Prime responsibility re Vendors

I dont get! :confused: Every comment ive ever read about MJ or Dali has something to do with being ripped or scammed. Ban this vendor! I found it amusing that when I saw his trader rating. 50 feedback points from one person? Come on, ban this guy. What are we waiting for? Seems almost dumb that not only do we let him post but sell his stuff here as well. :confused:
 
What boggles my mind is that other people here get banned for things they post. Which as verbally harmfull as they may be are not doing anything illegal. Dali, by receiving money and not providing a product, is outright stealing. As much as Lud would like to say we have no solid proof, we do know that a number of complaints have come from some very upstanding Prime members, some of whom I'm sure many here have met in person and could easily tell that they would not perpretrate a smear campaign against a vendor unless it was the last resort.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. This thread really is a thread about "what shall we do about Dali?", not all vendors here. This issue really is so cut and dry I fail to see why we must think any longer.... Dali's been doing this on and off what, at least two or three years? If that's the case, is it ok if I set up a p.o. box and start scamming members here? I obviously will not have any reprocussions, at least for a while. :rolleyes:
 
Regarding multiple feedback entries to a vendor's trader rating area... Even though a user can post an overwhelming volume of positive posts, his or her comments as numerous as they may be only count for one point.
 
NSXGeek! said:
Regarding multiple feedback entries to a vendor's trader rating area... Even though a user can post an overwhelming volume of positive posts, his or her comments as numerous as they may be only count for one point.
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No need to repeat things that were already mentioned in this thread - especialy by the administrator of this site in this post . Sometimes it's better to read before you post.
 
Can I ask a really dumb question?

Where is MJ during all this? If people were thrashing me all over the place; I would have at least something to say! No comments from him or his point of view? :confused:
 
BRIDGEWATER ACURA said:
Can I ask a really dumb question?

Where is MJ during all this? If people were thrashing me all over the place; I would have at least something to say! No comments from him or his point of view? :confused:
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I can't remember where I saw it, but someone posted an email in another thread (may have been from a long time ago) from MJ that shows his scorn for the people on this website or something to that effect. If I understand correctly, his policy is not to address anything on this site with regards to issues with him or his company.
 
BRIDGEWATER ACURA said:
Can I ask a really dumb question?

Where is MJ during all this? If people were thrashing me all over the place; I would have at least something to say! No comments from him or his point of view? :confused:
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That's actually a trait displayed by a lot of sociopaths such as con-men and thieves. They are often apathetic. They lack the sensitivitiy to the feelings of others, hence the rights of others are violated. They are egocentric, selfish and are usually free of anxiety, remorse, and guilt. In other words, they are so shameless that they don't give a crap about anyone. So they take your parts and money. You are angry and jumping up and down. Their attitude and responses: What's the problem? I am not in a hurry and why should you?
You know what. MJ does not bother me more than the people who continue to support him despite knowing damn well that he ripped off so many people. They are part of the reason why he can continue to victimize more and more people on Prime. "Hey, the guy always treated me right, he must be a good man!"
Steve
 
I think that policy (if true, and it appears to be) sucks. I would like nothing more than to see Lud apply the pressure he is able to, in order to see if Mark is willing to answer these poor people he has ripped off. I could care less if 999 people are thrilled with him, it's the one who is out money who I want to see helped. I do not expect you can make everyone happy, but the issue here is not customer dissatisfaction, as much as it seems to be thievery.
 
Like many of you I have been a frequent visitor of Prime for several years. I have kept my thoughts to myself for quite some time in hopes it was an isolated incident Again, I have never had a neg. experience w/ Dali. Not only did the complaints become more frequent but they were VERY MUCH the same types of complaints. What really annoys me is that he uses Prime to promote new ventures but yet fails to respond to the majority of his issues brought up on Prime. Lastly, he is very "smug" about these issues on his website and on Prime. I still believe he should be banned from Prime til' he addresses the issues publicly.

Jeff
 
comquat1 said:
If prime should stay out of disputes then why don't they just let this site become a free for all and not edit anything that posted? It makes good sense for Prime to run a "clean operation." To let this site get a reputation for "putting up with" a classless vendor does not reflect well on the the site. Other sites that allow vendors police the vendor forums as well. I know evolutionm.net did it with one guy who was badmouthing another vendor and was starting fights online when I was there with my evo). Why can't we call a spade a spade and deal with the problem, and I could be wrong, but there really is only one BIG problem at this site with regards to vendors and most (but not all evidently) know who it is.
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I must be the lucky one, because MJ has sent everythings I ordered from him promptly. I have also dealt with SoS,Nopi, and everyone has been good to me! I am blessed. :biggrin:
 
EIFFEL said:
I must be the lucky one, because MJ has sent everythings I ordered from him promptly. I have also dealt with SoS,Nopi, and everyone has been good to me! I am blessed. :biggrin:
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Congratulations! You must be in the 75% who are unaffected. However, there is still a higher than normal complaint rate with this vendor compared to others on this site.
 
