Revisited Gen1 NSX vs R8 -- Long-Term Value

[The King]

In 2003 list price for my car in Canada was 50k more than in the US. So in fact I paid, in 2011, within 20k of what a new one cost stateside in 03 at full retail. And I probably could sell it now for what I paid for it, in US dollars. You must be a young fella and took that new math in school. So to spell it out slowly for you, the car depreciated about 20 to 25k in 13 years, and is now worth 20-30% more than I paid on the currency difference alone.

 

[95nsxtc]

In 2003 list price for my car in Canada was 50k more than in the US. So in fact I paid, in 2011, within 20k of what a new one cost stateside in 03 at full retail. And I probably could sell it now for what I paid for it, in US dollars. You must be a young fella and took that new math in school. So to spell it out slowly for you, the car depreciated about 20 to 25k in 13 years, and is now worth 20-30% more than I paid on the currency difference alone.

Sure, lets assume im young, which automatically makes you old by reference points, so Ill be slow and extra detailed because you probably need me to be since that's how old people work by assumption.

1. idgaf (probably should spell this acronym out bc you're old but i cant) what your car is worth now. it was never part of the conversation. the only measure that was being talked about was cost when the car was new to cost 8-10 years later bc you cant reference anything later for an R8. we have no idea how much an r8 is going to be worth when it is 25 yo, or much in your irrelevant case because we're getting off topic, the 2nd gen R8 is 13yo

2. you used the Canadian retail price for a reference point, so that's what I used and made my point, sorry if you got butt hurt, my point still stands. im not over here talking about the values of the R8 in the UAE bc its irrelevant to what I said. im not interested in wasting my time bringing currency exchange rates into this, especially at different periods in time

3. your car is appreciating because of the age of the nsx when it first came out. if the nsx was released when your car was made then it would most likely still be depreciating

Bonus. your car is, im assuming Canadian, you have no idea what it would actually do in the US market, which is what ive been talking about, so who cares, technically at this point you've lost money on it if you only "sell it now for what you've paid for it" (if you argue breaking even isn't losing money then we know you're bad at math and money)

 

[B-E-A-S-T]

It strikes me that the real value in the NSX market right now is the early 91/92 coupes as there is enough of a price differential where your buying choices are not interfering with R8 prices for instance. buying an '02+ car for the same price or higher than a '08 R8 if you intend to actually drive it is still a head scratcher for me...

 

[fastaussie]

It strikes me that the real value in the NSX market right now is the early 91/92 coupes as there is enough of a price differential where your buying choices are not interfering with R8 prices for instance. buying an '02+ car for the same price or higher than a '08 R8 if you intend to actually drive it is still a head scratcher for me...

the NSX is certainly more rare, this is not an arguable point. some of that is due to the smaller (poorer?) sales it had over its 15 year run. and some of that is due to 26 years of cars amassing miles, being totaled in accidents, being stolen, etc. naturally each year there will be less around on the market. the R8 is a lot newer and sold a lot more units, so there are obviously a lot more around to choose from. so really, not a direct comparison for investment/appreciation or depreciation discussion. the NSX can legally be considered a classic, the R8 is still in showrooms right now.

both cars are excellent vehicles in their own right, one is just a quarter century newer and shows that advantage in every way that you would expect.

the King and BB seem to live in an alternate reality where they, like some others, believe the NSX to still be the best car in the world and nothing else is even worthy of comparison. they most likely also believe that the Spice Girls are still killing it on top of the charts?

You won't argue my points because every one of them is true! I wasn't attempting to claim that the NSX is a faster, stiffer, or more modern car than the R8. I was merely responding to your statement that the R8 is better every way, which is obviously not true.

quite honestly, some times it's just such a monumental waste of time trying to talk any sense into someone with their head so far up Honda's arse, it's just not worth it.

the NSX is my favourite car, has been since i was a child not nearly close to being old enough to drive an automobile. at that time it was an incredible car, and i still love it for what it is and was. it still is an incredible car, but if you think it's better than every other car on the road you're being a little ridiculous at best.

An NSX has plenty of performance to get one in lots of trouble on the street. There are no decent tracks anywhere around here, so an R8 being quicker on a track means nothing to me. I think fastaussie, while having better things to do in Hawaii, should buy the R8 he always wanted, and drive it home. Surely this amazing car must float, fly, or probably both. Once back in the promised land, you will have no more use for your miserable piece of crap Imola, so feel free to contact me and I'll take it off your hands. Obviously it will be going cheap as it is such an outdated, slow excuse of a car.

it's not for sale, but i wouldn't sell it to you just based on your silly remarks regarding both cars.

i think 95nsxtc has countered enough points on this one for me, aloha...

