The NSX wasn't designed to be the best.

Mogami, you obviously have impressive contacts. One question, you keep referring to the NC1 V6 as a $70K racing engine.
Could you please elaborate on what you mean by “racing engine”...? What in your view makes it more of a racing engine
than a Chevy LT5, a Nissan VR38DETT or a AMG 156?
 
Mogami, you obviously have impressive contacts. One question, you keep referring to the NC1 V6 as a $70K racing engine.
Could you please elaborate on what you mean by “racing engine”...? What in your view makes it more of a racing engine
than a Chevy LT5, a Nissan VR38DETT or a AMG 156?

It was designed to GT3 specs(endurance racing) and not to soccer mom mini van specs(cheap to make but last for 200,000+ miles)

The other three are standard production engines that are reworked to racing specs. LT5 block is made stronger than needed but GM always did that because it really didn't cost much more because they make so many.
I remember back in the early 70's, it was cheaper to go the junk yard to get a Chevy small-block 4-bolt main than order one(the cars that should have it the junk yards would already take the engine and get good money for it but some cars that shouldn't have it would have a 4-bolt too because GM needed a engine that day on the line and only the 4-bolt was avaible)
 
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We have in our stable pretty much any car you want to pick from at the shop:

GTR > AMG GT > M3 > M2 > NSX 1st and 2nd gen > s2000 CR > EVO > R8 > Huracan > 570s


Between most of those cars above, the cars that elicit the most response are the pair of NSX's and the s2000 CR

We have a customer who drives his R8 Spyder daily look at the 570s but is now back into a Huracan. He loves our 2nd gen NSX too! The only car that can really jump heads over all other super cars is the mighty McLaren 720s.

The 720s is the only car that is super bike fast and can eat every car alive but it's pushing out nearly 800hp so nothing can touch it right now. At $320k+ price tag it's also the most expensive as it should be.
 
Best, no, but great niche. After a long absence, I am back in the gen 2 market. For an all season daily driver, there are not many other options. R8 is one. I discount the 911 turbo as being debatably improved yet increasingly costly, and never rid of that terrible interior or skull rattling wump from the rear multilink. I won't bore you with my long list of 911 complaints. My wife's Macan was much better. A lightly modified GTR is cheap, and mine was a blast...when it was running. So the 2019 NSX is looking very good indeed.
 
I think stiff up the NSX will make it much nicer, it is a great and fast car, but not that "planted" ..

Well, centre of gravity could be a bit lower, (say after sit in a Lotus and back to NSX ... feel like in a luxury sedan), and easily take 150lb off from over luxury interior/insulation .. Wait .. that will be a Type R / Type S
 
Stiffer??? I already feel every crack in the road up my spine...... It's a street car, and only a small percentage of people will drive it on the track. I think it's pretty stiff as is.....
 
any car will feel ponderous right after stepping off a skateboard lotus.... :wink:
 
Stiffer??? I already feel every crack in the road up my spine...... It's a street car, and only a small percentage of people will drive it on the track. I think it's pretty stiff as is.....

How come? Even at quiet (comfort) mode? Huge surprise to me from the NSX is how comfort it is, (which is good thing to me for a 40 yr old man with kids, and why I bought mine) even more comfortable and quieter than my X6 .. almost Lexus' feel! ( I still have my Lotus, have it for over 10 yr, only put 2,500 mile on it, especially last few yr, almost untouched .. but good thing with Toyota Engine/Tranny, dirt cheap maintenence cost when service at Toyota dealership lol)

Anyway, the comfort level of the NSX is awesome as daily driving, and good on gas.. (9.8L per 100 vs again, X6 is 19L/100) but as a super sport car, (not a GT) is should be sharper .. I guess Honda plan is to make a "Comfort as DD" version first, then lighter sharper Type S/Type R .. but with low Sale volume now ... sigh ... :(
 
I think there may be a misconception by some that the chassis stiffness or comfort levels change when you rotate and change the dynamic mode?? My understanding is that this is not the case. The suspension settings are static and do not adjust per driving mode. The chassis is the same regardless if you are in quiet mode or track mode. The dynamic modes only affect performance of the engine, shift points, exhaust, integration of the hybrid system, etc. In track mode, I know that traction control is basically turned off and gives more control back to the driver, but I am not aware of any changes made to the suspension settings.

Correct me if I am wrong........
 
