TEIN NSX Flex suspension - who's tried 'em and why do you like them?

[tbromley]

Hey guys,

Looks like it must happen to everyone that get's these NSXs. You get it sorted out maintenance wise and then you start thinking of mods....right. Well that's kind of where I am. So I'd like to be able to lower my car and yet have a fully adjustable suspension. I've heard that the Tein flex coil overs are nice and aren't too firm on the easy setting yet will really firm up when needed for the track.

My question to all of you that have had suspension mods - whether Zanardi or R type or othe coil overs is to tell me whether on the least firms settings - and I believe the Teins have 20 settings and are adjustable within 2" - they are no more firm than OEM or a most Zanardi type suspension. I'm looking for you guys that have gone away from OEM and have tried these flex shocks to tell me how close to OEM you can get on the least firm setting.

Thanks guys, I appreciate your input.

 

[Mac Attack]

It's not just dampening adjustments - it's also spring rates. While you can vary the dampening, your spring rates are fixed, unless you find a coilover with progressive springs.

I don't have experience with the Flex's, but I believe they are linear springs. The spring rates are 10kg/mm (560lb/in) front and 12kg/mm (672lb/in) rear - over a 300% increase compared to OEM. So, even if your dampening is set on the lowest setting, you'll still get a much stiffer ride than OEM.

A better option than the Flex's would be to go with a lower spring rate coilover system. KSports (what I have) offer custom spring rates, and KW's have a good reputation here (albeit more $) for offering a nice ride with their 300lb/in rates yet dampening that will firm up your ride when driving spiritedly.

Personally, I don't like progressive springs since I'm more of the performance-oriented type, but I could see their benefits on a primarily-driven street car. I wonder if any coilovers offer progressive springs?

I highly recommend riding in NSX's with various suspensions to get a 1st hand feel as to what YOU prefer.

Good luck!

Dave

 

[synth19]

^ I agree 100%. Tim, I have the flex and I don't think they are the best coilovers for you. It might be a bit too harsh for your tastes.

 

[FXMDBilly]

As Dave said, increasing the spring rate will stiffen the ride primarily due to the suspension not compressing as far when hitting a given bump (harsher jolt).

I've never been a big fan of higher rear spring rates than front on the NSX, especially for a street car. Due to the motion ratio of the NSX, these types of setups make the rear wheel rate VERY high, which makes for an oversteering car and a harsher ride with stiff springs in the back where all the weight is.

I had Tein Flexes on my personal car and wasn't the biggest fan of them. Tein's have high spring rates (which can be fine) but they have minimal droop travel (also affects ride quality) and it seems like the damper is rebound-adjustable only. Softening the damper too much makes it under-damped and a 'bouncy' ride. Adding more damping reduces this cadillac-esque 'bouncing' but stiffens the ride. Too much damping (rebound) and then when you drive over rough roads like our crappy LA streets, the combination of stiff rebound and lack of droop travel can actually make the car catch air, or jerk you into your seatbelts at a minimum. While personal preferences are subjective, the Flexes got quite old for me personally. If I lived in an area that had smooth-as-glass roads, or the roads I took the car were always smooth, then it would be totally bearable and my outlook would have been different.

As far as the Tein Family goes, I liked the RAs a little better than the Flex, and the MonoFlex is a better damper than the Flex but unfortunately has even higher spring rates.

Ive also really liked the HKS Hypermax III coilovers and for a similar price as the Flex, I liked the JIC FLT-A2 more than the Flex.

I personally have the KW V3 on my street car and feel its one of the best options out for the NSX. The spring rates are on the softer side but the double-adjustable damper (rebound and compression damping separate) allows a whole new world of adjustability and tuning of your suspension and car's handling. The V3 was tuned on KW's 7-post rig and around the Nurburgring to beat the NSX-R's laptime, and they succeeded. KW is an OEM-manufacturer for Mercedes' AMG "Black Series" cars (so the ride quality must meet Mercedes' standards -which says alot) as well as the Nurburgring track-record setting (for a street car) Viper ACR.

INVEST in your suspension. It's something you have to live with every second you are in the car and it's probably the second most important aspect of your car other than your tires.

