Opinions on NSX market values

[dirtbag]

.... I look at the NSX peers as the 300zx, 3000gt vr4, rx7, and Supra. All those cars can be had all day for 15-25k.......

I have to agree with you on this, however you say bubble, I say some of those are undervalued. After searching several sources, here's what I've noticed with GOOD to excellent condition unmolested recently sold examples and my personal opinion:
~$18-20k 3000GT VR4 **VERY undervalued**
~$12-15k 300zx twin turbo **undervalued**
~$22-25k RX7 **slightly under valued**
~$38-45k Twin Turbo Supra **about right, maybe a bit high with the one that sold for 45k**

You also have to take into account pricing when new ranged $33-45k, whereas the NSX was a whopping $60k. So according to the recently sold listings of *unmodified* classic 90's sports cars that puts the NSX as also slightly undervalued even at a $40k sellers price.

Jalopnik likes to play a game called "you can have a **insert classic car here** for the price of a new base model bla bla" Personally I'd take any one of these 90's sports cars over a brand new Miata or FRS, which is in the mid-high 20's... By the time taxes, fees, registration, insurance will make a new sports car vehicle over 30k. After driving all types of new cars, I almost always prefer the cars from the 90's. It's much more satisfying driving experience. Today it's much easier to get a loan on a classic car (+10 years old), whereas previously it was nearly impossible, this raises classic car values and adds stability into the market.

Earlier you mentioned a newer C6 (I think) for the price of an NSX, but in my opinion that's a different beast.. In that case you can have Viper for about the same price of a C6, and it's waaaay more exotic. The C6 is still on a downward value trend while the Viper is going up. So if you want something in that area it'd be smart to pick up a Viper, play with it for a few years, sell it for some profit, then pick up a C6 & a GT500 (which they should be nearly fully depreciated by then) and repeat. If you play the game right you'll be able to essentially keep driving some pretty sweet cars and never take a hit with depreciation.

 

[boca rat]

Sorry, all this Vette talk is making me gag. WHO CARES? They have made 1.5 million plus. Same for Mustangs. WHO CARES what a great deal it is and how a Z06 will blow the doors off an NSX at the track? I see a Z06 every time I drive for more than 30 minutes. For the last time. WHO CARES? If all you want is bang for the buck, you are so in the wrong forum it's not funny. I'd rather drive my 16 year old 540i/6 than any Vette. End of rant. Thanks for listening. Good night.

 

[Jinks]

Sorry, all this Vette talk is making me gag. WHO CARES? They have made 1.5 million plus. Same for Mustangs. WHO CARES what a great deal it is and how a Z06 will blow the doors off an NSX at the track? I see a Z06 every time I drive for more than 30 minutes. For the last time. WHO CARES? If all you want is bang for the buck, you are so in the wrong forum it's not funny. I'd rather drive my 16 year old 540i/6 than any Vette. End of rant. Thanks for listening. Good night.

I like your views. However, the nsx is far more bang for the buck being its lightyears behind on an engineerial status.
But I'm with you. Had many big block v8's growing up and I always loved Japanese performance for its refinery.

 

[Andr3w]

I have to agree with you on this, however you say bubble, I say some of those are undervalued. After searching several sources, here's what I've noticed with GOOD to excellent condition unmolested recently sold examples and my personal opinion:
~$18-20k 3000GT VR4 **VERY undervalued**
~$12-15k 300zx twin turbo **undervalued**
~$22-25k RX7 **slightly under valued**
~$38-45k Twin Turbo Supra **about right, maybe a bit high with the one that sold for 45k**

You also have to take into account pricing when new ranged $33-45k, whereas the NSX was a whopping $60k. So according to the recently sold listings of *unmodified* classic 90's sports cars that puts the NSX as also slightly undervalued even at a $40k sellers price.

Jalopnik likes to play a game called "you can have a **insert classic car here** for the price of a new base model bla bla" Personally I'd take any one of these 90's sports cars over a brand new Miata or FRS, which is in the mid-high 20's... By the time taxes, fees, registration, insurance will make a new sports car vehicle over 30k. After driving all types of new cars, I almost always prefer the cars from the 90's. It's much more satisfying driving experience. Today it's much easier to get a loan on a classic car (+10 years old), whereas previously it was nearly impossible, this raises classic car values and adds stability into the market.

Earlier you mentioned a newer C6 (I think) for the price of an NSX, but in my opinion that's a different beast.. In that case you can have Viper for about the same price of a C6, and it's waaaay more exotic. The C6 is still on a downward value trend while the Viper is going up. So if you want something in that area it'd be smart to pick up a Viper, play with it for a few years, sell it for some profit, then pick up a C6 & a GT500 (which they should be nearly fully depreciated by then) and repeat. If you play the game right you'll be able to essentially keep driving some pretty sweet cars and never take a hit with depreciation.

