had a bad experience, we all have with some companies. Hell, I've always warned everyone that Vic from Discount Tire is a prick but many others seem to disagree while some agree. Every individual experience is going to be different with any company. The same thing could have happened with Discount tire or whoever. I think e-commerce in general caters to the more web and product savvy in general. Next time, just take care of the order yourself up front instead of trying to cleanup afterwards.

Off-Topic:
Boosted MR2,
Did I meet you at the Supra meet at Marina Green awhile back?

Chris

 

[BoostedMR2]

Originally posted by ck:

Off-Topic:
Boosted MR2,
Did I meet you at the Supra meet at Marina Green awhile back?

Chris

Hi Chris,

Yes, you did! I did not have my MR2 there at the time (my buddies and I took my wife's car) but I do recall meeting you there.

-- DavidV

------------------
Get Boosted!
www.boostedgroup.com

 

[H-carWizKid]

Lud, I realize I may be reading as argumentative here. I apologize for that. I have no beef with you, or your opinions. I accept your advice, and appreciate you offering it.
I know you might be thinking I am blowing a small thing out of proportion, but you didn't get called a liar by a business you had just previously raved about to your friend.

I know there are poor customer service reps out there, I used to work with them when I worked in customer service for a bank.

Is that really an excuse?

I don't mean to sound utopian, but
1. If the representative was going to offer a recomendation, shouldn't he have explored her needs/ desires prior to making one?
2. Shouldn't customer service reps be an advocate for the customer rather than an obstacle?
3. Shouldn't they return phone calls when they say they will?
4. When they have failed, isn't it the job of the person in a supervisory position to untangle the mess they have caused, rather than inflame it by making unfounded accusational remarks?

These are all the places where I feel TheTireRack failed, and these are the reasons I am ticked. These are the reasons I am disappointed in TheTireRack, and that is the purpose of my post. I just wanted to share this experience, vent a little, and give some fellow enthusiasts a heads up.

I certainly didn't want to come off like some hot head spouting angry epithets based upon unfounded accusations.

I apologize if this is how I ended up coming off.

Once again, thanks to all who gave advice. I will take it with me as a guideline in the future.

Phil

 

[docjohn]

Like Lud I'm not taking sides here,my only comment about tire rack and my dealings with many different reps(with my cars) is that the organization is conservative to a fault.I have to really convince them to go out of spec for my cars.I have never seen them recomend a tire out of oem spec if in same size wheel,and if +1 or+2 is always close to stock rolling diameter,therefore Lud and I are both thinking that there is some x factor that was said and we are not privy to that caused this untword event,imho.

 

[BoostedMR2]

Originally posted by ck:
Off-Topic:
Boosted MR2,
Did I meet you at the Supra meet at Marina Green awhile back?

Chris

BTW: Chris (and any of you guys from the SF Bay Area), I will be showing my car at the Mazda Extreme event ( http://www.mazdaextremestreet.com/index.php )which is part of the American Lemans series at Laguna Seca next Sunday (the 22nd) if any of you local guys are interested in meeting up.

-- DavidV

------------------
Get Boosted!
www.boostedgroup.com

[This message has been edited by BoostedMR2 (edited 13 September 2002).]

 

[huckster]

if you want a really really honest opinion, i think their only mistake was really in ever telling you they'd pay the shipping, and then not backing up the guy who said they'd pay for the shipping. your service level expectations may be a little excessive. not trying to rile you up, but i know that i personally appreciate it when someone tells me i'm over-reacting. most people wont tell you their true opinion, and finding someone who will is always a real asset. there are some companies who would charge you for changing your mind in this sort of scenario. you dont really know what your friend said and she should be ok with tirerack trading the tires back in for what she really wants. you were overpromised and under-delivered, but they are making it right. at least i think this is what ann landers would have said

 

[SJJ28]

What year make and model is the car?

What size tire was on it?

What size (width) wheel is on it? are they OE?

What size tires did they send you??

Steve

------------------
Steve
91 NSX
01 MDX
02 M3 SMG

 

[nsx2000]

Originally posted by BoostedMR2:
Hi Chris,

Yes, you did! I did not have my MR2 there at the time (my buddies and I took my wife's car) but I do recall meeting you there.

-- DavidV

Boost MR-2
I remember meeting you in Don's auto for the Basch demo in Feburary too. You explain to me how the water vaporazer in your MR-2.

 

[Tjoines]

I apologize I did not call from your email. When I looked into the situation further the notes showed that we had discussed the situation with the customer and come to a resolution.

I agree that it seems we did not handle the conversations with you as well as we should have. When you first called in with the concern over the size tire we should have discussed the issue further.
I Feel I need to add a little background on how we help customers pick the best tires for their specific situation. We make every effort to pick the best tire for the customer. We look at a variety of parameters when helping a customer to select a tire. We consider the car and but more importantly we consider what the customer is looking for. Unfortunately there is not a tire that can do all so every tire compromises one area to be better in another. For example at tire that is great in the snow is not going to be a great choice for hard summer driving. All of our sales reps come from professional sales backgrounds and receive 6 to 8 weeks of training before they talk to a customer. We also have 3 IS300s and 3 grand Cherokees that our reps spend 80 hours a year in testing tires. We run a "real world" test over public roads so we can offer advise on how the tires will work in everyday use. We also run instrumented track tests so we can advise on how the tires respond and differ from one another at the limit. (The track portion is in the Lexus' only of course.) We have been doing these tests for almost 10 years and have built up a huge base of knowledge on the tires we sell.
Our reps also "talk tires" all day long. It is their profession and they take it seriously. We gain much knowledge talking to customers about what sizes they like ton their cars and what tires they have used and how they liked them.
We have 6 full time product specialists to help verify fitments and test optional sizes on the various products we offer.

