Opinions on NSX market values

[anesthesia]

"After looking through the last few pages of for sale posts it looks like cars are not selling as quickly as they were last year."

its very likely the people selling them are pricing it on the upper end, most of these cars sit on the market for awhile if price too high. The way I see it, the higher the prices listed for these Nsx the better advantage in terms of appreciation for the guys who owns one, sucks if your looking for one though. NSX prices will continue to rise, all I can say is get in guys before it gets to be like the Porsche 993 turbo

 

[tof]

"After looking through the last few pages of for sale posts it looks like cars are not selling as quickly as they were last year."

its very likely the people selling them are pricing it on the upper end, most of these cars sit on the market for awhile if price too high. The way I see it, the higher the prices listed for these Nsx the better advantage in terms of appreciation for the guys who owns one, sucks if your looking for one though. NSX prices will continue to rise, all I can say is get in guys before it gets to be like the Porsche 993 turbo

I would want to see some hard numbers before I would be ready to say that sales are slowing. If they are, I agree with anesthesia that one factor could be asking prices. With all the current hype, a lot of NSXs are probably coming onto the market with "feeler" pricing. I wouldn't sell mine for 28K right now but if someone offered me 35, I'd have to think about it. But of course my car wouldn't last 10 minutes on the market at 28K but if I advertised it for 35, it would probably stay in my garage for some time.

Regarding price trends, there are only a handful of models that have gone through 993 type price escalation. I don't see that happening with NSX's any time in the next decade or two. But I do think prices will continue to rise. Of course my opinion about the future is worth about as much as everyone else's. Predicting the future of the stock market is hard. Predicting the future of collector car pricing is impossible. If history has shown anything at all it's that nobody knows nothing.

 

[BlackTop99]

After looking through the last few pages of for sale posts it looks like cars are not selling as quickly as they were last year.

Also, just a quick look through the last year or more of ebay threads makes it seem like cars are not selling (unsold) and there are many, many relistings for the same cars. Now...maybe they are getting sold outside of ebay...who knows.

However, looking through a lot of Porsche-related forum for sale posts, I have noticed (anecdotally) a larger percentage of cars getting sold. I wonder if all of the media hype for the NSX collect-ability, the somewhat majority disappointment in the new NSX, and the hot collector car market in general are fueling higher listing prices...yet without the timely sales expected? After all, with Porsche we do know for a fact that all non-GT models are going turbo very soon and that could be driving the NA Porsche market.

As someone who has kept very close to the sales on the market, I would say you are comparing different markets. I would also say that the NSX market is every bit as robust today as it has been for the past 18 months that I've been watching it. Any car priced reasonably sells VERY quickly. Look at the Kaiser one that was listed last week @ $49K. That car was effectively "sold" in less than 6 hours and had it been priced at $52k, it would have sold just as fast IMO. There are A LOT of people out there hunting for unmolested NSXs. Part of the issue right now is that our generation of cars (993's etc) are turning over into collectors hands. You find me an unmolested NSX in half decent shape and I'll show you a car that will sell in under 48 hours if priced even somewhat reasonably.

Here's my easy guide for selling in this market.
Assumptions are as follows:
Car is stock to mostly stock (bolt-ons only and orig. parts are included)
Miles of 50k plus or minus 10K
Paint in 7+/10 condition
No STRUCTURAL/FRAME damage (oddly, anything cosmetics ie respray bumpers etc don't seem to affect value much at all)
All maintenance verifiable and up to date
If those GENERAL parameters check out, here's where your car will sell in TODAY'S market
1991 - $43K- $46K
1992-94 - $42K-$45K
1995-96 - $44K-$46K
1997-1999 - $49K-$53K (bump for bigger engine currently very apparent)
Zanardis - I have not seen a transaction in the past 18 months, but if I were forced to take a stab, I would guess you are either side of six figures
2000-2001 - $51K-$54K
NA2 Coupes - Not many out there, but I would say a $5K+ premium currently (only 2 observable transactions over the past 18 months) And yes, I'm doing my best to keep my own bias out of the analysis.
2002+ - $60K-$65K (this market is a bit all over the place due to both newness in age, low volume production and milage ranges being generally lowers) My confidence in my pricing here is admittedly lower.

**EDIT: Auto trans get a $3K/$5K discount across the board

Ebay has been a terrible proxy for a number of reasons as well. The asking pricing are generally out of whack with real-world transactions. The quality and history on the cars listed have been dodgy and questionable. Again, generally speaking. Another difference is the sheer number of NSXs out there vs the 993 market. There are simply fewer NSXs for sale at any given time.

That being said, the NSX still faces the same bias as it did in the 90's. Many people will go for the Porsche/Ferrari because the brand desirability is just that much stronger despite any rational argument we can make. You don't need to explain to anyone in the world what a Ferrari is. Outside of the auto enthusiast community, you'll have to explain the what and why for the NSX. Eventually, I'd like to believe that the awareness of why the NSX is an historically important milestone in the evolution and influence of all future sports cars and it will get it's due.

