The Official 2011 F1 Thread....Now That 2010 is Over

Interesting interview with Mr Webber.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/10/webber-2010-was-my-last-chance-to-be-champion/

Thinking about it, the only reason for Webber to admit such a thing, even allowing for his supreme honesty to himself, is that it is now written into his contract that he is #2, and is not allowed to drive for the championship? Knowing a bit about the man, it could be his way of telling everyone the "un-known" facts?? :biggrin:

I'm not denying that Vettel has been untouchable this season, but having been around racing most of my life, we all know next year can be very different!

Joe Saward on his blog is already saying Webber to Ferrari as Massa's replacement is a "no brainer". :rolleyes:
 
BD said:
I think the language used by Ferrari was not... Appropriate. However, as a team sport, it is OK to block and defend your line. By saying that, I'm not taking side of LH, but point out the obvious. Ferrari and Renault (Benetton) often play dirty to score as many points as they can, and just last month, Ferrari stated that they want to beat McLaren in points.

It is a sign of desperation from Ferrari. Their biggest mistake was to push our Brawn and Schuy and they are now paying the price.
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How low is too low?
sadlerau said:
Over reaction guys. Massa was asked to destroy Hamilton's race strategy, not the man or car! At least please remember that English is not their first language.

For a deeper understanding of the F1 world, and one of the best blogs about it please read this blog -

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/

Joe Saward's understanding and behind the scenes knowledge is outstanding.
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Hardly an over reaction. You wanna hold someone back, block to your hearts desire (as much as the stewards will allow). When you send messages like "destroy his race" to an already fragile minded Massa who knows he's on the verge of losing his seat @ Ferrari, the guy is going to put himself and Lewis in harms way to make Big Red proud. The media has come down HARD on Lewis for the mistake he made at Singapore (which in my mind was a simple racing incident, prior to this knowledge) but with this information, Massa is fully to blame. The balls to approach Lewis afterwards and make it seem like it was all his fault is even more damning of how lowly a character like Massa is and Ferrari as a whole.
Sandro said:
Why some guys hate so much Scuderia?It is most famous F1 team and it's synonyme for racing and sports cars.
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Most famous? Yes, but does that give them carte blanche? Of course in your mind, the answer would probably be yes.
 
Jack Sparrow said:
Hardly an over reaction. You wanna hold someone back, block to your hearts desire (as much as the stewards will allow). When you send messages like "destroy his race" to an already fragile minded Massa who knows he's on the verge of losing his seat @ Ferrari, the guy is going to put himself and Lewis in harms way to make Big Red proud. The media has come down HARD on Lewis for the mistake he made at Singapore (which in my mind was a simple racing incident, prior to this knowledge) but with this information, Massa is fully to blame. The balls to approach Lewis afterwards and make it seem like it was all his fault is even more damning of how lowly a character like Massa is and Ferrari as a whole.
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Massa fully to blame? Under racing protocol the car in front has the right to determine where he wants to go and how close to the edge of grip you take it. Lewis made a simple error of judgment, funnily enough a racing incident :wink: The only blame which could have been apportioned to Massa is if he had brake tested Hamilton, which patently he did not at that point or Massa would have lost rear adhesion and probably spun. And rest assured if he had we would have been informed of it by Hamilton and McLaren [quite rightly to I might add].

As for focusing on the word "destroy", don't you realise they are talking in English, in an Italian team to a Spanish speaking driver. Please keep this in context, the same context that tells the driver to "box next lap" which means to come into the pits, not to drop the car into a cardboard box and wrap it in a big bowed ribbon on the next lap. :biggrin:

As for those who "came down hard" on Hamilton for his mistake, they show as little understanding for motorsport as you seem to show. It WAS a simple little driving error, and yes even the best do make mistakes! Massa's tug of Hamilton's arm in the press area afterwards would be a pretty normal reaction from someone who had just had HIS race "destroyed" by someone else's "silly little error", especially when his seat is on the line.

But that's life, and motor racing.............
 
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If the pit told me to "box next lap" I'd have an issue with offing myself:eek:
 
sadlerau said:
Massa fully to blame? Under racing protocol the car in front has the right to determine where he wants to go and how close to the edge of grip you take it. Lewis made a simple error of judgment, funnily enough a racing incident :wink: The only blame which could have been apportioned to Massa is if he had brake tested Hamilton, which patently he did not at that point or Massa would have lost rear adhesion and probably spun. And rest assured if he had we would have been informed of it by Hamilton and McLaren [quite rightly to I might add].
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So its out of the question to postulate that Massa could have gone off WOT or part-throttle or decreased throttle by 25% in order to keep "destroying" Lewis's race & slow him down? That's a highly likely scenario given Ferrari's lack of ethics and Massa's growing discontent for Lewis.
sadlerau said:
As for focusing on the word "destroy", don't you realise they are talking in English, in an Italian team to a Spanish speaking driver. Please keep this in context, the same context that tells the driver to "box next lap" which means to come into the pits, not to drop the car into a cardboard box and wrap it in a big bowed ribbon on the next lap. :biggrin:
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:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Box is the appropriate terminology for calling a car into the pits, destroy has no technical term, semantics cannot save you in this discussion. When using the word "destroy", the message is loud and clear. Why didn't Smedley say slow or hold?
sadlerau said:
As for those who "came down hard" on Hamilton for his mistake, they show as little understanding for motorsport as you seem to show. It WAS a simple little driving error, and yes even the best do make mistakes! Massa's tug of Hamilton's arm in the press area afterwards would be a pretty normal reaction from someone who had just had HIS race "destroyed" by someone else's "silly little error", especially when his seat is on the line.

