the NSX's deadly rivals

[Superfluous]

Superfluous ↑↑↑ You say Acura has elected to appeal to a broader market.....OK how big is the market for $157K (or probably closer to $170K w/options)

Not big at all. I don’t think Acura plans to sell a ton of NSXs. On the other hand, if the NSX were wildly uncomfortable to drive, unreliable, and unsuitable as a daily driver, Acura would sell far fewer than the existing design.

been over this a few times. clearly you don't get it either...

Right back at you buddy. Lets agree to disagree. Come April/May (hopefully), I will enjoy daily driving my new NSX. Meanwhile, I hope you continue to derive endless enjoyment occasionally driving laps in other people’s Ferraris.

 

[fastaussie]

Right back at you buddy. Lets agree to disagree. Come April/May (hopefully), I will enjoy daily driving my new NSX. Meanwhile, I hope you continue to derive endless enjoyment occasionally driving laps in other people’s Ferraris.

that's funny, i'll give you points for taking a shot at a nice dig.

however i don't drive other people's personal cars, i drive company cars. you do the math.. :biggrin:

 

[Superfluous]

that's funny, i'll give you points for taking a shot at a nice dig.

however i don't drive other people's personal cars, i drive company cars. you do the math.. :biggrin:

No dig intended. However, the fact remains that one who owns, maintains, and daily drives a car has different needs as compared to one who occasionally tracks cars owned and maintained by someone else. One who owns and daily drives a car must enter and exit the car multiple times a day, every day of the week, in various conditions, interact with the navigation system, navigate adverse road conditions, and – importantly – pay all maintenance costs associated with the daily driving. Conversely, one who merely drives someone else’s car on a track, in ideal conditions, without using the navigation, and never needs to pay the maintenance costs associated with the car, has an entirely different perspective.

I am not knocking you FA. It sounds like you have a wonderful opportunity to drive some great cars. It also sounds like you are a very skilled driver. Kudos to you in both regards. My only point is that your perspective is very different from someone in my shoes. As a matter of respectful discourse, you would be well served to step back from your ardent convictions, predicated on your unique circumstances, and consider the opinions of people who stand in very different shoes, and who have very different needs. The fact that the NSX does not fit your preferences does not mean the car is an utter fail, as you have repeatedly suggested. Rather, it simply means the NSX is not for you. Consider allowing others the freedom to make a different choice, without deriding their opinions as reprehensible blasphemy.

In the end, we are all car enthusiasts. Try respecting the opinions of your fellow enthusiasts, rather than relentlessly disparaging anyone who dares to disagree with your unilateral proclamations of truth.

 

[docjohn]

I concur with the above.....The nsx may be a fantastic everyday car for folks who want the Swiss army knife of exotics :biggrin:

 

[Bram]

[QUOTE Rather, it simply means the NSX is not for you. Consider allowing others the freedom to make a different choice, without deriding their opinions as reprehensible blasphemy.

In the end, we are all car enthusiasts. Try respecting the opinions of your fellow enthusiasts, rather than relentlessly disparaging anyone who dares to disagree with your unilateral proclamations of truth.[/QUOTE]

This is the BEST Statement made during this entire thread...

Bram

 

[fastaussie]

No dig intended. However, the fact remains that one who owns, maintains, and daily drives a car has different needs as compared to one who occasionally tracks cars owned and maintained by someone else. One who owns and daily drives a car must enter and exit the car multiple times a day, every day of the week, in various conditions, interact with the navigation system, navigate adverse road conditions, and – importantly – pay all maintenance costs associated with the daily driving. Conversely, one who merely drives someone else’s car on a track, in ideal conditions, without using the navigation, and never needs to pay the maintenance costs associated with the car, has an entirely different perspective.

I am not knocking you FA. It sounds like you have a wonderful opportunity to drive some great cars. It also sounds like you are a very skilled driver. Kudos to you in both regards. My only point is that your perspective is very different from someone in my shoes. As a matter of respectful discourse, you would be well served to step back from your ardent convictions, predicated on your unique circumstances, and consider the opinions of people who stand in very different shoes, and who have very different needs. The fact that the NSX does not fit your preferences does not mean the car is an utter fail, as you have repeatedly suggested. Rather, it simply means the NSX is not for you. Consider allowing others the freedom to make a different choice, without deriding their opinions as reprehensible blasphemy.