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all your comments are tru if we were in the 1990s. Ill place this bet now and forever on this forum that a new R8 or 488 will last longer and be cheaper to maintain than the new NSX. best packaging for a non front engine sports car currently - Porsche, although possibly McLaren jus stole this with the 570gt. also if we want to talk resale, the first year R8s in not abused shape have only lost 1/3 of their original value almost a decade later, dunno how the original NSX did but I will bet it didn't do nearly as well.

as of late (the last year or two), i have noticed that clean, manual transmission R8's of either engine configuration have begun to appreciate also...



p.s. my guess is that neither the King or BB has even driven an R8 before? right boys?

 

[B-E-A-S-T]

the NSX is certainly more rare, this is not an arguable point. some of that is due to the smaller (poorer?) sales it had over its 15 year run. and some of that is due to 26 years of cars amassing miles, being totaled in accidents, being stolen, etc. naturally each year there will be less around on the market. the R8 is a lot newer and sold a lot more units, so there are obviously a lot more around to choose from. so really, not a direct comparison for investment/appreciation or depreciation discussion. the NSX can legally be considered a classic, the R8 is still in showrooms right now.

both cars are excellent vehicles in their own right, one is just a quarter century newer and shows that advantage in every way that you would expect.

the King and BB seem to live in an alternate reality where they, like some others, believe the NSX to still be the best car in the world and nothing else is even worthy of comparison. they most likely also believe that the Spice Girls are still killing it on top of the charts?



quite honestly, some times it's just such a monumental waste of time trying to talk any sense into someone with their head so far up Honda's arse, it's just not worth it.

the NSX is my favourite car, has been since i was a child not nearly close to being old enough to drive an automobile. at that time it was an incredible car, and i still love it for what it is and was. it still is an incredible car, but if you think it's better than every other car on the road you're being a little ridiculous at best.



seriously, i wouldn't sell it to you just based on your silly remarks regarding both cars.

i think 95nsxtc has countered enough points on this one for me, aloha...

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as of late (the last year or two), i have noticed that clean, manual transmission R8's of either engine configuration have begun to appreciate also...



p.s. my guess is that neither the King or BB has even driven an R8 before? right boys?

What do you think an NSX is comparable to in terms of cars being sold today, or are you saying so much has happened technologically in the automotive industry that most every car is technically stronger/better? i.e. Porsche Cayman and Lotus Evora for instance...

 

[fastaussie]

What do you think an NSX is comparable to in terms of cars being sold today, or are you saying so much has happened technologically in the automotive industry that most every car is technically stronger/better? i.e. Porsche Cayman and Lotus Evora for instance...

yep, exactly what i would have said. the base Cayman and Evora are both pretty comparable in performance and everyday usability/reliability.

the Cayman GTS and Evora 400 are significantly better performers than the original NSX...

 

[95nsxtc]

as of late (the last year or two), i have noticed that clean, manual transmission R8's of either engine configuration have begun to appreciate also...

yep, this is tru, wasn't even gona bring it up lol

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the NSX is certainly more rare, this is not an arguable point. some of that is due to the smaller (poorer?) sales it had over its 15 year run. and some of that is due to 26 years of cars amassing miles, being totaled in accidents, being stolen, etc. naturally each year there will be less around on the market. the R8 is a lot newer and sold a lot more units, so there are obviously a lot more around to choose from. so really, not a direct comparison for investment/appreciation or depreciation discussion. the NSX can legally be considered a classic, the R8 is still in showrooms right now.

both cars are excellent vehicles in their own right, one is just a quarter century newer and shows that advantage in every way that you would expect.

the King and BB seem to live in an alternate reality where they, like some others, believe the NSX to still be the best car in the world and nothing else is even worthy of comparison. they most likely also believe that the Spice Girls are still killing it on top of the charts?

lmao +1 tho, well said

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What do you think an NSX is comparable to in terms of cars being sold today, or are you saying so much has happened technologically in the automotive industry that most every car is technically stronger/better? i.e. Porsche Cayman and Lotus Evora for instance...

and yes to both of thos. I looked at an evora for the longest time because they are very close to a modern NSX in design, even in dimension measurements

 

[B-E-A-S-T]

yep, exactly what i would have said. the base Cayman and Evora are both pretty comparable in performance and everyday usability/reliability.

the Cayman GTS and Evora 400 are significantly better performers than the original NSX...