Flex: 560lb / 672 rear
Mono Flex: 672lb / 784 rear
HKS Hypermax III: 448lb / 504
JIC FLT-A2: 506lb / 564 rear
KW V3: 345lb / 345lb rear

We do offer custom spring rates for any of the above dampers and have done extensive testing on the KW V3s. Through our NSX race experience, we are very familiar with many of the above dampes and many spring rate combinations for the NSX platform and various tire sizes.

http://nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124373


Billy

 

[Mac Attack]

I highly recommend riding in NSX's with various suspensions to get a 1st hand feel as to what YOU prefer.

Also, if you do ride in others' cars, keep in mind if they've done much to change the weight, and also what tire profile they have.

A heavy NSX with body kit, stereo, etc and 16/17" tires (higher profile tires that will absorb some road imperfections), will have a softer ride on the same coilovers than a lighter NSX (no stereo, spare tire, tool kit, etc) with 18/19" tires.

Dave

 

[Honcho]

Tim-

I am in the same boat as you, as noted in my other thread. Looking at the options, my research has turned up the following conclusions:

1.) No matter what you get, make sure you get spring rates that are higher in the front if you plan on tracking the NSX. This comes directly from Shad at Driving Ambition and Billy in other threads.

2.) TEIN Flex and Mono are not that great. The aluminum RA was much better.

3.) KW V3 is probably the best option for the NSX aside from Moton, JRZ or CT Pro.

4.) If you can't afford the KW, the JIC FLT-A2 with SOS-spec springs is one of the best coilover options.

5.) NA2 NSX-R suspension is the best non-adjustable option, but has comfort and ride height issues.

6.) The Zanardi/Type-S setup is a GREAT street/track alternative to coilovers.

7.) Stay away from D2, Megan, etc. The sub-$1000 sets have quality/reliability issues that you likely do not want to experience at 130 mph on the track.

8.) If you want to stay under $1000 (like me lol), go with a set of valve-matched Bilsteins or Konis with either Zanardi/Type-R springs or custom springs. When it is time for me, I will look to FXMD to set me up with Swift springs spec'd to custom rates.

This is the result of several weeks of using the seach button. Hope it helps!

 

[BATMANs]

Tim-

I am in the same boat as you, as noted in my other thread. Looking at the options, my research has turned up the following conclusions:

1.) No matter what you get, make sure you get spring rates that are higher in the front if you plan on tracking the NSX. This comes directly from Shad at Driving Ambition and Billy in other threads.

2.) TEIN Flex and Mono are not that great. The aluminum RA was much better.

3.) KW is probably the best option for the NSX aside from Moton, JRZ or CT Pro.

4.) If you can't afford the KW, the JIC FLT-A2 with SOS-spec springs is one of the best coilover options.

5.) NA2 NSX-R suspension is the best non-adjustable option, but has comfort and ride height issues.

6.) The Zanardi/Type-S setup is a GREAT street/track alternative to coilovers.

7.) Stay away from D2, Megan, etc. The sub-$1000 sets have quality/reliability issues that you likely do not want to experience at 130 mph on the track.

8.) If you want to stay under $1000 (like me lol), go with a set of valve-matched Bilsteins or Konis with either Zanardi/Type-R springs or custom springs. When it is time for me, I will look to FXMD to set me up with Swift springs spec'd to custom rates.

This is the result of several weeks of using the seach button. Hope it helps!

+1

I have the Tein's with the EDFC.

It came with the NSX when I bought it.

They ONLY thing that I like about it is being able to hit a button in the cockpit on the EDFC to adjust the ride quality on the fly.

What I hate about it (compared to Konis) is that if and when u hit a bump in the road u may loose contact with one of the tires when it catches air.

The wheel is limited on how far they drop down. Not sure why. But perhaps it's for "racing" application where they spend less time jacking the car off the ground to be able to change the tires/wheels.

 

[tbromley]

First of all I want to thank everyone for thier post! A ton of great information. Mac Speed your comments really struck a note on spring compliance.

Billy, I'm preparing an email to you about V3s and spring rates.

Honcho - good buddy- thanks - you are speaking to me and I hear you loud and clear -but I have some questions - have you ridden on the KW V3s? Are they compatible with the Swift springs - or are you going custion? Do you have the specs right at your finger tips of the OEM spring rates. I know - search but if you do and it's not too much trouble I sure would appreciate the info. That is the standard all these other rates would be compared to to make any sense of all this to my tiny brain. Lots to take in.