In the end, we are all car enthusiasts. Try respecting the opinions of your fellow enthusiasts, rather than relentlessly disparaging anyone who dares to disagree with your unilateral proclamations of truth.

i have owned other exotics besides my 1996 and 2002 NSX's. and driven, paid for, and lived with them on a daily basis also. my opinion isn't remotely as singular as you think...

p.s. i could care less how any car company builds their flagship. i'm just giving you the criteria of the very tough market segment it's entered, and what the perceived notion of a Supercar is by the general public. time will tell if Honda got it right, it makes no difference to me either way...

 

[liftcontrol]

“Soul” . . . yet another wildly subjective and amorphous reference. Does a car really have to be uncomfortable, inconvenient and unreliable in order to have “soul”? Again, I disagree. The NSX can be reliable and (relatively) comfortable, but still have plenty of “soul.” These are not mutually exclusive considerations.

No, clearly a car need not be uncomfortable or unreliable to have a soul.
A Miata has a "soul". A Toyota Camry does not.
A 911 has more soul than a GTR which has more soul than a Honda Accord.

You cannot define what "soul" is but you know it when you see it. Just like porn

Your definition of a super car or an exotic or whatever category you think the 2nd Gen NSX falls under is different from mine and it coincides with HONDA's definition of a super car. Good for you.

You may call the qualities that make a super car a super car, subjective, but when you see an exotic or a super car, you know it.

Somethings are difficult to define but instantly recognizable when seen.

 

[N Spec]

No, clearly a car need not be uncomfortable or unreliable to have a soul.
A Miata has a "soul". A Toyota Camry does not.
A 911 has more soul than a GTR which has more soul than a Honda Accord.

You cannot define what "soul" is but you know it when you see it. Just like porn

Your definition of a super car or an exotic or whatever category you think the 2nd Gen NSX falls under is different from mine and it coincides with HONDA's definition of a super car. Good for you.

You may call the qualities that make a super car a super car, subjective, but when you see an exotic or a super car, you know it.

Somethings are difficult to define but instantly recognizable when seen.

When I look at the new NSX, I see exotic. When I see the old NSX, I see exotic. When I look at any 911 generation, I see a beetle on Steroids. When I see the R8, I see a TT on steroids - which is sad because it shares platforms with the Lambo.

So while you or FA still may not agree with Honda's direction, the new NSX is still going to look exotic and perform much better than the predecessor in many ways if not all aspects. As far as the limited amount of competition, again, the Ferrari would be the only car to trump the new NSX in terms of checklist items. The practicality and subdued manner echoes the original NSX's "soul."

I also can't see how sales keep coming into factors of sports cars or exotic cars. The Balance of rareness is what make an exotic supercar special. If the NSX sold in Corvette, 911, or Miata volumes, it would not be exotic anymore.

The new FR-S/BR-Z sold great the first few years, but look at it it now. It's lagging in sales already and it's only been out for a few years. Sports cars sales are not a representation of success (maybe financially for the manufacturer) for the consumer/car buyer and driver. So I don't see how sales number and msrp pricing can be a valid argument for a consumer standpoint.

 

[Hothonda]

When I look at any 911 generation, I see a beetle on Steroids.

Thanks N Spec....a very quick beetle though.

 

[docjohn]

wait a second I have never seen that car before:tongue:......hothonda I never knew you owned Porsches......:biggrin:

 

[Hothonda]

wait a second I have never seen that car before:tongue:......hothonda I never knew you owned Porsches......:biggrin:

2000 996 Cab, 2013 991S.
Not perfect, but not bad.

 

[docjohn]

you have to change your nom de plume to hotvw......:biggrin:

 

[N Spec]

Thanks N Spec....a very quick beetle though.

Very fast indeed! There's no denying that!

 

[fastaussie]

love that car in white... :smile:

 

[Superfluous]

Love P-cars and have owned several (still have one that the wife drives). Just wish they weren't so f*ing common in my neck of the woods.

