Road And Track says only 410HP :(

NetViper

NetViper

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http://www.roadandtrack.com/auto-sh...oncept?zeta_mid=HFM2_689359&zeta_rid=81149124

its widely believed that the direct injected powerplant will be about 3.5 liters in size and produce at least 310 bhp.

An auxiliary lithium-ion battery pack will power two front-mounted electric motors combined inboard in a single housing, that provide an additional 100 hp, for a combined total output of 410 hp

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I sure hope that is wrong.
 
If 410hp goes with a 3000lbs or so then it's not too bad although 400 hp these days for a supposedly 100k car is nothing to brag about.
 
Ric said:
If 410hp goes with a 3000lbs or so then it's not too bad although 400 hp these days for a supposedly 100k car is nothing to brag about.
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With a battery and electric motors, I think 3000lbs is pretty unlikely.

And you are right, a base mustang has 412HP.
 
Don't believe any hp numbers at this point. The powerplant is in the very early stages of devlopment.
 
310hp from 3.5L is pathetic. Thats 350Z #s.

If its less than 100hp/liter then Honda just isnt trying.

400hp is nothing for a supercar, thats less than a Mustang GT or BMW M3. If the electric motors only assist from a start or at low speeds then the car will be a gutless 300hp wonder at higher speeds. Tuning the electric motors to give the car a rewarding and connected and predictable driving experience would be difficult if not impossible. Heck, McLaren is struggling with the hydraulic swaybars on their MP4-12C and swaybars are a lot less complicated from a dynamic standpoint than electric driving motors.

We will see...
 
HP is useless, give me 400 mediocre whp with a capable transmission and good gearing.

battery tech is changing very very fast so the weight may not be as great as you think. Over the last 8 years I have worked for honda, acura, gm, and toyota
on the service side and the progress in batteries I have gotten to see when doing trainings is pretty crazy considering they are in current models which mean by the time the NSX 2.0 comes out we should really be in for a treat and where they plan to mount the batteries will help the car handle well as well. I said it for the last few years this IS the way I thought 2.0 should be built v6 from the RL with IMA tech and sh-awd. I think alot of people will be changing their tunes once we get seat time.

lets just hope they send anyone who owns an NSX an invite to a track day even if it's just ride alongs, I just wanna hear this b!tch!
 
So RWHP will be low 300's. At yesterday's webcast they did bill the new NSX as a TRACK capable CAR. I think R&T is off by 100hp.

Also on the prototype there was a hybrid sticker but no plug in receptacle.

NetViper said:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/auto-sh...oncept?zeta_mid=HFM2_689359&zeta_rid=81149124

its widely believed that the direct injected powerplant will be about 3.5 liters in size and produce at least 310 bhp.

An auxiliary lithium-ion battery pack will power two front-mounted electric motors combined inboard in a single housing, that provide an additional 100 hp, for a combined total output of 410 hp

-------------

I sure hope that is wrong.
Click to expand...
 
tbromley said:
Who the hell is racing an MDX - damn - it's not intended to compete with Porsches Cayenne Turbo S. There isn't anything that does. It's a family SUV not analgous to the NSX, imho.
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Tim, that wasn't my point.

My point was the lack of forward movement in power/liter N/A.

The most power/liter N/A Honda has ever achieved and held that spot for many years was the S2k (until the F458 took it over).

The S2k was rated at 120/liter.

If the 3.5 liter NSX was making 120/liter (maybe more if they improved on the design) would put the engine at 420HP. Add the 100HP electric engine and now you have a VERY respectable NSX replacement that will have an impact on the past NSX value.
 
