The NSX wasn't designed to be the best.

[Mogami]

Ito told his engineers to make a NSX replacement using core model parts bin because he was tired of his engineers and the press pressuring him for a sports car.A little history on Ito is he is the number 1 reason the FR V10 NSX and Acura Tier 1 was cancelled(he is more concerned with cost cutting and catching Toyota in Global sales).

The NSX was designed as a mid-engine RLX(remember the mid-engine Accord rumors).But Ito put a wrench to those plans by changing the projects goal by stating to the public that it will race from day one.The engineers informed him that a transverse J35 engine will not work in the GT3 or GTLM classes.So he gave the ok to a new long. layout power-train but still using the RLX parts bin hybrid system.

So the problem with the NSX is there is too many core model parts bin items in it's design to make very quick changes to it.

It's problem parts....

1) RLX eSH-AWD(rear eMotor in bell housing and too low powered TMU that is rev limited to 120 mph. The TMU can be fixed but do not expect it until MMC.The flywheel eMotor might be a bigger problem to make more powerful because of it's location(cooling,space and reliability problems).

2)Core model interior parts.

3)Hybrid trans not able to handle HP increase because of the rear eMotor design.Honda going too tricky like their 2015-16 F1 PU(compactness over power and reliability).

 

[gaymondleerpv]

It sure is the best in my book. There is no other car currently that I would rather have (if I had to actually daily drive it) or drive. I don't need a manual (I can just hop in my 1st gen ctsc nsx or preferably on my motorcycle) and having the best 0-60mph/1/4 mile/top speed aren't my main priority (but I wouldn't complain either if we had more hp). I just drive it in automatic and quiet mode and always get out telling everyone who asks me about it that it's the best car made that I have driven, ridden in or own. She's not even close to being the prettiest car in my eyes in the supercar rankings but she's still pretty and her personality (different driving modes, reliability and outward visibility) wins me over every time. She's exotic in that you will not see another one every day and when I do I see another I always get excited to see who the owner is vs seeing a lambo/mclaren/porsche/ferrari. Those are all nice but I do see most/all of those cars every day living right next to the switchbacks in Palos Verdes. I was just at the mall with my daughter (ice skate class for her) and as I'm leaving there is a mexico blue 991 turbo I always see and a red 488. Sometimes an orange huracan conv is there as well as the guy's daughter also skates.

 

[fastaussie]

It sure is the best in my book. There is no other car currently that I would rather have (if I had to actually daily drive it) or drive. I don't need a manual (I can just hop in my 1st gen ctsc nsx or preferably on my motorcycle) and having the best 0-60mph/1/4 mile/top speed aren't my main priority (but I wouldn't complain either if we had more hp). I just drive it in automatic and quiet mode and always get out telling everyone who asks me about it that it's the best car made that I have driven, ridden in or own. She's not even close to being the prettiest car in my eyes in the supercar rankings but she's still pretty and her personality (different driving modes, reliability and outward visibility) wins me over every time. She's exotic in that you will not see another one every day and when I do I see another I always get excited to see who the owner is vs seeing a lambo/mclaren/porsche/ferrari. Those are all nice but I do see most/all of those cars every day living right next to the switchbacks in Palos Verdes. I was just at the mall with my daughter (ice skate class for her) and as I'm leaving there is a mexico blue 991 turbo I always see and a red 488. Sometimes an orange huracan conv is there as well as the guy's daughter also skates.

a very fortunate neighbourhood... :biggrin:

 

[piano]

It is not the best for sure, but that is not the point ...

People (me too) buy the NSX not because it is the best, as it is not $2million dollar as well ..

It is still the best and only choice for Japanese high end sports car in the market, until Lexus LCF (if they do it) .. The Nissan GTR is nice too, but aged and not luxury nor fancy, and we are still talking $130K loaded and $180K for the Nismo (remember when the same generation GTR was $70K? )

I do agree the NSX could be and should be better, slightly higher peak combined HP, more "unique" interior, 100KG lighter, couple inch longer, slightly bit lower/lower seating position, more colour choices ..bluh bluh bluh .. but for 150-160K ? I am not going to complain about it ..