 

[fastaussie]

Sports cars sales are not a representation of success (maybe financially for the manufacturer) for the consumer/car buyer and driver. So I don't see how sales number and msrp pricing can be a valid argument for a consumer standpoint.

but not selling cars is certainly an indicator of success...

 

[N Spec]

but not selling cars is certainly an indicator of success...

Meeting one's target is an indicator of success, whether it's selling 300 car limited run or 30,000 cars annually. If Acura intended to sell Porsche 911 volumes, and did not match it, then it would be a failure. However that's not their goal. Nissan intends to sell their Z car beyond 911 numbers. That's a more realistic target and indicator of success for them. If Honda intends to sell about 800 units a year and matches that number, then that's success.

However, again, the BR-Z and FR-S are already exhibiting super lagged sales from the initial success simply because the market of buyers for a $20K sports car has been filled at an accelerated pace. Now they need a do a mid-cycle upgrade to stimulate new and return buyers. So understanding and establishing a proper market size is rather complicated, especially for new or unique sports cars.

 

[fastaussie]

everyone knows the goal, nobody said they were trying to sell 30,000 units. perhaps that's part of the reason they set the number at 800?

 

[docjohn]

800 is the max capacity allowing for beer breaks.....

 

[Hothonda]

800 is the max capacity allowing for beer breaks.....

That's about 3 X more than were sold in 2005.

 

[docjohn]

...............crappy beer..........

 

[gleibig]

I thought they couldn't make any changes/increase production because the build sheet is laminated.

 

[liftcontrol]

If Honda intends to sell about 800 units a year and matches that number, then that's success

There is logic to that reasoning but logic does not always lead to rational thinking.

If HONDA sets their target to sell 800 units/year and meeting that is a precondition to "success" irrespective of any other metric, then they should just set the goal as selling 200 units/year and pretty much ENSURE that the 2nd Gen is a blow out success!!:biggrin:

But in reality success for a car like the NSX is more than just selling an arbitrary number of cars.
Success for a halo car like the NSX is to meet and even exceed the expectations of its intended customers.
Success for the 2nd Gen will be when it is tested in it's final iteration and declared to be worth the wait and the weight and the cost and the complexity.

It will be a success when it is found that despite the various apparent negatives, the car is actually better for all those negatives; that the sum of its parts is indeed more and better than it's individual qualities and attributes.:wink:

 

[G.Irish]

There is logic to that reasoning but logic does not always lead to rational thinking.

If HONDA sets their target to sell 800 units/year and meeting that is a precondition to "success" irrespective of any other metric, then they should just set the goal as selling 200 units/year and pretty much ENSURE that the 2nd Gen is a blow out success!!:biggrin:

But in reality success for a car like the NSX is more than just selling an arbitrary number of cars.
Success for a halo car like the NSX is to meet and even exceed the expectations of its intended customers.
Success for the 2nd Gen will be when it is tested in it's final iteration and declared to be worth the wait and the weight and the cost and the complexity.

It will be a success when it is found that despite the various apparent negatives, the car is actually better for all those negatives; that the sum of its parts is indeed more and better than it's individual qualities and attributes.:wink:

Yes :applouse: :applouse: :applouse:

I would add that a measure of success for the NSX will be whether it's a car that inspires buzz, debate, and desire among the car buying public (that cares about performance). If it puts Honda's capabilities and ideas in a positive light, it will at least give the Honda/Acura brand a boost if they ever get their act together on other sporty products. If Acura decides to release more eSH-AWD cars the NSX could pave the way towards positive customer perceptions of Acura's powertrains.

 

[fastaussie]

But in reality success for a car like the NSX is more than just selling an arbitrary number of cars.
Success for a halo car like the NSX is to meet and even exceed the expectations of its intended customers.
Success for the 2nd Gen will be when it is tested in it's final iteration and declared to be worth the wait and the weight and the cost and the complexity.

It will be a success when it is found that despite the various apparent negatives, the car is actually better for all those negatives; that the sum of its parts is indeed more and better than it's individual qualities and attributes.:wink:

yup...

I would add that a measure of success for the NSX will be whether it's a car that inspires buzz, debate, and desire among the car buying public (that cares about performance). If it puts Honda's capabilities and ideas in a positive light, it will at least give the Honda/Acura brand a boost if they ever get their act together on other sporty products.

and yup...