On Honda-Tech and most other boards we leave a sticky thread where people man post their story on how they were scammed/people not to buy from. It's a service to the members and the website takes no responsibility for the validity of the reported information. Just like the rating system, it's up the the buyer to read the info and make the best decision. People get to post their stories all in the same thread so if someone wants to see a chain of behaviour they can get it all in one place. We usually sticky it in the vendor forum.

Or you could have a vendor dispute forum if you want a specific place for it and allow vendors to resolve or leave to see how they do customer service.
 
I guess the difference is, when someone has a beef with me (hopefully seldom :wink: ) I address it. I am on the board daily, and am available. Many other vendors do the same. Yet others could care less about all of the neg press here on Prime about them. Makes you almost feel as though they are lurking with a smirk. :mad:

I guess as the posts go on, people found out fast about SWR, and they learned. Others seem to be clueless. If I just bought an NSX today, and signed up asking where is a good place to buy a header, and 60/100 say company "A" and 39/100 say Company "B" and 1/100 says company "C" along with 99/100 who say NOT to buy from "C"

Wouldn't you think to buy from A or B? But yet people still buy from "C" and then complain when they get screwed.

Lud is correct, every great business will have some unfortunate customer relations, but for the most part, the great retailers here on Prime are top notch for such a low demand car. It is more "love of the NSX" that we are here, instead of getting rich as retailers.

Please continue to support legit NSX-specific retailers with good past customer feedback. We are here to help...
 
SNDSOUL said:
Why not run a poll on Dali: Ban or Stay? No explanations needed, just votes on whether Dali should be allowed to continue business on Prime. Let the majority rule either way.
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You'll probably end up with a majority voting to keep him. You have to remember, he's not sticking it to a super high percentage of customers, but more than enought people who've vocalized on this site to cause us to take pause about how he is conducting business.
 
Perhaps it should be handled like the Better Business Bureau does with it's members.
If someone wants to advertise on NSXPRIME they should be bound to private arbitration by a arbitration committee made of NSXPRIME members in the event of a unresolved dispute.
The decisions and outcomes should be private with suspension being levied on those who don't honor this stipulation.
Vendors AND claimants who have too many unfavorable rulings should be suspended.
The business and customer should have fairness, privacy and be bound by the arbitration board's decisions.
 
I'd like to pose a question. Let's say you searched any one of the major search engines like Google, and along with your results, you saw one of the paid advertisements in the results. You clicked through the advertisement and later conducted a transaction with that business that was advertised on Google. The transaction later goes south and you lose your money. What level of responsibility should Google have in this situation? What if you saw the ad on TV instead....should the TV station have any responsibility to the purchaser? What about radio, newspaper, road-side billboard, or any of the other countless mediums in which advertisements appear?

Why should NSXPrime be any different than any other medium in which advertisements appear? In my opinion it shouldn't. That said, I'd like to see a Buyers & Sellers feedback section added to Prime for both Private Sellers & Vendors. It is always up to the buyer to do their own due diligence, and the Feedback section would be a useful tool to enable them to do so.
 
Ncturnal said:
I'd like to pose a question. Let's say you searched any one of the major search engines like Google, and along with your results, you saw one of the paid advertisements in the results. You clicked through the advertisement and later conducted a transaction with that business that was advertised on Google. The transaction later goes south and you lose your money. What level of responsibility should Google have in this situation? What if you saw the ad on TV instead....should the TV station have any responsibility to the purchaser? What about radio, newspaper, road-side billboard, or any of the other countless mediums in which advertisements appear?

