This is truly the most disturbing thing I have ever heard

[Accomplice]

I was illustrating how silly it is to read something without verifying it, then basing an argument on it.

My point is that the pig treatment sounded about as believable as my approach. Excuse me for using humor.
You enjoy putting words in other people's mouths, don't you? I never said that a problem doesn't exist, I was merely arguing with your approach to solving it.

In your mind, I guess I have failed to counter your argument. However, I have made multiple points about why your approach (remember, this started with your proposed peace plan that advocated nuking Mecca) is asinine, overly simplistic, juvenile, and not grounded in reality. Let me summarize my arguments (which you must have missed) and clarify or add some other ones:

1. You are advocating murdering millions of innocent people to combat a very small, radical group of nuts. Innocent men, women and children will die in your plan. You see no issue with that?
2. You are making an incredible assumption that taking out Mecca would make all the radicals give up.
3. You are also assuming that people who are sympathizing with the terrorists will stop supporting them. I claim that they will become even more convinced of that what they are doing is right, and millions of others who were not supporting them at the time, now will.
4. Killing millions of Muslims in a nuclear bombing will produce millions of martyrs, reinforcing the image of the USA being an evil giant.
5. What happens if we do bomb Mecca, and it doesn't work out the way you foresee it? What's next? On to the next Muslim holy site? Or will it be one of the major Muslim cities?
6. We will have NO allies left in the world. The entire rest of the world will condemn us. Diplomatic ties will be severed. Trade will cease. Economy goes down the tubes, etc, etc.

And I'm not even listing the obvious effects of using nuclear weapons.

I know these points are all silly, and pale in comparison to your well-thought out plan.

I'll be honest, I don't have a solution. But, no solution is better than an idiotic solution like yours. I think we should all be happy that you are nowhere near being in charge.

Oh and we'd all be better off with a guy like you in charge. A guy who barely admits there is a problem let alone has any solutions for it.

I didn't just blindly accept the pig thing. Most people have heard about the Muslims aversion to swine. I didn't realize that you'd never heard anything about that before this thread. They do consider it taboo to be exposed to it under many circumstances (in death, etc.).

The 'nuke Mecca' comment was a bit incendiary. I'll admit it. By the time that nuking Mecca actually looks like a politically viable option, the radical Muslims (condoned by the inaction of the 'peaceful' Muslims) will have committed so many horrible acts that the civilized world will undertake this mission in unison as a last ditch effort to spare an all out assault on Muslim population centers. If we find that Muslims can't or won't contain their radicals, the best bet may be to covertly place something in Mecca to expose pilgrims to deadly doses of radiation. If the goal is to rock the pillars of Islam then creating a scenario under which they are forced to equate their holiest city with sickness might serve the cause. The negative impact on the health of women and children would be tragic but any inaction that leads to them thrive unabated to a future life condoning or committing acts of terror against civilized people would be a far greater tragedy.

 

[SCS2k]

So now you're not even sure if the worst of them are even in the wrong because none of us are capable of being objective judges of their madness? I guess we should just sit back and let them do to us and their own people whatever they want because we're not fit to judge these horrific acts as wrong. To read my posts and see them as 'nutty' is simply to fail to comprehend the scale of the threat that radical Islam represents. I hope that that minority is correct and we're all just misunderstanding these poor oppressed people.

Edit: for those of you not capable of spotting the 'nutty few' in a crowd, its the guys stabbing the necks of unarmed, bound non-combat personnel, not the guys calling the neck stabers the 'nutty few'. All clear now?

Actually I didn't say anything at all about my opinion. I merely asked 'who gets to decide?'. I also did not say none of us are capable of being objective. I asked 'who gets to decide?'. I did not suggest sitting back and doing nothing either nor did I call your posts 'nutty', I just said they could be interpreted as being nutty by some. Nuking millions of innocent people may not be condidered mainstream by everyone.