Here is some food for thought. Acura has admitted that the original powertrain for this NSX was a 3.5L V6 producing 400hp. This is without the electric motors in the tranny and up front. However Honda has scrapped this setup for the NSX and it's now going into the next RL because they felt it was not enough for a car like the NSX.
The actual powertrain for the NSX is still unknown but we can speculate. Honda says it will still be a V6 so i would guess that if the 400hp motor isn't enough then 500hp is plausable. This is without the electric motors offcourse. I would say 30-50hp for the front motors and 100 for the tranny motor(talk about getting rid of drivetrain loss).
Electric motors tend to make more torque than gasoline engine and torque tends to be instant. I have no doubt the three electric motor combo will make 300lb-ft with the V6 we can safely say 500lb-ft is plausable. Remember this is all speculation but if what Honda said about the origins of the next RL's powertrain is true then i don't think i'm too far off.
The only thing that really confuses me is Honda said this car is supposed to fuse man and machine or something along those lines so why the 7speed DSG gear box?
 
I think you're on to something, Bat. ;)

BATMANs said:
If the 3.5 liter NSX was making 120/liter (maybe more if they improved on the design) would put the engine at 420HP. Add the 100HP electric engine and now you have a VERY respectable NSX replacement that will have an impact on the past NSX value.
Click to expand...
 
I think there's too much being read into the displacement of the engine. Sure it's 3.5. But the 3.6l in my GT3 (designed years ago) makes nearly 400.

A modern 3.5 should be able to top 400hp without straining the engine. I'd love to see us all get gobsmacked by a monster performer. It probably won't have monster power, it's not the Honda way, but it's not limitted by displacement.
 
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With two electric motors powering the front wheels it will be very difficult to measure actual combined HP. HP is just one dimension of the overall driving experience anyway.

You guys all sound like the naysayers on the first NSX being underpowered.

I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Go Honda!
 
BATMANs said:
If the 3.5 liter NSX was making 120/liter (maybe more if they improved on the design) would put the engine at 420HP. Add the 100HP electric engine and now you have a VERY respectable NSX replacement that will have an impact on the past NSX value.
Click to expand...

I could see 120hp/L if Honda was using this for a pure bred performance car, but they are looking for fuel economy. So I am not sure how how HP they are going to try and get out of the displacement if they are trying get good fuel economy.

Or maybe they are going for 120/hp and get 420HP out of a 3.5 and the electric motors help out driving around town so you don't use the gas?

I don't know.
 
swbatte said:
I think there's too much being read into the displacement of the engine. Sure it's 3.5. But the 3.6l in my GT3 (designed years ago) makes nearly 400.

A modern 3.5 should be able to top 400hp without straining the engine. I'd love to see us all get gobsmacked by a monster performer. It probably won't have monster power, it's not the Honda way, but it's not limitted by displacement.
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+1 Remember, Ito said power-to-weight is going to be the focus of the design. That means the NSX will have the same ratio as other cars even if it doesn't have the same ultimate output. This is the great challenge of the new NSX and Ito compared it to the great challenge of creating the Aluminum Monocoque in the 1980's, when he was told by many even inside Honda that it was impossible. The new "impossible" task is to make a car with a V6, heavy batteries and electric motors have the same power-to-weight as the GT-R or Z06. This is a huge challenge for the engineers and I think Ito is trying to create the same motivation/pride he had on his team in the 80's.
 
NetViper said:
..... So I am not sure how how HP they are going to try and get out of the displacement if they are trying get good fuel economy.....
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Simple:

Bump up the compression ratio like the GT3 4.0 did.

For the longest time the GM LSx V8 (5.7-6.2 liters) was getting mid to high 20's MPG on the freeway. 2 things contributed to that:

1. High compression engine
2. 6 speed manual
 
Just FYI, the New $30K hyundai Genesis coupe comes with a 3.8V6 with 345HP.

Surely Honda wouldn't put out a V6 with less power than a hyundai genesis!
 
