Targa or Convertible timetable for launch

[dshinke21]

You seem like a nice fella, but I'm afraid you are missing some points here.

2000 sold in 2 years is bad. Acura sold nearly double that number in the first year of the Gen1 NSX. Dealers should have a 2 year waiting list to buy the new NSX....they don't. Here is a question...if Acura originally produced 2 variants of the NSX, one that was hybrid and one that was non-hybrid. Which one do you think would sell the most right now? I would bet you a steak dinner that the sales of the non-hybrid would eclipse the hybrid. Sure manufacturers may feel that the hybrid direction is the way to go. Good for them. But the buyers, especially in this segment, aren't interested. Also many (not all) of the people who like hybrids aren't exactly car people.

The NSX is truly the most misunderstood car on the road today. As much as I would love to help everyone understand what this car is about and what it can do, some will simply refuse to open their mind. The 1991 NSX was already made once and if you want that car then they are available for you to purchase. The 2017 NSX is truly a phenomenal car, a technological and manufacturing marvel.

There are many things that were handled poorly for the new NSX. It was delayed too long, it was an underwhelming release, the dealer support was not there, etc. But all of these things do not mean the NSX or hybrid supercars are a failure and should be abandoned at all cost to continue pumping out cars that have already been made.

No matter how good you make an ICE vehicle, there is always room for growth by adding hybrid components. They are naturally good at everything ICE engines are bad at. They can compliment each other very well and take performance to the next level. See the Porsche 919 Evo for proof of that. If anything the most justifiable complaint is that they added some weight with the hybrid system while being conservative on the power it outputs.


I hope Acura continues to develop this platform as at it's core it is truly unique and very special. I believe that electrification of vehicles is coming sooner than anyone expects and I hope they continue to explore ways that they can make the driving experience of those vehicles enjoyable. This car has a lot of room to grow and I hope it is given the chance to do so.

In the meantime I'm going to enjoy it the way it is. This car opened my eyes to the possibilities of a hybrid supercar and I get excited thinking about where this technology can go.

 

[Gondo89]

There are many things that were handled poorly for the new NSX. It was delayed too long, it was an underwhelming release, the dealer support was not there, etc. But all of these things do not mean the NSX or hybrid supercars are a failure and should be abandoned at all cost to continue pumping out cars that have already been made

From a business perspective, NSX 2.0 is a failure. No way they approved this development program with the business target of selling 5 units per month. And if Ted Klaus' performance bonus is in any way tied to the sales of his project,
his bonus for last quarter was zero. Maybe even negative. Meaning he might actually owe Honda money.

 

[vf2ss]

Change front fascia expected but not the new Acura front end(just a lower drag design).

Mogami, if they're not taking their cues from the Precision Concept, can you say if the new lower drag design is being modeled after something else they've been working on? (like maybe the Honda Vision GT Concept?)

 

[Mogami]

Mogami, if they're not taking their cues from the Precision Concept, can you say if the new lower drag design is being modeled after something else they've been working on? (like maybe the Honda Vision GT Concept?)

From Honda patent pictures, I would just say the front openings will be smaller with no mesh(mesh is so draggy).

 

[vf2ss]

From Honda patent pictures, I would just say the front openings will be smaller with no mesh(mesh is so draggy).

Does this mean that the front design will be retaining the chrome beak then?

 

[fastaussie]

From a business perspective, NSX 2.0 is a failure. No way they approved this development program with the business target of selling 5 units per month.

it is entertaining to read one excuse after another, after another, after 400 others. and yet the simple fact of the matter is still ignored. this car is not selling, and it's not about to start
selling. and as much as current owners are hoping this will lead to a very limited number of NSX's in the world, and inherently high market value one day, i don't see that happening either.

this car is absolutely a failure, that cannot be argued. people will just have to get over it...

 

[Mogami]

Honda just broke a teaser 30 second ad showing a NYC bridge with the word.... N_WTYP_!
July 19

 

[gaymondleerpv]

it is entertaining to read one excuse after another, after another, after 400 others. and yet the simple fact of the matter is still ignored. this car is not selling, and it's not about to start
selling. and as much as current owners are hoping this will lead to a very limited number of NSX's in the world, and inherently high market value one day, i don't see that happening either.

this car is absolutely a failure, that cannot be argued. people will just have to get over it...

Damn, you are relentless. Ok, it's a failure, I'm glad it was because I would never have purchased the car at reg price (yes I can afford to but I cant stand taking the depreciation hit) and have never enjoyed a car as much as I do this one. It's made me rethink about what I want to buy (mac 650s/ferrari 458) and what I want to keep (good bye soon Boxster Spyder and Gallardo Spyder, MKIV TT supra left about 1.5 weeks ago) as I realize I won't be driving whatever else I end up getting. Granted I'm comparing a newer car vs old ones and as far as value goes, up/down doesn't make a difference if I'm not getting rid of it anytime soon. Before I pulled the trigger, I already figured out it was going to flop and while I am sad that actually became true I couldn't be any happier with my purchase. The car is just perfect for me

 

[fastaussie]

the NSX is a far better car than the ones you're getting rid of, but for me and many others not better than the ones you want to get next. but it is still a great car regardless. and if it's perfect for you, like many other owners, that's fantastic.

i was quoting someone else (and several others) when i reiterated that the NSX is a failure. that can't be debated. single digit sales numbers cannot be disputed. doesn't mean it's a shit car, because it's not. but it's most certainly a failure...

