Revisited Gen1 NSX vs R8 -- Long-Term Value

[B-E-A-S-T]

Now that values have started to increase for first generation NSX's and early 2008/2009 Audi R8's have taken a good amount of depreciation, are early NSX owners trading out into R8's or what are everyone's thoughts as to value for dollar over the long-term?

I want to separate the argument for true collector NSX's but rather someone daily driving or intending to put quite a few miles on the vehicle.

Thanks.

 

[95nsxtc]

having technically just done exactly this... the NSX is the better driving and easily more daily-able car, but the R8 is more fun imo as the inputs are much sharper and stronger

 

[B-E-A-S-T]

having technically just done exactly this... the NSX is the better driving and easily more daily-able car, but the R8 is more fun imo as the inputs are much sharper and stronger

When you say better driving could you describe what you mean?

You had a 95 NSX-T and now an R8, coupe or convertible?

By inputs do you mean steering, brakes etc sharper?

Thanks!

 

[95nsxtc]

When you say better driving could you describe what you mean?

You had a 95 NSX-T and now an R8, coupe or convertible?

By inputs do you mean steering, brakes etc sharper?

Thanks!

the nsx is just a smoother, more effortless car all around, the transmission, the compliance in the suspension, the throttle response, etc

coupe

yes, inputs are everything you as a person do to the car to while driving, adding to your list: throttle & shifting

 

[dKweddings]

Great answers 95nsxtc!

B-E-A-S-T, if you haven't already seen this article yet, you might want to check this out: http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/1991-acura-nsx-vs-2012-audi-r8.html

 

[B-E-A-S-T]

Great answers 95nsxtc!

B-E-A-S-T, if you haven't already seen this article yet, you might want to check this out: http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/1991-acura-nsx-vs-2012-audi-r8.html

I read this article before and he basically says the R8 is better in every way but what seems like sentimental reasons he wants to keep the NSX around...from this forum it seems an NSX can be made to outperform an R8 with a 3.5l Stroker and a Twin Turbo or better yet a J Series Twin Turbo swap, but I get the sense when I read people's responses that there really is no comparison, that is how modern and tight and R8 feels?

 

[Stephen@NCAutoUSA]

I had the privilege of riding in a v10 r8 around a track. It was an awesome experience hands down. The car had some type of aftermarket exhaust so when under moderate throttle it wasn't to loud but under wot it was like what a real super car should sound like.

With enough money a lot of cars can be made to perform in some level of the same as others in completely different brackets. If I was in the market for a car and that price was between a nsx or r8 I would choose the r8.

Even if it was a pure type r or type s edition I would still choose the r8. I'm not in love with the car, I don't care for the front to much nor the rear but our cars are just old and well with the pricing the way it is where you can land yourself into a r8 "v8" or a 02+ nsx I would without a doubt spend my money on a r8.

 

[fastaussie]

With enough money a lot of cars can be made to perform in some level of the same as others in completely different brackets. If I was in the market for a car and that price was between a nsx or r8 I would choose the r8.

Even if it was a pure type r or type s edition I would still choose the r8. I'm not in love with the car, I don't care for the front to much nor the rear but our cars are just old and well with the pricing the way it is where you can land yourself into a r8 "v8" or a 02+ nsx I would without a doubt spend my money on a r8.

yup, sensibly said...

I read this article before and he basically says the R8 is better in every way but what seems like sentimental reasons he wants to keep the NSX around...from this forum it seems an NSX can be made to outperform an R8 with a 3.5l Stroker and a Twin Turbo or better yet a J Series Twin Turbo swap, but I get the sense when I read people's responses that there really is no comparison, that is how modern and tight and R8 feels?

that is a great article. and as it and yourself have stated, there is no comparison at all, the R8 is better in every way. as anyone would expect it to be, it is the newer, better, faster version of the original NSX...

 

[95nsxtc]

With enough money a lot of cars can be made to perform in some level of the same as others in completely different brackets. If I was in the market for a car and that price was between a nsx or r8 I would choose the r8.

This is too tru. also it's worth noting that the same amount of money that gets you to 450whp in an NSX, gets you around 700 in an R8 without changing internals and its warrantied

also probably worth noting that regarding my original response, I do have a slightly unique R8 that is probably more aggressive than a normal one, so they could be just as smooth. I haven't driven a normal one in a while to compare

 

[B-E-A-S-T]

This is too tru. also it's worth noting that the same amount of money that gets you to 450whp in an NSX, gets you around 700 in an R8 without changing internals and its warrantied

also probably worth noting that regarding my original response, I do have a slightly unique R8 that is probably more aggressive than a normal one, so they could be just as smooth. I haven't driven a normal one in a while to compare

Can you give me the financial analysis on 450whp NSX vs 700hp R8...I have been trying to do it myself...

