Anybody have any inside scoop or solid imtel as to when Acura will introduce either a targa or vert version of the NSX?
Targa or Convertible timetable for launch
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I think the question they are pondering within
Honda HQ is how do we justify pumping more
Investment dollars into a car that is moving
5-6 units a month. If they can't get a scaleable
budiness model going soon, not sure we will see Targa, Covertible
Or Type R variants. Unless of course Ted Klaus has a whole new
biz plan that projects a 15X sales increase by giving him more money to
spend since his ROI record is impeccable..
Honda HQ is how do we justify pumping more
Investment dollars into a car that is moving
5-6 units a month. If they can't get a scaleable
budiness model going soon, not sure we will see Targa, Covertible
Or Type R variants. Unless of course Ted Klaus has a whole new
biz plan that projects a 15X sales increase by giving him more money to
spend since his ROI record is impeccable..
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From my chats with the NSX Specialist, the targa and/or convertible iterations are not a given.
The Ice/Hybrid elements are shoehorned into everything behind the seats.
As I have noted previously, there is not place to stow a targa top in the car. Maybe some design wizard can come up with a multi-piece targa that could fit in the trunk.
To do a convertible, you would likely have to fold the mechanism on top of the engine and that would do a number on the rear visibility.
The Ice/Hybrid elements are shoehorned into everything behind the seats.
As I have noted previously, there is not place to stow a targa top in the car. Maybe some design wizard can come up with a multi-piece targa that could fit in the trunk.
To do a convertible, you would likely have to fold the mechanism on top of the engine and that would do a number on the rear visibility.
^perhaps the targa / convertible will be like the S660:
http://www.honda.co.jp/S660/webcatalog/styling/design/
http://www.honda.co.jp/S660/webcatalog/styling/design/
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As Gondo89 mentioned, due to the lackluster sales, I can't imagine that they would release any variant that entails alteration of the body (targa or convertible). Sadly, at the rate the car is selling, I doubt it will be around much longer which is truly sad.
I'm leaning towards the car not being in production for more than five years. This can lead to one of two scenarios. The car will lose a ton of value, very quickly and never recoup it's image. Or the rarity of it will help to stabilize values and even go up a little, but not close to MSRP. Having an open top configuration won't add any value IMHO.
You bring up an interesting angle--how long will Honda keep it in
production? If they release a de-contented version without AWD, no hybrid system,
upped the power to 650HP at the minimum, and priced it at $99K, I could see them maintain
production if it sells at a healthy clip comparable to other $100-$200K cars that it currently competes with,
meaning at the minimum selling 50 units per month. But I can't see them continuing to manufacturer
the current hybrid super handler much longer, let alone another 3.5 years....
Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, Honda/Acura never really responds to consumers but does respond to Consumer Reports. Although, I truly believe your thoughts are correct regarding a non-hybridized/de-contented version, I doubt it will happen cause Acura simply won't do it. Recall how long it took them to ditch the hideous beak that plagued their other cars. The vehicles endured that ghastly schnoz until something internal changed yielding a more palatable appearance. DocL sadly maybe be spot on. Acura will likely simply bump the power up slightly on a MMC and say "enough". As we saw in the prior month that had single digit sales, the company came up some BS excuse regarding ordering process (or something of that nature). Similarly, they will ultimately proclaim that "there is no market for super cars" and end production. Thus, those who wanted a truly rare vehicle will have their dream come true. Sadly when time for maintenance and repair come, I doubt they will be on the band wagon long.
They are working on upgrades for the MY19 and 20.
MY19 will get a new exterior color and a new interior color.
Change front fascia expected but not the new Acura front end(just a lower drag design).
Expect a performance gain too(do not know if it will ready for 19 but should).
Expect something special in 2020(that is a big year for Honda's plans to lead up to the Olympics)
Using all the World's eyes to highlight their tech.(Street Legal F1 Tech?)
TypeR?
MY19 will get a new exterior color and a new interior color.
Change front fascia expected but not the new Acura front end(just a lower drag design).
Expect a performance gain too(do not know if it will ready for 19 but should).
Expect something special in 2020(that is a big year for Honda's plans to lead up to the Olympics)
Using all the World's eyes to highlight their tech.(Street Legal F1 Tech?)
