Very nice! What is the break in process going to look like?
RYU's "properly molested" NSX build thread
- Thread starter RYU
- Start date
I'm going to over-do it a bit on the break-in. Oil changes at 100, 500, 1500 miles. I want to monitor oil comsumption meticulously during this time.
Was able to driver her around the block a few times. Still early goings on the startup map. I added between 5-10% fuel in big sections and trimmed timing across the board by 3-5 degs. I probably need more fuel and probably need less timing taken out but I want to be safe for the first 100 miles of break-in. I'm using 40W Purol break-in oil.
I'm a little annoyed looking at the messy wiring I have left for myself, but I have a bunch of stuff to rewire and tidy up now that the 3.6L is in place. Namely add a IACV valve and refresh some relays. My 40amp fuel pump relay still gets WARM!
Final Build Specs:
Builder:
HQ Engineering (big thanks guys!!)
3.619 Litre C36A
ASM ITB Kit w/ Custom CF Plenum
Comptech Cam Gears
Comptech Ported Heads (reworked 37mm intake)
Suptertech valves, seats, springs, Ti retainers
Custom Webcams
Toda Timing Belt
TiDave Solid Belt Tensioner
Traum Pistons
Bryant 84mm billet stroker crank
Sleeved Block 94.5mm bore
Custom bushed stock Ti rods
Balanced Rotating Assembly
Cometic Head Gasket
New OEM Water Pump
Toda Oil Gear
New OEM oil pump
WPC Coating (Pistons, Bearings, Camshafts, Oil Gear/Housing)
ATI Super Damper
Bosch Ignition Coils
Transmission
6 Speed NSX-R 4.23 Final Drive
Wavetrac LSD
OS Giken STR2C Clutch Assembly/Flywheel
Builder:
HQ Engineering (big thanks guys!!)
3.619 Litre C36A
ASM ITB Kit w/ Custom CF Plenum
Comptech Cam Gears
Comptech Ported Heads (reworked 37mm intake)
Suptertech valves, seats, springs, Ti retainers
Custom Webcams
Toda Timing Belt
TiDave Solid Belt Tensioner
Traum Pistons
Bryant 84mm billet stroker crank
Sleeved Block 94.5mm bore
Custom bushed stock Ti rods
Balanced Rotating Assembly
Cometic Head Gasket
New OEM Water Pump
Toda Oil Gear
New OEM oil pump
WPC Coating (Pistons, Bearings, Camshafts, Oil Gear/Housing)
ATI Super Damper
Bosch Ignition Coils
Transmission
6 Speed NSX-R 4.23 Final Drive
Wavetrac LSD
OS Giken STR2C Clutch Assembly/Flywheel
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I have a few hours to tune tomorrow evening after work. Hope it all goes well.
Meanwhile [MENTION=25108]illwillem[/MENTION] made me a sick carbon cover out of the same CF waffle board used in Boeings of which i've talked about here before. I'm not sure yet how to cover the exposed edges around the plenum. He also Dry Ice Blasted the frunk and engine bay. Boy did she need it! The results are incredible. Just look at the copper strands on the ground wire. This was filled with grime before.
Meanwhile [MENTION=25108]illwillem[/MENTION] made me a sick carbon cover out of the same CF waffle board used in Boeings of which i've talked about here before. I'm not sure yet how to cover the exposed edges around the plenum. He also Dry Ice Blasted the frunk and engine bay. Boy did she need it! The results are incredible. Just look at the copper strands on the ground wire. This was filled with grime before.
Quick Update:
The NSX is now home. It drove on it's own 3.6L 6spd power for 110 miles from LA. We had some typical (or not so typical) hiccups that sometimes occur on big builds like this, but I was able to drive it home. Updates are slow going because I can only work on it perhaps a few hours each weekend.
I have a long list of to-do's.
1. 100 mile oil change and oil filter inspection review
2. 100 mile spark plug inspection. I installed colder 7's instead of the stock 8's.
3. IACV valve to be added (i'm waivering on this)
4. Readjust idle because [MENTION=33247]MotorMouth93[/MENTION] confirmed, i'm an idiot and was adjusting idle the wrong way. I may do a video on ITB setup in the future to help others...
5. Install Test Pipes. While looking at the spark plugs after 5 miles of driving.. I feel sorry for my cats so i'll remove them until it's tuned better.
6. Completely R&R the ITBs, Fuel Injectors, and all linkages. This is what's currently sprawled all across my workbench. It's a disgusting site lol
7. Tune HKS fuel/timing maps - this is the lionshare of the work coming up for me
The NSX is now home. It drove on it's own 3.6L 6spd power for 110 miles from LA. We had some typical (or not so typical) hiccups that sometimes occur on big builds like this, but I was able to drive it home. Updates are slow going because I can only work on it perhaps a few hours each weekend.
I have a long list of to-do's.
1. 100 mile oil change and oil filter inspection review
2. 100 mile spark plug inspection. I installed colder 7's instead of the stock 8's.
3. IACV valve to be added (i'm waivering on this)
4. Readjust idle because [MENTION=33247]MotorMouth93[/MENTION] confirmed, i'm an idiot and was adjusting idle the wrong way. I may do a video on ITB setup in the future to help others...
5. Install Test Pipes. While looking at the spark plugs after 5 miles of driving.. I feel sorry for my cats so i'll remove them until it's tuned better.
6. Completely R&R the ITBs, Fuel Injectors, and all linkages. This is what's currently sprawled all across my workbench. It's a disgusting site lol
7. Tune HKS fuel/timing maps - this is the lionshare of the work coming up for me
Some folks have asked on different platforms of any updates. Unfortunately, it's been slow goings. I still have only about 120 miles on the new motor. The last couple of weekends have been busy with work and life and the few hours i've spent on the NSX has been mostly troubleshooting. I did make progress this weekend. I converted to 550cc EV14 injectors from the ID1000's prior. I've also ditched the OEM fuel pressure regulator in place of a new OEM bolt-on version. Now at 40psi of rail pressure. I was hoping to avoid this route but here we are... It does seem that at idle I'm now between +/- 0.5 points on the AFR variance between banks. This is a crap ton better than the 2 points consistently leaner on one bank. Though if the lean condition was caused by injector sizing, I still don't understand why it wouldn't be erratic equally on both banks. This is what made me think I have some grounding issues perhaps in the injector harness. Anyway, I'm still seeing a bit of a lean condition under throttle on one bank but I feel it's too early to determine this until I get more tuning time logged. It's been a slow journey and i'm feeling a bit of pressure since I don't want to break-in the motor with a "bad" tune. At best, it's a rough tune on it now. I'm setting aside a few hours to street tune it this weekend. Keep in mind, with the new injectors and fuel pressure my fuel maps are all out of whack (again).
