Speed Trial USA @ Buttonwillow FEB 7/8

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Speed Trial USA @ Buttonwillow FEB 7/8

Jimbox said:
here is the update as of now:

as of feb 4th:

Jimmy C. (advanced)
Ken K. (advanced)
Garry d. (beginner)
David L. (beginner)
Eugene V. (intermediate)
Albert L. (beginner)
Simon L. (beginner)
Mark S. (intermediate)
Kenji M. (advanced)
Chris W. (beginner)
Si T. (intermediate)
Gregory S. (intermediate)
Joe A. (?)
 
NSX-Ster said:
I'm Auto-crossing at Hollywood Park on Sat. and then driving up to Buttonwillow. If you guys caravan up Sat. night let me know what time your leaving and I'll try to join in.

Mark,

We've decided to drive up on Sunday morning. See you at the track.
 
I am going to XS engineering for tech inspection this afternoon. When I was talking to Chris there, he told me that there were a couple of NSXes (1 black, 1 white) got tech inspection earlier this week. Anybody here?

Yeah, my car has never been sleeping outside since 98. I was very fortunate to find a Prime member to put us up during NSXPO2003. It is hard to sleep when you know she is sitting in a hotel parking lot with no security.
 
I am going to XS engineering for tech inspection this afternoon. When I was talking to Chris there, he told me that there were a couple of NSXes (1 black, 1 white) got tech inspection earlier this week. Anybody here?

The black nsx is mine. I am planning to attend if two of my buddies can make it with me.....However I haven't heard back from them and I'll know for sure tomorrow. I am really interested in going but would really like the company, as I am a beginner. Had my car inspected at XS on wednesday. In any case I hope you guys all have fun out there!

Sam
 
Last time I checked, the beginner group was full. May be you can get on their waiting list. Today is the last day for registration. It would be fun to caravan up with us. So far we have SilverOne, Taj and I. A couple of us live in your neighborhood.

Come to the Thursday dinner at South Coast Acura. You'll meet people there so that you don't have to wait for your buddies to signup. We are a friendly bunch. No fist fights in parking lots arguing who has more HP.;)
 
Thanks for the invite. The way its looking, I don't think my buddies will be able to make due to some personal issues so I'm hoping I can attend the next speedtrial event. I will definitely try to make it to the thursday meet at southcoast. Have fun at the track!

Sam
 
CDub said:
Last time I checked, the beginner group was full. May be you can get on their waiting list. Today is the last day for registration.
:mad: I'm bummed - wanted to run BW. It doesn't look like I can get in now that Sunday is filled up :mad:
 
ss_md said:
:mad: I'm bummed - wanted to run BW. It doesn't look like I can get in now that Sunday is filled up :mad:

ss_md,
I will ask tommy and see, if he can squeeze you in with our run group? k...
intermediate) or (beginner)
Jim
 
Jimbox said:
ss_md,
I just got off the phone with tommy. sorry, the only space are open left is the advanced.
jim:(
Thanks for trying :)
 
Comments about SpeedTrial event

Hi Folks,

It was nice to meet you all in person at the event today, and hopefully you were able to learn something while I rode with you on your car or while you were riding on mine at the track.

Now for the hard part, normally I don't usually flame organizations or groups, but I'll be posting the honest truth here..

After attending the 2 day event that SpeedTrial (West) held down at BW, all I can say is that all of you guys are better off running with a different group, you will learn more and will get more tracktime with other groups that are tailored more for Drivers Education who have dedicated instructors for beginners IE 1 instructor per beginner driver!!!!, and optional instruction for intermediates and advanced drivers.

I've run with about 8 different organizations, and I used to think that NASA HPDE's were the worst of the bunch, but now I know that it can get much, much, worse..

I don't ever recall being in an event where people spun over 12+ times driving towards the front straight in a single day (Saturday) , and losing control and spinning inwards toward the wall (fortunately no-one hit the wall), that's unheard of. BTW: 6 cars spun or had offs on the last session of the intermediate group today :( (Sunday). Normally the entire group would be black flagged and told to sit out the session so that they can calm down and cool off, and get their act straight.

And I've never heard of an organization that does mock rolling race starts with newbies with over 25 cars on the track, that's really boneheaded considering that a lot of car to car contact can happen while folks try to move upfield.

Check the following website for a list of other organizers, there are others that are not listed as well:

http://www.opentracking.com/track_events.htm

Many of these event organizers will charge about 50% to 100% more but you will get 2x to 3x the tracktime. (I only had about 1:40 minutes worth of tracktime in 2 days!!, argh.. :( ) That is in comparison to the 3 hours of tracktime that I had on Friday at Laguna Seca on a single day, with a few off track incidents, and *0* spins. And those guys were more consistent and faster than the folks at SpeedTrial. (I guess the walls at Laguna Seca makes people take things seriously..)

It's a lot better to run with organizations that limits the number of cars to somewhere between 50 to 75 cars total per track event, things go a lot smoother and having dedicated instruction will be very beneficial for all of you. Not sticking to the schedule is a good indication of a poorly run organization, it's easy to make the schedule look good on paper but reality is rarely the same thing. If organizers are wishy washy about instructors, then *don't* run with that organization, all the better ones usually have about 15-20 instructors, yes, that's about 1 per student.