Just so you are clear, if I see someone stabbing an unarmed, bound man in the neck, I most certainly would try to intervene but I wouldn't feel it necessary to blow up everyone with the same religious belief system as the attackers nor would I find it necessary to nuke the city in which it takes place.

 

[Bryant95]

Anti-Jewish Incidents in Europe

[B
They don't have the same level of security that we do. Their cops are running scared, because they don't have control of the country. ...

You talk real tough while living in an environment that allows you to run your mouth without fear of reprisal. I'd love to see how tough you would be when thrown into Iraq. [/B]

Try France. Running scared, and insecure environment.

Since September 2000, hoodlums in France have attacked Jews and burned synagogues.

Children attack Jewish children. Insults and battery await a child going to school, at school, or coming home from school.

Jew-hating children interrupt classes, and threaten the teacher if the teacher tries to mention the Holocaust.

In the Netherlands, the Dutch dedicate May 3 to remembering their losses to World War II and the Holocaust. May 3, 2003, youngsters interrupted a moment of silence with nasty anti-Jewish slogans.

France has the largest Jewish community in Western Europe, numbering some 600,000 or 700,000 people. France also has the largest Muslim community in Western Europe, numbering some 5 million people. Muslims suffer high unemployment and frequent discrimination; in place of education, some kids get indoctrination.

Here are snippits of reports from Tel Aviv University's Stephen Roth Institute for the Study of Contemporary Anti-Semitism and Racism.

From France: "On 17 January 2004, a 15-year-old Jewish boy was attacked by four young North African immigrants with a pair of ice skates. Parisian police apprehended the attackers."

From Belgium: "The assault on the chief rabbi of Brussels, Albert Guigui, by a gang of youths of North African origin in December 2001...prompted no public expressions of outrage."

From Denmark: "Stones were thrown by a gang of young Arabs at the family of a former president of the Jewish community in Copenhagen; a young Jew, apparently identifiable because he wore a Star of David, was threatened, and eventually kicked and throttled by a group of Arabs at a health center; a Danish Jewish shop owner in Copenhagen was attacked and knifed by a gang of Palestinian youths near his shop; and a Jewish woman working in a video rental store was verbally abused and beaten by four Arab youths."

From France: "For example, on 10 April 2002 a group of Arab youths stoned a bus parked beside the Lubavitch Gan Menahem Jewish school.... One child was injured and some windows were broken. A month later, a 16-year-old Jewish youth was assaulted in Bordeaux by a group of eight Muslims who studied in the same school."


A bright spot from Denmark: "On 25 May 2002, three Danish-Palestinians, Naser Khader, Hanna Ziadeh and Mahmoud Issa, published a full-page article in Danish and Arabic, in the large-circulation daily Politiken, asking Danish Muslims to refrain from antisemitism."


http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2002-3/belgium.htm http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2002-3/france.htm http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2002-3/denmark.htm http://132.66.58.20/ALEPH/eng/ASM/ASM/ASM/FIND-CONT/All^Documents/383802?OP1=AND&FIND=All+Fields&VALUE=skates http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3282335.stm

 

[cmhs75]

IMO it is time to pull out the troops and drop the big one, start over from scratch, any other country that has a problem with it will get the same treatment.

We need to stop pussy footing around and show we are done putting up with any Bull Shit.

Hie Hitler

 

[cmhs75]

If all of the decent Muslims refuse to contain and reprogram the 10% (25%? 50%?) that are completely and utterly insane and murderous we will be forced to bring consequences upon the faithfull as a whole.

I'm Muslim and most of my friends are Muslims, I didn't see any of them support this action. Even the media here in Saudi Arabia are screaming out load against such acts because simply, it's done under the name of Islam and it has nothing to do with such acts !

We too had bombings and lost a lot of people. Bombings are so regular here that last night when I accidentally dropped my luggage bag at the train station, everyone jumped (they thought it was a bomb).