In many ways, knowing the bank to bank AFR imbalances has been a bit of TMI. I'm considering turning it off so I can just focus on the main fuel tables but which bank do I rely on? It's too hard to tell. Some excessive blow-by, cams, or other conditions could be causing the imbalance but at least it seems i've reduced it quite a bit.
Btw... I had a chance to get her into VTEC yesterday. HOLY CRAP. The VTEC lobes on these cams are totally noticeable at least in terms of noise. It's very Jekyl & Hyde. I have very very conservative timing dialed in so no idea on power outputs yet...
https://youtu.be/97LZNkgsAwk
In many ways, knowing the bank to bank AFR imbalances has been a bit of TMI. I'm considering turning it off so I can just focus on the main fuel tables but which bank do I rely on? It's too hard to tell. Some excessive blow-by, cams, or other conditions could be causing the imbalance but at least it seems i've reduced it quite a bit.
Btw... I had a chance to get her into VTEC yesterday. HOLY CRAP. The VTEC lobes on these cams are totally noticeable at least in terms of noise. It's very Jekyl & Hyde. I have very very conservative timing dialed in so no idea on power outputs yet...
https://youtu.be/97LZNkgsAwk
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Ok, Ok, Ok.... This has been the first update since the 3.6L was installed where I didn't want to pull my hair out. Swapping to 550cc injectors and lowering the fuel pressure, and thinking that was fixing my bank-to-bank imbalance ended up being a red herring. It was a bad fuel filter.
After data logging some more the imbalance was a little better but still there.. argh! What was really odd was even when I attempted to tune it out with individual cylinder fuel trim compensations it would come and go, but only at low throttle inputs. It was a bit more consistent at WOT but still moving around a bit. I went on a wild goose hunt by swapping O2 sensors, wiring, grounds, etc. The typical... throw parts at it approach. Keep in mind I had already recalibrated and rebalanced the ITBs. What did not occur to me was that I simply rebalanced them at idle. When at idle the butterflies are held open by idle screw stops not any of the linkages connecting to the throttle cable. Therefore cylinder by cylinder they could all be set to balance but as soon as that throttle cable is pulled it might pull one of the bank of ITBs just a tiny bit more open than the other bank. So... on throttle it's the bellcrank and pushrods adjustments that matter.
So the fix... As I began to give it 1% of throttle I could barely see that the rear bank was opening first. This introduces more air into the rear bank and inducing a lean condition compared to the fronts. You can BARELY see it with your naked eye but in low throttle this type of thing gets multiplied in severity as so little and turbulent airflow is introduced. I'm of the opinion, especially after talking with [MENTION=33247]MotorMouth93[/MENTION] that the high CR pistons, stroker, cams, head port, larger valves, aggrevates this as compared to the stock motor. I also did not use independent widebands on the stock motor so I wouldn't known this problem existed. Anyway, so after tinkering with the linkages and making sure that literally a hair's width (70 microns) of play did not exist between the two banks of ITB butterflies, low throttle stability has been improved greatly and the AFRs look more in-line with each other. I was finally able to focus on cleaning up the tune especially with a consistent fuel filter. Before realizing this, having this kind of hardware issue always made tuning/logging on the ECU a fool's errand and hence I had less hair than I did when I started. The 550cc injectors and lower fuel pressure does give me better resolution though so it wasn't all for naught. This weekend I hope to be implementing the Tuner Nerd knock monitor and refining the Alpha N before I touch the other compensation tables in the HKS F-Con V-Pro.
Lessons learned for sure..............................
Here are some videos... only 300 miles into the break-in so far.
3rd gear pull on moderate timing with a 7k rpm limit.
https://youtube.com/shorts/aypqyFGsnDs?feature=share
This one speaks for itself. The lightened rotating assembly is incredible.
https://youtube.com/shorts/apj9VBy4B54?feature=share
After data logging some more the imbalance was a little better but still there.. argh! What was really odd was even when I attempted to tune it out with individual cylinder fuel trim compensations it would come and go, but only at low throttle inputs. It was a bit more consistent at WOT but still moving around a bit. I went on a wild goose hunt by swapping O2 sensors, wiring, grounds, etc. The typical... throw parts at it approach. Keep in mind I had already recalibrated and rebalanced the ITBs. What did not occur to me was that I simply rebalanced them at idle. When at idle the butterflies are held open by idle screw stops not any of the linkages connecting to the throttle cable. Therefore cylinder by cylinder they could all be set to balance but as soon as that throttle cable is pulled it might pull one of the bank of ITBs just a tiny bit more open than the other bank. So... on throttle it's the bellcrank and pushrods adjustments that matter.
So the fix... As I began to give it 1% of throttle I could barely see that the rear bank was opening first. This introduces more air into the rear bank and inducing a lean condition compared to the fronts. You can BARELY see it with your naked eye but in low throttle this type of thing gets multiplied in severity as so little and turbulent airflow is introduced. I'm of the opinion, especially after talking with [MENTION=33247]MotorMouth93[/MENTION] that the high CR pistons, stroker, cams, head port, larger valves, aggrevates this as compared to the stock motor. I also did not use independent widebands on the stock motor so I wouldn't known this problem existed. Anyway, so after tinkering with the linkages and making sure that literally a hair's width (70 microns) of play did not exist between the two banks of ITB butterflies, low throttle stability has been improved greatly and the AFRs look more in-line with each other. I was finally able to focus on cleaning up the tune especially with a consistent fuel filter. Before realizing this, having this kind of hardware issue always made tuning/logging on the ECU a fool's errand and hence I had less hair than I did when I started. The 550cc injectors and lower fuel pressure does give me better resolution though so it wasn't all for naught. This weekend I hope to be implementing the Tuner Nerd knock monitor and refining the Alpha N before I touch the other compensation tables in the HKS F-Con V-Pro.
Lessons learned for sure..............................