Otherwise, RJRKRP(Ron) has mentioned these Swift springs to me as well. My car now rides about 3/4" too high since I put on the 05 springs and shocks - why I'm not sure - maybe they're softer due to the targa top and maybe the weight of the later model has something to do with it but there it is. I do however like the feel of the set up -so I really want to make sure I do not get some stiff ass ride out of this next change even though I will not be doing this right away. Mabe not even till next year as I have a lot of travel to do this year and it will be expensive. I don't have any babies on the way - too old for that - but this is my big 60th birthday and I'm going to go on some excursions. I wish I could do it all at the same time and next year I hope I can.

Billy, I'm waiting righ now to hear from Jim about his buddy in San Diego about short gears. There are really some cool things I'd like to do with the car all at once - short gears, springs and shocks, non compliance clamps and non compliance rear beam hopefully for around 5grand. I do not ever plan to mess with the naturally aspirated condition of the engine. It is fast enough for me.

I loved the Zanardi set up in Eiffel's car. It wasn't too stiff and yet it was just right in the firm department. So for me the pefect set up would be a ride like the Zanardi but about 1" lower than I am right now. You see like I said Eiffel put the Zanardis on his car - shocks and springs and the car was not lowered but actually raised to about where mine is now - weird! Remember Eiffel is an Acura mechanic and has his own shop which I have used several times now.

So if the Swift springs and then bilsteins or Zanardi shocks would work for the ride compliance I'd like cause I am mostly a street driver - I drive my car a lot and I'm no track dude. Although I would like to do some tracking I haven't really the time and money to do a lot of it. I just want my NSX to be the best it can be for fun street driving. Forget about the track right now - I may do a little - but I'm all about perfect street compliance with a "sweet" feel and a little lower ride height that will not sacrifice any streetability. Does that make any sense. Maybe a custom set of springs for height?

I hope Billy and Honcho will answer a bit more. Also thanks to Synth- your post was a really good one. I'm sure I'm on the right track here. I know it's hard to describe adequately but I don't know how I'm going to ride in a lot of cars - BUT - I'm planning on attending NSXPO this year in Vegas. To meet Jim and Billy and any of the rest of my adopted brothers here on Prime. Looking really forward to that - another one of these excursions that I was talking about!

Thanks again guys - ya'll are the best!:smile:

 

[Honcho]

First of all I want to thank everyone for thier post! A ton of great information. Mac Speed your comments really struck a note on spring compliance.

Billy, I'm preparing an email to you about V3s and spring rates.

Honcho - good buddy- thanks - you are speaking to me and I hear you loud and clear -but I have some questions - you didn't mention V3s? Do you have the specs right at your finger tips of the OEM spring rates. I know - search but if you do and it's not too much trouble I sure would appreciate the infor. That is the standard all these other rates would be compared to to make any sense of all this to my tiny brain. Lots to take in.

Sorry, I should have said "KW V3" in #3. I edited it to change. The "stock rates" for the V3 are 350/350 IIRC, but I'm sure Billy can let you know. Honestly, if you're not really going to track the car, you should just put some Dali or Swift lowering springs on your 2005 OEM dampers. I think you'll be happy.

Rather than the shocks/springs, I would recommend you add some Dali street/track sway bars. It will have a significant and noticeable improvement on cornering with a negligible effect on ride quality. I have RM Racing 19.05mm sways F/R and my NSX corners flat as a board. The only reason I'm even thinking of changing out my Koni/Comptech Sport suspension is that it feels floaty at ~100mph...

 

[FXMDBilly]

What I hate about it (compared to Konis) is that if and when u hit a bump in the road u may loose contact with one of the tires when it catches air.

The wheel is limited on how far they drop down. Not sure why. But perhaps it's for "racing" application where they spend less time jacking the car off the ground to be able to change the tires/wheels.

Yes, that is a lack of droop-travel. A very popular 'coilover' design from many companies is to have a separate spring perch and threaded body for an adjustable housing - 2 ways to adjust ride height and spring 'preload'. This is a clever design that is not really used in any forms of sports car racing.

A big reason for this design is for a universal damper to be used in many different applications without designing car model-specific dampers. The downside to this is a lack of droop and compression travel. You can have enough compression travel at the cost of droop travel, or if you increase droop travel, you reduce your compression travel and bottom out the shock. One way they got around this (and for some companies -poor/cheap valving) is to use very high spring rates and rely on the spring rather than a proper functioning damper to reduce body roll and 'improve' handling. Generally speaking, softer springs yield more grip.