The reason for the outrage is back to the Middle East conflict of Palestine. When you step on people, anger is bound to surface, and when this anger is mixed with a twisted state of mind ( which exists in all nations), this is what you get. But blaming it on Muslims and of the Arab race is just another act of racism.

Just look at the crusaders. they just didn't like Muslims so they decided to kill them all off. But the end result was their failure and the religion far spreading than ever before. Islam spreads a lot faster in peace than it does at war, we don't need bombers on our side. And prosecuting us on their behalf is ludicrous.

 

[cmhs75]

NUKEM is my answer to Irag/Iran/N. Korea

Why stop there?

Why not nuke Japan and Germany to stop them from challenging the US market and to stop any potential threat in the future while you still can, Russia goes in that category as well.

And wait a minute, how about Saudi Arabia, yeah that's a great Idea if you nuke Mecca, you will destroy a whole religion, oh speaking of destroying a whole religion , Israel, yeah, if you nuke Israel you get rid of all the Jewish of the world. Waw what a great idea,

Lets nuke Europe, especially the French, they smell bad. And while were are at it, lets nuke Venus to allow more sun light to penetrate our atmosphere and increase vegetation yields and enslave people to increase production and resurrect Hitler to help with the plan ?

What do you think?

 

[nkb]

Oh and we'd all be better off with a guy like you in charge. A guy who barely admits there is a problem let alone has any solutions for it.

Never said someone like me should be in charge, and never said I had a solution (half-assed or otherwise).
And why do you insist on misrepresenting my views? Please show me the post where I deny there is a problem. No shit there is a problem! But, nuking Mecca is possibly the dumbest solution I have ever heard.

I didn't just blindly accept the pig thing. Most people have heard about the Muslims aversion to swine. I didn't realize that you'd never heard anything about that before this thread. They do consider it taboo to be exposed to it under many circumstances (in death, etc.).

I have heard that Muslims do not eat pork, same as Jewish people. I have never heard of an "aversion" to swine before your bogus story. Did you? Please, since it seems like you are an Islamic expert, share with us some details about the taboos concerning pigs. I'm all ears.

The 'nuke Mecca' comment was a bit incendiary. I'll admit it.

And I have a problem admitting things? How many rounds have we gone now until you finally admit that this is a bit of a far-fetched idea? So, now you're taking a step back, and saying you were just kidding, that's really not the final solution?

By the time that nuking Mecca actually looks like a politically viable option, the radical Muslims (condoned by the inaction of the 'peaceful' Muslims) will have committed so many horrible acts that the civilized world will undertake this mission in unison as a last ditch effort to spare an all out assault on Muslim population centers. If we find that Muslims can't or won't contain their radicals, the best bet may be to covertly place something in Mecca to expose pilgrims to deadly doses of radiation. If the goal is to rock the pillars of Islam then creating a scenario under which they are forced to equate their holiest city with sickness might serve the cause. The negative impact on the health of women and children would be tragic but any inaction that leads to them thrive unabated to a future life condoning or committing acts of terror against civilized people would be a far greater tragedy.

Dude, WAKE UP!!! Nuking Mecca will NEVER be a "politically viable option". What kind of crack are you smoking? You have watched one too many movies, and lost touch with reality. While we're at it, do you think we should also build a moon base with a big "freakin' laser", so we can zap them from space? How about we drill down to the core of the Earth, and then the "red-hot magma" will come up and burn all the Muslims. Or better yet, let's implant little bomb capsules in every Muslim's head, and detonate it when we feel he is being naughty.

As much as I disagree with steveny's point of view, at least he is not off in la-la land. You are embarassing yourself and everyone who originally agreed with you.