Here are some videos... only 300 miles into the break-in so far.
3rd gear pull on moderate timing with a 7k rpm limit.
https://youtube.com/shorts/aypqyFGsnDs?feature=share
This one speaks for itself. The lightened rotating assembly is incredible.
https://youtube.com/shorts/apj9VBy4B54?feature=share
I had ITB's on another car many years ago. The adjusting of them was never ending. But when you did get them dialed in, what performance. Yes, another wideband would have pointed you in the right direction immediately. But there is no fun and learning in that. Glad you now have it fairly sorted and you can get to tuning. I want more videos!
To add... I've been humbled by calibrating the ITBs on a built, relatively high strung motor. I got away with a lot more on the stock motor I realize. Learning a ton still...
At this point, i'm just building up the break-in miles. She's running about 3 degs retarded all around the timing table as compared to where I had the stock engine timing table at. The coolant temp is about the same as stock but the "underhood" temp are definitely noticeably higher. I can't even touch the rear strut bar after a long drive, it's that hot. I think the engine retard is causing high EGTs. I don't have any EGT sensors so I can't really tell. I'm pondering putting some in. However, i'm hoping once I cross the 1000 mile mark and start dyno tuning it will balance itself out. We'll see. I have another 650 miles to go. At this point i'm just tweaking the driveability tune. She's getting pretty good. There are minor things like it's not that smooth idling as compared to stock. There are moments in tip-in throttle at very low TPS where I can tell a slight bit if hesitation - very small but still noticeable. At this point i'm not sure if that's just because it's an aggressive motor or if it's a maltune somewhere. I've tried to tune it out as best I can but there's still some remnance of it there. Not anything i'm worried about for the short term. Just my OCD kicking in. Overall, the motor is a BEAST. I'm careful commenting about it at this early stage. I'm not sure if the brisk acceleration is from the short gears or the noise, or just the drama of it all. The dyno will tell me all.
Meanwhile, i've installed a knock sensor recommended by @MotorMouth93 (Thanks John!). This knock sensor is a little interesting and has taught me how knock sensors work in general. I don't believe there is a knock sensor magic formula out there. Each unit has to be calibrated to the vehicle. This one works based on taking a baseline recording of a good known conservative WOT pull on a conservative timing table. How do you know what is a conservative table to start with? That's the problem... you really don't know. You just have to take a best guess and slowly creep up to MBT by monitor the software and looking at the spectrograph for "spikes" aka knock frequency as determined by the bore size calculator. The software does a best guess of what knock frequency to monitor based on the bore size. Still early goings and i'm learning the software. This calibration process is also specified in the HKS Knock Amp which I also have installed but that process is a heck of a lot less intuitive to me whereby I found it worth it to buy Tuner Nerd.
I also found a speed senstive reverse lockout solution for the 6spd. It seems the most common method is to wire the 6 spd's transmission's lock out solenoid to the reverse light. Something about that just seems ghetto to me. I searched for a speed dependent switch whereby at a certain speed the unit triggers a 12v signal. I believe Comptech use to make something like this in the past? It's long discontinued if they did. Lingenfelter makes a versatile configurable speed dependent switch - for what purpose, I don't know... After some internet searching I found a local ebayer selling the switchbox unit below. They use these in busses. Maybe for the automatic door close triggered by speed. John @MotorMouth93) reminded me how to wire this thing up and confirmed that I wanted the lowest frequency box which equates to the lowest speed. In this scenario 18.5hz = 4mph as per the VSS square wave signal off the bus. However, 18.5hrz is actually 15mph in JDM speak as most of the JDM VSS's have been standardized. There appears to be a rheostat on the side to adjust the frequency but i've found 15mph is pretty good. In other words, my lockout switch stays engages at any speed above 14mph. So far it's working quite well!
FYI: There are a bunch of these boxes sold online however some are of higher frequencies and some are 24volts. Don't just buy willie nillie.
Wiring:
+ is 12V
- is Ground
SIG is the VSS signal which I grabbed from the ECU harness. It's the only Yellow with Red stripe wire (on the 12 pin harness C2 position IIRC)
N.O. is Normally Open
COM is your signal source
N.C. is Normally Closed.
Your 6spd solenoid is triggered by a 12v + and - together, not polarity dependent. I wired one solenoid wire to +12V ignition trigger. The other wire to N.O. with COM to ground.
Hope that helps!
Meanwhile, i've installed a knock sensor recommended by @MotorMouth93 (Thanks John!). This knock sensor is a little interesting and has taught me how knock sensors work in general. I don't believe there is a knock sensor magic formula out there. Each unit has to be calibrated to the vehicle. This one works based on taking a baseline recording of a good known conservative WOT pull on a conservative timing table. How do you know what is a conservative table to start with? That's the problem... you really don't know. You just have to take a best guess and slowly creep up to MBT by monitor the software and looking at the spectrograph for "spikes" aka knock frequency as determined by the bore size calculator. The software does a best guess of what knock frequency to monitor based on the bore size. Still early goings and i'm learning the software. This calibration process is also specified in the HKS Knock Amp which I also have installed but that process is a heck of a lot less intuitive to me whereby I found it worth it to buy Tuner Nerd.
I also found a speed senstive reverse lockout solution for the 6spd. It seems the most common method is to wire the 6 spd's transmission's lock out solenoid to the reverse light. Something about that just seems ghetto to me. I searched for a speed dependent switch whereby at a certain speed the unit triggers a 12v signal. I believe Comptech use to make something like this in the past? It's long discontinued if they did. Lingenfelter makes a versatile configurable speed dependent switch - for what purpose, I don't know... After some internet searching I found a local ebayer selling the switchbox unit below. They use these in busses. Maybe for the automatic door close triggered by speed. John @MotorMouth93) reminded me how to wire this thing up and confirmed that I wanted the lowest frequency box which equates to the lowest speed. In this scenario 18.5hz = 4mph as per the VSS square wave signal off the bus. However, 18.5hrz is actually 15mph in JDM speak as most of the JDM VSS's have been standardized. There appears to be a rheostat on the side to adjust the frequency but i've found 15mph is pretty good. In other words, my lockout switch stays engages at any speed above 14mph. So far it's working quite well!
FYI: There are a bunch of these boxes sold online however some are of higher frequencies and some are 24volts. Don't just buy willie nillie.