Could you tell me more about your R8 in terms of mods you have done and why etc?

Thanks!

 

[95nsxtc]

Can you give me the financial analysis on 450whp NSX vs 700hp R8...I have been trying to do it myself...

Could you tell me more about your R8 in terms of mods you have done and why etc?

Thanks!

To get each of those numbers its 15-20k. For details youll have to look into it urself

And my car is basically a 1 off so not much is known in details, especially bc the company who built it basically cleaned house a few years ago and they dont even kno where the original build sheet is. I posted about on here and a vid in a dif section before

 

[B-E-A-S-T]

To get each of those numbers its 15-20k. For details youll have to look into it urself

And my car is basically a 1 off so not much is known in details, especially bc the company who built it basically cleaned house a few years ago and they dont even kno where the original build sheet is. I posted about on here and a vid in a dif section before

I have been looking at the LoveFab J Series Twin Turbo swap for $15K and then selling the original engine for $6-7k, my understanding is that this gets you to 500whp comfortably -- I am keeping my eye on this...

Your points is well taken about the R8.

I have an odd question about chassis stiffness/performance. I currently have an E46 M3 Convertible so my reference point it poor. You had a NSX-T, do not know if you have driven a NSX Coupe and now you have a R8 Coupe (have you driven a convertible?) -- could you be kind enough to give me your views as a comparative?

 

[95nsxtc]

I have been looking at the LoveFab J Series Twin Turbo swap for $15K and then selling the original engine for $6-7k, my understanding is that this gets you to 500whp comfortably -- I am keeping my eye on this...

Your points is well taken about the R8.

I have an odd question about chassis stiffness/performance. I currently have an E46 M3 Convertible so my reference point it poor. You had a NSX-T, do not know if you have driven a NSX Coupe and now you have a R8 Coupe (have you driven a convertible?) -- could you be kind enough to give me your views as a comparative?

Yea see i thot the turbo swap had a few extra cost components after the 15k. But selling the original engine would def being back some $$$

And yea sure, i did drive a 91 or 92 and really you dont notice the difference in flex within the chassis as it is a targa. The weight is slgithly noticable tho. As for the R8, have not driven a spider but the difference has got to be pretty substantial as there is a change of almost 400lbs bw the coupe and is a tru convertible theres much more bracing that is missing

 

[B-E-A-S-T]

Yea see i thot the turbo swap had a few extra cost components after the 15k. But selling the original engine would def being back some $$$

And yea sure, i did drive a 91 or 92 and really you dont notice the difference in flex within the chassis as it is a targa. The weight is slgithly noticable tho. As for the R8, have not driven a spider but the difference has got to be pretty substantial as there is a change of almost 400lbs bw the coupe and is a tru convertible theres much more bracing that is missing

Sorry I should have been clearer -- between the 91-94 Coupe, your 95 Targa and now your R8 how would you compare the chassis stiffness on a bumpy road or on a track? I love the Targa's but there are so many threads on the chassis flex felt in the steering column when traveling over a bumpy road with the roof panel off and then people who have a coupe that say their car is rock solid i.e. no squeaks or flex on any road condition. Then my understanding the R8 coupe is rock solid but obviously much heavier than the NSX so I wondered if that mattered? Again I have a E46 M3 convertible and it flexes so much that it is very annoying...

 

[95nsxtc]

Sorry I should have been clearer -- between the 91-94 Coupe, your 95 Targa and now your R8 how would you compare the chassis stiffness on a bumpy road or on a track? I love the Targa's but there are so many threads on the chassis flex felt in the steering column when traveling over a bumpy road with the roof panel off and then people who have a coupe that say their car is rock solid i.e. no squeaks or flex on any road condition. Then my understanding the R8 coupe is rock solid but obviously much heavier than the NSX so I wondered if that mattered? Again I have a E46 M3 convertible and it flexes so much that it is very annoying...

All good, but heres my answer, if youre driving a targa, with the roof off, on bumpy roads, to the point where you can feel the chassis flex... then you are stupid. The level at which ud have to drive the nsx to feel that is not suited for bumps and therefor shouldnt be doing that on said road. Half the time i had mine it was on stock suspension and the other on coilovers. Yes you could feel the chassis flex if you really upset it by doing something pretty dumb mid corner. Coilovers def help neutrilize this. But i guarantee you will nvr drive at a level with the traga with the roof on to notice a difference between it and a coupe

As for the R8, its almost im possible to compare in this category for the simple fact that it is has magnetic suspension

 

[fastaussie]

As for the R8, its almost im possible to compare in this category for the simple fact that it is has magnetic suspension

like 95 said, you really can't compare these two cars. the R8 is so much more modern and superior in every way. that's what 25 years of technology marching on will do...