 

[NZNick]

The NSX is Honda's technical showcase - a car that leads. Sure, it hasn't set the market on fire like many hoped, but it has sold and is revered by those that have driven it, and by those that have purchased it. It's not the fastest, most powerful or coolest car - that simply isn't Honda's way - Honda's way is to be the smartest. What it has done is bring the technology of the million dollar hyper-cars to the US$150k price bracket, which will further the way for these systems to become the norm over the next 10+ years. Honda's inherent conservatism resulted in the electrical assistance being smaller than some would have liked, but I'm sure that that will be addressed as the technology evolves. Remember the Gen 1 Insight ? - way ahead of the curve. Many of Honda's offerings since then have been less than exciting, but necessary to sell units. I see the NC1 as a parallel to the ZE1, with a different agenda (obviously) ... it's influence will determine sporting car evolution for years to come, in a similar way that the NA1 did 25+ years ago...

This isn't meant to read as an epitaph, just an acknowledgement of where the NSX story is at.

 

[fastaussie]

I see the NC1 as a parallel to the ZE1, with a different agenda (obviously) ... it's influence will determine sporting car evolution for years to come, in a similar way that the NA1 did 25+ years ago...

i don't think many would agree with you.

as for determining the evolution of sportscars? i think the Brits, Italians and Germans well beat Honda to it, regardless of price. most people have no idea who Buzz Aldrin is...

 

[The King]

I think there are plenty of people that agree with NZNick. It's just that most of the naysayers have bigger mouths and too much time on their hands.

 

[Axxlrod]

I'm very much enjoying my NSX, especially since I added downpipes. I don't have rattles or wind noise issues either. Only issue I've had is the thermostat, and that was fixed in a day by the dealer.

When my lease is up in 2.5 years, I'll decide what to do. Until then, I couldn't care less about the reasons or excuses the NSX sales are in the toilet.

That is all. I'm going for a drive.

 

[fastaussie]

I think there are plenty of people that agree with NZNick. It's just that most of the naysayers have bigger mouths and too much time on their hands.

it's not about naysayers and people with big mouths. it's about 5 cars being sold each month. numbers don't lie.

the NSX wasn't the first to pioneer electric/hybrid technologies in sportscars, or cars in general. that's just a fact. to be honest, the only trend it's leading is "slowest selling Supercar on the market (in its class)." that's another fact. it is a very nice car, does many things very well. it's not slow, there's nothing particularly wrong with it. and there's every reason buyers should love it. but come on, you don't think any other manufacturers are following Honda's formula on this one do you?

the original NSX changed the way other brands in the class engineered and produced their cars. this NSX has not had that same affect.

if anything, this NSX has served as a model on how not to engineer, market and sell a Supercar...

 

[Gondo89]

it's not about naysayers and people with big mouths. it's about 5 cars being sold each month. numbers don't lie.

the NSX wasn't the first to pioneer electric/hybrid technologies in sportscars, or cars in general. that's just a fact. to be honest, the only trend it's leading is "slowest selling Supercar on the market (in its class)." that's another fact. it is a very nice car, does many things very well. it's not slow, there's nothing particularly wrong with it. and there's every reason buyers should love it. but come on, you don't think any other manufacturers are following Honda's formula on this one do you?

the original NSX changed the way other brands in the class engineered and produced their cars. this NSX has not had that same affect.

if anything, this NSX has served as a model on how not to engineer, market and sell a Supercar...

What not to do as a sports car manufacturer:
--Move production of your halo sports car from Japan or Germany or the U.K. to Ohio
--let your US Ohio branch office engineer and design your halo sports car
--appoint a guy who made your minivan-based SUV to run the whole program
--abandon the entire engineering formula for your first halo sports car success
--slap on a grille from the Power Rangers
--force a complex battery design to meet some political corporate agenda
--fail to achieve records of any type in performance metrics
--fail to achieve records of any type in power output metrics
--announce the car 17 times and release it half a decade later
--allow former family sedan builders to assemble it
--put an interior that looks rather cheap and lacks basic features
--offer limited color choices and customization options
--allow dealers to order fully optioned cars and add massive markups
--price yourself out of the market / price yourself beyond what your brand equity can sustain

 

[AustexNSX]

What not to do as a sports car manufacturer:
--Move production of your halo sports car from Japan or Germany or the U.K. to Ohio
--let your US Ohio branch office engineer and design your halo sports car
--appoint a guy who made your minivan-based SUV to run the whole program
--abandon the entire engineering formula for your first halo sports car success
--slap on a grille from the Power Rangers
--force a complex battery design to meet some political corporate agenda
--fail to achieve records of any type in performance metrics
--fail to achieve records of any type in power output metrics
--announce the car 17 times and release it half a decade later
--allow former family sedan builders to assemble it
--put an interior that looks rather cheap and lacks basic features
--offer limited color choices and customization options
--allow dealers to order fully optioned cars and add massive markups
--price yourself out of the market / price yourself beyond what your brand equity can sustain

Power Rangers Grille?