Again when you say significantly better performers, putting straight line acceleration aside, do you mean handling, steering wise?

 

[fastaussie]

handling, braking, acceleration, etc. all the performance parameters.

the original NSX is an amazing car, it's just old. it doesn't compare or compete with cars a quarter century newer. that's just the passing of time...

 

[B-E-A-S-T]

handling, braking, acceleration, etc. all the performance parameters.

the original NSX is an amazing car, it's just old. it doesn't compare or compete with cars a quarter century newer. that's just the passing of time...

Thank you always read about the NSX having the best handling and steering feel even compared to modern cars. Acceleration and braking are obviously weak points...I presume that is why people FI and BBK their cars...

 

[fastaussie]

for its time yes, but there are many modern cars that are heaps better in every aspect.

my other favourite car is a Ferrari Dino GTS. a Fiat would destroy it in any competition of performance, but who cares? it's old too, and worth almost $500,000...

 

[Bram]

Thank you always read about the NSX having the best handling and steering feel even compared to modern cars. Acceleration and braking are obviously weak points...I presume that is why people FI and BBK their cars...

@ BEAST
Fristly, do you have an NSX, and secondly have you every driven one?

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for its time yes, but there are many modern cars that are heaps better in every aspect.

my other favourite car is a Ferrari Dino GTS. a Fiat would destroy it in any competition of performance, but who cares? it's old too, and worth almost $500,000...

Love that Car....I should have purchased it when I could have got it for $90k

 

[B-E-A-S-T]

@ BEAST
Fristly, do you have an NSX, and secondly have you every driven one?

Do not have one and am extremely keen to get one and finally have the financial wherewithal to do it but am torn between it and an R8...have to really test drive both, almost wish I could rent each for a couple of days to simulate living with one...since you are the president of the NSX Club of Canada maybe you can help me with that

 

[Bram]

You need to join the Club....

 

[B-E-A-S-T]

You need to join the Club....

How do I do that? Please PM me!

 

[BB]

the King and BB seem to live in an alternate reality where they, like some others, believe the NSX to still be the best car in the world and nothing else is even worthy of comparison. they most likely also believe that the Spice Girls are still killing it on top of the charts?

quite honestly, some times it's just such a monumental waste of time trying to talk any sense into someone with their head so far up Honda's arse, it's just not worth it.

the NSX is my favourite car, has been since i was a child not nearly close to being old enough to drive an automobile. at that time it was an incredible car, and i still love it for what it is and was. it still is an incredible car, but if you think it's better than every other car on the road you're being a little ridiculous at best.

You keep trying to prove your point using a straw man fallacy. Please show me where in this thread I have implied that the NSX is categorically better than the R8 (or any other car for that matter). My original post merely listed 5 areas where the NSX is better without offering an overall judgement about the two cars. Surely we can agree that there are at least a few areas where the older NSX is still better?

Let's start with the one about the NSX providing the lower front cowl which provides a more exotic driving position. In the picture below you can see the NSX's front windshield is noticeably lower and larger than the R8's, providing better visibility and a more "on the road" feel. Also compare the height of the steering wheels and side mirrors. Sitting next to the NSX the R8 nearly looks like a sedan!

While I will admit that I have never driven an R8, I have sat in one and can say the NSX has it unquestionably beat in this area. The unique feel while driving that's provided by the NSX's large windshield and low hood line is what I've always liked most about the car. It somehow manages to make the car always feel like it's going faster than it really is.

 

[AnywhereInTX]

If it was between an R8 and 02+ NSX, I will be choosing the R8. Granted, I don't own a newer model NSX, I have driven and raced against early model R8 V8's and V10's on the track (I was driving my heavily modified 2013 Mustang GT that would embarass BMW M's any day of the week) and they were phenomenal. The R8 has a different feel than the NSX, but if you want numb...drive a GTR. The R8 is a fantastic car and when my NSX time is done, either the R8 or 911 GT3 will be my next purchase.

 

[B-E-A-S-T]

If it was between an R8 and 02+ NSX, I will be choosing the R8. Granted, I don't own a newer model NSX, I have driven and raced against early model R8 V8's and V10's on the track (I was driving my heavily modified 2013 Mustang GT that would embarass BMW M's any day of the week) and they were phenomenal. The R8 has a different feel than the NSX, but if you want numb...drive a GTR. The R8 is a fantastic car and when my NSX time is done, either the R8 or 911 GT3 will be my next purchase.