To answer some earlier question:
The hybrid sticker/emblem is to give Prius owners a false sense of comraderie on the highways of our great green/blue planet.
Had some joker in a Prius pop up next to me the other day on the highway trying to egg me into a race? wtf is that about? weird folks out there

-

If they don't bring 450HP+ (120/liter in a 3.75L engine) then why bother bringing it to market at the projected $100K+ range

@BATMANs - Agree completely with your C6 Z06 comment, guy here at the office has one and it's a heck of nice car to drive, he drooled at the opportunity to test drive my NSX though ; )
 
RYU said:
With two electric motors powering the front wheels it will be very difficult to measure actual combined HP. HP is just one dimension of the overall driving experience anyway.
!
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The two front motors are for handling use primarily. The third rear motor will be the driver. And we know KERS will be employed. In Formula 1 guise, that was pegged at 80 HP of assist. I bet Honda goes flywheel just like they had rumored to be deploying in F1 before they pulled out; this keeps weight down (which Ito stated as a priority for NSX 2.0), and became the dominant system among all the top manufacturers in F1. Assuming around Porsche levels of naturally-aspirated efficiency so 125 HP / liter is expected today from a small displacement sports car motor. I bet HP comes in at around 480 for the whole package. This is just using current tech level assumptions, of course ;)
 
NetViper said:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/auto-sh...oncept?zeta_mid=HFM2_689359&zeta_rid=81149124

its widely believed that the direct injected powerplant will be about 3.5 liters in size and produce at least 310 bhp.

An auxiliary lithium-ion battery pack will power two front-mounted electric motors combined inboard in a single housing, that provide an additional 100 hp, for a combined total output of 410 hp

-------------

I sure hope that is wrong.
Click to expand...

Sigh I wonder how many more times people will ask this?? All Road and Track is doing is calculating what the Earthdreams engine combo hp is. The power output is for the Acura RL which will debut the technology. Honda has not announced what HP is for the NSX only commented that the base 3.5 isn't "stout enough".

When I spoke to John Mendell at the debut and tried to get numbers all he would say is the crew working on it believed in 100hp per liter being "fun to drive". The 3.5 that was going to be used in the HSC almost 10 years ago was at 350hp++. It was rumored to be in the 387hp range but that was still considered to low since the HP wars had just started again and 500 to 500+ was what people wanted.

Carry on nothing to see here LOL J/K
 
canieaturchikn said:
Here is some food for thought. Acura has admitted that the original powertrain for this NSX was a 3.5L V6 producing 400hp. This is without the electric motors in the tranny and up front. However Honda has scrapped this setup for the NSX and it's now going into the next RL because they felt it was not enough for a car like the NSX.
The actual powertrain for the NSX is still unknown but we can speculate. Honda says it will still be a V6 so i would guess that if the 400hp motor isn't enough then 500hp is plausable. This is without the electric motors offcourse. I would say 30-50hp for the front motors and 100 for the tranny motor(talk about getting rid of drivetrain loss).
Electric motors tend to make more torque than gasoline engine and torque tends to be instant. I have no doubt the three electric motor combo will make 300lb-ft with the V6 we can safely say 500lb-ft is plausable. Remember this is all speculation but if what Honda said about the origins of the next RL's powertrain is true then i don't think i'm too far off.
The only thing that really confuses me is Honda said this car is supposed to fuse man and machine or something along those lines so why the 7speed DSG gear box?
Click to expand...

I've never read any of this do you have a link? It's always been 400hp with motors that I've read and again that was for RL. Also the 7spd dsg is also for the RL they haven't said what speed would go in the NSX just that it's DSG. Most specualation is they would use the 8 speed originally for the ASCC.
 
Just do a google search for 2012 cars with 400+hp and you'll see how outdated the NSX v2 already is. This car is going to fail miserably if 400hp is the goal.
 
I thought it was interesting that many people commented on the size of the new NSX. Much smaller than the current design - something akin to the current Cayman in size.

If they keep it aluminum and get clever with the design I think they could easily hit 2750-2900 pounds.

The current V6 produces 310 hp. I suspect they'll be able to get close to 400hp from the new one. Perhaps more displacement and more aggressive cam and tuning.

450 hp with the electric motors and a 2,800 lb weight would be just fine with me. Assuming they can price it under $100K.

-Jim
 
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