Why should NSXPrime be any different than any other medium in which advertisements appear? In my opinion it shouldn't. That said, I'd like to see a Buyers & Sellers feedback section added to Prime for both Private Sellers & Vendors. It is always up to the buyer to do their own due diligence, and the Feedback section would be a useful tool to enable them to do so.
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You forget one thing though. NSXprime has been a regulated site in that the moderator decides what can stay and what cannot in terms of postings by people (i.e. trouble makers, etc). Why would something so blantent as a vendor who takes advantage of not one, not two, not three, (how long must I go here?) but many many members on this site continue to be allowed to do business? Our site administrator has the power to but a severe kink in how this vendor does business and how he continues to treat nsxprime patrons who do not ask to be treated in such a way, how this pans out remains to be seen.
 
comquat1 said:
NSXprime has been a regulated site in that the moderator decides what can stay and what cannot in terms of postings by people (i.e. trouble makers, etc). Why would something so blantent as a vendor who takes advantage of not one, not two, not three, (how long must I go here?) but many many members on this site continue to be allowed to do business?
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The evidence against say a troll or troublemaker is more obvious and easier to act on since the admin could actually "see" what was going on. There is no way the admin could know all of the details of every transaction between a member and a site advertiser. He doesn't have the time, nor does he get paid to do so. Ultimately it is the buyer's responsibility. Lud seems interested in listening to your concerns, but he is also hearing two sides. With the particular vendor being discussed as the most problematic, a very half-assed search would reveal the problems others have had. I'm certainly not saying it makes it ok if you get screwed because I'm very much against that, but I don't think it's the administrator's job to police it. I wouldn't say he's completely looking the other way in this case, but he's heard reviews on both ends of the spectrum just like I have, although there are many bad reviews in this case.

Our site administrator has the power to but a severe kink in how this vendor does business and how he continues to treat nsxprime patrons who do not ask to be treated in such a way, how this pans out remains to be seen.
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The ultimate power to put a kink in how this vendor does business lies with the consumer. I understand your points and even agree to an extent. I had a situation similar to this on another board. I was extremely outspoken against the business practices of a particular vendor of that site. Even when presented with all of the evidence I gave people about that vendor, people still dealt with them, only to later get screwed. :confused: It is now common knowlege how that vendor conducts himself and very few deal with him. It took a long time for that to happen.

I understand both sides of the spectrum. I hate scammers and people who run shady businesses. The board I operate now has no sponsors so as to not affect free speech in any way that may discredit a sponsor. Unfortunately for me, the trade-off is that the site bills are all left for me to pay.

The whole situation sucks for everyone involved. Still though, regardless of the situation at hand, the administrators of this site are still providing a valuable service free of charge and can't be held responsible for the actions of everyone that happens to use it. While I hope they will help by adding the feedback section, I don't think they are responsible to do so.
 
Ncturnal said:
Why should NSXPrime be any different than any other medium in which advertisements appear? In my opinion it shouldn't. That said, I'd like to see a Buyers & Sellers feedback section added to Prime for both Private Sellers & Vendors. It is always up to the buyer to do their own due diligence, and the Feedback section would be a useful tool to enable them to do so.
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Because Prime is not just some big public sites that do advertisements. Prime is a community where people have a common interest in the NSX. We are friends that interact with each other in almost daily basis. We are here to enjoy the online companies. The contents, behaviors, and activities are self policed and also monitored by the owner and moderators. Behaviors deemed inappropriate get reprimanded. So it is all along the administrator's responsibilities to determine what stays and goes. People get banned for being obnoxious, trolls, derrogatory, and many other inappropriate activities. In fact, the ONLY vendor that have been habitually being accused of stealing and ditching has been you know who. We are not even talking about disputes here since most of these cases are just clear cut internet frauds. I am sure the accusers are not making these up since a lot of them are respectable members here and the patterns are pretty much the same stuff. I understand that Lud wants to keep this site a high class establishment by banning profanities, nudities, pornography, and so on. But why are thefts and frauds allowed? I bought a clutch from a Prime member more than a year ago. The seller was slow in shipping and left the country. I did not receive the clutch 2 weeks after I paid and the seller never returned my numerous emails. I raised the concern on Prime. Everyone was jumping up and down trying to locate the seller and the moderators were about to suspend him. The clutch finally came and everyone was relieved. The reactions I got was something that I expected from a group of upstanding and concerned pals. But when the same craps from Dali come up, Mark Johnson continues to conduct his fradulent acts as usual. I wholeheartedly support Prime for all the hardworks Lud and his team have done to keep this site such high standard. But I have to give it a thumbs down for how Dali is allowed to continue to perpetrate.
Steve
 
I'm limited by my inexperience in dealing directly with most of the individuals you mention, but I definitely see your point. When respected members of my boards voice concerns such as these, I'm quick to investigate. I am taking a sort of neutral position here because I am sort of an outsider with this community with no vested interest either way.
 
whiteNSXs said:
Because Prime is not just some big public sites that do advertisements. Prime is a community
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That's exactly what I thought this place was. But so far it's only a community up to a certain point, then you're on your own I guess, at least with Dali.
 

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