Great to see the development Regan. Totally agree on the KSP- I used it too and it made the ABS upgrade go much faster. Plus, they use crimped pins, not sodler, which can crack from temp extremes and movement.
RYU's "properly molested" NSX build thread
- Thread starter RYU
- Start date
Thanks [MENTION=18194]Honcho[/MENTION]! This thread might soon be dormant. I'm really really enjoying more and more just driving this car. My tuning days are nearly over I think. Goal almost achieved!
To anyone else following this thread...
I swapped the rear springs to 7K (from 6K). So now i've got a Type-R like spring bias of 9K front 7K rear. I also raised the car 10mm (got rid of the mild bumpsteer). I really like the new spring setup now. It still very mildly unsteers which is what I wanted but the car is much more willing to rotate. I think the base sway bar and spring setup is on point. I can leave the fine tuning to damper stiffness and tire pressures. I'm pretty stoked. I must have driven 200 miles + today. Smiles all around.
btw... these JRZ dampers. Oh my... they are amazing. I'm so spoiled. Makes me wish I could afford the 3-ways. I can only imagine how much more juicy those must be
To anyone else following this thread...
I swapped the rear springs to 7K (from 6K). So now i've got a Type-R like spring bias of 9K front 7K rear. I also raised the car 10mm (got rid of the mild bumpsteer). I really like the new spring setup now. It still very mildly unsteers which is what I wanted but the car is much more willing to rotate. I think the base sway bar and spring setup is on point. I can leave the fine tuning to damper stiffness and tire pressures. I'm pretty stoked. I must have driven 200 miles + today. Smiles all around.
btw... these JRZ dampers. Oh my... they are amazing. I'm so spoiled. Makes me wish I could afford the 3-ways. I can only imagine how much more juicy those must be
Beautiful car and it was great seeing you yesterday. Angeles Crest Highway was awesome and very little traffic. A great day up in the mountains.
Great seeing you too [MENTION=25419]Valhalla[/MENTION]. As we were going up I wish I took lead and take you guys on a short 15 mile detour through Angeles Forest Hwy. It's newly repaved and it is as smooth as a baby's bum. No rocks on that end either - but more importantly no CHP there unlike ACH. Wish I could have stayed longer. It was a very short morning for me. Your ride looks great!!! Hope to see it closer up next time.
NSXPO 2015
I attended my first NSXPO. A lot has been said about the event but it's never enough to say thank you to the people involved in program planning. It was awesome.
Thermal Club Prep & Performance
The car was checked out, aligned, and corner balanced at Applied Motorsports. This is the first time i've ever had the car corner balanced. It felt good - very good. Why did it take me so long... shrug. car still understeers which you'll see in the video below. Still struggling to tune that. Car felt better than ever but still not perfect. It doesn't help that i've been spending a lot of time in a McLaren lately. I'll be at Sears Point this wknd in a 650S. Pretty excited about that.
Notice the car is about 3,000lbs. That's with about 250lbs of driver, full fluids including 3/4 tank of gas, and other crap like in the car.
Lots of bad habits here. This wasn't my fastest lap but it was one of the few where I actually remembered to turn on the gopro. I need to pick up the WiFi enabled gopro. Those seem so much easier to use. I'm pretty sure I was faster when I was following [MENTION=6942]ryneen[/MENTION] and Bruce McPherson around. Those guys fly!!!
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dOmO_dJNLqY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>
The car ran very cool - amazing really. It must have been 103F in Palm Springs. Coolant temps were pretty much rock solid in the high 190sF thanks to the MASiV radiator. IATs also stayed cool at around 120-130F until I ran out of water to spray and the pump started cavitating. I need to find a baffled meth/water bottle for that. Also, oil temps spiked up to 270F one time. It's not horrible but too high for comfort. I did notice this weekend, as I was inspecting the car, the makeshift ducting I made folded over and blocked the oil cooler completely from getting any air flow. It was as if someone put a trashbag in front of your radiator. I hope that was the cause of the oil running so hot. It's never gotten over 240-250F before.
Some peak readings for you below (in green). This was after quick cool down lap
Alex, [MENTION=14201]kuni[/MENTION], and I were the last ones out of Thermal that day. Good times! I would go back.