 

[cmhs75]

If I was one of the non-nutty Muslims I'd realize that the nuts were going to get us ALL killed and form some sort of alliance with like-minded (non-nutty) people to squash the freaks before they make all non-Muslims want to kill every last Muslim on the planet. There are way more wack jobs in these Islamic countries than our media lets on. A post 9/11 poll of Saudis showed that 80% supported UBL. Lots of Saudis were slaughtering animals in celebration and throwing parties when it happened. The threat is so real and so huge that I can't imagine how little you grasp about what we, our country and our kids will be facing in coming decades. These sporadic horrors provided by un-managed Muslim fanatics will mount and we'll sit on our hands offering pinprick responses for years to come. One day they'll manage to inflict some level of tragedy that will be so massive and so destructive that we will have no choice but to adopt a policy for the destruction of Islamic population centers. That certainty can only be averted from within the world of Islam. As long as they continue to carry the belief that they can win we'll face this nightmare. We need to undermine their entire mythology. Look at any universally held prophecy about the future of Islam as to how a religious center like Mecca is supposed to endure and / or prosper. Then destroy it in a massive thermonuclear display so that they can understand that everything they were forced to study growing up (you know those years when they really should have been taught math and language skills) is a complete farce. That should take the wind out of their sails. It sounds extreme now but the future alternatives will be far direr.

Funny, I was in Saudi Arabia at the 911. I don’t recall any animal massacre, except maybe if you call McDonalds Macchickin a slaughter.

At that time people were, split into three:

1- A minority who thought that this is a complete outrage against humanity at first and Islam at second.
2- A majority who thought that this act was wrong but America had it coming because of their acts abroad. The downside was Americans had to pay for what dirty politicians in Washington were doing
3- A very small twisted minority who applaud the action as a total, which were later forced to admit that it was an act of terrorism.

So, stop making us look like animals, because I'm not

 

[nkb]

Funny, I was in Saudi Arabia at the 911. I don’t recall any animal massacre...

cmhs75, you do realize that Accomplice is pulling stuff out of his butt. We have seen the results of his "research". I'm sure he heard the story about celebratory killing of animals in the same place he learned how to scare Muslim terrorists.

Unfortunately, the grand plan of destroying Mecca must have come straight out of that big cranium of his. How proud he must be.

 

[cmhs75]

Found this online, not sure of its accuracy but it sounds like a viable plan...

HOW TO STOP ISLAMIC TERRORISTS...... it worked once in our History...

Once in U.S. history an episode of Islamic terrorism was very quickly stopped. It happened in the Philippines about 1911, when Gen. John J. Pershing was in command of the garrison. There had been numerous Islamic terrorist attacks, so "Black Jack" told his boys to catch the perps and teach them a lesson.

Forced to dig their own graves, the terrorists were all tied to posts, execution style. The U.S. soldiers then brought in pigs and slaughtered them, rubbing their bullets in the blood and fat. Thus, the terrorists were terrorized; they saw that they would be contaminated with hogs' blood. This would mean that they could not enter Heaven, even if they died as terrorist martyrs.

All but one was shot, their bodies dumped into the grave, and the hog guts dumped atop the bodies. The lone survivor was allowed to escape back to the terrorist camp and tell his brethren what happened to the others. This brought a stop to terrorism in the Philippines for the next 50 years.

Pointing a gun into the face of Islamic terrorists won't make them flinch.

They welcome the chance to die for Allah. Like Gen. Pershing, we must show them that they won't get to Muslim heaven (which they believe has an endless supply of virgins) but instead will die with the hated pigs of the devil.

That's it, you’re a racist.

Stop making fun of the Islamic religion on your posts

What pig's blood and an endless supply of virgins. Strop posting crap on this forum

If you don’t know anything about a religion then stop making comments on it and look for something you do know how to talk about

 

[gheba_nsx]

If we find that Muslims can't or won't contain their radicals, the best bet may be to covertly place something in Mecca to expose pilgrims to deadly doses of radiation. If the goal is to rock the pillars of Islam then creating a scenario under which they are forced to equate their holiest city with sickness might serve the cause. The negative impact on the health of women and children would be tragic but any inaction that leads to them thrive unabated to a future life condoning or committing acts of terror against civilized people would be a far greater tragedy.