The above is not meant to brag but to illustrate our commitment to offering the best advice on picking product. We do not make off the cuff recommendations. We would not invest the amount of recourses we do in testing and training if we did not feel so strongly that we need to be the most knowledgeable option for selecting the products we offer.

In his conversation with our customer our representative felt she was looking for a good riding tire that will give her good wear and good poor weather traction at a reasonable price. The original equipment 205/50 16 size does not offer tires that best meet her needs. The few all season tires we have in this size are more performance than all season. They are designed to retain better steering response and cornering at the expense of ride comfort and snow traction. Most are also 20 to 50% more expensive than the tire we helped her chose.

We do not limit our size recommendations to what Honda recommends. (I would guess many members of this forum have modified their NSX with products that Acura would frown upon, but work great.) We added 205/55 16 to our list of optional sizes because our customers wanted more choice, we found the fit well and feedback from customers who have used the size has been very positive. When new, the 205/55 16 is only 8/10ths of an inch taller over all, Or less than 1/2 inch per sidewall. The tires over all dimensions, including height, is measured mounted on a wheel. A worn tire is about 1/2 shorter than a new full tread depth tire. The visual inspection you made was comparing a full tread depth tire uncounted to a used mounted tire. (My assumption is that the tire was off the car. If it was on the car the overall height of the tire is reduced by 1/2 to 3/4 inches further.) Installed on the car the 205/55 16 tire is very similar visually to the 205/50 16. Some customers prefer the look as it fills up the large fender well arches on the Prelude better. Some prefer the lower profile look. We try to find the product that is best for the individual customer and remove our own personal preferences from the equation. (I personally prefer a very low profile tire that gives fast response and high limits in the dry on my car. To get this I give up much comfort, the tires are louder and I cannot drive them in even a dusting of snow. I use a considerably different tire on my wife’s car.)

We also feel a customer has some responsibility to make sure they are getting the tire they want before we ship it. If she had further questions we would have been very happy to answer them. We could have held the order while she checked with you if she was basing her decision on your advice.

When we make a clear mistake we do take care of the full return and original freight. If the customer simply wants to return then we feel they are responsible for the freight. In a case such as this we feel there is a shared responsibility. The size does work well on the car, the customer agreed on our recommendation but upon further reflection and advise from others she felt she and the sales rep came to an incorrect decision. The representative should have been clearer about this.
We should have taken the opportunity to discuss the decision further when you called back with your concerns. Unless she drives her car at its limits often the 205/55 16 are a great choice for the car and give her many more options on tire designs.
Our customer service representative did feel, as she noted on our system when talking with you that she stated the return would be less freight. Obviously there was a misunderstanding. Her call the next day was because she was not clear the tires were unused and wanted to verify the tires were not driven on. At that point it became clearer that there was a misunderstanding about the freight. We did credit the original $32.76 freight on the order. We were also surprised that she was charged over twice that to return the tires.
We are not saying you are being untruthful. It does seem that there was not a clear understanding by our representative of what you expected. Unfortunately there have been several conversations between 5 different people and coming to agreement on what all was said will not be completely possible.
I felt we had come to an agreement with the customer that was equitable and agreeable to the customer. We did take responsibility for $75.00 in shipping charges and the customer did not express to our representative that she felt this was unfair after the last conversation. We did not understand that she still had concerns about this.
I would be happy to discuss this further with you or her if she still feels we are being unreasonable in asking her to take partial responsibility for the decision made on the size. Please contact me directly if I can assist

Tim Joines
Sales Manager
The Tire Rack
1 800 428 8355 ext 303
[email protected]


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Tim Joines
Sales Manager
The Tire Rack
1 800 428 8355 ext 303
[email protected]

 

[DocL]

Wow.......the fact that Tim responed to this thread on a public forum only gives proof that TireRack is truly concerned about customer relations. For the past 15 years I have been ordering tires from them, and not once have I ever had a problem. In fact, I recieve a Christmas card from them every year! I don't disagree with you Phil, but I do think that there were "too many chefs" in this situation, and the that may have lead to the misunderstanding. I personally never knew about the R&D and training within TireRack, but everything that Tim mentioned only gives me more confidence in their company. I now know why they have always answered my questions so promptly when talking with them on the phone.

I really feel that you should give them a secod chance Phil. Remember, we're only human and sometimes mistakes can be made. In this case, like almost any other case, the mistake/misunderstanding was so miniscule that declaring a boycott against them is truly an overaction.

Just my $.02.

BTW Tim, I'll be calling your extension directly for all my future orders.

-Cheers

[This message has been edited by Dr.Lane (edited 14 September 2002).]

 

[H-carWizKid]

Originally posted by Dr.Lane:
Wow.......the fact that Tim responed to this thread on a public forum only gives proof that TireRack is truly concerned about customer relations.

I really feel that you should give them a secod chance Phil. Remember, we're only human and sometimes mistakes can be made.

Just my $.02.

BTW Tim, I'll be calling your extension directly for all my future orders.

-Cheers

Agreed. 100% This is an exceptional response, and pleases me beyond expectations.

Thank you for the point of clarification Tim.

The missing input on the situation is pretty clearly explained in Tim's post, and I can finally see the events from their side.

My feelings on the subject have been the result of my own dissatisfaction with the process involved in obtaining a resolution. I have felt ignored by the vendor.

I guess that is the reason they call it a "misunderstanding".

I have a very high level of respect for a company which faces problems proactively. You have demonstrated to me that all is certainly not lost at TheTireRack.

Thank you Tim.

Phil

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[This message has been edited by H-carWizKid (edited 15 September 2002).]

[This message has been edited by H-carWizKid (edited 15 September 2002).]