I really hate having to post this here, but it looks like many of you are really excited about tracking your NSX's at the track, all I can say is that you will benefit a lot more and be placed at substantially *less* risk running with other organizations whose number 1 focus is actually the safety of those who are involved in the events.

Ken

BTW: I've never seen such a lethargic and unresponsive set of corner workers in any event. Many times yesterday and today there would be an off or spin, and the corner worker that was working the booth before the incident would not react quickly and put out the yellow flag, what's up with that!!! , I don't ever recall seeing the debris flag, passing flags being shown either, those guys are your eyes and ears out there looking out for you, the driver!!!!
 
Ken's Comments

Well put Ken.
First, I'd like to thank Ken for the ride and pointers and for hooking me up with Christian for instruction. Also, thanks to Kenji for the ride alongs and pointers. The NSX's had a strong showing Sunday, I believe there were 10. The few times that I was not in traffic, I had a blast! The rest of the time, not much fun at all
Mirroring Ken's comments:
-Too many cars
-Not enough qualified instructors
-Poorly organized
-Did not stay on schedule
-No control of the "RACING" attitude on the track(Did not black flag cars for rules violations)
-Poor corner working

Kenji, Ken, Gene and the other NSX's. I hope we all see eachother at a safer, better run event in the near future.

Ken-thanks for posting the link for other events!
 
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Ken,

I missed the chance of getting a ride from you when I walked away from the hot pit area. I hope we can do that next time.

Regarding SpeedtrialUSA, my biggest concern being a newbie is the lack of instructors, like I've mentioned in the Track forum. I managed to grab an instructor to drive my car and ride in my car for an entire session. I wanted to get him back on the last session for him to give me an evaluation, but I couldn't find him.

Regarding track time, I think it was just right for me. I was quite tired after the last session.

The scheduling delay was something that they could also improve.

The rolling start made me kind of uneasy, but I stayed on my line and accelerated as normal.

I let a couple of EVOs passed me after the esses, heading towards the front straight, and the yellow one spun at the Sunset turn. He ended up settling in the middle of the track facing the wrong direction. That was a close call.

Corner workers? What corner workers? I hardly see them except the one at the front straight. I should pay more attention to them instead of fixing my eyes on the road. I'm still in the learning mode.

All-in-all, I had a great experience learning this technical track. I'd have to admit that from the Cotton Corner to the Bus Stop, it is still a blur to me. I got lost in that area when there is no cars in front of me to show me where the turns are going.
 
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They should have more instructors, especially for the "newbies". Nothing helps builds your skills and confidence, than having an instructor next to you during your sessions.
Is it hard getting instructors to pay and teach?
 
I want to thank Ken for the ride and I think most of my learning took place during those 4 laps in your car! Great meeting you Kenji (hopefully you get your car issue sorted out soon), and seeing other NSXer's again. The ride along in Ken's car gave me a whole new understanding of what driving on the track meant and what the car is supposed to feel like handling those corners.

The very first morning session when we were learning the lines, the speed reached 60+ at short spurts, it was a bit uneasy being that it was my first time on this track. I think I was fortunate and didn't spin only because I just had a test lap ride with one of the instructors prior to the session, and plus my previous experience at another track. I would not have felt comfortable at all if other wise.

It was still a very good experience for me despite the issues mentioned above. The personal instructor for newbies will definitely play a big role in my decisions of attending future events. As I don't feel there is much learning if I was driving by myself on the track following behind bunch of other cars.
 
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Since I was so tired after driving 360 fwy miles and around 80 miles of track driving, I didn't clean up the car yesterday.

After work today, I removed the bra and the blue tapes and noticed that it has a lot of dirt stuck underneath the bra. I can't imagine the chips that I'll get if I didn't have the bra and tape on.

I hope I have time to clean up the car before the Thursday dinner. If not, you'll see my car in its dirtiest state.
 
SilverOne said:
I want to thank Ken for the ride and I think most of my learning took place during those 4 laps in your car! Great meeting you Kenji (hopefully you get your car issue sorted out soon), and seeing other NSXer's again. The ride along in Ken's car gave me a whole new understanding of what driving on the track meant and what the car is supposed to feel like handling those corners.

The very first morning session when we were learning the lines, the speed reached 60+ at short spurts, it was a bit uneasy being that it was my first time on this track. I think I was fortunate and didn't spin only because I just had a test lap ride with one of the instructors prior to the session, and plus my previous experience at another track. I would not have felt comfortable at all if other wise.

It was still a very good experience for me despite the issues mentioned above. The personal instructor for newbies will definitely play a big role in my decisions of attending future events. As I don't feel there is much learning if I was driving by myself on the track following behind bunch of other cars.


hi everyone,
it's me Jimbox. i feel real bad that many of you especially ken did not enjoy the weekend.

i had relay the mentioned complaints to SpeedTrial:

1. schedule was delayed on purpose due to track ambulance does not come in till 9am...hot track cannot begin until they arrive.