Having a proper, high quality damper is important in controlling the loading of a tire and body roll, then soft springs allow for the tire to not be over-worked and distribute the load across all 4 tires, and thus make more grip.

The KW's have individual car-specific dampers that were designed with a proper range of droop and compression travel. This increases the cost since they don't use a universal damper for most of their kits, but each kit is designed with a proper range of motion and are able to use ideal spring rates (through track and 7post testing) that are not compromised from a lack of suspension travel. KW's come with recommended ride-height ranges to allow for proper compression and droop travel at the given ride heights. A lot of engineering goes into all of their suspension kits. It's quite impressive. KW's are also TUV-approved which isn't possible with the Asian-style coilovers.

Billy, I'm preparing an email to you about V3s and spring rates.

Billy, I'm waiting righ now to hear from Jim about his buddy in San Diego about short gears. There are really some cool things I'd like to do with the car all at once - short gears, springs and shocks, non compliance clamps and non compliance rear beam hopefully for around 5grand. I do not ever plan to mess with the naturally aspirated condition of the engine. It is fast enough for me.

I loved the Zanardi set up in Eiffel's car. It wasn't too stiff and yet it was just right in the firm department. So for me the pefect set up would be a ride like the Zanardi but about 1" lower than I am right now. You see like I said Eiffel put the Zanardis on his car - shocks and springs and the car was not lowered but actually raised to about where mine is now - weird! Remember Eiffel is an Acura mechanic and has his own shop which I have used several times now.

So if the Swift springs and then bilsteins or Zanardi shocks would work for the ride compliance I'd like cause I am mostly a street driver - I drive my car a lot and I'm no track dude. Although I would like to do some tracking I haven't really the time and money to do a lot of it. I just want my NSX to be the best it can be for fun street driving. Forget about the track right now - I may do a little - but I'm all about perfect street compliance with a "sweet" feel and a little lower ride height that will not sacrifice any streetability. Does that make any sense. Maybe a custom set of springs for height?

I hope Billy and Honcho will answer a bit more. Also thanks to Synth- your post was a really good one. I'm sure I'm on the right track here. I know it's hard to describe adequately but I don't know how I'm going to ride in a lot of cars - BUT - I'm planning on attending NSXPO this year in Vegas. To meet Jim and Billy and any of the rest of my adopted brothers here on Prime. Looking really forward to that - another one of these excursions that I was talking about!

Thanks again guys - ya'll are the best!:smile:

Due to the spring rates and the wide range of damping from the KW's, they can ride as good or better than the Zanardis while having similar droop travel and enough compression travel that won't cause your suspension to bottom out. Lowering a stock suspension too far by springs alone reduces the compression travel and for some cars (not sure about the NSX) can cause them to bottom out over big bumps due to the lack of travel, lower ride height, and mild increase in spring rate. My M3 with H&R lowering springs is an excellent example of this, the car bottoms out over big bumps and shocks the whole car. If you have smooth roads, this isn't as much of a concern and it might still be fine for the NSX.


From what I've read/researched over the years:

NA2 NSX-R: 582lb / 465
Zanardi: 389lb / 296
Stock 97 NSX S / Zanardi: 363lb / 279
Stock 93 NSX-R / Stock 97 S-Zero: 448lb / 336
Stock 95 NSX-R: 447lb / 319
Stock 97: 196lb / 224
Stock 96: 179lb / 212
Stock 91: 170lb / 220



Some popular FXMD spring rate packages:

1993 NSX-R / 1997 NSX S-Zero
- 8K/6.12K springs (448lb/343lb)
- $179.99

Club-Sport
- 8K/8K springs (448lb/448lb)
- $349.99

NSX-R (NA2)
- 10K/8K springs (560lb/448lb)
- $349.99

FXMD Track Pack 1
- 11K/8K springs (616lb/448lb)
- $349.99

FXMD Track Pack
- Your choice in springs front/rear, or tailored to your specific application.
- $349.99


Billy

 

[ediddynsx]

I say look into the KW V3 or the JIC FLTA2's if you're in the 2k range.

I have the JIC's myself and they are fine to me....but if the KW's were out 4 years ago then I might have had those on instead.

If I move up it will be JRZ 3 ways or KW 3 ways.

I dont like Teins period....they clang and I didn't like them.

 

[NSXAMG996TT]

First mod I made- dumped the Teins for the JIC-FLTA2s. Would like to try KW3 but waiting for more user feedback.