 

[Mogami]

There was two directions they could of gone from day one.

1) No HEV and raise the ICE to 570hp(3300 lbs) but that would just be a 458 with a sound muffler(turbos). Honda CEO would never sign off on that.

2) Raise the Hybrid power level to compensate for the added weight(about double the power of the RLX....120-130hp)from day one... 620-630hp total(not a crazy number but broke the magic 600hp)

 

[piano]

I agree to go with option 2 ...

Option 1 is easy, and what "key board warriors" want, but Hybrid is one biggest reason for NSX to stand out.

Ideally, offer both versions, ~ 540-550HP ICE, 3300-3500lb and a 600+ HP (again, 3 motors ~123HP + 500 HP engine = 573, I am not too sure how it works, I know all power can't be added, but that is 50HP lost, I guess at certain rpm, the rear motor will shut?)

Anyway, it is what it is now ..

 

[Gondo89]

It is not the best for sure, but that is not the point ...

People (me too) buy the NSX not because it is the best, as it is not $2million dollar as well ..

It is still the best and only choice for Japanese high end sports car in the market, until Lexus LCF (if they do it) .. The Nissan GTR is nice too, but aged and not luxury nor fancy, and we are still talking $130K loaded and $180K for the Nismo (remember when the same generation GTR was $70K? )

I do agree the NSX could be and should be better, slightly higher peak combined HP, more "unique" interior, 100KG lighter, couple inch longer, slightly bit lower/lower seating position, more colour choices ..bluh bluh bluh .. but for 150-160K ? I am not going to complain about it ..

You can buy a new GT-R for $85K. They list at $99K and transactions are happening in the $85-$90K level.
Thats why Nissan is selling 40-50 a month, steadily, for 10 years. Even a Premium model with the upgraded leather interior can be purchased in the $90K range. Wheh you consider that the R35 is faster than the NC1 in 0-60, 1/4 mile, 1-2 mile, top speed, track tests and can be modified with unlimited potential, it’s clesr why it’s attracting a sustained number of buyers every month, year after year. The GT-R is also iconic around the world...NA1-2 is iconic...but not NC1...the image Acura wanted did not materialize...

 

[Gondo89]

Ito told his engineers to make a NSX replacement using core model parts bin because he was tired of his engineers and the press pressuring him for a sports car.A little history on Ito is he is the number 1 reason the FR V10 NSX and Acura Tier 1 was cancelled(he is more concerned with cost cutting and catching Toyota in Global sales).

The NSX was designed as a mid-engine RLX(remember the mid-engine Accord rumors).But Ito put a wrench to those plans by changing the projects goal by stating to the public that it will race from day one.The engineers informed him that a transverse J35 engine will not work in the GT3 or GTLM classes.So he gave the ok to a new long. layout power-train but still using the RLX parts bin hybrid system.

So the problem with the NSX is there is too many core model parts bin items in it's design to make very quick changes to it.

It's problem parts....

1) RLX eSH-AWD(rear eMotor in bell housing and too low powered TMU that is rev limited to 120 mph. The TMU can be fixed but do not expect it until MMC.The flywheel eMotor might be a bigger problem to make more powerful because of it's location(cooling,space and reliability problems).

2)Core model interior parts.

3)Hybrid trans not able to handle HP increase because of the rear eMotor design.Honda going too tricky like their 2015-16 F1 PU(compactness over power and reliability).

thanks for these insights, mogami. So this means Honda was restricted from Day 1 in how competitive they could make NC1 due to the self-imposed barriers of the RLX hybrid drivetrain. Whereas the V10 NSX was a scratch-built design in true Honda spirit, NC1 was essentially Ito’s parts bin special that fortunately scored a Cosworth-built V6 when Ito was told he had no high performance V6s in inventory...imagine what this car would have looked like with no parts bin mentality...major missed opportunity...btw you have impressive contacts...