 

[B-E-A-S-T]

like 95 said, you really can't compare these two cars. the R8 is so much more modern and superior in every way. that's what 25 years of technology marching on will do...

I thought I was asking a narrow and somewhat comparative thing like body stiffness and body flexing when driving in a spirited way or over bumpy roads when on the street. Do you have an R8 as well?

 

[BB]

there is no comparison at all, the R8 is better in every way.

1. The NSX has a more exotic driving position due to its noticeably lower cowl. Relatively speaking the R8 feels like you're sitting in a hole.

2. The NSX manual steering rack provides superior road feel. Many describe the R8 steering as being somewhat "numb".

3. The NSX weighs far less than the heavy R8, making it feel more nimble and tossable.

4. The NSX is likely more reliable and cheaper to maintain.

5. The NSX is rarer and more historically significant, making it likely to hold its value better. As good as the original R8 is, there was nothing groundbreaking about it.

 

[fastaussie]

I thought I was asking a narrow and somewhat comparative thing like body stiffness and body flexing when driving in a spirited way or over bumpy roads when on the street. Do you have an R8 as well?

body stiffness and rigidity is far superior on the R8. it's 25 years newer with vastly more modern components. there is no comparison between the two cars.

i don't personally own one, but i have driven my 2002 NSX and Audi R8's of both engine configurations on the same day countless times. and have spent many, many miles on road and track with the R8. it is a magnificent car, and i would buy an old V8 manual in a heartbeat...

1. The NSX has a more exotic driving position due to its noticeably lower cowl. Relatively speaking the R8 feels like you're sitting in a hole.

2. The NSX manual steering rack provides superior road feel. Many describe the R8 steering as being somewhat "numb".

3. The NSX weighs far less than the heavy R8, making it feel more nimble and tossable.

4. The NSX is likely more reliable and cheaper to maintain.

5. The NSX is rarer and more historically significant, making it likely to hold its value better.

As good as the original R8 is, there was nothing groundbreaking about it.

relatively speaking, this is only your opinion, not mine or most others. i could argue some of your points above, but i'm in Hawaii and have better stuff to do.

simple fact of the matter, the R8 is a much more modern car, and significantly better in every way. that's what a quarter century of engineering will do for an automobile.

if you think an NSX compares to an R8 in any measure of performance, you are simply dreaming. a V8 R8 will simply run away from an old NSX and disappear, the V10 even more so.

the first generation R8 doesn't need to be ground breaking, it's an incredible car. it carried on where the old NSX left off and then some. it also easily outsold the original NSX by 1/3 more cars in 1/3 less time. you do the math.

many previous NSX owners and Prime members have also previously or still do own R8's, so there's another testament to the car, not that it needs it...

p.s. in L.A. where i live, i see other NSX's fairly often. i also see 458's, various Lamborghini's and R8's daily. 911's and Prius' are driven by 90% of the population of southern California, but that's entirely another story.

 

[BB]

relatively speaking, this is only your opinion, not mine or most others. i could argue every one of your points above, but i'm not going to.

simple fact of the matter, the R8 is a much more modern car, and significantly better in every way. that's what a quarter century of engineering will do for an automobile. if you think an NSX compares to an R8 in any measure of performance, you are simply dreaming. a V8 R8 will simply run away from an old NSX and disappear, the V10 even more so.

You won't argue my points because every one of them is true! I wasn't attempting to claim that the NSX is a faster, stiffer, or more modern car than the R8. I was merely responding to your statement that the R8 is better every way, which is obviously not true.

btw, here's what Motor Trend said about the R8's steering feel....

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/audi/r8/2015/
"Compared to its competitors it isn’t as fun to do drive due to its numb steering feel."

Motor Trend's comments are not surprising since newer cars almost universally have worse steering feel and the R8's all wheel drive is not your friend in this respect.

the first generation R8 doesn't need to be ground breaking, it's an incredible car. it carried on where the NSX left on and then some. it also easily outsold the original NSX in much less than half the time. do the math.

Higher popularity = Better product
lol

The popularity difference is mostly due to Honda's inept marketing of the Acura brand vs. Audi's brilliantly done marketing of recent years.

I only mentioned the groundbreaking and production count aspects because these factors tend to have a big influence on how well a car holds its value. Right now NSX values are going up and R8 values are going down. So to address the original poster's question, if you're planning to buy today then the NSX is likely the better investment. And when it comes time to sell your daily driven NSX nearly everyone is more comfortable buying a high millage Honda than they are a high millage Audi.

 

[95nsxtc]

1. The NSX has a more exotic driving position due to its noticeably lower cowl. Relatively speaking the R8 feels like you're sitting in a hole.