 

[Mac Attack]

...Honestly, if you're not really going to track the car, you should just put some Dali or Swift lowering springs on your 2005 OEM dampers. I think you'll be happy.

Rather than the shocks/springs, I would recommend you add some Dali street/track sway bars. It will have a significant and noticeable improvement on cornering with a negligible effect on ride quality. I have RM Racing 19.05mm sways F/R and my NSX corners flat as a board...

I agree.

You really only begin to need a stiffer front spring on the track when you have to decelerate from a very high speed for a tight turn. A soft spring on the front will allow your dampeners to be be fully compressed and you can potentially run into tire rubbing issues. Otherwise, stiffer sway bars will help reduce the roll in turns while having just a slightly reduced comfort level on the street.


I'm curious how many KW owners actually track their cars Sure, going from a JIC, TEIN, etc coilover on the street to a KW will feel like you're riding in a Cadillac since the KW's have half the spring rates - but it seems like the soft 350lb/in front springs are too soft for any good track duty.

Dave

 

[Mac Attack]

...KW's are also TUV-approved which isn't possible with the Asian-style coilovers.
Billy

Actually, you're mistaken :tongue:

KSport coilovers are serviceable in the U.S., while their manufacturing capabilities in Taiwan are TUV, ISO 9001/2000, TUV osterreich, and FIA compliant (they make seats too).

I just don't like the spread of misinformation, especially by someone who is sponsored by KW. I'm not sponsored by KSport or anyone else, just trying to provide neutral (I do have KSports though), objective, factual information so any other person can make their own informed decision as to what is "best" for them.

There is no perfect coilover out there for all consumers, just like there is no perfect product out there any consumer. :smile:

Dave



Was the KW NSX-R modified in any other way when compared to the OEM NSX-R (tires, power, weight reduction, etc)? Seems like it would need to be an apples-to-apples comparison for factual, meaningful results!

 

[robfenn]

As somebody who works in the world of standards, i somehow doubt KSport has such certifications for it's copied products. For the record, ISO 9001:2000 is actually a non-existant standard, it is now called ISO 9001:2008. Also, ISO 9001 is a quality management standard and has nothing to do with products.

It may be a generalisation, but too many companies in Asian countries simply buy this sort of approval, anyway, so i for one would ignore any claimed credentials by KSport. It is a corrupt industry over there which isn't regulated heavily enough.

TUV certification has an amazing reputation, for no real reason. It is straight forward to obtain certification for a product and it does not mean it make it good, it means its simply meets MINIMUM requirements to be safe.

Back on top, Tein is for ricers. Do you seem them used by race cars over the world? No. Enough said...

 

[Mac Attack]

I've helped write ASTM, ASME, and ANS standards (and work in an industry heavily-regulated, with standards enforced), so please no lectures on your personal beliefs - obviously you're biased from past posts on KSports :wink:

Sorry to get off topic, but this link is to KSports corporate website that lists their certifications:
http://www.k-sportracing.com/company_profile.html

They also list the FIA certification number for their seats here:
http://www.k-sportracing.com/others.html#

Dave

For the record, when I used to race, I only used the best - 8660/8760 Penskes. Not because they're expensive but because my mechanic could tailor them to each track and my driving style with their piston selections (digressive, linear, and velocity-dependent). I believe the OEM NSX dampeners are velocity-dependent type....

 

[tbromley]

I agree.

You really only begin to need a stiffer front spring on the track when you have to decelerate from a very high speed for a tight turn. A soft spring on the front will allow your dampeners to be be fully compressed and you can potentially run into tire rubbing issues. Otherwise, stiffer sway bars will help reduce the roll in turns while having just a slightly reduced comfort level on the street.


I'm curious how many KW owners actually track their cars Sure, going from a JIC, TEIN, etc coilover on the street to a KW will feel like you're riding in a Cadillac since the KW's have half the spring rates - but it seems like the soft 350lb/in front springs are too soft for any good track duty.

Dave

Ok, you guys have convinced me that Teins are not for me! If I had 2000 I just had to spend it sounds like the V3s are the coil over that would work best for me - cause I could tune them down to Mercedes ride quality. I have had my share of German cars and I like the suspension generally. Bimmers and Porsches all ride fine although Bimmers unless M cars probably could use some further dampning and anti roll stuff. My Porsches all had fine dampers and spring rates to me in stock form. So that'll give you a little idea of what I enjoy.