TypeR?
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What are the worldwide sales numbers - all I have seen on here are the US / North America numbers - interesting to see if it is selling any better in other markets? (i somehow doubt it...)
All this talk of taking the hybrid system out is not what makes it an NSX. If you want that sort of car, buy a Corvette / insert other car brand here.
All this talk of taking the hybrid system out is not what makes it an NSX. If you want that sort of car, buy a Corvette / insert other car brand here.
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They are working on upgrades for the MY19 and 20.
MY19 will get a new exterior color and a new interior color.
Change front fascia expected but not the new Acura front end(just a lower drag design).
Expect a performance gain too(do not know if it will ready for 19 but should).
Expect something special in 2020(that is a big year for Honda's plans to lead up to the Olympics)
Using all the World's eyes to highlight their tech.(Street Legal F1 Tech?)
TypeR?
Do you have direct info from the NSX team or this just a guess?
I don't have international sales numbers but the serial numbers and the final numbers in VINs give information about production. I found these two US market cars (NSX, model year 2018) offered for sale whose ads have pics of the serial number plate by the engine:
VIN 19UNC1B07JY000002 has serial # 01700
VIN 19UNC1B06JY000055 has serial # 01878
Serial numbers 01700 through 01878 represent 179 cars. Of those, 54 were manufactured for the US market, leaving 125 for other markets.
NSX sales
Only selling ok in NA and UK markets(Honda Fans).
China... only 1-2 sales a month(not special enough for the Chinese buyer to over look it being Japanese)
Aus... too expensive
Middle East... not special enough and too tame power wise
Japan... not special enough for the buyers in the market for a supercar(likes GTR over it because it has 4 seats and a trunk)
If this is true this is very promising news!
fastaussie
Suspended
so moving 5 or 6 cars a month in the U.S. are the biggest sales numbers for the world? what's makes you think Honda will be piling more money on to a sinking ship?
Same reason they are piling money into F1 even tho being the laughing stock the past three years.
Also it isn't a sinking ship!
Just got burnt by not knowing the supercar business(goes 100% against their company culture) and by caving in to their dealers last year(letting them order them to put on the lot).Letting the dealers do that destroyed the sales this year(who will buy a NSX now at list price after everybody got theirs last year from $30-60k off). That sales problem will not be fixed until the NSX gets it upgrades(better interior and 50-70 hp boost ).Expect the ICE to get about 50 more Hp and maybe 20 more e-power, also maybe the TMU powering the front wheels beyond 120 mph(that is it's major problem at the moment....above 120 mph......500hp ICE is too weak and no more e-power).
Even if they add 70 HP total, they would be at 643 HP. I don't see this as materially changing
their sales situation. If they do that, plus reset the starting price to $110K and remove the battery
shut-off at 120MPH and make it fully unrestricted, they may be able to get more interest going in the
platform. So, let's say they triple sales from 5-6 units per month to 18-19...it's still not a sustainable
business model. All of their primary competitors are doing 50-100 units per month...and with these upgrades,
will NSX 2.0 generate some dominant performance metrics versus its principal competitors? Right now it doesn't lead
in any single metric: 0-60, 1/4 mile, track, top speed, etc...if that doesn't change and they aren't winning
the HP Wars and their pricing is not in line with market realities...Then what will be the impetus to change
buyers' behavior ?
Audi R8 sales are only high because Audi is giving it away with crazy leases(money losing deal for VAG).
If Acura had a fair lease on the NSX.The NSX would steel about 50-60% of the R8 monthly sales(about 40-50).
So people keep asking if Honda will keep making the NSX, just look at the R8 to answer that question(it is a money loser in the NA Market for Audi because of the subsidized leases).
But it looks like Audi can't keep subsidizing the R8 because of the Deiselgate. There will not be a next R8, only Lambo version(they make good money on them).
So no new R8 means no more comp for the NSX market spot(MR price wise).
Low volume halo models are not planned/designed to make money for the company(Honda is about coming even).For Ferrari/Lambo/Porsche it is but look at what they cost.
If Acura had a fair lease on the NSX.The NSX would steel about 50-60% of the R8 monthly sales(about 40-50).