2. The NSX manual steering rack provides superior road feel. Many describe the R8 steering as being somewhat "numb".

3. The NSX weighs far less than the heavy R8, making it feel more nimble and tossable.

4. The NSX is likely more reliable and cheaper to maintain.

5. The NSX is rarer and more historically significant, making it likely to hold its value better. As good as the original R8 is, there was nothing groundbreaking about it.

2. Idk anyone who considers their R8 to have a numb feel. my NSX had a pretty numb feel to me, most everyone wants to talk about how great it is but in reality I was kind of disappointed. I think its funny bc we know of the compliance built in to absorb bumps through the steering, this is the exact practice of "numbing"

4. this part is probably pretty equal, the r8 is almost the same to maintain, only $5 a labor hour difference and parts are not that bad

- - - Updated - - -

btw, here's what Motor Trend said about the R8's steering feel....

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/audi/r8/2015/
"Compared to its competitors it isn’t as fun to do drive due to its numb steering feel."

Motor Trend's comments are not surprising since newer cars almost universally have worse steering feel and the R8's all wheel drive is not your friend in this respect.

whoever wrote this article was pretty high, first the numb comment, then it went to calling it a dramatic exterior vehicle and poor ride quality... they should be fired. theres nothing dramatic about the styling of it, mayb when sitting next to a 911 its a lil more and the car has magnetic suspension

finally, this is the least awd feeling vehicle of all the ones ive driven. acts much more like a rwd car thanks to the 80/20 split

 

[The King]

All of BB's comments ring true for me. My NSX fits my needs just fine. I have always believed Japanese vehicles offered the best overall package compared to American or European ones. In most cases Honda has done the best job of all in terms of style, performance, reliability, resale, etc. Never been a big fan of German cars, especially when they get older and turn into a bucket of expensive bolts. Having to go and get reamed on service at an overpriced snotty dealership had little appeal either.

An NSX has plenty of performance to get one in lots of trouble on the street. There are no decent tracks anywhere around here, so an R8 being quicker on a track means nothing to me. I think fataussie, while having better things to do in Hawaii, should buy the R8 he always wanted, and drive it home. Surely this amazing car must float, fly, or probably both. Once back in the promised land, you will have no more use for your miserable piece of crap Imola, so feel free to contact me and I'll take it off your hands. Obviously it will be going cheap as it is such an outdated, slow excuse of a car.

 

[95nsxtc]

All of BB's comments ring true for me. My NSX fits my needs just fine. I have always believed Japanese vehicles offered the best overall package compared to American or European ones. In most cases Honda has done the best job of all in terms of style, performance, reliability, resale, etc. Never been a big fan of German cars, especially when they get older and turn into a bucket of expensive bolts. Having to go and get reamed on service at an overpriced snotty dealership had little appeal either.

An NSX has plenty of performance to get one in lots of trouble on the street. There are no decent tracks anywhere around here, so an R8 being quicker on a track means nothing to me. I think fataussie, while having better things to do in Hawaii, should buy the R8 he always wanted, and drive it home. Surely this amazing car must float, fly, or probably both. Once back in the promised land, you will have no more use for your miserable piece of crap Imola, so feel free to contact me and I'll take it off your hands. Obviously it will be going cheap as it is such an outdated, slow excuse of a car.

Actually what I said was the R8 is quicker in everyway except possibly the track... and also all your comments are tru if we were in the 1990s. Ill place this bet now and forever on this forum that a new R8 or 488 will last longer and be cheaper to maintain than the new NSX. best packaging for a non front engine sports car currently - Porsche, although possibly McLaren jus stole this with the 570gt. also if we want to talk resale, the first year R8s in not abused shape have only lost 1/3 of their original value almost a decade later, dunno how the original NSX did but I will bet it didn't do nearly as well.

 

[The King]

I bought my car 4-5 years ago. Quite sure it's worth more than I paid for it now. I got it for less than half what it retailed for in Canada in 03, with 9000 miles on it. As for the new NSX, I wouldn't be putting too much money on that bet. I've only heard tell of one burning up so far, but I have seen pictures of numerous examples of the overpriced crap you're promoting.

 

[95nsxtc]

I bought my car 4-5 years ago. Quite sure it's worth more than I paid for it now. I got it for less than half what it retailed for in Canada in 03, with 9000 miles on it. As for the new NSX, I wouldn't be putting too much money on that bet. I've only heard tell of one burning up so far, but I have seen pictures of numerous examples of the overpriced crap you're promoting.

...every point you just tried to make is off from what I was talking about...

but you did just prove that I was right on one of the bets that I made already... you bought your 03 in 2011 or 2012 according to you, meaning that it depreciated by 1/2 with minimal miles on it in the same time frame I was referring to