 

[vf2ss]

^ A comprehensive list that chronicles mistake after mistake in rapid fire succession. To be exhaustive I would add...

--fail to pay any readily visible homage to its predecessor
--insist that your halo front fascia match that of a lesser (non-sports car) lineup
(and on top of that...)
--adorn the front fascia of your halo with one that you're actually phasing out of your lineup

 

[fastaussie]

What not to do as a sports car manufacturer:
--Move production of your halo sports car from Japan or Germany or the U.K. to Ohio
--let your US Ohio branch office engineer and design your halo sports car
--appoint a guy who made your minivan-based SUV to run the whole program
--abandon the entire engineering formula for your first halo sports car success
--slap on a grille from the Power Rangers
--force a complex battery design to meet some political corporate agenda
--fail to achieve records of any type in performance metrics
--fail to achieve records of any type in power output metrics
--announce the car 17 times and release it half a decade later
--allow former family sedan builders to assemble it
--put an interior that looks rather cheap and lacks basic features
--offer limited color choices and customization options
--allow dealers to order fully optioned cars and add massive markups
--price yourself out of the market / price yourself beyond what your brand equity can sustain

^ A comprehensive list that chronicles mistake after mistake in rapid fire succession. To be exhaustive I would add...

--fail to pay any readily visible homage to its predecessor
--insist that your halo front fascia match that of a lesser (non-sports car) lineup
(and on top of that...)
--adorn the front fascia of your halo with one that you're actually phasing out of your lineup

yep, i'd say that about sums it right up... :redface:

 

[Bricks and Bio]

I agree with the majority of this stuff.

Project management and lack of corporate buy in were the key contributors to a project that took too long, and did not follow a clear design brief (ex. Turd thought he could do another transverse engine car and finally figured out that was a waste of time).

What is wrong with the folks building the car?

Honda went nuts with production process development and built over 150 prototype cars to overcome potential quality issues.

I believe Lexus only built around 20 LFA prototypes and the folks who built the LFA built what (perhaps sedans) prior to those?

I love this stuff about a cheap interior, there are like 3-5 plastic pieces that will likely be replaced (window switch surrounds, large door speaker covers, HVAC panel. The remainder of the interior is leather, alcantara and aluminum.

 

[Mac Attack]

A suitable New Sportscar eXperimental for today should have been an all-electric 2-person sports car that was gorgeous inside and out, nimble, high build quality, and Honda reliability.

Didn't need to be the quickest BEV or even have a 300+ mile range.... The NSX part of it would have been the following:

Driving electric vehicles aggressively doesn't provoke the same man-machine interface of traditional petrol-powered vehicles (other than in a straight line). If Honda as a mobility company could figure this out before all the others (Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc), it would put them on top again for our carbon-free future and force the supercar manufacturers to take notice like they had to 30 years ago.

The closest I can think of is the outdated Tesla roadster, and nowadays the i8. The i8 is cool, but it doesn't have that driver engagement and it's overly-complicated.

I don't know how to best do that, but in my humble opinion, that is the task Honda should have taken if they wanted to reuse the NSX badging. Heck, as demonstrated with this current NSX that has to be loosing money, they probably could have taken a hit on every vehicle in order to spec it out with a 200 HP electric motor at each wheel and a 100 kW-hr battery pack behind it all. Keep it at/under 3k lbs. Design it as targa-capable for later. Have a small micro gas turbine generator to use for emergency power only....

Oh, and I wouldn't knock Ted or the Ohio folks until you have all the details. We don't know to what extent the level of influence higher-ups had on this project. I think it's a cool car built by excellent, qualified enthusiasts/craftspeople.

 

[Jinks]

^Yes, stop shitting on America. We build things well and build things that are consumer driven. The current platform doesn’t have any consumers....NOT America’s fault. Honda Japan’s fault....

 

[vf2ss]

Not that this solves any immediate problems...but let's not forget about this submission a year ago into the EU Patent Registry (EUIPO)....a mid-engine convertible Honda was added to its database [LINK].
(all images – European Union Intellectual Property Office)

Looks like the GT Concept we got a glimpse of a several years back but with developed interior: lightweight seats, push button start, F1 steering wheel, etc.

What's also interesting is that Honda has the trademark "ZSX" over there [LINK].

casual observation: during a high speed 1.7G turn it would sure suck to get your head impaled on the corner of the top half of that buttress intake ...a problem that the current NSX and this concept would seem to both have when you design a flying buttress ...and then cut off the roof!

so imagine this car...

looking more like this car...

with no roof.

 

[blue_myriddn]

Cloth top like the Huracan is what I would expect to see.