So people keep asking if Honda will keep making the NSX, just look at the R8 to answer that question(it is a money loser in the NA Market for Audi because of the subsidized leases).
But it looks like Audi can't keep subsidizing the R8 because of the Deiselgate. There will not be a next R8, only Lambo version(they make good money on them).
So no new R8 means no more comp for the NSX market spot(MR price wise).
Low volume halo models are not planned/designed to make money for the company(Honda is about coming even).For Ferrari/Lambo/Porsche it is but look at what they cost.
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Hmmm...very interesting.
Supercar business really is diametrically opposed to their culture, but that's no excuse...if they wanna play the game they need to gear up. But clearly your point that sales can not and will not be fixed unless they are proactive and do something is definitely warranted vs. just leaving things as is and hoping for it to magically correct itself.
50 ICE, 20 e-power, updated front fascia will all really help!!!...but you didn't mention a price re-evaluation given the rather sizable hole they've dug themselves into? Any thoughts?
--updated--
What I mean by sizable hole is specifically within the supercar marketplace, there are many who genuinely don't believe that with their current brand presence (MDX-Mommy-Mobile-Manufacturer), that the Acura brand is really competent enough to support a $185-195K price point no matter how good the car is (sadly) since they really don't know how to play this game yet (lack of options/customization, meh-so-so leases, customer pampering, etc.). Given that every brand has its price cap limit, looking back at sales one would conclude that their brand's price cap was way over exceeded.
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they only sold 6 in June. come on. this car failed
Food for Thought!
Red Bull and Honda are joining forces in 2019(already working together).They already are tied to each other in other forms of racing.
Also RB and AM are working on 5 future sports cars(only 2 are green lighted for production at the moment.....Valkyrie and Valkyrie JR)
Will Honda join this venture? I would put my money on it!
Cosworth casts the NSX V6 engine already(perfect engine for the Valkyrie JR....488 comp).Will the new Cosworth V12 have Honda on the valve cover????
RB designs them,Honda power-trains and AM sells them.
Mogami, Interesting commentary but the changes you stated that "might" be coming are far too little. As others mentioned, a slight bump in power and added color scheme will add little incentive to potential buyers. Selling single digit volumes during the summer months is abysmal at best. Maybe this is the way the goof-balls in marketing will test the waters and determine when to end the project. If so, then DocL is correct, the car will cease to exist in a few years. Also I'd like to point out one remarkably interesting comment you made in an earlier post... "....above 120 mph......500hp ICE is too weak and no more e-power" . Really?!?! The problem here is weight! Removing the boat anchor of a hybrid component(s) would easily resolve the weight issue and 500HP would likely be adequate. Recall that the original NSX, S2000 delivered a magical driving experience without massive HP numbers. When I drive mine, the magic still persists. Now your telling me that Acura is going to jump into the HP race because they created a bloated "green" machine to satisfy an agenda and they need more power to drag along all that "green" hardware. If the R8 exists from the marketplace, I'm not sure it will result in a flood of buyers to the NSX. My guess is that they will migrate to the upcoming mid-engine Corvette. So this entire NSX fiasco demonstrates Acura apparent disconnect with the consumers in this marketplace.
Yes, the magical comment is true. I felt Honda sorcery
Come alive every time I drove my 2000 NSX and 2001 ITR.
They felt super light and sounded
symphonic from an aural sensation standpoint. At 5800 RPM both cars would go into full on combat mode.
Even the people who have never
owned or driven the original NA1-2 NSX are saying drop a lot of weight, drop the batteries,
up the power, make it tuneable and drop the price. Just reduce it to engine and tranny - human
and machine--you know, like an NSX. Hell I'd buy one if they added a VTEC head and titantium rods and made a GT3 Metzger-like
naturally aspirated terror. Put the HSC front end on it and I'll sign the order now. There's a reason NA1-2 prices are soaring while NC1s are collecting dust...
fastaussie
Suspended
you can make all the excuses you want mate, but the Acura NSX ship is sitting on the ocean floor. 5 or 6 cars a month in your biggest market is a catastrophic failure. $60k off MSRP is not a Supercar sales success.
B&B said it in the other thread, "Where are all the production deliveries" and he always seems to have a decent inside scoop:
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