Wiring:
+ is 12V
- is Ground
SIG is the VSS signal which I grabbed from the ECU harness. It's the only Yellow with Red stripe wire (on the 12 pin harness C2 position IIRC)
N.O. is Normally Open
COM is your signal source
N.C. is Normally Closed.
Your 6spd solenoid is triggered by a 12v + and - together, not polarity dependent. I wired one solenoid wire to +12V ignition trigger. The other wire to N.O. with COM to ground.
Hope that helps!
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This thread has been lacking updates because i've been feeling defeated quite frankly. I've been a little more "active" on IG but not by much. However, I have been very busy in my home garage trying to find out the cause of my misfire. This most recent weekend I finally decided to buy a compressor and leak down test kit. The results weren't terrible on the leakdown (compression test earlier were good) but Cylinder #5 definitely showing signs of intake valve leakage. Probably as a result of prior damage on #5 and the repair may not have gotten to everything. Still unclear until we open the motor. My money is on a dropped valve guide. Blowby thru the breathers are strong but compression and leakdown showing decent numbers (not great, not terrible... again except for #5 ).
Anyway, this is most of the diagnosis/tests I've done on the car. The small consolation with all this work is I was able to change and updated many things on the car that needed maintenance anyway. I'll take the small wins anywhere I can.
New O2 widebands
New intake manifold gaskets
New vacuum lines everywhere
Replaced ID1000 injectors with HQE EV14
Replaced coil on plugs
Replaced spark plugs
Recalibrated ITBs 3 times
Check for header leaks
Compression tested cold (some variances 170-180 psi)
Leakdown tested cold approximately 7% on all except 14% on Cyl 5
Replaced HKS F-Con with new F-Con unit
Rewired wideband controller
Rewired injectors to ECU & osciloscoped
Rewire coils to ECU & osciloscoped
Checked & Tested TPS sensor
Removed cats. Install test pipes
Changed fuel filter
Changed FPR
Changed Fuel pump & filter
Rerouted PCV lines different ways with valve/no valve
Confirmed base timing is ok as per crank pulley
Added multiple main ground 4 gauge wire
Rewired coil harness with new ground locations
Replaced muffler 2x
Anyway, this engine is going back to the building to be opened up. It's not sealing somewhere and the misfire is still unresolved. It currently idles like a tractor with on-throttle misfire getting worse.
While the car is on hiatus for a while I've decided to do more maintenance on it such as new suspension bushings and balljoints. Also had the JRZs rebuilt.
Anyway, this is most of the diagnosis/tests I've done on the car. The small consolation with all this work is I was able to change and updated many things on the car that needed maintenance anyway. I'll take the small wins anywhere I can.
New O2 widebands
New intake manifold gaskets
New vacuum lines everywhere
Replaced ID1000 injectors with HQE EV14
Replaced coil on plugs
Replaced spark plugs
Recalibrated ITBs 3 times
Check for header leaks
Compression tested cold (some variances 170-180 psi)
Leakdown tested cold approximately 7% on all except 14% on Cyl 5
Replaced HKS F-Con with new F-Con unit
Rewired wideband controller
Rewired injectors to ECU & osciloscoped
Rewire coils to ECU & osciloscoped
Checked & Tested TPS sensor
Removed cats. Install test pipes
Changed fuel filter
Changed FPR
Changed Fuel pump & filter
Rerouted PCV lines different ways with valve/no valve
Confirmed base timing is ok as per crank pulley
Added multiple main ground 4 gauge wire
Rewired coil harness with new ground locations
Replaced muffler 2x
Anyway, this engine is going back to the building to be opened up. It's not sealing somewhere and the misfire is still unresolved. It currently idles like a tractor with on-throttle misfire getting worse.
While the car is on hiatus for a while I've decided to do more maintenance on it such as new suspension bushings and balljoints. Also had the JRZs rebuilt.
While I sulk in depression waiting on what the heck to do with my engine as far as next steps... I decided to add more pain (back pain) by tackling a task i've been putting off for years and years.
Let's get new ball joints and install the bushing kit.
Ball Joints: I contacted Steve Ghent. He's been out of the game for so long he's not sure if he can still get them. I like his because I know several track guys have beat the sh*t out of his and they last. I hope he gets back to me soon. Shad also does ball joint servicing and so does Jeff at Carbon 6 (not sure how I feel about Ti BJ's though).
Bushings: I'll be attempting the much hated Prothane bushing kit. I've already broken one bushing tool from Amazon. It might be 2 by this weekend! Wish me luck.
Also, one of the JRZs had to go back for a leaky shrader valve. Ought to get that back this week. I had a chance to experience what "new" JRZ's felt like. I almost forgot how nice they are.
Does anyone know if these are rebuildable? I know you can buy the Type R units with the heavier durometer rubber. I think mine is shot internally... Might have to buy compliance clamps to seize these in place.
Let's get new ball joints and install the bushing kit.
Ball Joints: I contacted Steve Ghent. He's been out of the game for so long he's not sure if he can still get them. I like his because I know several track guys have beat the sh*t out of his and they last. I hope he gets back to me soon. Shad also does ball joint servicing and so does Jeff at Carbon 6 (not sure how I feel about Ti BJ's though).
Bushings: I'll be attempting the much hated Prothane bushing kit. I've already broken one bushing tool from Amazon. It might be 2 by this weekend! Wish me luck.
Also, one of the JRZs had to go back for a leaky shrader valve. Ought to get that back this week. I had a chance to experience what "new" JRZ's felt like. I almost forgot how nice they are.
Does anyone know if these are rebuildable? I know you can buy the Type R units with the heavier durometer rubber. I think mine is shot internally... Might have to buy compliance clamps to seize these in place.
Sorry to hear about the engine.
That’s a lot of suspension work! I’ll enjoy following your progress. Now that I have to work on my car again, it’s somehow more fun to see what others do too.
That’s a lot of suspension work! I’ll enjoy following your progress. Now that I have to work on my car again, it’s somehow more fun to see what others do too.
This week's update coming in hot!
I was able to install new ball joints in all the commonly replaced areas on the NSX. Basically, Upper and Lower knuckles at the front and the lower rears. The others are not serviceable so you either have to buy new ones from Honda or have them custom machines to accept new balljoints. In my case, those ball joints didn't need to be replaced so i'm servicing them with new ball joint boots (incoming from RFY Japan) and grease. I'm using [MENTION=20830]A.S. Motorsport[/MENTION] balljoints and they are of excellent quality.