Yes .. suspension changed too .. (feel more than 2 levels, but from the display, only 2 setting ..)

Indeed, when I drive through man holes and bumps, need to switch to firm suspension to prevent scuffing the front end ... *_*
 
Piano, looks like you are right...... I looked in the manual, page 325, and in sport+ and track mode "damping is set for higher body control and performance driving environment....."
In quiet and sport modes the suspension "is tuned for everyday normal driving" Sport+ mode provides "enhanced traction control" and in track mode gives the driver more track oriented control and freedom to the driver, meaning the traction control is reduced or eliminated and the driver now controls traction.....

This all being said, I have never been able to discern any changes in the chassis performance when switching between sport and sport+ which I do a LOT. When I leave the main road and head to my house, the road has lots of asphalt cracks, of which I get jarred by every one, even though I am in sport mode and running on the electric motors..... And BTW, the chart lists that the suspension damping is the same in quiet and sport modes, or in other words, quiet mode suspension is not softer than sport mode- it's remains the same.

It doesn't bother me that much as I expect a supercar with such cornering capabilities has to be pretty stiff. In my opinion, in sport mode, the car is NOT plush. Anyway, I have never felt any difference in chassis performance by mode. Maybe my chassis adjustment is defective? I've never driven another one to compare, but I doubt it is defective.

The car is so low and wide, as hard as I have tried, I have been unable to even begin to get the car to roll or get unsettles while cornering on the street...... More stable than anything I have ever driven.
 
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Well .. I live in Canada .. (* cough cough .. snowing now .. ) with tons of bumps. potholes, manholes, speed bump, cracks, etc etc .. (Truck town here, hot chicks will scream to a Ford F150, but not a 488 .. )

*_*
 
The NSX has the Gen III Active magnetorheological coilovers. At the time the car was launched they offered the fastest response and the widest damping range of anything on the market. Not sure if they still hold that record at this time.

This is what allows the car to become so comfortable as well as provide excellent rigidity in cornering. Being active allows the car to adjust damping depending on what it detects the surface below you is doing. This is why being the fastest responding at the time of launch was a big deal.
 
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I have talked to many internal Honda folks both as friends I know personally and from Honda folks who come to special events like NSXPO. While they each can not officially on-record say certain things (and I believe some really do love working for Honda) it's quite easy to piece together the puzzle.

ITO needs to go. Leadership at Honda is a misguided mess IMO. It's a bummer for the great people that work there. If Porsche can be top on the consumer satisfaction list, provide an amazing ecosystem that nurtures the enthusiast and motorsports, and still be one of the most profitable in the industry... something is clearly wrong at Honda HQ. For example, Acura can barely scrub together peanut change to support NSXPO but Porsche put on a stupid amazing event the same weekend at Rennsport Reunion. It was a depressing realization coming from a Honda fan such as myself.

ITO needs to go.

Thank god they somewhat salvaged the Civic Type R. It's ugly but an amazing handling vehicle. Worthy of the Type R badge.

Thanks for your insight @Mogami
 
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I have talked to many internal Honda folks both as friends I know personally and from Honda folks who come to special events like NSXPO. While they each can not officially on-record say certain things (and I believe some really do love working for Honda) it's quite easy to piece together the puzzle.

ITO needs to go. Leadership at Honda is a misguided mess IMO. It's a bummer for the great people that work there. If Porsche can be top on the consumer satisfaction list, provide an amazing ecosystem that nurtures the enthusiast and motorsports, and still be one of the most profitable in the industry... something is clearly wrong at Honda HQ. For example, Acura can barely scrub together peanut change to support NSXPO but Porsche put on a stupid amazing event the same weekend at Rennsport Reunion. It was a depressing realization coming from a Honda fan such as myself.

ITO needs to go.

Thank god they somewhat salvaged the Civic Type R. It's ugly but an amazing handling vehicle. Worthy of the Type R badge.

Thanks for your insight @Mogami

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but from your post I can gather what has been written.

I kept seeing the following quote and references to it during last week at NSXPO:

"If Honda does not race, there is no Honda."
-Soichiro Honda

I think that says it all.
 
I have talked to many internal Honda folks both as friends I know personally and from Honda folks who come to special events like NSXPO. While they each can not officially on-record say certain things (and I believe some really do love working for Honda) it's quite easy to piece together the puzzle.