But that's life, and motor racing.............
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I'm sorry but do you have trouble with reading comprehension? At what point in my previous responses have I come down hard on Hamilton for the racing incident with Massa? My previous posts were aimed at defending him (Lewis) and placing blame @ Massa/Ferrari. Glad to see we have some real scholars in this thread...:rolleyes:

P.S. Nice job of restating everything I have already said regarding the matter.
 
Jack take your blinkers off :biggrin:

By the way, it may be your comprenshion that needs brushing up. I never implied that you had been hard on Hamilton [God forbid :eek: ], my words were - As for those who "came down hard" on Hamilton
 
sadlerau said:
Jack take your blinkers off :biggrin:

By the way, it may be your comprenshion that needs brushing up. I never implied that you had been hard on Hamilton [God forbid :eek: ], my words were - As for those who "came down hard" on Hamilton
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If you quote someone, it's fair to say you are talking to them.

P.S. This message is not for you.

Next time, quote the right person.
 
This car may end up on the podium tomorrow (tonight).

This is precision driving at its finest: get your tires on the painted flat surface just between the rumble strips and the grass. Can Kobayashi san do that lap after lap? In terms of just looks alone, this remains my favorite car of the season.

saub_koba_suzu_2011-11.jpg
 
Awesome win for Jenson. So happy he's found his niche @ McLaren and is bringing home podiums for the team. As much as I hate to see it happen this early & so decisively, congrats to Seb/RBR. Great season for you guys.

The race itself was so-so for me. The start was interesting but once Button took the lead, I knew RBR wouldn't allow Seb to really push and challenge him or even Alonso. Towards the end, it got a little interesting but nothing spectacular like Canada.
 
Isn't it telling that the Alonso / Sebastien / Jenson group all seem very happy boys, without a trace of personal animosity. Yet the Lewis / Philippe duo is all about ego and raw nerves and mutually assured destruction.
 
Miner said:
It looks to be a 2 man race for 2nd place. It was nice to see Alonso running well today. I'm impressed at how well JB is driving this year, much better than expected. He's still a wanker, but having a great drive this year.

Miner
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I agree ,expected more from Marc.
Finally RB beaten hope that rest be better prepared for next year.
As for Lewis-Massa I think that Lewis done same thing like in Spa to Kamui,entered in Massas racing line when thay were car to car.
I didn't like neither Sebs start when he pushed out Jenson,to me he deserved drive through penalty.
 
I found also something about message to Massa "to destroy Lewis race" what do you say about 2006. pit message to Rubens:

“Come on, you are half a second down on him [Heidfeld]. Close him down and kill him!”
 
Sandro said:
Finally RB beaten hope that rest be better prepared for next year.
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Ummm don't know what season you've been watching but this is Button's 3rd win.
Sandro said:
I found also something about message to Massa "to destroy Lewis race" what do you say about 2006. pit message to Rubens:

“Come on, you are half a second down on him [Heidfeld]. Close him down and kill him!”
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Sandro coming to Ferrari's defense? What's new...
 
Sandro said:
I agree ,expected more from Marc.
Finally RB beaten hope that rest be better prepared for next year.
As for Lewis-Massa I think that Lewis done same thing like in Spa to Kamui,entered in Massas racing line when thay were car to car.
I didn't like neither Sebs start when he pushed out Jenson,to me he deserved drive through penalty.
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The incident between Hamilton and Massa at the last chicane was not Hamilton's fault. He was leading coming into the braking area and was moving over to take the correct line into the chicane. Problem was Massa was further up than Hamilton had anticipated. Racing incident pure and simple.

The start line squeeze by Vettel was harsh, but no worse that you see at most club level race starts. A penalty for that would have been even more extreme than the squeeze itself :smile: And in the post race interviews Vettel claims to not have seen Button there.

Great to see Button win again, I love his work. What a pity he was lumbered with so many bad cars while at BAR/Honda!!

And did everyone notice the pounding Webber's front wing took when he was trying to pass Schumacher? It deflected so much the whole right side of the wing came into view of the camera :eek: They must really build those front wings super strong and super flexible in every direction, except the one that the FIA tests for rigidity :biggrin: Lesson there for the other teams I reckon.

But the biggest surprise was even though his wing was damaged it didn't seem to hamper his pace. He was still quicker than Hamilton and the guys in front till he was told, understandably, to hold off and not threaten Vettel. Me thinks the RB cars still had some pace up their sleeves if they had been forced to fight for something, other than a top ten result for Vettel.

What's the bet that suddenly Webber finds some pace and threatens for second in the championship over the remaining races?
 
sadlerau said:
Great to see Button win again, I love his work. What a pity he was lumbered with so many bad cars while at BAR/Honda!!
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For what it's worth, his 2009 Championship car WAS a Honda car, albeit powered by Mercedes. ;)
 
I thought the best joke was how Weber kept pace with a damaged front lip/spoiler ............ as the commentators said, goes to show you all the money spent on the aero ......... just look at the front of the above pics with all the twisty and convoluted shapes :eek::tongue:

But I too agree, at least Seb should have received a warning from the steward regarding the aggressive start. But Button did well though most likely Seb could have at least challenged him more had it not been for the big picture championship. Will see now that is over, how aggressive hew will be in the remaining races.
 
sadlerau said:
The start line squeeze by Vettel was harsh, but no worse that you see at most club level race starts. A penalty for that would have been even more extreme than the squeeze itself.
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I agree with your view about a penalty being too extreme, considering the level of competency of the two drivers involved.

But I have watched that squeeze replayed many times. After Vettel squeezed Button to the right, Vettel moved back to the left in order to enter the corner properly.

Hence even though I agree with you that a penalty is not called for, the squeeze was absolutely intentional, and Vettel's claim that he didn't see Button coming was a pure lie.
 

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