Would anyone car to expound on the idea of Swift springs on stock 05 dampers. I am leaning towards that. What are the Swift spring rates? Or are they custom? It seems like from the information Billy has provided about spring rates that a stock set up for a 91 is the softest of all the NSX models - right. So how do you pair springs and damper generally? Am I going to have a good ride say matching a Swift spring to and 05 stock shock? I am guessing since there is nothing shown here about Swift spring rates that they are firmer than the stock 05 springs by how much is what I'm curious about?

Thanks for all your input guys. I am really getting a crash course on shocks and springs and track stuff . I think I'm finally finding the guys that really know these cars from a different perspective. Since I'm going to keep this car I may as well get it like I'd like to have it. You know I've always wanted a car that I could play around with - now that I have a little money - maybe I can really have some fun! I'm all ears guys! :smile:

I don't know how much tracking I'll do but I will do some. I know what you're thinking - once I start I'll find out how much fun it is and then I'll probably wish I had gone on and done the V3s. What do you guys think is tracking like an addiction or something?

 

[FXMDBilly]

From my understanding, TUV-approval dosnt allow dampers with two forms of ride height adjustment that allow the suspension to be raised or lowered beyond TUV's safety requirements and must be certified on a part # by part # model-specific basis.

If a company has 1 damper that meets the approval, they could claim a blanket statement that "their products" are TUV-approved which is technically true but somewhat decieving. KWs offer a TUV-approved certification for all of their dampers if the owner requests the form.

As far as the spring rates go, suspension is far more than simply "high spring rates reduce roll and dive while swaybars reduce roll". Handling is a combination of dampers, springs, swaybars, alignment, tire size, tire model, wheels, offsetts, camber, toe, etc... There is a lot more to making a car balanced and handle than picking spring rates and swaybars. An ideal setup is relative to an individuals goals and car specifics. I've worked with many owners to find setups that suit their personal needs and they are rarely the same.

As far as the V3s being too soft for track use, does that mean a stock NSX can't be tracked? I've tracked a few bone-stock cars and while they roll a lot, its fine. For those loyalists: the car pitched and rolled a lot when Senna helped set up the car in the first place. There is somewhat of a misconception that racecars have stupid stiff spring rates. Many production car and GT racecars utilize very soft spring rates and exhibit a good amount of body-roll. While softer springs don't load the tire as much and generally make more grip, in many cases softer springs are beneficial. I would hardly say the V3s are "too soft" for track use. Since my car is back together I will be doing a lot of track testing and have V3 track baseline settings for the community. As far as how many KW owners track their cars? -how many NSX owners track their cars? There are many V3 equipped S2000s out at the track and I wish there were more NSXs at the track...

I don't get paid by KW but post objectively on my experience and testing of many products for the benefit of the community as a resource. Ultimately its up to the reader to decide on the advise/credibility/etc... Of comments and FXMD/I try to be a resource to bring info to the community that no one has seen before. I've owned JIC, Tein, and have driven (and tracked) more suspensions than I can remember. I've also driven a few NSXs . I could have bought any suspension for my car and have driven many options including KSport but for me personally (everyone and their tastes are different) I went with the V3s because I liked many aspects, comfort, and performance they deliver.

Most people tend to defend their purchasing decisions and are either blind to anything else/opposing views or don't have the experience to compare it to anything else (its all they know). This goes for any product or even the car itself. I personally couldn't care less and am far from a loyalist "fanboi" for anything in particular -including the NSX itself. Don't get me wrong, its a great car and I love mine, but there are thousands of great cars out there. I'm just a car nut and like many different cars. Same with suspension, I've driven most options out there (and many spring rate combinations in our race efforts) and my comments have been as objective as possible. From this wide experience of differing products, I just so happen to like the KW V3.

There are a lot of great race dampers out there for the NSX: KW, Moton/JRZ, Penske, koni, Ohlins, etc... If you compete at a high level of motorsports you need a damper that is at that level. We went with KWs before being a factory team and that's what we continue to run.

My car is a daily driver. I live in areas with crappy roads, but I occasionally (ok often) track my car. The V3 is "race technology for the street" and is double adjustable, has great and sensitive valving, and is more compliant and rides better than most coilovers out there and is OEM-Mercedes acceptable ride quality. Its not ideal for everyone, but fits my needs and I like it a lot. I have helped others decide what's best for them and believe it or not, its not always KW.