ITO needs to go. Leadership at Honda is a misguided mess IMO. It's a bummer for the great people that work there. If Porsche can be top on the consumer satisfaction list, provide an amazing ecosystem that nurtures the enthusiast and motorsports, and still be one of the most profitable in the industry... something is clearly wrong at Honda HQ. For example, Acura can barely scrub together peanut change to support NSXPO but Porsche put on a stupid amazing event the same weekend at Rennsport Reunion. It was a depressing realization coming from a Honda fan such as myself.

ITO needs to go.

Thank god they somewhat salvaged the Civic Type R. It's ugly but an amazing handling vehicle. Worthy of the Type R badge.

Thanks for your insight @Mogami

This!
 
I have talked to many internal Honda folks both as friends I know personally and from Honda folks who come to special events like NSXPO. While they each can not officially on-record say certain things (and I believe some really do love working for Honda) it's quite easy to piece together the puzzle.

ITO needs to go. Leadership at Honda is a misguided mess IMO. It's a bummer for the great people that work there. If Porsche can be top on the consumer satisfaction list, provide an amazing ecosystem that nurtures the enthusiast and motorsports, and still be one of the most profitable in the industry... something is clearly wrong at Honda HQ. For example, Acura can barely scrub together peanut change to support NSXPO but Porsche put on a stupid amazing event the same weekend at Rennsport Reunion. It was a depressing realization coming from a Honda fan such as myself.

ITO needs to go.

Thank god they somewhat salvaged the Civic Type R. It's ugly but an amazing handling vehicle. Worthy of the Type R badge.

Thanks for your insight @Mogami
I don't want to be a complete d-bag so I need to explain that I didn't come to my conclusions by just commentary or even idle chit chat from one single person who has/had insight. That would be totally unfair to those individuals. It's just the way Honda Corporate does business. It's the business process. It's the design by committee and the priority for the bottom line and to hit sales targets at all costs. It's the decision to remove and value engineer certain things that Soichiro would never have done. I mean for example... the AMAZING guys at HART. Those guys are incredible. They are able to cobble together a budget to go racing on their own time, as a completely voluntary team. I mean... honestly, that is extremely commendable to the guys but Honda... that kind of support is pathetic! These guys are already giving their heart and soul and they've gotta find chassis from hand me downs, etc. To me that seems nuts coming from a company with Motorsport heritage.
 
It's just the way Honda Corporate does business. It's the business process. It's the design by committee and the priority for the bottom line and to hit sales targets at all costs. It's the decision to remove and value engineer certain things that Soichiro would never have done.

The reason for this is that in the late 90's Honda (at the board level most likely) decided they wanted to be Toyota. At the time, Toyota was cranking out ultra-reliable, vanilla people movers, growing to be the largest car company in the world and raking in the cash. They did all of this with almost no performance/sports-oriented products except for the Celica (the Supra having been terminated). Honda was no doubt envious and took a look at their own product line, concluding the cars, while reliable and excellent, were too expensive to produce, over-engineered and overly-focused on niche markets like sports cars. The Old Man was long dead, so they made a major corporate strategic decision to model the big T. In a few short years, they put a bullet in the head of the NSX, S2000 and Prelude. The Integra also disappeared. The Civic ditched independent suspension for a cheaper McPherson strut. The HSV was shitcanned and the company focused on "EarthDreams" and cranking out MDXs to suburban soccer moms. As a corporate strategy, it all worked. Today's Honda/Acura lineup is a comfortable, profitable mishmash of uninspiring automotive blobs, all running on tired VTEC technology from the 1990's. The Pilot, CRV, Accord, Civic, MDX and ILX all look the same- a sort of bland, company-car image that evokes visions of a middle manager at some leviathan data processing mega-corporation. I imagine these cars all parked in a line at some huge, soulless suburban office-park. It's just so sad that the brand has devolved into this.

The only hope for the future is John Conner, er, the NC1 NSX and the new RDX, which appears to be designed by people who actually like cars. Honda likely will never choose the Porsche model because, well, they don't have to. They are making tons of money with the vanilla Toyota model. Though, even the big T sponsors racing and even campaigns in NASCAR!

What always has preplexed me is Ito. He was a chassis engineer on the NA1 NSX project and you would think that would make him a friend to the enthusiast. But, it seems he had a board and shareholders to whom he must answer. The new CEO, Takahiro Hachigo, has a product background of developing the first Odyssey minivan. My hope for the future is therefore not strong. Honda needs its vigor and mojo back, and it is not with minivans. They should look back to the 80's and 90's and go back to that- their golden years.
 