Aaron you've added some spice to our otherwise bland but intelligent discussion on NSX pricing.

First, the NSX was never built to compete with any of the cars that you call its peers. It was hand built to compete with Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche. And it turned out to be better than those cars though it didn't have the great history that those Euro manufacturers have earned.

Second, the person that got me into the idea of actually trying to own an NSX is a Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes owner as well and has owned and sold several Euro exotics over the years. The only car that he will not sell is his 91 NSX which he bought new and now has 307K miles on it. That said a lot to me about how special this car is. But wait there is more... I like to take my NSX to car meets around our area (Texas has a very active car community pretty much state wide.) and I can't count the times that someone with a much more expensive exotic has approached me saying either they used to own an NSX and are kicking themselves for not keeping it or they've always wanted one and/or are actively looking for one. These guys can afford almost any car yet they pine for an NSX.

Yes a lot of today's cars will out perform an NSX for about the same money. But what you will never understand, until you drive an NSX on a nice curvy road or at speed on a race course, is that it's not about the HP numbers or the straight line speed. It's about the emotion that you feel when you drive the car close to it's limits and that none of the cars you listed as the NSXs peers can keep up with it in the curves. BTW, as a car guy, I happen to like all of the cars you listed and have driven or ridden in all of them but the Noble.

Your talk about taking the emotion out of the equation in this discussion just shows that you are not a true car enthusiast. Cars, whether for daily use, racing or collecting have always been about emotion from the second we get behind the wheel for the first time. The guy with ugliest, retina burning, beater is just as proud and emotional about his car as the billionaire with the LaFerrari in his garage. Are we biased on this forum? Yes we are. But, most of us have driven and owned many cars from muscle and exotics to borderline ricers. So we came to this bias through experience. If you've joined our forum because you own an NSX or are looking for one...welcome.

Very professional and subjective responses. Kudos to you guys.

 

[tof]

Sorry, all this Vette talk is making me gag. WHO CARES? They have made 1.5 million plus. Same for Mustangs. WHO CARES what a great deal it is and how a Z06 will blow the doors off an NSX at the track? I see a Z06 every time I drive for more than 30 minutes. For the last time. WHO CARES? If all you want is bang for the buck, you are so in the wrong forum it's not funny. I'd rather drive my 16 year old 540i/6 than any Vette. End of rant. Thanks for listening. Good night.

Who cares? I do. So does anyone who loves specific cars for what they are, what they can do, and how they make the driver feel. Where does rarity fit into that equation? Is a Z06 undesirable simply because GM made a lot of them? The fact that a certain model is rare says nothing about it's intrinsic goodness. While rarity certainly affects price, for me its contribution to desirability is minimal.

I'm not saying that "rare" should not be valued. Owning a rare good car is more satisfying for most of us than owning a common good car. But had I the means, my 20 car garage would probably house a Z06...and a Viper...along with most of the other cars mentioned in this thread.

dirtbag, I couldn't agree more with your valuation analysis, especially with regards to the 300ZX turbo. When introduced, it was arguably one of the best two-seat gt's on the planet, depending on how you keep score, and certainly the best in its price range. I would love to find a low mileage pristine example for less than $20K. But to your other point, comparing 90s sports cars to affordable new sporty cars: The new cars do have one huge thing going for them--a bumper to bumper warranty. For many this is a real swing factor. And from a pure "goodness" standpoint, the new Miata has me thinking, too.

 

[MCM]

Its all perspective. I sold a Corvette 10 yrs ago and bought my NSX and a new 05 RX350 with the cash.
And had a little left over.
And I really don't know what NSX's actually sold for when new. 91's were 60k, 05's about 90k.
Also did anyone actually pay 60k for a 91? I recall silly markups for the privilege when introduced.
But orig dealer selling price has little to do with current value of certain cars. Unless your young
and have had limited exposure to great cars. I wonder if todays 1955 Gullwing buyers are compairing 0-60 times to 1955 Belair's?
Or new Vette's? See how stupid that sounds..........Fun stuff.

 

[The King]

05's in Canada were 140K in case you think 90k is a lot.

 

[Yinzer]

For those hoping to see values keep rising and stay propped up by today's youth who will undoubtedly start to see the NSX for the overlooked gem it really was...watch the 1:55 to 2:30 portion of this video. Don't buy that yacht yet.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9UKsjwb793o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

The 2:14 to 2:27 segments are brought to you by Ritalin.

@Arista - don't worry too much about what you see at the 3:22 mark. I'm sure the ropes around the cars were electrified.

 

[boca rat]

And I really don't know what NSX's actually sold for when new. 91's were 60k, 05's about 90k.
Also did anyone actually pay 60k for a 91? I recall silly markups for the privilege when introduced.