Really hope this is helpful to guys out there looking to buy or sell. I believe that having cars actually transact is much healthier for our market than just having ever increasing asking prices on cars that don't move. It just discourages people. And, as always, happy to chat off the boards with anyone looking for more granular details on a car they are looking @ to buy or sell.

 

[blue_myriddn]

 

[vivanshah]

Here's my easy guide for selling in this market.
Assumptions are as follows:
Car is stock to mostly stock (bolt-ons only and orig. parts are included)
Miles of 50k plus or minus 10K
Paint in 7+/10 condition
No STRUCTURAL/FRAME damage (oddly, anything cosmetics ie respray bumpers etc don't seem to affect value much at all)
All maintenance verifiable and up to date
If those GENERAL parameters check out, here's where your car will sell in TODAY'S market
1991 - $43K- $46K
1992-94 - $42K-$45K
1995-96 - $44K-$46K
1997-1999 - $49K-$53K (bump for bigger engine currently very apparent)
Zanardis - I have not seen a transaction in the past 18 months, but if I were forced to take a stab, I would guess you are either side of six figures
2000-2001 - $51K-$54K
NA2 Coupes - Not many out there, but I would say a $5K+ premium currently (only 2 observable transactions over the past 18 months) And yes, I'm doing my best to keep my own bias out of the analysis.
2002+ - $60K-$65K (this market is a bit all over the place due to both newness in age, low volume production and milage ranges being generally lowers) My confidence in my pricing here is admittedly lower.

I watched the market & recorded sale prices for 2 years before buying, you are spot on with your numbers, they match up well with mine.

 

[jmarksnsx]

As someone who has kept very close to the sales on the market, I would say you are comparing different markets. I would also say that the NSX market is every bit as robust today as it has been for the past 18 months that I've been watching it. Any car priced reasonably sells VERY quickly. Look at the Kaiser one that was listed last week @ $49K. That car was effectively "sold" in less than 6 hours and had it been priced at $52k, it would have sold just as fast IMO. There are A LOT of people out there hunting for unmolested NSXs. Part of the issue right now is that our generation of cars (993's etc) are turning over into collectors hands. You find me an unmolested NSX in half decent shape and I'll show you a car that will sell in under 48 hours if priced even somewhat reasonably.

Here's my easy guide for selling in this market.
Assumptions are as follows:
Car is stock to mostly stock (bolt-ons only and orig. parts are included)
Miles of 50k plus or minus 10K
Paint in 7+/10 condition
No STRUCTURAL/FRAME damage (oddly, anything cosmetics ie respray bumpers etc don't seem to affect value much at all)
All maintenance verifiable and up to date
If those GENERAL parameters check out, here's where your car will sell in TODAY'S market
1991 - $43K- $46K
1992-94 - $42K-$45K
1995-96 - $44K-$46K
1997-1999 - $49K-$53K (bump for bigger engine currently very apparent)
Zanardis - I have not seen a transaction in the past 18 months, but if I were forced to take a stab, I would guess you are either side of six figures
2000-2001 - $51K-$54K
NA2 Coupes - Not many out there, but I would say a $5K+ premium currently (only 2 observable transactions over the past 18 months) And yes, I'm doing my best to keep my own bias out of the analysis.
2002+ - $60K-$65K (this market is a bit all over the place due to both newness in age, low volume production and milage ranges being generally lowers) My confidence in my pricing here is admittedly lower.

**EDIT: Auto trans get a $3K/$5K discount across the board

Ebay has been a terrible proxy for a number of reasons as well. The asking pricing are generally out of whack with real-world transactions. The quality and history on the cars listed have been dodgy and questionable. Again, generally speaking. Another difference is the sheer number of NSXs out there vs the 993 market. There are simply fewer NSXs for sale at any given time.

That being said, the NSX still faces the same bias as it did in the 90's. Many people will go for the Porsche/Ferrari because the brand desirability is just that much stronger despite any rational argument we can make. You don't need to explain to anyone in the world what a Ferrari is. Outside of the auto enthusiast community, you'll have to explain the what and why for the NSX. Eventually, I'd like to believe that the awareness of why the NSX is an historically important milestone in the evolution and influence of all future sports cars and it will get it's due.

Really hope this is helpful to guys out there looking to buy or sell. I believe that having cars actually transact is much healthier for our market than just having ever increasing asking prices on cars that don't move. It just discourages people. And, as always, happy to chat off the boards with anyone looking for more granular details on a car they are looking @ to buy or sell.