We are a resource to help the community and we sell more than just KW. Feel free to email me for suspension advice, many others have.

Billy

 

[CL65 Captain]

Ok, you guys have convinced me that Teins are not for me! If I had 2000 I just had to spend it sounds like the V3s are the coil over that would work best for me - cause I could tune them down to Mercedes ride quality. I have had my share of German cars and I like the suspension generally. Bimmers and Porsches all ride fine although Bimmers unless M cars probably could use some further dampning and anti roll stuff. My Porsches all had fine dampers and spring rates to me in stock form. So that'll give you a little idea of what I enjoy.

Would anyone car to expound on the idea of Swift springs on stock 05 dampers. I am leaning towards that. What are the Swift spring rates? Or are they custom? It seems like from the information Billy has provided about spring rates that a stock set up for a 91 is the softest of all the NSX models - right. So how do you pair springs and damper generally? Am I going to have a good ride say matching a Swift spring to and 05 stock shock? I am guessing since there is nothing shown here about Swift spring rates that they are firmer than the stock 05 springs by how much is what I'm curious about?

Thanks for all your input guys. I am really getting a crash course on shocks and springs and track stuff . I think I'm finally finding the guys that really know these cars from a different perspective. Since I'm going to keep this car I may as well get it like I'd like to have it. You know I've always wanted a car that I could play around with - now that I have a little money - maybe I can really have some fun! I'm all ears guys! :smile:

I don't know how much tracking I'll do but I will do some. I know what you're thinking - once I start I'll find out how much fun it is and then I'll probably wish I had gone on and done the V3s. What do you guys think is tracking like an addiction or something?

I'm running JRZs ($4k) and before that Comptech Pros. I have ridden and driven Rays05's NSX with OEM dampers and Dali springs at Mid Ohio and Putnam Park - lower the car an inch and the springs are progressive. If I had to do it all over again this is what I would do. The ride is OEM+ because of the progressive rate, they lower the car just the right amount and they are "good enough" on the track. People go WAY overboard, myself included, modding for the track. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't have gone down this road. I think it's much easier to get caught up in modding the car than improving the driver.

 

[tbromley]

Billy I understand what you're saying. It's more a response to another post to this thread. I hope you will look at what I've asked and respond to my email I sent you personally. I'm really trying to decide if I need to go to the Dali or just go to the Swift. I'd like to know more about the spring rates of each before I go out and plunk down some more bucks.

CL 65 I appreciate what you're saying and it speaks directly to what I was asking. It's pretty impressive that you have spent 4k and could have spent a whole lot less. Sounds like Dali springs are somewhere around 400 bucks. I believe the Swifts are too. I can relate. I just want to be sure by looking at the spring rates of each and how they compare to the OEM 05s I have to determine which I think would be best for me.

If I had all the money in the world I'd just get V3s - I don't unfortunately. So I could sure use the cost savings of merely paring a lowering spring to my 05 dampers - that would be ideal. I want to make sure which one. Have you riden on Swifts?

Has anyone ridden on Swifts and the Dali lowering springs with stock dampers? I sure would like to hear about that.

Where is Honcho today??? I wrote him a PM as well as Billy. Guys I can't thank you all enough for all this great advice. I'm enjoying hearing all these different opinions a great deal. Thanks you guys.

 

[FXMDBilly]

I agree with Captain Morgan, and CL65 Captain.

INVEST in youself as a driver. The Swift springs are also $3-400 I think which isn't huge and you can always go to coilovers later. The lowering spring option will lower your car slightly, improve the look, and slightly raise the spring rate - which your 05 shocks will be more than fine to handle. I'd agree to go this less expensive route first and then see if you like tracking your car or are ready to "step up" to coilovers.

I'm out and about today (from LV to Phoenix) to pick up our racecar but once I find out what the Swift rates are, I can give a more insightful recommendation between them and Dali.

Save the money, INVEST in yourself and a good set of tires like Dunlop Z1 StarSpecs and have fun!

Billy

 

[tbromley]

I agree with Captain Morgan, and CL65 Captain.

INVEST in youself as a driver. The Swift springs are also $3-400 I think which isn't huge and you can always go to coilovers later. The lowering spring option will lower your car slightly, improve the look, and slightly raise the spring rate - which your 05 shocks will be more than fine to handle. I'd agree to go this less expensive route first and then see if you like tracking your car or are ready to "step up" to coilovers.