I have the original dealer invoice for my recently acquired 91 and it was $91k I think.

 

[tof]

Yinz, that is kind of hilarious. But I'm not worried. It's a really small sample size and the kids do respect the right cars for the most part.

 

[Yinzer]

Yinz, that is kind of hilarious. But I'm not worried. It's a really small sample size and the kids do respect the right cars for the most part.

In the big picture I agree - enough others are now discovering where we've lived for years, resulting in a flurry of recent great magazine/internet articles, YouTube videos, and real buyers pushing prices up 10%+ from 2 years ago. I'm certainly not worried about any depreciation one bit, but I still think way more of the masses need to really "get it" for NSX values to stay up or go beyond any current bubble.

Does any other guy here remember that first time around age 40 that you realized you crossed over into being invisible to anyone of the opposite sex under 30? Suddenly you became "Mr. Last Name" way more often than mister "hey there!" IMHO the NSX is still virtually invisible to all but a relatively small group, even to those who like cars. Beavis & Butthead entertainingly illustrated that well above... NSX = you, when you visit your child at college and stroll along the university sidewalks, even if you're a 40 y/o divorced successful banker (virtually invisible, which isn't a bad think for a 40 year old on a college campus). Any Ferrari/Porsche = George Clooney, who gets invited by the sorority to visit their dorm in any college in America, even if he's married and with a bum knee; has that X factor which will likely never recede.

I followed online the Simeone supercars show hoping to see some nice coverage featuring of the NSX, but instead there seemed to be one token NSX photo for every 3-4 of other cars, even in Simeone's instagram feed.

I often don't know how well (or if) my joking is interpreted as being the non-confrontational kidding around it's meant to be, but: I'm not hating one bit nor disagreeing with any thoughts above for likely further appreciation. I just think (and kind of even hope, in a way) that any major appreciation (to the point that it starts making me want to question driving and putting on more miles) is unlikely based more on demand than supply, and is at best many years away!

 

[tof]

Yinz, your posts are always received in the spirit in which you post them, as far as I know. Only time will tell if we are in a bubble at the moment or if we have reached a new plateau in pricing...or if perhaps we are in the midst of an accent of Porschian proportions. I will say this. Given the reasonably limited supply, it doesn't take too much demand to keep prices where they are. And based on the reaction I get to my car when I take it out, I would say the demand is there. Of course those of us fortunate enough to own Imola Orange Pearl or (*ahem*) Grand Prix White NSXs enjoy cars that are extremely rare and/or in high demand. (Same goes for anything in blue or purple...and maybe green...and yellow...don't forget yellow...I did say rare OR in high demand. So basically not black, red, or some shade of silver. Although come to think of it, silver is popular and red is iconic. So basically anything that is not black. Hmmm. )

By the way, I couldn't really appreciate the analogy to being 40 as I am unable to conjure up any memories from those days.

 

[Accel Junky]

So basically anything that is not black.

As an owner of 3 (past and current) black NSXs, I take great offense.

 

[tof]

As the owner of a 91 bb, so do I.

 

[boca rat]

As the owner of a 91 bb, so do I.

2 BBs right now, so +1, or +2, can't decide! Although to be honest, total coincidence. First was anything but red or white, second just happened to come up locally and fit my spec but not sure I would have bought a red one.

 

[Spa2KJT]

tof, thank you for showing us yellow NSX owners some love. Everytime I am out, I cannot tell you how many thumbs up I get from other motorists. Part of me thinks it's because of the color equally as much as the car!

 

[tof]

tof, thank you for showing us yellow NSX owners some love. Everytime I am out, I cannot tell you how many thumbs up I get from other motorists. Part of me thinks it's because of the color equally as much as the car!

The problem with yellow pearl NSXs and S2000s is they don't photograph all that well. The good thing is they look absolutely spectacular in direct sunlight.

 

[Spa2KJT]

How about in the garage? No matter what the light, I think the color is stunning. Spa Yellow is great, and although I am not lucky enough to have it, Rio Yellow is on another level IMO..

 

[nsxvtecvtec]

After looking through the last few pages of for sale posts it looks like cars are not selling as quickly as they were last year.

Also, just a quick look through the last year or more of ebay threads makes it seem like cars are not selling (unsold) and there are many, many relistings for the same cars. Now...maybe they are getting sold outside of ebay...who knows.

However, looking through a lot of Porsche-related forum for sale posts, I have noticed (anecdotally) a larger percentage of cars getting sold. I wonder if all of the media hype for the NSX collect-ability, the somewhat majority disappointment in the new NSX, and the hot collector car market in general are fueling higher listing prices...yet without the timely sales expected? After all, with Porsche we do know for a fact that all non-GT models are going turbo very soon and that could be driving the NA Porsche market.

agree with you.