You are 34 years old?!

Would you really expose people, millions of them, old/childs/innocents/... to radiation? The nuk'em was a lot better and responsible idea... you probably have no idea (of course) of what dying because of cancer means.

You make Auschwitz look like a bright idea.

 

[Accomplice]

The reports of celebratory Saudis were broadcast on Fox News. I don't simply make things up nkb. That would be your utter lack of exposure to the world around you that makes some facts seem new to you. You're still sore about not having heard about the Muslim pig aversion before this thread. You sure are clueless or a guy who pops off a lot about this stuff. So were you in 'nkb' or were they just your favorite band?

cmhs75, you do realize that Accomplice is pulling stuff out of his butt. We have seen the results of his "research". I'm sure he heard the story about celebratory killing of animals in the same place he learned how to scare Muslim terrorists.

Unfortunately, the grand plan of destroying Mecca must have come straight out of that big cranium of his. How proud he must be.

 

[Accomplice]

That's it, you’re a racist.

Stop making fun of the Islamic religion on your posts

What pig's blood and an endless supply of virgins. Strop posting crap on this forum

If you don’t know anything about a religion then stop making comments on it and look for something you do know how to talk about

You're quite the wordsmith. You've clearly demonstrated in your post that you are the uninformed one. I've never had to take issue with any particular sect, race, etc. before one made it a goal to destroy civilization. I'm not a racist by any stretch and its not even a race were talking about here, you chucklehead. It’s a religion composed of many races. I'm not 'making fun' of them either. Some of them pose a threat that should be obvious to you. It’s laughable that you'd rather shoot the messenger than accept some facts. As I clearly disclosed (to all but you apparently), the entire post you just replied to was written by somebody else. If I didn't know anything about the religion I would certainly not be making comments on it. I'm not one of the people here who needs to educate themselves on this religion before responding from a position of ignorance. The fact that none of you have ever heard about the Muslims aversion to swine or the statements about the virgins waiting for Jihadists in heaven is a prime example of your ignorance.

 

[Accomplice]

You are 34 years old?!

Would you really expose people, millions of them, old/childs/innocents/... to radiation? The nuk'em was a lot better and responsible idea... you probably have no idea (of course) of what dying because of cancer means.

You make Auschwitz look like a bright idea.

I'm 33. Most of my posts are meant to be somewhat incendiary. Obviously they have been. Most of the retaliatory responses in this thread have been from people who seem like they've been missing the news since 9/10/01. Any opportunity to digest any shred of trivia about radical Islam has been lost on them. They barely admit we should do anything about the threat of radical Islam. If actually given the opportunity to implement any of the over the top schemes I've suggested I would consider all factors and very likely not choose to incinerate millions of people.

There is some chance that our society will become victim to frequent attacks over the coming decades. Maybe even large scale attacks like the one recently averted in Jordan (some say it would have killed 80,000 people). Like I've said before, unless we can curb this issue before we see those attacks carried out, our govt. may start to consider some very radical responses. From where I stand right now, we will see some very disturbing events in our lifetimes.

 

[Bryant95]

I'm Muslim and most of my friends are Muslims, I didn't see any of them support this action. Even the media here in Saudi Arabia are screaming out load against such acts because simply, it's done under the name of Islam and it has nothing to do with such acts ! ...

The reason for the outrage is back to the Middle East conflict of Palestine. When you step on people, anger is bound to surface....

Hello. Thanks for your insight on the state of mind in Saudi Arabia. I do not think the issue is as simple as we may all hope.

I would like to add to your remark about the Palestinian cause as a basis for anger and concern.

In France, for instance, some angry youngster started vandalizing synagogues and beating up or insulting Jews after the start of the Al-AQsa Intifada in September 2000, after the Israeli move into Nablus in APril 2002, and after the September 11, 2001 attacks. The harassment has been constant, but accounts suggest these events caused peaks in anti-Jewish incidents.