I'm out and about today (from LV to Phoenix) to pick up our racecar but once I find out what the Swift rates are, I can give a more insightful recommendation between them and Dali.

Save the money, INVEST in yourself and a good set of tires like Dunlop Z1 StarSpecs and have fun!

Billy

Thanks Billy, really appreciate this input. I will await "further instructions" on spring rates. You are a mighty big help. I appreciate this a lot. I agree on the investing in myself as a driver first! This advice is not waisted on me - thanks again.

 

[CL65 Captain]

Dali doesn't carry his springs anymore, he has a few others FS on the website.

Swift Mach Sport Springs (Dali's website)....

20mmF & -15mmR, great for those difficult driveways!
Spring rates: 218lb-in front / 258lb-in rear.

 

[Mac Attack]

Billy, Good points about TUV - that may be true.

I also understand that some may try to justify their purchases after-the-fact by building them up when they're really not that great. I'm sure some folks out there think that of me and the KSports. For the cost I paid, I could have gotten KW's for a little more, but they weren't out yet.

We are all trying to help each other out and at no time have I ever said KSports were the best out there. I've always said we have our unique preferences, tastes, desires to be different, and budget. Aftermarket companies depend on that to thrive and provide products to any demand we have.

I do feel the need, however, to defend certain peoples unsubstantiated claims about products being inferior due to their lack of knowledge (or just plain ignorance) on the subject and not giving companies the opportunity to advance and improve.

My motoring past has afforded me opportunities to race/drive on some nice stuff (most expensive vehicle driven was as a teen at the Nordschleife Nürburgring years ago in Michelins' EB110 test car). However, now that I'm older, have a family, and work as a lowly engineer, I try to make the best informed decisions and am leery of "hype" and "advertising."



So, after all that and the recommendations above, here's what I suggest:

1) Since your car is currently jacked up in the air with '05 OEM dampeners/springs, I would lower it with just some progressive springs that initially have the same spring rate as '05 OEM, and then end up with maybe double the stiffness. Eibach's or the stiffer Dali's would be ideal and are $300 or less:
http://www.daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=296

Would a 1.25" drop bring you back to normal height?

2) Enjoy at the track and just spend money on instruction, tires, and brake pads. If you find that you have too much side-to-side body roll, change sway bars.


If you do this, don't remove the compliance from your suspension as you've alluded to earlier. Short gears would be fun though:smile:

Good luck!

Dave

 

[tbromley]

Dali doesn't carry his springs anymore, he has a few others FS on the website.

Swift Mach Sport Springs (Dali's website)....

20mmF & -15mmR, great for those difficult driveways!
Spring rates: 218lb-in front / 258lb-in rear.

Captain, how can I thank you for doing research on spring rates - mighty nice. Looks like the Swifts are just a tad bit firmer than stock spring rates but they lower car probably just the right amount for me with a slight rake. As in .8" front and .6" rear, from what I understand from Billy on the height issue.

What has been troubling me is from what point is this drop measured? I mean since I put the 05 springs on my car - it's gotten higher??? The car originally is set at 5 1/2" above the pavement to the lower valence lip - now it's about 6 1/2". But that doesn't automatically mean that the Swifts will lower it from the 6 1/2" spot - it may mean it would lower it from the stock point of 5 1/2" - right? So thats why I am leaning very much to the Swifts instead of the Dalis which go to 1.25". Don't need that much lowering and I would also think that the spring rates would increase relatively as well. Does this make sense?

Dave read this above and comment. So that I believe we're all working off the same page. I had Eibach "progressive" springs and I hated them. They were way too stiff and "progressive" - HAH! I didn't get that and they lowered my car too much. I don't think the car will sit up on damper height. In other words the car sits on the springs not the dampers - so the car will sit down to whatever the spring allows. That point is not marked from where the 05 springs left me but from where the car actually should sit originally - make sense. So a Swift spring that lowers my car .8" in the front and .6" in the back is not going to take me down from the "lofty" height of the 05s but from where my car is supposed to sit on the original springs from the factory in other words at the 5 1/2" range not the new 05 height of 6 1/2" or whatever it is. Right - so I don't need 1.25" of lowering like the Eibachs gave me or the Dalis would - I don't want it to drop that much from "stock" original height or I'll be scrapping all over and I figure the more the drop the stiffer the spring rate. Can't stand that, so I need to be real careful here so I don't make another mistake.