I am starting to feel the best way to go is to spend $30k, have some mod money leftover and probably get an NSX Coupe...this way you remove the R8 as an option altogether.

 

[AnywhereInTX]

I am starting to feel the best way to go is to spend $30k, have some mod money leftover and probably get an NSX Coupe...this way you remove the R8 as an option altogether.

I was able to step into my high mileage 1993 Coupe for $18.5K in November. I am not complaining...I just get tired of cars no matter how cool they are after a couple years. The NSX was a deal that I couldn't pass up and I love it, but it isn't the dream car of mine. My brother though...that's a different story lol.

Plans for my NSX are to improve the performance side of brakes, suspension, and interior/exterior wear and tear. I have no desire to boost the performance in any terms of FI (especially after blowing multiple engines) for the NSX.

The R8 interests me in the fact that I believe it is the way I thought the NSX would go. Also, a gated shifter mated to a mid-engine V8 is awesome.

 

[B-E-A-S-T]

I was able to step into my high mileage 1993 Coupe for $18.5K in November. I am not complaining...I just get tired of cars no matter how cool they are after a couple years. The NSX was a deal that I couldn't pass up and I love it, but it isn't the dream car of mine. My brother though...that's a different story lol.

Plans for my NSX are to improve the performance side of brakes, suspension, and interior/exterior wear and tear. I have no desire to boost the performance in any terms of FI (especially after blowing multiple engines) for the NSX.

The R8 interests me in the fact that I believe it is the way I thought the NSX would go. Also, a gated shifter mated to a mid-engine V8 is awesome.

If could get an NSX for US$18.5k I am buying it on the spot...let me know when you are bored

One was listed up here with very high miles for CDN$23k but the seller never responded to me...

...I can see why people have to wait to find the right deal!

 

[BB]

I am starting to feel the best way to go is to spend $30k, have some mod money leftover and probably get an NSX Coupe...this way you remove the R8 as an option altogether.

Definitely. The late model NSXs have become way overpriced making one difficult to justify for anyone other than a collector or a wealthy NSX fanboy. At this price level you might as well buy an R8 instead. An early model NSX coupe with moderate to high miles is so much cheaper. Plus the coupe is lighter, more rigid, and has better steering feel than the targa.

How does an NSX coupe with some weight reduction, forced induction, higher end aftermarket coilovers, and proper sticky tires compare to a stock R8 for performance? I suspect it will mostly meet or exceed the performance of the V8 version of the R8 for a lot less money.

You should ask yourself how much you enjoy modding cars? If you truly enjoy modifying cars then the NSX path will likely be far more rewarding and fun.

 

[B-E-A-S-T]

Definitely. The late model NSXs have become way overpriced making one difficult to justify for anyone other than a collector or a wealthy NSX fanboy. At this price level you might as well buy an R8 instead. An early model NSX coupe with moderate to high miles is so much cheaper. Plus the coupe is lighter, more rigid, and has better steering feel than the targa.

How does an NSX coupe with some weight reduction, forced induction, higher end aftermarket coilovers, and proper sticky tires compare to a stock R8 for performance? I suspect it will mostly meet or exceed the performance of the V8 version of the R8 for a lot less money.

You should ask yourself how much you enjoy modding cars? If you truly enjoy modifying cars then the NSX path will likely be far more rewarding and fun.

I am starting to see the light and agree with you 100%. Get a cheap cheap cheap 91-94 coupe, who cares about the title as long as the frame is straight and true. Then do a J Series Twin Turbo, coilovers, BBK and Wheels/Tires...at that point you don't even need to lighten. I love modding cars so this is the stuff dreams are made of lol

 

[BB]

One was listed up here with very high miles for CDN$23k but the seller never responded to me...

...I can see why people have to wait to find the right deal!

It far easier to find a used R8 than it is an NSX. I just did a US nationwide search on autotrader.com for used cars and found this....

R8 = 335 for sale
NSX = 28 for sale

It appears a significant percentage of R8 owners are selling their cars after only a few years while most NSX owners are keeping their car for longer periods of time. However I suspect this pattern may change as the R8 ages further. New cars tend to be owned by those who insist on always having the latest shiny object, but as a car becomes older it will increasingly be owned by true enthusiasts who love it. Since this has not really begun happening yet, my prediction is that R8 prices will continue to decline further before eventually rising again.