2. chief instructor and the rest of the instructors where either SCCA or NASA drivers/instructors. there teaching techniques are for a reason. also there was no guarantee of a one on one instruction.

3. overbooking of the track is a tough one. for a 3mile track, i and along with many other experienced track guys felt it was ok. eye of the beholder i persume.

4. spin-offs....yeah once your a bozo always a bozo.

5. yeah true, if u want more track time, go some other event...i agree...if u dont mind the extra cost.

i have been going to speedtrial for many years and i've had my share of rough times, but for the most part i have had safe fun so far. and for those of you unsatisfied, i appologize.
peace out,
jimbox
 
Jimbox said:
hi everyone,
it's me Jimbox. i feel real bad that many of you especially ken did not enjoy the weekend.

i had relay the mentioned complaints to SpeedTrial:

1. schedule was delayed on purpose due to track ambulance does not come in till 9am...hot track cannot begin until they arrive.

2. chief instructor and the rest of the instructors where either SCCA or NASA drivers/instructors. there teaching techniques are for a reason. also there was no guarantee of a one on one instruction.

3. overbooking of the track is a tough one. for a 3mile track, i and along with many other experienced track guys felt it was ok. eye of the beholder i persume.

4. spin-offs....yeah once your a bozo always a bozo.

5. yeah true, if u want more track time, go some other event...i agree...if u dont mind the extra cost.

i have been going to speedtrial for many years and i've had my share of rough times, but for the most part i have had safe fun so far. and for those of you unsatisfied, i appologize.
peace out,
jimbox

Hi Jim,

I actually had fun hanging out with all of you Southern CA NSX owners, it was nice getting to know you all.

I did not have problems with the advanced group being crowded, It was actually the one that was least crowded and the one that was actually the safest given that *most* drivers had a clue.

I say *most* because there were a couple of drivers who clearly did not belong in the advanced group at all who were allowed to run in the Advanced group on Sunday.

There were like moving cones at the track being completely off the line and driving *way* over their heads and becoming a danger to themselves.

I recall the 911GT2 owner who drove in the intermediate group on Saturday and moved up to the advanced group on Sunday, that guy was all over the place, off-line, keeping the car unsettled and being a moving cone that we had to dodge at the track.

There was also a White STi that was loose all over the place and barely keeping the car on track because of the 4WD nature of the car. He was also a moving cone and a real pain to deal with.

Fortunately the organizers were a bit more proactive on Sunday and moved those guys down to the Intermediate group, or told the drivers to drive at their own pace and actually allow people to pass.

Another example: There was a Red 360 Modena running on Hoosier slicks on both days, he was probably 10 to 12 seconds faster than me on Sunday. I was aware of his prescense way before he even got close by to my car, and I would always let him pass in regions that would slow him the *least* because it was aparent that he was that much faster than me and he was trying to get good laptimes. At the end of the day on Sunday the driver came to look for me and brought a couple of "sodas" along to say thanks for being such a good sport and being an "aware" and "clueful" driver, he was able to get his best laptimes ever at BW that day in the last session of the day. The morale of this story is that we *all* need to cooperate in order to have a fun experience at the track, it's the responsability of the organizers and the drivers to ensure that the track event are safe and in control, and being pro-active about drivers who are driving above their means.

The screening process that SpeedTrial uses probably needs quite a bit of work prior to assigning drivers to different run groups.

Instead of looking at the situation as a driver with experience just think about it as a driver who is a newbie at the track, perhaps that will give you a different perspective.

Just imagine yourself taking the NSX as your track car for your 1st or 2nd track event, would you do so with 100% confidence that your fellow students are going to keep their car in control during a Speed Trial event?

I am just looking out for my fellow NSX owners who are interested in tracking.

I'm very glad that you are getting the folks involved in tracking their cars at the track events, but I would seriously prefer if you organized the NSX folks to attend something else besides SpeedTrial (West) that offered a bit more strict rules and instruction.

I received a PM from a NSX owner from Southern CA that *warned* about running with SpeedTrial, I was hoping that all the rumors were not true, because his experience goes back almost *2 years*, but it turned out that he was right.

Both Kenji and I attended the event knowing well the *reputation* of SpeedTrial, we went there to meet the other NSX owners and to also share a bit of our knowledge in regards to driving the NSX at BW, based on the possible lack of instruction by the folks at SpeedTrial. We just wanted our fellow NSX owners to have a fun and useful experience at the track.

Hopefully all the feedback that you have provided to the SpeedTrial folks will be beneficial to their program, and their program will improve in the future.

Like it or not, there is a level of resposability that you should feel about your fellow NSX owners and their cars when promoting a particular track event.

I'll end this here, I don't have any qualms with you Jim, so please don't take this personally.

Safe driving,

Ken

BTW: Why were you not running in the Advanced group? Kenji's NSX broke down so I did not have another NSX to chase during my sessions, had to make do chasing STi's, 240SX's, Evo's, E36M3's, etc, :(
 
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