I have paid my attention to the market in the past 2 years. some cars are not selling due to its condition and asking price. however, a mint condition nsx will be sold quickly unless seller asking for 100k or more.

 

[Z06nsxcts]

Am I missing something?

I browsed Autotrader and found only 38 for sale with manual transmissions. One third of them were asking over 65,000. There is one listed over 100,000. Not sure if people are throwing prices up to see who grabs. There has definitely been an upswing of prices since the new one was introduced but it would be interesting to see what these actually sell for.


MC


2015 Jaguar F-type R Coupe
1996 Acura NSX-T
1995 Mazda Miata #34

 

[pmauney1970]

would love an opinion on market value range for a 1991 Black on black NSX. 92k miles. everything is orginal. have the book and the tin that all the sales material came with. have been told i will need a new clutch soon(it has the orginal ). radio speakers dont work (door speakers squel and the middle one works) but everything else is in above average condition. Guy who is a car nut is telling me he thinks the car is work 20k but will take 5k to replace clutch, fix speakers, and do other maintaince to get the car to top shelf condition. he is trying to buy it for 15k. i have not clue if this is a fair value or not? thanks in advance for the input.

 

[anesthesia]

would love an opinion on market value range for a 1991 Black on black NSX. 92k miles. everything is orginal. have the book and the tin that all the sales material came with. have been told i will need a new clutch soon(it has the orginal ). radio speakers dont work (door speakers squel and the middle one works) but everything else is in above average condition. Guy who is a car nut is telling me he thinks the car is work 20k but will take 5k to replace clutch, fix speakers, and do other maintaince to get the car to top shelf condition. he is trying to buy it for 15k. i have not clue if this is a fair value or not? thanks in advance for the input.

That would be a NO, from what you told us, your car is not worth 15k or 20k but $28-30k as is now all day, everyday. Assuming you need clutch, TB/WP, all hoses and small things here and there add another ~$5500-6k to bring maintenance upto date for new buyer.

 

[Accel Junky]

would love an opinion on market value range for a 1991 Black on black NSX. 92k miles. everything is orginal. have the book and the tin that all the sales material came with. have been told i will need a new clutch soon(it has the orginal ). radio speakers dont work (door speakers squel and the middle one works) but everything else is in above average condition. Guy who is a car nut is telling me he thinks the car is work 20k but will take 5k to replace clutch, fix speakers, and do other maintaince to get the car to top shelf condition. he is trying to buy it for 15k. i have not clue if this is a fair value or not? thanks in advance for the input.

Don't do it! That guy is trying to take you to the cleaners. Try in the $30k's all day. Lots of NSXs for sale don't have a fresh TB/WP so that's going to be a common theme for buyers. The clutch will definitely need to be replaced. Speakers are common problems, probably not going to slow down most potential buyers.

 

[tof]

I'll chirp in and say 27-28K assuming there is 4-6K maintenance needed. Lots of other things probably could use attending to such as coolant hoses, window regulators, ABS, climate control computer, etc. Those things do add up. And the appearance of things like the seats, engine bay, paint, and interior trim will affect the price. But the offer of $15K is a joke.

- - - Updated - - -

The new Hagerty valuations are out on https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/valuationtools/. These are updated every May, Sept, and January with prices from the previous four months. (They are dated April, August, and December). NSX prices are UP, at least for 1991's.

Condition 4 - $24,500 UP $4,500
Condition 3 - $33,100 UP $2,900
Condition 2 - $42,400 UP $2,600
Condition 1 - $60,600 UP $8,300 !!!

Some caveats: The condition scale does not take into account mileage, at least not directly. A higher mileage correctly refreshed example might be valued close to a much lower mileage example. Pricing may not take into consideration other things like currency of maintenance, documentation of maintenance history, etc.

Also, prices for 91's were flat last update, possibly due to lack of data for the period, so this period's sharp increases should really be spread over eight months rather than four.

About condition: most people estimate their cars to be at least one rung higher on the condition scale than Hagerty analysts would likely classify it upon inspection.

Still, these are strong prices for first year NSX's and the trend for 91 prices continues to be "up". In setting valuations, Hagerty looks at all kinds of transactions including auctions, private sales, dealer sales, and advertised asking prices. The last can obviously inflate the average but Hagerty implies in an illustration here that it is the least significant factor in their overall valuation. Also Hagerty implies that they consider the vast amount of data they have on insured value. But as we all know, insurance values typically run around 10% above retail. You can find more on Hagerty's pricing methodology here...
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/About-our-prices

 

[pmauney1970]

thanks for the help. im not a car guy at all--the car was a gift from my parents for graduating college and it was my main car for about 6 years. i bet i have only put 500 miles on the car in the last 7 yrs