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I am starting to see the light and agree with you 100%. Get a cheap cheap cheap 91-94 coupe, who cares about the title as long as the frame is straight and true. Then do a J Series Twin Turbo, coilovers, BBK and Wheels/Tires...at that point you don't even need to lighten. I love modding cars so this is the stuff dreams are made of lol

The big downside of an older coupe is how dated (and possibly worn out) the interior looks. The best OEM looking solution is to remodel the interior to look like the 2002 NSX-R. The 2002 NSX-R interior is unquestionably the most modern looking NSX interior that Honda ever released. I personally like the NSX-R look better than the stock R8 interior....

I've been slowly working to convert my 91 to match this look. I got the seats, steering wheel, shifter, and many of the interior panels. I even recently managed to get a hold of a set of rare NSX-R interior door panels! See here....

The downside is this is all an extremely expensive endeavor, but it's more fun.

 

[fastaussie]

I am starting to see the light and agree with you 100%. Get a cheap cheap cheap 91-94 coupe, who cares about the title as long as the frame is straight and true. Then do a J Series Twin Turbo, coilovers, BBK and Wheels/Tires...at that point you don't even need to lighten. I love modding cars so this is the stuff dreams are made of lol

if that's what you're into, then you're far better off doing what you just said. no point in getting an R8 if you truly enjoy modding a car as you just stated.

How does an NSX coupe with some weight reduction, forced induction, higher end aftermarket coilovers, and proper sticky tires compare to a stock R8 for performance? I suspect it will mostly meet or exceed the performance of the V8 version of the R8 for a lot less money.

a stock R8 V8 makes 430 horsepower, has stonking brakes, and a very rear biased AWD system with a lot of grip. how it compares to a heavily modified NSX, i could only guess? depends exactly what you do to the NSX.

my prediction is that R8 prices will continue to decline further before eventually rising again.

you're prediction is already wrong, as was said earlier in this thread manual R8 prices have been appreciating the last few years.

The downside is this is all an extremely expensive endeavor, but it's more fun.

that is the truth. it will likely end up costing more than just buying a mint R8 or pristine late model NSX. and you're still driving an old, high mileage early model NA1 NSX without the retail value of what you've spent...

 

[BB]

you're prediction is already wrong, as was said earlier in this thread manual R8 prices have been appreciating the last few years.

I was referring the R8 overall, not pricing for any specific variant. However when I do a search on autotrader.com I see this....

R8 manual = 104 cars
R8 auto = 216 cars

Unlike the NSX the majority of original R8 buyers actually wanted an automatic! While I am sure there are enthusiasts who will pay extra for a manual, there were simply too many manuals made for it to ever be considered rare. Thus the R8 manual will probably never have the same level of demand as something like an F430 manual.

The current asking prices for used R8s on autotrader.com confirm what I'm saying.....

Manual R8 - $150K (high), $102K (avg), $56K (low)
Auto R8 - $198K (high), $113K (avg), $65K (low)

The above stats are misleading, try looking to see at what lower price bound the majority of cars begin. I see the majority of cars beginning at around $70K regardless of whether it's a manual or automatic. So there is no evidence that I would have to pay more for an manual if I were buying today.

that is the truth. it will likely end up costing more than just buying a mint R8 or pristine late model NSX. and you're still driving an old, high mileage early model NA1 NSX without the retail value of what you've spent...

I don't think so. An early NA1 coupe with higher miles is $35K and a mint R8 will be $80K to $100K. That would require an insane amount of mods to equal the difference. I paid $4500 for my seats and only $500 for the NSX-R door panels.

As far as resale value goes, I have no plans to sell. However everything I have done is easily reversible. If was forced to sell my car due to unforeseen circumstances I would likely put all the stock pieces back into the interior and then sell the NSX-R parts separately. The rare and discontinued NSX-R parts are likely to appreciate in value, even if used. You can already see this on Japanese auction sites. Discontinued parts such as the floor mats, suspension, and motor mounts are already fetching insane prices.

And I would rather have NSX-R seats than the stock R8 seats which are nothing special. The stock R8 seats are the same as the seats from the RS6 sedan. Almost nobody on r8talk.com appears to be overly impressed with them. Even the stock NSX seats are more comfortable. How much will it cost to buy the seats that come with the R8 GT? If I owned an R8 I would have to get those.

Likewise the R8 infotainment system is beginning to look long in the tooth. Not surprising since the design is 10 years old. While it's certainly better than the NSX's lame Bose cassette system, long term that's of little consequence. If I owned an R8 I'd likely be looking to update the infotainment system too, same as my NSX.