Here's the problem: The attackers in France are not always Muslim or Arab, but some of these attackers are Maghrebi youth, whose parents came the North African (Maghrebi) countries of Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia. These youngster are subject to unemployment, discrimination, and poor educational and occupation opportunities.

In other words, their real problems are French. Their real gripe is with France, not with Israel.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/626315.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1946851.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3586543.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1465023.stm http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465067972/ref=sib_vae_dp/103-2997999-9183824?%5Fencoding=UTF8&no=283155&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER&st=books

 

[cmhs75]

You're quite the wordsmith. You've clearly demonstrated in your post that you are the uninformed one. I've never had to take issue with any particular sect, race, etc. before one made it a goal to destroy civilization. I'm not a racist by any stretch and its not even a race were talking about here, you chucklehead. It’s a religion composed of many races. I'm not 'making fun' of them either. Some of them pose a threat that should be obvious to you. It’s laughable that you'd rather shoot the messenger than accept some facts. As I clearly disclosed (to all but you apparently), the entire post you just replied to was written by somebody else. If I didn't know anything about the religion I would certainly not be making comments on it. I'm not one of the people here who needs to educate themselves on this religion before responding from a position of ignorance. The fact that none of you have ever heard about the Muslims aversion to swine or the statements about the virgins waiting for Jihadists in heaven is a prime example of your ignorance.

Accomplice, go to the nearest bookstore you can find and order a book that clearly explains the religion of Islam. This is all I can say to you



As for the things you claimed, well since I live in Saudi Arabia, I think I'm entitled to say that I know about Islam more than you, so here are a few pointers:

We don't eat pig meat because it is forbidden in our religion, simple as that and there are other alternative meat products so we have no problem with abiding our religion for that matter.

We also don't drink any kind of alcohol, don’t do any kind of drugs and we consider smoking a bad thing. We don't sleep with a woman we are not married to. We don't flirt with demon we are not married to. And Gayness, child molesting, porno videos, paid sex, stealing and all so non ethic acts are absolutely forbidden with an iron fist.

Now, this might not be to every one's liking, but we didn't force any one to live here, if you like stay, if you don't leave, it's a free world.

And about this virgin heaven you're talking about. That's nitpicking. The heaven that's mentioned is the same heaven in all heavenly religions. The most mentioned about it are rivers running under it, having unbelievable gardens and heavenly luxurious stature, the same you would imagine when you see a virgin Island. The virgins you are talking about in an Islamic belief that there are creatures living in heaven right now and they are not human sort of like servants. But your way of saying is making Muslims seem like stupid horny bastards who think they'll die into an internal heaven of Fu@#$ing,,,,,, yeah right. How about the wemon, you forgot to mension the women on earth what happens to them in heaven?

I don't want to make a huge post so I'll cut it short, go read a book on Islam written by a credible other, not a religion hater. Only then you can see that these claims are nit-picked to bring Islam out as being ugly

 

[cmhs75]

Hello. Thanks for your insight on the state of mind in Saudi Arabia. I do not think the issue is as simple as we may all hope.

I would like to add to your remark about the Palestinian cause as a basis for anger and concern.

In France, for instance, some angry youngster started vandalizing synagogues and beating up or insulting Jews after the start of the Al-AQsa Intifada in September 2000, after the Israeli move into Nablus in APril 2002, and after the September 11, 2001 attacks. The harassment has been constant, but accounts suggest these events caused peaks in anti-Jewish incidents.

Here's the problem: The attackers in France are not always Muslim or Arab, but some of these attackers are Maghrebi youth, whose parents came the North African (Maghrebi) countries of Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia. These youngster are subject to unemployment, discrimination, and poor educational and occupation opportunities.