New Parts
There are some cool parts here. I guess I would categorize some of these under "Unicorn NSX parts"
Pure Performance "lifetime filter". These are pretty cool if you haven't heard of them. 2 micron filtration, better flow, magnetic, etc. It's better than the stock paper filter. There's a billet Comptech oil cap. Talk about a blast from the past. That's a Dali Titanium rear coupe strut bar. It weighs nearly nothing. I'm tempted to be a poser and anneal it blue (lol). You have seen an ATI damper before which I believe is on backorder so perhaps that's on the endangered species list too. Lastly, a very cool, discontinued S.S.I. quick release steering wheel hub.
Also picked up a Pro Car hood. Quality is as expected. I'm thinking of leaving it bare CF for a while. It's pretty.
Tim's (@jorligan) rig from NSXPO. I'm insanely jealous about his Toy Hauler for the Gods. Damn you Tim!
Until next time friends!
I attended my first NSXPO. A lot has been said about the event but it's never enough to say thank you to the people involved in program planning. It was awesome.
Thermal Club Prep & Performance
The car was checked out, aligned, and corner balanced at Applied Motorsports. This is the first time i've ever had the car corner balanced. It felt good - very good. Why did it take me so long... shrug. car still understeers which you'll see in the video below. Still struggling to tune that. Car felt better than ever but still not perfect. It doesn't help that i've been spending a lot of time in a McLaren lately. I'll be at Sears Point this wknd in a 650S. Pretty excited about that.
Notice the car is about 3,000lbs. That's with about 250lbs of driver, full fluids including 3/4 tank of gas, and other crap like in the car.
Lots of bad habits here. This wasn't my fastest lap but it was one of the few where I actually remembered to turn on the gopro. I need to pick up the WiFi enabled gopro. Those seem so much easier to use. I'm pretty sure I was faster when I was following [MENTION=6942]ryneen[/MENTION] and Bruce McPherson around. Those guys fly!!!
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dOmO_dJNLqY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>
The car ran very cool - amazing really. It must have been 103F in Palm Springs. Coolant temps were pretty much rock solid in the high 190sF thanks to the MASiV radiator. IATs also stayed cool at around 120-130F until I ran out of water to spray and the pump started cavitating. I need to find a baffled meth/water bottle for that. Also, oil temps spiked up to 270F one time. It's not horrible but too high for comfort. I did notice this weekend, as I was inspecting the car, the makeshift ducting I made folded over and blocked the oil cooler completely from getting any air flow. It was as if someone put a trashbag in front of your radiator. I hope that was the cause of the oil running so hot. It's never gotten over 240-250F before.
Some peak readings for you below (in green). This was after quick cool down lap
Alex, [MENTION=14201]kuni[/MENTION], and I were the last ones out of Thermal that day. Good times! I would go back.
New Parts
There are some cool parts here. I guess I would categorize some of these under "Unicorn NSX parts"
Pure Performance "lifetime filter". These are pretty cool if you haven't heard of them. 2 micron filtration, better flow, magnetic, etc. It's better than the stock paper filter. There's a billet Comptech oil cap. Talk about a blast from the past. That's a Dali Titanium rear coupe strut bar. It weighs nearly nothing. I'm tempted to be a poser and anneal it blue (lol). You have seen an ATI damper before which I believe is on backorder so perhaps that's on the endangered species list too. Lastly, a very cool, discontinued S.S.I. quick release steering wheel hub.
Also picked up a Pro Car hood. Quality is as expected. I'm thinking of leaving it bare CF for a while. It's pretty.
Tim's (@jorligan) rig from NSXPO. I'm insanely jealous about his Toy Hauler for the Gods. Damn you Tim!
Until next time friends!
I'll be able to comment on fitment and usage but unless my engine blows from some oil related issue I won't really know lol
It's like jewelry though. Very well made product. Hope it functions as advertised. A lot of positive reviews online seem to think so.
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BTW... My main goal with this filter is to get <1 micron filtration as claimed, neodymium magnetic media, and higher oil flow thru rate. The cleaning and maintenance is actually rather annoying.
It's like jewelry though. Very well made product. Hope it functions as advertised. A lot of positive reviews online seem to think so.
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BTW... My main goal with this filter is to get <1 micron filtration as claimed, neodymium magnetic media, and higher oil flow thru rate. The cleaning and maintenance is actually rather annoying.
good point!