The Prothane bushings required quite a bit of modifications...
But so far, they worked out quite well.
Most of the other bushings required "rounding off"
Here is a more detailed explanation of the Prothane (aka. Energy Suspension) bushing install on this thread.
I also installed the Comptech camber inserts in the front uppers. They come with new sleeves for the lower as well but the upper alone should give between -1.75-2.00 of neg camber. Much much needed in my car. If I need more I'm going to install the lowers which will provide another -2-2.25 degrees more. I believe the product description states up to -4 degs of additional correction but i'm not sure if that's -2 on each side or is that -4. This is why I want to proceed with caution and only do the tops for now.
I clocked these back to also add more caster. I'm very much looking forward to this!
Here's the full kit.
Here is the suspension porn with everything clean and done except for the balljoint boots.
https://youtube.com/shorts/RiiQWEkt9JQ
Here's a teaser to the above video. Check out how clean those look!
I'm sending in my seatbelts to get refurbished too. New color coming in. Who wants to take guesses?
I was able to install new ball joints in all the commonly replaced areas on the NSX. Basically, Upper and Lower knuckles at the front and the lower rears. The others are not serviceable so you either have to buy new ones from Honda or have them custom machines to accept new balljoints. In my case, those ball joints didn't need to be replaced so i'm servicing them with new ball joint boots (incoming from RFY Japan) and grease. I'm using [MENTION=20830]A.S. Motorsport[/MENTION] balljoints and they are of excellent quality.
The Prothane bushings required quite a bit of modifications...
But so far, they worked out quite well.
Most of the other bushings required "rounding off"
Here is a more detailed explanation of the Prothane (aka. Energy Suspension) bushing install on this thread.
I also installed the Comptech camber inserts in the front uppers. They come with new sleeves for the lower as well but the upper alone should give between -1.75-2.00 of neg camber. Much much needed in my car. If I need more I'm going to install the lowers which will provide another -2-2.25 degrees more. I believe the product description states up to -4 degs of additional correction but i'm not sure if that's -2 on each side or is that -4. This is why I want to proceed with caution and only do the tops for now.
I clocked these back to also add more caster. I'm very much looking forward to this!
Here's the full kit.
Here is the suspension porn with everything clean and done except for the balljoint boots.
https://youtube.com/shorts/RiiQWEkt9JQ
Here's a teaser to the above video. Check out how clean those look!
I'm sending in my seatbelts to get refurbished too. New color coming in. Who wants to take guesses?
I hope to be wrapping up my full suspension revamp/rebuild/refurbish detour this coming weekend. The OEM Balljoint boots have come in from RF Yamamoto and hopefully Amazon came through with a few bits and bobs like cotter pins.
I got to try dry ice blasting. This is a fun process. So satisfying. It's a much less abbrasive process than vapor blasting so they both have their best use cases. You can see the rear knuckles here compared to the other suspension parts that were vapor blasted in earlier posts. For delicate underbody, plastics, paint, harnesses, hoses, etc... the Dry Ice is a better method. For bare metal items i'd go with vapor blasting. Overall, the dry ice would be my default as it's easier to work with w/o worry of damage. It also leaves an OEM patina to it moreso than vapor blasting.
I finished the last of the [MENTION=20830]A.S. Motorsport[/MENTION]s Ball Joint installation on the rear knuckles.
Since I was in there.. I decided to service the CRF rear toe links. Did I need to? Well, not really. There was very very little noticeable play. Nothing that would affect my alignment. Unfortunately the tie rod electrocized (is that word?) to the factory ball joint end links. It partially galled about 3-4 rows of thread. These are still good so i'll set them aside but I ordered a set of Hard Race end links. If the Hard Race end links turn out to be crap.. I'll swap the heim joints with Aurora units as a plan B.
I also took this time to rebuild my axle lift cups. I designed these 8+yrs ago and not a hiccup since.
Unfortunately the elephant in the room is the status of my motor repair. I'm still waiting on the shop to make time for me...
I got to try dry ice blasting. This is a fun process. So satisfying. It's a much less abbrasive process than vapor blasting so they both have their best use cases. You can see the rear knuckles here compared to the other suspension parts that were vapor blasted in earlier posts. For delicate underbody, plastics, paint, harnesses, hoses, etc... the Dry Ice is a better method. For bare metal items i'd go with vapor blasting. Overall, the dry ice would be my default as it's easier to work with w/o worry of damage. It also leaves an OEM patina to it moreso than vapor blasting.
I finished the last of the [MENTION=20830]A.S. Motorsport[/MENTION]s Ball Joint installation on the rear knuckles.
Since I was in there.. I decided to service the CRF rear toe links. Did I need to? Well, not really. There was very very little noticeable play. Nothing that would affect my alignment. Unfortunately the tie rod electrocized (is that word?) to the factory ball joint end links. It partially galled about 3-4 rows of thread. These are still good so i'll set them aside but I ordered a set of Hard Race end links. If the Hard Race end links turn out to be crap.. I'll swap the heim joints with Aurora units as a plan B.
I also took this time to rebuild my axle lift cups. I designed these 8+yrs ago and not a hiccup since.
Unfortunately the elephant in the room is the status of my motor repair. I'm still waiting on the shop to make time for me...
Started the reassembly process this weekend. Reassembly always seems to take twice as long. I had 3 torque wrenches and that ended up being a good idea. Honda has a sense of humor. Many of the larger bolts are torqued to 69 lb-ft 
I had to mock this up for display. All the Honda suspension components just look so beautiful!
To recap here's what's been completed so far.
* Rebuild the JRZ RS Pros with new seals, oil, and balancing
* ASM ball joints for front outer upper and lower. Rear lower. All the other ball joints were fine (TBH, most were probably fine but the lower ones definitely had signs of wear) so I just repacked them with grease and changed the boots as necessary
* Prothane (AKA Energy Suspension) bushings for front inner uppers, front lowers, rear upper/lowers.
* Hard Race rear toe links (this will be monitored, i'm not 100% sure of the longevity of these)
* Comptech UCA outer camber correction bushing
* Spoon rigid collars
* Rebuilt my axle lift cups (after 8yrs!)