 

[Z06nsxcts]

I get a feeling Honda didn’t really want to make this car and only did it just to shut people up who kept clamoring for a new one. Having owned Both generations I feel like the first one was made with some passion and the second one was kind of like “yeah whatever”... not that it’s not a great car I just don’t think It’s high on their priority list. But hey there is an option for orange now!

mc

 

[Heavymetals]

IMO it was a "poop or get off the pot" situation.
HONDA had been threatening/promising the car for 5 years and the act was getting stale.
IMO if they would have made it a V10 it would have been a $300k car.

 

[nsx_2k]

Mogami, Great information, as usual. It seems that the path chosen by leadership may have doomed this vehicle from the start. For those who claim that the hybrid is what sets this car apart from others. You are correct, it is also why a number of people are disinterested in this car. It also sounds like many of the dealers (and buyers) would have preferred the non-hybrid version as well. As for the re-use of core interior parts, I don't think that is as big a deal as some may make. Many of the Honda/Acura interiors of the current line up have fairly nice buttons/switches so re-using them on the NSX isn't a major issue and helps keep costs down. Sure the infotainment system could have been different (or maybe even reduced) but it isn't something that scares buyers away.

 

[DJ Iceman]

If that story is true (and it certainly sounds plausible), then they did the usual worst-of-all-worlds to the car. Using "parts bin" stuff should have kept the price closer to $100k, or they should have gone full-on top-quality with the price point where it is now. *sigh*

 

[Mogami]

If that story is true (and it certainly sounds plausible), then they did the usual worst-of-all-worlds to the car. Using "parts bin" stuff should have kept the price closer to $100k, or they should have gone full-on top-quality with the price point where it is now. *sigh*

If they would of went 100% full-on-top-quality then the NSX would of been $300K.The only thing the engineers agreed with the cost-cutting CEO Ito was that $300k base price was a NO GO!
This NSX was a below $100K car until the new Race Spec Cosworth(Honda Design) Engine.

 

[Gondo89]

If they would of went 100% full-on-top-quality then the NSX would of been $300K.The only thing the engineers agreed with the cost-cutting CEO Ito was that $300k base price was a NO GO!
This NSX was a below $100K car until the new Race Spec Cosworth(Honda Design) Engine.

The Question that comes to mind is would they have sold substantially more NC1s with a highly tuned VTEC J35 + RLX hybrid donor parts for $90-$100K? Even with less performance across the board I’m thinking the answer is yes...

 

[Mogami]

The Question that comes to mind is would they have sold substantially more NC1s with a highly tuned VTEC J35 + RLX hybrid donor parts for $90-$100K? Even with less performance across the board I’m thinking the answer is yes...

No and the the auto press would of embarrass them for making it.

 

[Honcho]

In 1990, the MSRP for the original NSX, which we all agree was a "maximum effort" product with one of the most advanced engines in the world, was $60,000. In 2018 dollars, that works out to a little over $118,000 today. Thus, the NC1, which after incentives, etc can be had for around $140,000, is not really that much more expensive. All the belly-aching on this sub-forum over the price seems misplaced to me. Just like in 1990, you're getting a lot for the money.

 

[DJ Iceman]

I would think impressing the buying public would be more important than impressing the auto press, Mogami.

And we can respectfully disagree with each other on the value proposition of the 2nd gen NSX, Honcho, but it would seem that the marketplace is more on my side of the argument.

 

[docjohn]

it is simply another flavor of the exotic 2 seat sports car.....those that buy it or lease seem to love it....and the low production actually helps the cause...the car gets lots of action at shows/meets....

 

[Tom239]

If part of the point in making a halo car is to showcase your engineering skills, it seems odd to me that key parts of the engine are outsourced to Cosworth. This isn't a huge deal but it's not the approach Honda took with the NA1.

 

[NSXY.]

If part of the point in making a halo car is to showcase your engineering skills, it seems odd to me that key parts of the engine are outsourced to Cosworth. This isn't a huge deal but it's not the approach Honda took with the NA1.