Needed some retail therapy yesterday and finally made a decision on a air/oil separator. Having a few track days under my belt, I REALLY want to get rid of that breather filter, catch can setup.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Steeda/957/555-3712/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/i/Steeda/957/555-3712/10002/-1
[MENTION=20915]RYU[/MENTION], how does one decide to use a catch can (or seemingly better, the separator) rather than the standard setup, which just sends the PCV valve output back to the intake (I think)?
This is a pretty good discussion on the pros/cons. http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/154972-Oil-catch-can
Ultimately, I dislike venting into the atmosphere. At the track my breather filter gets rather grimy and for all practical reasons, i'd like that to be cleaner. I also notice a slightly more stable idle recirculating back into the CTSC snout.
If you have any questions/concerns, happy to debate the topic here.
Ultimately, I dislike venting into the atmosphere. At the track my breather filter gets rather grimy and for all practical reasons, i'd like that to be cleaner. I also notice a slightly more stable idle recirculating back into the CTSC snout.
If you have any questions/concerns, happy to debate the topic here.
Nice updates Regan, the pro car hood looks so clean, not sure how it looks in person but from the pic's its hard to tell its cf, because it matches the car so well.
As far as seperators go. I would like to hear some more of your thoughts, when I had my civic hb with a ls/vtec motor I used one and it worked well, would drain it every oil change and find some moisture and oil mixture in there that would normally go back into the manifold. I really wish i could remember the brand for more details.
As far as seperators go. I would like to hear some more of your thoughts, when I had my civic hb with a ls/vtec motor I used one and it worked well, would drain it every oil change and find some moisture and oil mixture in there that would normally go back into the manifold. I really wish i could remember the brand for more details.
Will wait for [MENTION=28830]jwmelvin[/MENTION] to chime in. Should make for an interesting discussion
Thank you for the link; I now begin to understand something that I should have since getting into the FI world.
I agree with your approach of pulling the vapors back into the intake. While I am disappointed that I simply have a direct connection, at least I get to design and implement an approach intentionally. So what led you to that particular choice of separator? I'm thinking that having a drain valve on the bottom will be convenient. Are you enamored with the "5.0" logo?
Will wait for @jwmelvin to chime in. Should make for an interesting discussion
That makes me think you expect me to say something inflammatory. I will work on that.
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I'm surprised at the amount of blowby people are getting here.
I run relatively low-tension rings in my rebuild, and intentionally set the ring gap a little larger than recommended by the Japanese ring maker (based on my expected peak combustion temps).
Even then, when breaking in the engine N/A after the rebuild, I had surprisingly little-to-no blowby. During break-in I had dual Moroso air/oil separators routed with a correct closed OEM PCV configuration, each with a stainless steel condensation mesh and drains (they were the best from my research but a little spendy). That was due to me worrying I was going to have excessive blowby and wanting to accurately measure it. With the dry sump it is now a single large separator/oil reservoir and harder to tell the combustion byproducts in the crankcase....
Daves post #96 from the link above is a good way to set up your PCV system for a FI'd engine. Otherwise the first few pages of that thread contained a lot of misinformation. There is another way to insert the suction line from the separator into the compressor inlet, but the 45 degree angle should work OK. I don't recommend the exhaust suction for a few reasons.
Setting it up for a N/A system is a bit more tricky actually with the retained PCV valve! Here's my old N/A setup for breaking in the engine... There are 10AN bulkhead fittings on the top of each valve cover BTW. Sorry for the secrecy in the rest of the bay...
I run relatively low-tension rings in my rebuild, and intentionally set the ring gap a little larger than recommended by the Japanese ring maker (based on my expected peak combustion temps).
Even then, when breaking in the engine N/A after the rebuild, I had surprisingly little-to-no blowby. During break-in I had dual Moroso air/oil separators routed with a correct closed OEM PCV configuration, each with a stainless steel condensation mesh and drains (they were the best from my research but a little spendy). That was due to me worrying I was going to have excessive blowby and wanting to accurately measure it. With the dry sump it is now a single large separator/oil reservoir and harder to tell the combustion byproducts in the crankcase....
Daves post #96 from the link above is a good way to set up your PCV system for a FI'd engine. Otherwise the first few pages of that thread contained a lot of misinformation. There is another way to insert the suction line from the separator into the compressor inlet, but the 45 degree angle should work OK. I don't recommend the exhaust suction for a few reasons.