Looks less impressive in the car. I need to get a dry ice session on the entire underside planned.
I had to mock this up for display. All the Honda suspension components just look so beautiful!
To recap here's what's been completed so far.
* Rebuild the JRZ RS Pros with new seals, oil, and balancing
* ASM ball joints for front outer upper and lower. Rear lower. All the other ball joints were fine (TBH, most were probably fine but the lower ones definitely had signs of wear) so I just repacked them with grease and changed the boots as necessary
* Prothane (AKA Energy Suspension) bushings for front inner uppers, front lowers, rear upper/lowers.
* Hard Race rear toe links (this will be monitored, i'm not 100% sure of the longevity of these)
* Comptech UCA outer camber correction bushing
* Spoon rigid collars
* Rebuilt my axle lift cups (after 8yrs!)
Looks less impressive in the car. I need to get a dry ice session on the entire underside planned.
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Amazing work- love those JRZs!
Wow! New Prime is awesome! Thanks for all the work team (mostly @Honcho!)
Now would be a good time fitting for an update from me and my heap!
I cannot express how pleased I am with the NSX at the moment. (Notwithstanding the Elephant in the room which I will address at the end). I've been terribly swamped at work and didn't care about sharing my progress with the world. It became more personal with the car working on it weekend after weekend, always being a mental health tool first and foremost.
I've been enjoying driving this car so much after all the refurbishment which started as a Covid engine build then morphing into it's own living organism capable of eating up all my time, patience, and nearly my sanity. Firstly, after much soul searching such as whether to-sell or not-to-sell, or drive it off a cliff, I made the concious decision to do the things I've always wanted to do for which after that, I'd decide if my heart was still in it or not. Glad to say I still love this heap and it's better than ever. Perhaps some confirmation bias there... noted.
Rebuilding all the suspension pick-up points with geometry corrections, rebuilding the JRZs, softening the spring rate (since this is no longer going to be tracked except for the most special of days), re-webbing the seatbelts, new steering wheel, quick ratio EPS, and a few other things, namely the NA2 6 speed trans with the Type R 4.23 Final + Wavetrac LSD and lastly the Stoptech front BBK, and the RFY rear oversize brake kit... boy, oh boy... the balance off this car is incredible. It's purposefully tuned to be one hell of a Canyon Carver now at the expense of probably being slower on track in trade for more communication at the limits. She'll rotate eagerly but give plenty of warning with the ITBs giving so much throttle control you can easily manage both under/over steer with the throttle and subtle weight transfer. It's blips so eagerly quickly with the gear shifts racheting so smoothly and confidently from a fresh tranny. AND THAT SOUND... ITBs paired with my hacked up CT muffer and motorsport cats.. WOW. She barks with authority but it's still very adult sounding. I'm having a blast with it all and quite frankly didn't care enough to take photos or records videos. Just having fun with the car.
The fun is quickly tempered though... Everytime at relatively low RPM the 3.6L stroker sputters/misfires like it's on bad gas. Just waiting for my turn HQE to figure out the issue with this elusive misfire. It's been the bane of my existence since this motor went in 5 months ago. Installed an AEM Infinity which is faster at Closed Loop compensations, but this misfire cannot be bandaided that way even still unfortunately. I personally feel there's something off with the cams (regrinds). Like the regrind is off by some degrees on one of the lobes, but Dave thinks it's something in the cylinder walls due to the excessive blowby at idle. We'll see. I HOPE! Its too good of a car otherwise.
Sorry for the lack of pics. I got a bit burned out at the end and once it was actually driving and performing well, stopping for photos and taking videos just seemed a lot less important.
Now would be a good time fitting for an update from me and my heap!
I cannot express how pleased I am with the NSX at the moment. (Notwithstanding the Elephant in the room which I will address at the end). I've been terribly swamped at work and didn't care about sharing my progress with the world. It became more personal with the car working on it weekend after weekend, always being a mental health tool first and foremost.
I've been enjoying driving this car so much after all the refurbishment which started as a Covid engine build then morphing into it's own living organism capable of eating up all my time, patience, and nearly my sanity. Firstly, after much soul searching such as whether to-sell or not-to-sell, or drive it off a cliff, I made the concious decision to do the things I've always wanted to do for which after that, I'd decide if my heart was still in it or not. Glad to say I still love this heap and it's better than ever. Perhaps some confirmation bias there... noted.
Rebuilding all the suspension pick-up points with geometry corrections, rebuilding the JRZs, softening the spring rate (since this is no longer going to be tracked except for the most special of days), re-webbing the seatbelts, new steering wheel, quick ratio EPS, and a few other things, namely the NA2 6 speed trans with the Type R 4.23 Final + Wavetrac LSD and lastly the Stoptech front BBK, and the RFY rear oversize brake kit... boy, oh boy... the balance off this car is incredible. It's purposefully tuned to be one hell of a Canyon Carver now at the expense of probably being slower on track in trade for more communication at the limits. She'll rotate eagerly but give plenty of warning with the ITBs giving so much throttle control you can easily manage both under/over steer with the throttle and subtle weight transfer. It's blips so eagerly quickly with the gear shifts racheting so smoothly and confidently from a fresh tranny. AND THAT SOUND... ITBs paired with my hacked up CT muffer and motorsport cats.. WOW. She barks with authority but it's still very adult sounding. I'm having a blast with it all and quite frankly didn't care enough to take photos or records videos. Just having fun with the car.
The fun is quickly tempered though... Everytime at relatively low RPM the 3.6L stroker sputters/misfires like it's on bad gas. Just waiting for my turn HQE to figure out the issue with this elusive misfire. It's been the bane of my existence since this motor went in 5 months ago. Installed an AEM Infinity which is faster at Closed Loop compensations, but this misfire cannot be bandaided that way even still unfortunately. I personally feel there's something off with the cams (regrinds). Like the regrind is off by some degrees on one of the lobes, but Dave thinks it's something in the cylinder walls due to the excessive blowby at idle. We'll see. I HOPE! Its too good of a car otherwise.
Sorry for the lack of pics. I got a bit burned out at the end and once it was actually driving and performing well, stopping for photos and taking videos just seemed a lot less important.
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Wow! it's been a while since I updated this thread. Not much has occurred due to still waiting on Toda to send me parts for when this motor goes back to HQ Engineering. I hope that comes back this month.
