Scary brake failure experience, any ideas why?

dablackgoku1234 · 2 January 2016

Just for documentation sakes, are we talking about part #1 or #5 ?

goldNSX · 2 January 2016

No. 1

noisuf · 2 January 2016

Thanks GoldNSX and NSXGB.

Should I replace #3 in the diagram? Or does it come with the OEM or aftermarket kits?

I've been looking at the Cardone Select and Centric new master cylinders. The Cardone comes with a bench bleeder kit and is quite well priced.

goldNSX · 3 January 2016

#3 is part of #1 . While there I would replace it.

95nsxtc · 5 January 2016

definitely replace your brake master cylinder, mine did the same thing.

However I went with the aftermarket Centric cylinder, worked flawlessy. I will say that it does change brake pedal feel. I honestly prefered the new feel of the Centric but if you're really stuck on how it is now then buy the OEM. And idk what they are now but I could buy 2.5 Centrics for the price of an OEM when i looked

fd3s_fan · 5 January 2016

95nsxtc said:
definitely replace your brake master cylinder, mine did the same thing.

However I went with the aftermarket Centric cylinder, worked flawlessy. I will say that it does change brake pedal feel. I honestly prefered the new feel of the Centric but if you're really stuck on how it is now then buy the OEM. And idk what they are now but I could buy 2.5 Centrics for the price of an OEM when i looked

How did the pedal feel change?

For the record I have had good luck with centric hydraulic products in the past (replaced clutch and brake cylinders on my miata and rx-7). No direct experience with the nsx centric products though.

95nsxtc · 5 January 2016

fd3s_fan said:
How did the pedal feel change?

For the record I have had good luck with centric hydraulic products in the past (replaced clutch and brake cylinders on my miata and rx-7). No direct experience with the nsx centric products though.

To me the oem felt old/heavy and that the pressure required was constant to the amount of force wanting to be applied to the brakes. The centric felt more gradual in the sense that in traffic it was pretty light but when driving at a decent pace, the pedal got much firmer the deeper it was buried

noisuf · 16 January 2016

I've managed to get myself a new master cylinder.

Quick question, is there a particular bleeding procedure for this master cylinder?

DocL · 16 January 2016

I just bench bleed mine before I installed it.

Kaz-kzukNA1 · 16 January 2016

Before installing the new master cyl, best to bench bleed it first if you want to save your time and brake fluid.

Because of the position of the feed holes at the piston bore, you won’t be able to push out the air easily while having the master cyl inside the car.
Also, unless you prime it first, you are going to just push and pull the air back and forth with no fluid coming out of the bleeder plug at the other end.

I use pressure bleeder but you can just push the piston with your hand (quite stiff spring force though) as long as it’s a new master cyl.
Never floor it or push with your hand to the end stop if the master cyl is of used one.
You are very likely to damage the piston seal/cup.
Another reason why I always use pressure bleeder.

If not using the pressure bleeder for bench bleeding, just use old brake pipes or something with one way valve attached so that you don’t suck the air back into the system when releasing the piston.
Or, if you don’t have one way valve, submerge the end of the pipe/tube in the brake fluid but you will need to wait for the bubbles to go all the way up before releasing the piston.

If this is your first time, best to have someone with previous experience as it’s brake system.

Good luck.

Something related to the previous posts…..

If you are thinking of going for the aftermarket brake master cyl and in fact, even for the OEM one, please double check the pushrod clearance at the brake booster using the SST or something accurate enough to copy the same setup.

It is very rare for someone to touch the pushrod clearance and since the OEM brake master cyl parts accuracy is high enough that 99% of the time, never had to adjust the clearance.
However, I did find small number of NSX requiring the pushrod adjustment so I won’t say no one has ever touched it.

We are talking about the clearance in the order of 0.1mm so please make sure to check it if you are replacing the master cyl especially if you are going for the aftermarket one.
It will not only change the brake pedal stroke feeling but also potentially dangerous especially if the pushrod is always pressing against the edge of the piston.

Kaz

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Old Guy · 16 January 2016

Kaz-kzukNA1 said:
If you are thinking of going for the aftermarket brake master cyl and in fact, even for the OEM one, please double check the pushrod clearance at the brake booster using the SST or something accurate enough to copy the same setup.

That is a nice looking master cylinder adaptor for your pressure bleeder. My adaptors consist of what look like a bunch of used jam jar screw lids with holes in the center for the pressure line!

You refer to an SSR. Is that the special Honda adjustment gauge? Is it possible to make the measurement without the Honda gauge? I have not had to do this on my NSX (yet?); but, I do have a question about the procedure. If the clearance on the pushrod is incorrect, the service manual refers to loosening the star locknut and using the adjuster on the clevis side of the booster to get the correct clearance. The service manual refers to holding the clevis while doing this adjustment. Is it realistic or possible to do this adjustment with master cylinder still in the car? My back muscles hurt just thinking about it!

Kaz-kzukNA1 · 18 January 2016

Hi, Old Guy.
My experience servicing the LHD model NSX is very limited and never adjusted the pushrod on LHD one so can't comment from my own experience.

For the RHD model, fortunately, there are plenty room from the CL pedal side so even with the steering column in front, one can access the brake booster pushrod adjuster fairly easily especially, if you can adjust the height of the car.
You need the SST and not the master cyl at the booster with the vacuum applied while making the adjustment.

Although it says SST, it’s not that special and any production cars with master cyl and booster in this type of configuration will use the similar SST on master cyl clearance inspection.

You just need to be able to create good seal behind the SST to generate vacuum pressure from the engine or the hand held vacuum tool.

Sometimes, Honda/Acura SST are manufactured by the local company and not delivered from Japan. Thus, different parts no. applied.
For this one, seemed to be the universal parts no. for all region and it's 07JAG-SD40100.
It's SD4 code so used on several other models. You may need to search the Honda parts system and not the Acura one if it doesn’t show up using the above parts no..

Kaz

noisuf · 30 January 2016

Hi Everyone, just wanted to provide an update that I installed the new master cylinder a couple of weeks back successfully! I didn't have a bench bleed aparatus (not easy to get one in Australia) so I had to go through quite a bit of brake fluid to get all the bubbles out.

I went for a test drive and thanked Honda for the small tool kit in the back as there was a little bit of leakage from the two lines and I used the spanner to tighten them a little more.

Thanks everyone for all the help, advice and support!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scary brake failure experience, any ideas why?

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