Setting it up for a N/A system is a bit more tricky actually with the retained PCV valve! Here's my old N/A setup for breaking in the engine... There are 10AN bulkhead fittings on the top of each valve cover BTW. Sorry for the secrecy in the rest of the bay...
Perhaps I still don't follow: why remove the PCV valves in the valve covers in a boosted application? Since I have a CTSC, the vacuum source is easy (one on blower intake snout and one on the pre-throttle-body bellows).
Additional question: now I'm interested in the two different connections from the valve covers to the intake. Thinking about it, the post-TB tap (on the SC intake snout) will pull vacuum whereas the pre-TB tap is atmospheric. And now I see that the atmospheric tap is called the breather and it doesn't have a check valve. I guess that increases the air exchange through the crankcase? What's the best approach to pulling from the catch can? As in do I maintain the breather pipe or connect both valve covers to the catch can? If so, the one currently on the breather pipe will need a check valve, right?
further: okay, it's astonishing sometimes how much I don't know. So the breather must stay of course and that leaves me only one source to feed the catch can or separator. And now I see that PCV valves are a type of check valve in combination with a proportional valve in the other direction, so they are fully open at a zero pressure difference and close as vacuum is pulled by the intake. But that makes me think that one would want a differently tuned valve to maintain full flow when the crankcase is under positive pressure relative to the intake (as may occur under boost). Is there a disadvantage to higher flow through the PCV system at idle, as would occur with a simple check valve as the PCV valve?
Additional question: now I'm interested in the two different connections from the valve covers to the intake. Thinking about it, the post-TB tap (on the SC intake snout) will pull vacuum whereas the pre-TB tap is atmospheric. And now I see that the atmospheric tap is called the breather and it doesn't have a check valve. I guess that increases the air exchange through the crankcase? What's the best approach to pulling from the catch can? As in do I maintain the breather pipe or connect both valve covers to the catch can? If so, the one currently on the breather pipe will need a check valve, right?
further: okay, it's astonishing sometimes how much I don't know. So the breather must stay of course and that leaves me only one source to feed the catch can or separator. And now I see that PCV valves are a type of check valve in combination with a proportional valve in the other direction, so they are fully open at a zero pressure difference and close as vacuum is pulled by the intake. But that makes me think that one would want a differently tuned valve to maintain full flow when the crankcase is under positive pressure relative to the intake (as may occur under boost). Is there a disadvantage to higher flow through the PCV system at idle, as would occur with a simple check valve as the PCV valve?
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Haha! Maybe the 5.0 is compensating for something!Thank you for the link; I now begin to understand something that I should have since getting into the FI world.
I agree with your approach of pulling the vapors back into the intake. While I am disappointed that I simply have a direct connection, at least I get to design and implement an approach intentionally. So what led you to that particular choice of separator? I'm thinking that having a drain valve on the bottom will be convenient. Are you enamored with the "5.0" logo?
That makes me think you expect me to say something inflammatory. I will work on that.
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I didn't choose the one with the drain on the bottom (Jeg's has 3 versions I was looking at). This was the one with the drain on the bottom and is more expensive. Again, from a practical standpoint anywhere in the engine bay doesn't lend itself to easy drain operation especially when the engine is hot as F. For my usage, i'd rather unscrew the bottom, walk over to the oil recycling bin and dump it whilts allowing me to visually inspect the contents. On the drain version, getting a hose or a cup under the drain fitting, releasing the valve, etc.. might work for some though. I wanted less fuss and I didn't want the valve to leak which is a possibility, not only leak fluid but potential vacuum leak as well. I'm sure both will work fine but I wanted to keep it as simple as possible.
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Also, [MENTION=12356]Mac Attack[/MENTION], in my research on this topic I also noticed that the right way to build one is as you mentioned; screen/baffle type construction. Many of those types available online were $300 or more. I then started to research on the Evo and STi forums. For obvious reasons they have much experience with air/oil separators. I deferred to a few parts suggestions on there many of which were also expensive. I'm going to try this 5.0 (lol) Steeda unit since it was designed for a supercharged mustang apparently. The filtration is questionable. Do you think it's worth my time to try this one?
BTW.. Good hearing from you man. Always glad to have you here on prime. I've learned so much from you.