I have done a few things since that time which I will post extensive reviews on their own separate threads. These items being the Joeberg Design ID4 Motion dash cluster retrofit screen and my Android Auto full system refresh.
Let's talk about my freshly rebuilt 6spd.
SPECS:
* Gen 1 6spd from a 99 NSX
* OEM Type R Ring and Pinion 4.23:1 final drive ratio
* Wavetrac Limited Slip Differential
I can't seem to find the ratios comparing all of the different possible NSX gearset comparison. SoS had posted one before but they have since taken it down
. Basically the R spec 6spd is a tiny bit more close ratio than the R spec 5 spd with JDM shorties. So it's the most quick ratio Honda based NSX transmission you can build. You can of course build a OS Giken 4.4 final with the 6 spd gears for even more tighter ratio. You can also build the Comptech 4.7 final ratio. Stock is 4.06. Keep in mind that ratios in modern cars tend to go from 3.0-5.0 final drive. My Chevy V8 had a 3.74 and that was considered an moderately aggressive ratio for a low revving V8.
In my local canyons and fwy driving I think the 6spd is about as good as I'm going to get. It keeps things engaging to drive but not so short that it's annoying and buzzy. The 3.6L also has plenty of torque that it pulls in each and every gear even 6th gear is fine for most passing situations. With that said at 80mph 6th gear is still a tad bit higher sitting at ~3200rpm'ish. With the available torque on this motor this could easily sit at 2500rpm and be more fuel efficient. The current gearset fits pretty much every situation I've encountered on the street. It works well at Angeles Crest where the turns are a combination of medium to high speed (up to 120mph if want to break the law) where I'm mostly at 3rd-4th-5th. It also works well at the tight canyons in Malibu and Santa Barbara where I'm mostly using 2nd-3rd-4th. This is also where the Wavetrac shines - in the tight stuff.
EDIT: Someone asked what's better? The JDM shorty 5spd with the R final or a 6spd with the R final. TBH they both feel pretty much the same. The 6spd is closer together of course so you get that little bit of added engagement and acceleration while having a beefier VTEC area between shifts, but is it worth the money? Probably not - they're just so expensive these days and unobtainable. 1-4 gears is comparable enough between the two trannys. Where the 6spd shines is if you do a lot of hwy commuting. I love to listen to listen to music and just zone out on these long drives. The 6th gear overdrive is really the benefit to this. If you only casually go on long trips I'd be just as happy with the 5spd shorties R spec. There's another argument to be made for the 5spd shorties with the stock final... If I was boosted I'd go with this setup, but any NA setup (stroked or not) is best with the R final IMO.
I wasn't sure at first what to expect out of the Wavetrac. The FWD guys love it but a FWD drives differently than a RWD when it comes to LSDs in my experience. I've also owned a few other cars with various LSD types. The most recent being the BRZ's Torsen diff. The Torsen is a bit crude but effective and simple. I have also experienced 3 OEM style NSX diffs; My original worn out stock unit, a freshly rebuilt LSD to R spec breakaway torque spec and a used R spec diff. All 3 were 91-94 disc type diffs. In a nutshell with today's sticky tire technology I feel that the any type of stock NSX 91-94 spec is useless. The 95-00 is a bit better because of the helical gear setup but still using the disc type mating surface. For a long time as witnessed in this thread I have used the OS Giken style adjustable disc type diff. This is still the best performance oriented diff because it's adjustable however not really practical for any type of enthusiast based track days because adjusting it requires a complete tranny tear down (not just dropping the pumpkin like the old days). The OSG also has the dreaded clunking which is just unavoidable despite WPC this or synthetic gear oil that. The Wavetrac is a bit of the best of both worlds. When driving casually on the street or making tight radius turns in the parking lot you won't notice it's there. It doesn't chirp the inside wheel, it doesn't clunk, it doesn't interfere with your day. However when you load up diff in a tight turn it engages quickly and basically locks up the axles. It's pretty good and the best compromise available for our NSX at the moment. You will only notice this when driving aggressively though. If you haven't noticed the one-wheel burnout you probably don't need a new LSD. If you have noticed it, it's annoying as shit!
If there's any negative to the Wavetrac it's probably its lack of fine tuning. It's tunable to an extent but it's like having the option of 3 settings instead of 24 increments like with the OSG. In some turns I have to give it more beans to lock up the diff where with the OSG you can feather the throttle a bit to still manage some slip of the inside wheel. Therefore in some instances the Wavetrac feels like it wants to drift more than say a moderately tight OSG. For practical purposes, unless you're Ayrton Senna - you probably will never notice this.
Once we get my motor healthy I will be tracking the car and will have more feedback on the Wavetrac.
Here are photos of the Wavetrac. The last pic is when setting preload. You need special tools for this. If you're tranny rebuilder doesn't know what this is, he's probably the wrong guy rebuilding your tranny.
I have done a few things since that time which I will post extensive reviews on their own separate threads. These items being the Joeberg Design ID4 Motion dash cluster retrofit screen and my Android Auto full system refresh.
Let's talk about my freshly rebuilt 6spd.
SPECS:
* Gen 1 6spd from a 99 NSX
* OEM Type R Ring and Pinion 4.23:1 final drive ratio
* Wavetrac Limited Slip Differential
I can't seem to find the ratios comparing all of the different possible NSX gearset comparison. SoS had posted one before but they have since taken it down
. Basically the R spec 6spd is a tiny bit more close ratio than the R spec 5 spd with JDM shorties. So it's the most quick ratio Honda based NSX transmission you can build. You can of course build a OS Giken 4.4 final with the 6 spd gears for even more tighter ratio. You can also build the Comptech 4.7 final ratio. Stock is 4.06. Keep in mind that ratios in modern cars tend to go from 3.0-5.0 final drive. My Chevy V8 had a 3.74 and that was considered an moderately aggressive ratio for a low revving V8.In my local canyons and fwy driving I think the 6spd is about as good as I'm going to get. It keeps things engaging to drive but not so short that it's annoying and buzzy. The 3.6L also has plenty of torque that it pulls in each and every gear even 6th gear is fine for most passing situations. With that said at 80mph 6th gear is still a tad bit higher sitting at ~3200rpm'ish. With the available torque on this motor this could easily sit at 2500rpm and be more fuel efficient. The current gearset fits pretty much every situation I've encountered on the street. It works well at Angeles Crest where the turns are a combination of medium to high speed (up to 120mph if want to break the law) where I'm mostly at 3rd-4th-5th. It also works well at the tight canyons in Malibu and Santa Barbara where I'm mostly using 2nd-3rd-4th. This is also where the Wavetrac shines - in the tight stuff.