Its fairly common and wise to outsource or consult other professionals in the industry. Regarding the GT-R Lotus helped with the chassis, Cosworth the engine, and Borgwarner with the GR6 trans.

The hybrid system and TMU hardware/software, brake by wire, regenerative braking is very impressive on Honda's behalf from an engineering standpoint. Lets not forget the 8yr/100k warranty on the hybrid systems as well. Impressive to me.

 

[gaymondleerpv]

I would think impressing the buying public would be more important than impressing the auto press, Mogami.

And we can respectfully disagree with each other on the value proposition of the 2nd gen NSX, Honcho, but it would seem that the marketplace is more on my side of the argument.

It's an nsx and should have leading edge tech in the car. Most people probably think (if they even care) the car is still priced too high due to the msrp. They would probably have sold more cars if the msrp was $20k-30k less from the get go but I wouldn't want a 300k nsx nor do I want a $90k-100k car branded an nsx with parts bin low spec equipment (non hybrid)

 

[tbuff]

It's an nsx and should have leading edge tech in the car. Most people probably think (if they even care) the car is still priced too high due to the msrp. They would probably have sold more cars if the msrp was $20k-30k less from the get go but I wouldn't want a 300k nsx nor do I want a $90k-100k car branded an nsx with parts bin low spec equipment (non hybrid)

All the bench racers dont like the car.

I've owned a Ferrari, driven McLarens etc, and I love the NSX. Great car.

 

[Jinks]

^Sounds like you like variety. But if you could only own one, which would that be??? Me personally, the Nsx would be my last choice.

 

[Mogami]

The NSX development team in Ohio had the right idea of picking the 458 as the car spec to meet and they pretty much met it but by the time the NSX went on sale the 458 was history and replaced by the 488.

They did a great job with the NSX but the extra weight(500 lbs) of the hybrid system was like running with the anchor out and the only way to fix that was more power(Honda Japan thinking was 573 HP was too much and their lawyers wanted less).

It should of debuted with 550 hp from the ICE from day one to make up for the extra weight at the $150-200k price range.

500 hp from a race design engine is embarrassing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[gaymondleerpv]

^Sounds like you like variety. But if you could only own one, which would that be??? Me personally, the Nsx would be my last choice.

2017 NSX is my first choice. I had a 2012 997.2 turbo cab pdk and drove it maybe 2k miles in 2 years, had a 2011 Boxster Spyder stick shift and carbon seats. Drove it about 550 miles in 25 months and sold it about 2 weeks ago. Had a 2008 Gallardo Spyder e-gear and drove that 1500 miles in 15 months and sold it about 3 weeks ago. Bought my wife a 458 italia 3 weeks ago and only cared to drive that to keep the battery from going flat. I haven't touched it this week since I bought a ctek with correct adapter to charge it. Have owned my 1991 NSX CTSC for 18+ years but have only maybe driven 30 miles since 10/17 after I bought the 2017 nsx. Almost bought a mclaren 12c spider about a month ago, prefer the 12c price but 458 won out. I prefer the 2017 nsx as my daily driver over the 458 every single day. It has a better (although not great) radio interface to better couple holder to non twitchy throttle. I have approx 4500 miles on my car since October 2017 and would drive it more but it splits time with my lx570 when I need more room for passengers. The 458 looks much nicer, gets far more attention, has much more luggage space and interior room, has front lift, foldable mirrors, and I like the led steering wheel but the nsx is the only one I want to drive. I've driven the 2018 aventador s on the track and in my mind I would want to drive that everyday but I know it wouldn't be a better daily driver than the nc1. I also have driven a fellow prime members I8 quite a few times (im the designated driver lol) and don't like it due to all the electrical gremlins he's had and being underpowered but it looks cool. He also bought the 12c spider I was going to get and the interior is a little cramped when we went out for a long drive. Kept rubbing elbows which was a little annoying and the quality of some parts like the door opening rubber was worn out at 13k miles. He prefers the 458 over his 12c so that may be his next addition. I can't get him to buy an nc1 as I think its not flashy enough for him