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[MENTION=4799]DDozier[/MENTION]'s post #96 specifies a catch can. From what I can gather a catch can is something that does not need to maintain an air seal or is otherwise pre-throttle body. An Air/Oil separator is post throttle body and will need to maintain an air tight environment. Correct me if i'm wrong...
It looks like I will need a PCV valve again with the air/oil separator?
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/154972-Oil-catch-can?p=1791561&viewfull=1#post1791561
I haven't gotten that distinction at all (catch can vs. AOS). I would say the terms as used are largely synonymous. As far as the task of separating oil from air, the appropriate design depends on the nature of the incoming flow: centrifugal separation works for aerosols with somewhat larger droplet size while a vaporous flow requires surface area for condensing (e.g. a metal-fiber wool or porous material). I'm guessing that there is plenty of vapor in the flow here and therefore that a condensing design has a role.
Assuming you are connecting a vacuum source, both CC and AOS need to maintain a seal. I don't follow that possible distinction.
And what about maintaining the breather tube?
i further notice that Steeda unit doesn't appear to be a centrifugal separator in any event. So it really is the same as many of the simpler catch can designs. Although expensive and perhaps larger than necessary, the one made by Elite Engineering looks pretty good.
Assuming you are connecting a vacuum source, both CC and AOS need to maintain a seal. I don't follow that possible distinction.
And what about maintaining the breather tube?
i further notice that Steeda unit doesn't appear to be a centrifugal separator in any event. So it really is the same as many of the simpler catch can designs. Although expensive and perhaps larger than necessary, the one made by Elite Engineering looks pretty good.
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- Joined
- 9 October 2012
- Messages
- 1,954
[MENTION=20915]RYU[/MENTION] I think I mentioned it at some point but I'm going to give Radium a try. Here's some read on it too: https://www.radiumauto.com/Blog/Post/Catch-Cans-101-102
Not sure if i'm answering your question correctly. Let me know if i'm off base in the response.
Basically, when I mentioned the need to maintain a seal, that only applies to a return connection (Valvecover > CTSC Snout) after the Throttle Body. Since it is after the TB, if an air leak exists, it's essentially a vacuum leak and will cause the engine to idle higher among other things... It's essentially an unmetered air source post TB and post TPS.
A catch can, as least the way I understand it, and obviously the nomenclature is debatable, releases vapors from the valve cover straight to the atmosphere via the breather filter post "catch can". As is also illustrated in post #96 on previous thread.
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btw.. the reason why I think I DO NOT need a PCV is because my setup will take the existing vent hose as is on an OEM or CTSC setup whereby the valve cover vent connects to the intake snout post TB but pre blower. This is essentially always in some vaccuum state or near 0 vaccuum.
dumb question... does the stock PCV valve stop air from going into the valve cover or does it stop air from coming out of it?
Basically, when I mentioned the need to maintain a seal, that only applies to a return connection (Valvecover > CTSC Snout) after the Throttle Body. Since it is after the TB, if an air leak exists, it's essentially a vacuum leak and will cause the engine to idle higher among other things... It's essentially an unmetered air source post TB and post TPS.
A catch can, as least the way I understand it, and obviously the nomenclature is debatable, releases vapors from the valve cover straight to the atmosphere via the breather filter post "catch can". As is also illustrated in post #96 on previous thread.
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btw.. the reason why I think I DO NOT need a PCV is because my setup will take the existing vent hose as is on an OEM or CTSC setup whereby the valve cover vent connects to the intake snout post TB but pre blower. This is essentially always in some vaccuum state or near 0 vaccuum.
dumb question... does the stock PCV valve stop air from going into the valve cover or does it stop air from coming out of it?
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That Radium looks like a reasonable design. I still think the Elite may be better but I wonder why these don't use centrifugal separation as a first stage and then condensation on the mesh material after the flow slows and starts to cool. I don't like how the Radium passes flow through the mesh when the flow is fastest and hottest.
Ah, thanks [MENTION=27958]solidol[/MENTION].
These two diagrams answer my pcv and routing questions.
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i'm a mess today... meant to post this illustration. I'm looking at the Closed System in blue.
These two diagrams answer my pcv and routing questions.
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I believe you did! That looks like a nice one, but looks like it still vents to atmosphere. Perhaps the middle one is one that has a return vent back to the intake.
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i'm a mess today... meant to post this illustration. I'm looking at the Closed System in blue.