Thx you!

90's was the golden age for Honda, from CRX, Prelude, Civic Si/R Integra, (somehow, NA Integra was ugly) and of course NSX and S2000 ....

I am still very happy with the New NSX, not compare to the as quick but cost double Ferrari 488, or Huracan anymore, even the 911 Turbo S, but more realistic, Audi R8, which is also around $180K for the 540HP (the standard R8 is more direct compare to the NSX), AMG GTC, even the Aston Vantage, BMW i8 etc they are also around $150-180K "Daily drivable" super cars..

But I do agree Honda should make a more "hard core" version NSX, not to pump sale volume, but as "Halo" car!
 
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The reason for this is that in the late 90's Honda (at the board level most likely) decided they wanted to be Toyota. At the time, Toyota was cranking out ultra-reliable, vanilla people movers, growing to be the largest car company in the world and raking in the cash. They did all of this with almost no performance/sports-oriented products except for the Celica (the Supra having been terminated). Honda was no doubt envious and took a look at their own product line, concluding the cars, while reliable and excellent, were too expensive to produce, over-engineered and overly-focused on niche markets like sports cars. The Old Man was long dead, so they made a major corporate strategic decision to model the big T. In a few short years, they put a bullet in the head of the NSX, S2000 and Prelude. The Integra also disappeared. The Civic ditched independent suspension for a cheaper McPherson strut. The HSV was shitcanned and the company focused on "EarthDreams" and cranking out MDXs to suburban soccer moms. As a corporate strategy, it all worked. Today's Honda/Acura lineup is a comfortable, profitable mishmash of uninspiring automotive blobs, all running on tired VTEC technology from the 1990's. The Pilot, CRV, Accord, Civic, MDX and ILX all look the same- a sort of bland, company-car image that evokes visions of a middle manager at some leviathan data processing mega-corporation. I imagine these cars all parked in a line at some huge, soulless suburban office-park. It's just so sad that the brand has devolved into this.

The only hope for the future is John Conner, er, the NC1 NSX and the new RDX, which appears to be designed by people who actually like cars. Honda likely will never choose the Porsche model because, well, they don't have to. They are making tons of money with the vanilla Toyota model. Though, even the big T sponsors racing and even campaigns in NASCAR!

What always has preplexed me is Ito. He was a chassis engineer on the NA1 NSX project and you would think that would make him a friend to the enthusiast. But, it seems he had a board and shareholders to whom he must answer. The new CEO, Takahiro Hachigo, has a product background of developing the first Odyssey minivan. My hope for the future is therefore not strong. Honda needs its vigor and mojo back, and it is not with minivans. They should look back to the 80's and 90's and go back to that- their golden years.

Very well written. You could have a future in automotive journalism!!
 
Ito told his engineers to make a NSX replacement using core model parts bin because he was tired of his engineers and the press pressuring him for a sports car.A little history on Ito is he is the number 1 reason the FR V10 NSX and Acura Tier 1 was cancelled(he is more concerned with cost cutting and catching Toyota in Global sales).

The NSX was designed as a mid-engine RLX(remember the mid-engine Accord rumors).But Ito put a wrench to those plans by changing the projects goal by stating to the public that it will race from day one.The engineers informed him that a transverse J35 engine will not work in the GT3 or GTLM classes.So he gave the ok to a new long. layout power-train but still using the RLX parts bin hybrid system.

So the problem with the NSX is there is too many core model parts bin items in it's design to make very quick changes to it.

It's problem parts....

1) RLX eSH-AWD(rear eMotor in bell housing and too low powered TMU that is rev limited to 120 mph. The TMU can be fixed but do not expect it until MMC.The flywheel eMotor might be a bigger problem to make more powerful because of it's location(cooling,space and reliability problems).

2)Core model interior parts.

3)Hybrid trans not able to handle HP increase because of the rear eMotor design.Honda going too tricky like their 2015-16 F1 PU(compactness over power and reliability).


Mogami, found this in the March 2012 issue of Road & Track:
”Our sources in Japan say that the future NSX will be powered by a 310 HP 3.5L V6 gas engine and two electric motors
good for an additional 100HP, for a total of 410 HP...it’s rumored to hit 60 in 3.0 sec.”

There’s the SOHC J35 and RLX setup you were referring to (388HP reality vs a 410HP rumor back then)...
 
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