EDIT: Someone asked what's better? The JDM shorty 5spd with the R final or a 6spd with the R final. TBH they both feel pretty much the same. The 6spd is closer together of course so you get that little bit of added engagement and acceleration while having a beefier VTEC area between shifts, but is it worth the money? Probably not - they're just so expensive these days and unobtainable. 1-4 gears is comparable enough between the two trannys. Where the 6spd shines is if you do a lot of hwy commuting. I love to listen to listen to music and just zone out on these long drives. The 6th gear overdrive is really the benefit to this. If you only casually go on long trips I'd be just as happy with the 5spd shorties R spec. There's another argument to be made for the 5spd shorties with the stock final... If I was boosted I'd go with this setup, but any NA setup (stroked or not) is best with the R final IMO.
I wasn't sure at first what to expect out of the Wavetrac. The FWD guys love it but a FWD drives differently than a RWD when it comes to LSDs in my experience. I've also owned a few other cars with various LSD types. The most recent being the BRZ's Torsen diff. The Torsen is a bit crude but effective and simple. I have also experienced 3 OEM style NSX diffs; My original worn out stock unit, a freshly rebuilt LSD to R spec breakaway torque spec and a used R spec diff. All 3 were 91-94 disc type diffs. In a nutshell with today's sticky tire technology I feel that the any type of stock NSX 91-94 spec is useless. The 95-00 is a bit better because of the helical gear setup but still using the disc type mating surface. For a long time as witnessed in this thread I have used the OS Giken style adjustable disc type diff. This is still the best performance oriented diff because it's adjustable however not really practical for any type of enthusiast based track days because adjusting it requires a complete tranny tear down (not just dropping the pumpkin like the old days). The OSG also has the dreaded clunking which is just unavoidable despite WPC this or synthetic gear oil that. The Wavetrac is a bit of the best of both worlds. When driving casually on the street or making tight radius turns in the parking lot you won't notice it's there. It doesn't chirp the inside wheel, it doesn't clunk, it doesn't interfere with your day. However when you load up diff in a tight turn it engages quickly and basically locks up the axles. It's pretty good and the best compromise available for our NSX at the moment. You will only notice this when driving aggressively though. If you haven't noticed the one-wheel burnout you probably don't need a new LSD. If you have noticed it, it's annoying as shit!
If there's any negative to the Wavetrac it's probably its lack of fine tuning. It's tunable to an extent but it's like having the option of 3 settings instead of 24 increments like with the OSG. In some turns I have to give it more beans to lock up the diff where with the OSG you can feather the throttle a bit to still manage some slip of the inside wheel. Therefore in some instances the Wavetrac feels like it wants to drift more than say a moderately tight OSG. For practical purposes, unless you're Ayrton Senna - you probably will never notice this.
Once we get my motor healthy I will be tracking the car and will have more feedback on the Wavetrac.
Here are photos of the Wavetrac. The last pic is when setting preload. You need special tools for this. If you're tranny rebuilder doesn't know what this is, he's probably the wrong guy rebuilding your tranny.
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Definitely noticed this on mine, attributed it to worn out discs, I'll see how it goes now that it's rebuilt with new discs.. this gen LSD is supposed to be a bit better indeed. Wish I knew about that Wavetrac LSD, seems like it's indeed a really good compromise for a mix of public roads and track driving. Really looking forward to your driving impressions with that LSD
I'd be curious if the rebuild/new discs work for you. I have gone this route thinking the disc were worn out too. After a rebuild it really didn't turn out to be much different. Granted this was on 200UHP modern tires and I had a CTSC at the time.Definitely noticed this on mine, attributed it to worn out discs, I'll see how it goes now that it's rebuilt with new discs.. this gen LSD is supposed to be a bit better indeed. Wish I knew about that Wavetrac LSD, seems like it's indeed a really good compromise for a mix of public roads and track driving. Really looking forward to your driving impressions with that LSD
Yeah, I'm not sure if the discs are really the culprit. I've measured a few diff discs over the years, all at or over 90k and they were all well within factory specs. Remember the locking mechanism was designed for a 270hp car on skinny 15/16 tires. More likely the 400 hp supercharger and extra phatt R-comp rear tires just overwhelmed it. I'm also eager to for the feedback on the Wavetrac- it's so cool to still have vendors that are willing to develop for this old Honda.
Might be a while! My car isn't track ready yet. However, I drive like an asshole on the street when no one is around and so far this LSD es muy bueno+1 curious on the feedback on the Wavetrac!
The last few weeks have been spent trying to figure out the Drive By Wire setup on the ITB. It's been quite finicky but we think we might be getting somewhere. I'm emailing Jenvey directly because their DBW motor isn't working like most others and it's causing us to create some unruly workarounds.
Cliff Notes: Can't get the car to idle properly. Will still die occassionally. DBW itself and being to control throttle mapping IS AMAZING especially in an ITB setup. More on this later...
Here's my email to them if anyone cares: It's not easy to find info on this unit online so hope this helps someone. I will update this as we go...
Here's the DBW as it sits on the car. Please pardon the mess in there. I've had to reinstall/uninstall/rewire/re-pin so much shit during this process.
Towing 3hrs to dyno. Can't thank @illwillem enough for the assist.
My new tuner is super legit. More on him later. I'll do a full youtube video to document his work.
Cliff Notes: Can't get the car to idle properly. Will still die occassionally. DBW itself and being to control throttle mapping IS AMAZING especially in an ITB setup. More on this later...
Here's my email to them if anyone cares: It's not easy to find info on this unit online so hope this helps someone. I will update this as we go...
Here's the DBW as it sits on the car. Please pardon the mess in there. I've had to reinstall/uninstall/rewire/re-pin so much shit during this process.
Towing 3hrs to dyno. Can't thank @illwillem enough for the assist.
My new tuner is super legit. More on him later. I'll do a full youtube video to document his work.