In other words, their real problems are French. Their real gripe is with France, not with Israel.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/626315.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1946851.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3586543.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1465023.stm http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465067972/ref=sib_vae_dp/103-2997999-9183824?%5Fencoding=UTF8&no=283155&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER&st=books

People need to learn how to live with each other


On a course I took on the beginning days of Islam. The prophet Mohammad used to have a Jew as a next door neighbor. Now, Muslims take Mohammad's actions as their religious ideals. In the whole story of Mohammad, Not once did he assault a Jew, break his windows, abuse him verbally or do any thing to show hostile content. He was a gentleman who showed great humanities to others and not once did he act in a lower manner to any of the other religions that existed around him.

The story did go on to have a lot of war clashes between Jews and Muslims at the time of Mohammad, but as mentioned, they were war affairs not civilian affairs. All the civilian affairs were held to the highest level of justice that all the other religions never complained or dreaded a Muslim

It's funny how people do so many ugly things these days and then claim that it's from the teachings of Islam!? . Abusing people of other religions and suicide bombings and terrorist acts against civilians was never ever in the Islamic religion. But who cares, after all, the media just loves to defend Muslims don't they.

 

[Jin1976]

cmhs75

I am a Muslim too. I don't like war. Japanese used to invade our country during the second world war. My father and mother used to live in the jungle during the war and feed only on tapioca and bananas. Some of the relatives were murdered by the japanese soldiers. But do we hate all the japanese people because of this. My answer would be no. I only blame those soldiers.

So please blame the terrorists and not all the muslim. In my sight those terrorists are not muslim.

 

[Accomplice]

cmhs75,

The information about the virgins in heaven comes directly from the terrorists. You can interpret that as you wish. I hadn't thought about them being horny devils but, now that you mention it, I guess those guys are kind of frisky. The books on Islam will do much to enlighten me on the intent of the religion's founders. However I can learn enough about the interpretation and application of the religion by zealots by turning on the evening news and seeing them kill people in its name. I can also draw conclusions after seeing those zealots celebrated by the native population at large rather than detained and put to death. Do us a favor and find the radicals in your community and see that they comply with the true virtues of Islam. Then we can have that global group hug we all really long for.

 

[nkb]

The reports of celebratory Saudis were broadcast on Fox News. I don't simply make things up nkb.

I don't doubt that some Saudis celebrated. I am calling you out on your leap in logic that it means that all Saudis (and all Mulsims) were celebrating.

I saw pictures of American soldiers abusing prisoners. Should I assume that all American soldiers abuse their prisoners? No, that would be stupid, wouldn't it?

Making a sweeping generalization based on what the media shows in the name of shock value is incredibly ignorant. Why do you think Fox News was showing celebration? Is it because everyone was celebrating, or is it because the majority of Saudis sitting at home not celebrating does not make a very good story?

Try this (it's a novel concept): When you see or read a report, use some common sense, do a little bit of research, do some critical thinking before drawing conclusions. Make sure you're not accepting a report solely because it happens to agree with your general mindset.

That would be your utter lack of exposure to the world around you that makes some facts seem new to you. You're still sore about not having heard about the Muslim pig aversion before this thread. You sure are clueless or a guy who pops off a lot about this stuff.

Being called clueless by someone who wants to secretly place sources of deadly radiation in Mecca really doesn't carry a lot of weight. Is your real name Dr. Evil?

I don't know what your background is, so I will refrain from making any assumptions about it (as you have done about me). Suffice it to say that I have had an enormous amount of exposure to the world, and not just from watching Fox News. I grew up in Europe, and have traveled extensively all over the world, including to the Middle East. I have friends of all races, nationalities and religions, including Muslims. As I have said before (but you choose to ignore) I am familiar with the fact that Muslims don't eat pork.

I have never heard of a Muslim belief that they will not go to heaven if they come into contact with pig's blood, or if they get buried with a pork chop. Now, it may be true, but common sense, and the fact that I have never heard about it from my friends, makes me question it.

cmhs75, if you could verify or refute this claim, it would be appreciated.

 

[Accomplice]

I do take news reports with a grain of salt. One post 9/11 poll showed that 80% of Saudis supported UBL. Its no leap of faith to call that a majority. You must also take statements made by residents of the kingdom with a grain of salt. Their media and just about everything else they are exposed to is strictly controlled. They may actually have less of a chance to grasp the realities of the situation than folks fortunate enough to live in a country with a free press. I know I've gone overboard to get you riled up. I just hope that you'll open your eyes and at least consider it a possibility that your way of life is under threat.

 

[Accomplice]

I don't doubt that some Saudis celebrated. I am calling you out on your leap in logic that it means that all Saudis (and all Mulsims) were celebrating.

I saw pictures of American soldiers abusing prisoners. Should I assume that all American soldiers abuse their prisoners? No, that would be stupid, wouldn't it?

Making a sweeping generalization based on what the media shows in the name of shock value is incredibly ignorant. Why do you think Fox News was showing celebration? Is it because everyone was celebrating, or is it because the majority of Saudis sitting at home not celebrating does not make a very good story?

One reason why you wouldn't assume that all American soldiers abuse prisoners is the level of shock, outrage and disgust that has come from the American public, our politicians and nearly universally from others within the military. You can tell from the facts presented to you that it is an unusual situation. Attacks by radical Muslims generate very little negative reaction in Islamic states. In fact to a great many they are viewed as victorious events. The Pakistani guy who sold nuclear secrets to hostile govts. is not only free from prosecution, he's hailed as a national hero. You can make sweeping generalizations that are accurate if the facts are there to support it. You have just been so brainwashed into PC thinking that you're afraid, unable or unwilling to see what is obvious, let alone say or do anything about it, if doing so will offend anybody.

 

[nkb]

I've never had to take issue with any particular sect, race, etc. before one made it a goal to destroy civilization.

You do seem to be a little dense, so let me clarify it again, in real simple terms:
The Muslim religion has not made it a goal to destroy civilization.Just because some radical dipshits are claiming it is being done in the name of Islam, doesn't make it so.

Maybe you've heard of the Ku Klux Klan. Did you know that they don't like blacks, Jews, Hispanics, etc? Do you know in whose name they commit their crimes and spread their hate? The white people!

I got news for you: I'm white, and they're not speaking for me. I don't know for sure, but I believe the majority of white people don't agree with them either. However, they're still around. So, can we infer from this that all white people support them? Should we nuke Birmingham, Alabama?

I'm not a racist by any stretch ...

In this case, you may not be a racist, but you sure show a lot of prejudice. When you stereotype and generalize about a group of people based on their affiliation to a religion, that is PREJUDICE!

When you finally realize that our beef is with terrorists, and not with the general population of the Muslim faith, you will hopefully be a little more rational.

 

[nkb]

I do take news reports with a grain of salt. One post 9/11 poll showed that 80% of Saudis supported UBL. Its no leap of faith to call that a majority.

Please find the report that mentions that poll, and let us know the source. Until you can, I trust your word about as much as I did the story on burying extremists with some pork sausages.

 

[nkb]

One reason why you wouldn't assume that all American soldiers abuse prisoners is the level of shock, outrage and disgust that has come from the American public, our politicians and nearly universally from others within the military.

Once again, you need to make up your mind.

In an earlier post, you thought "...its almost shocking that a couple of Arab states bothered to put out a press release to say it was a wrong..."

So, which one is it, should they be showing outrage, or should they keep quiet, because it's obvious that it's wrong?

One thing is curious: I have seen plenty of reports where Muslims are expressing their outrage at the beheading, and asking that you do not associate them with the terrorists that did this.

If you ignore that, I guess you can make your argument that they all support it. Ignoring facts and reports that don't support your ideas seems to be your thing.