$48.5 for my '97 NSX-T 6 speed with less than 39K miles wasn't so bad afterall. :smile:

 

[BlackTop99]

$48.5 for my '97 NSX-T 6 speed with less than 39K miles wasn't so bad afterall. :smile:

Well, all depends on WHEN you bought it, right? If you paid that in the last 2-3 months, I's say you got a pretty nice deal.

I would venture a guess that you bought the car between 12-16 months ago? That's where the market for that car might have been around then....

 

[jmarksnsx]

Well, all depends on WHEN you bought it, right? If you paid that in the last 2-3 months, I's say you got a pretty nice deal.

I would venture a guess that you bought the car between 12-16 months ago? That's where the market for that car might have been around then....

You are spot on. I bought it a little over a year ago. I used the price for a Hagerty #2 car which was $48.5K at the time. A #2 1997 NSX-T has gone up to $52K I think.....

 

[BlackTop99]

You are spot on. I bought it a little over a year ago. I used the price for a Hagerty #2 car which was $48.5K at the time. A #2 1997 NSX-T has gone up to $52K I think.....

Haggerty has it's issues as well, but generally, it's OK. Works a lot better for higher volume cars as well as higher profile cars. We aren't there yet on either count. I'm relatively certain that my data set is more complete than theirs is for the last 2 year period.

 

[tof]

...If those GENERAL parameters check out, here's where your car will sell in TODAY'S market
1991 - $43K- $46K

I assume this was a typo and you meant 33-36K. If you meant 43-46, I will sell you mine for 35. It has 87K but otherwise meets your criteria.

 

[neoprufrok]

I assume this was a typo and you meant 33-36K. If you meant 43-46, I will sell you mine for 35. It has 87K but otherwise meets your criteria.

He said 50k miles +/- 10k miles. Or else I overpaid at 55k for my 1991 NSX with 14k miles.

 

[BlackTop99]

I assume this was a typo and you meant 33-36K. If you meant 43-46, I will sell you mine for 35. It has 87K but otherwise meets your criteria.

I'm not in the market for another NSX at the moment, but if you are serious and your car does fit the criteria (other than miles), your inbox should be full right about now.

 

[tof]

He said 50k miles +/- 10k miles. Or else I overpaid at 55k for my 1991 NSX with 14k miles.

There is a HUGE value difference between an average mileage car (40-60K) and one with less than 15K. The latter gets a big value bump for rarity. Low mileage 91s don't come along very often after all. To me, 55 is the upper end of the price range for a 91 Sebring even with the low mileage, but I don't think the price is unreasonable.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not in the market for another NSX at the moment, but if you are serious and your car does fit the criteria (other than miles), your inbox should be full right about now.

Strangely, only one new message in my in box today. That for an intake manifold cover I have for sale.

For now, my car is safe from sales temptation as long as I am looking in the mid 30s.

 

[Aaron91RS]

I think they're on a speculation bubble. Early cars could be had for 20-25k just a year or two ago are now 30-40k. Later models are asking 50 and 60k. Sorry that's new c7 corvette money that outperforms and NSX in everyway.
I look at the NSX peers as the 300zx, 3000gt vr4, rx7, and Supra. All those cars can be had all day for 15-25k. So this much price separation causes me to think bubble. Even a 350hp rear engine twin turbo v6 Noble which has the engine in the back and sits low like and NSX isn't going for 60k.
Now I'm sure I made all the owners mad but that's my 2 cents.

 

[RPM217]

I think they're on a speculation bubble. Early cars could be had for 20-25k just a year or two ago are now 30-40k. Later models are asking 50 and 60k. Sorry that's new c7 corvette money that outperforms and NSX in everyway.
I look at the NSX peers as the 300zx, 3000gt vr4, rx7, and Supra. All those cars can be had all day for 15-25k. So this much price separation causes me to think bubble. Even a 350hp rear engine twin turbo v6 Noble which has the engine in the back and sits low like and NSX isn't going for 60k.
Now I'm sure I made all the owners mad but that's my 2 cents.

You just join Prime, don't have a NSX, obviously coming in with comments like above, are not going to win you many friends on this forum. Get your flame suit ready.

 

[blue_myriddn]

I think they're on a speculation bubble. Early cars could be had for 20-25k just a year or two ago are now 30-40k. Later models are asking 50 and 60k. Sorry that's new c7 corvette money that outperforms and NSX in everyway.

Entirely valid and that may be. Car sales prices in general are at a pretty high mark with low interest rates and an economy that is doing well. Either of those things changing could really alter the dynamics. The NSX is still very young to be a "collector" car - I'd say it has another 5-10yrs to go before that happens and perhaps even longer.

I look at the NSX peers as the 300zx, 3000gt vr4, rx7, and Supra.

I am not sure you will sway many people with that logic though. The NSX is a notable step up from any in that list.

 

[JD Cross]

I look at the NSX peers as the 300zx, 3000gt vr4, rx7, and Supra. All those cars can be had all day for 15-25k.

There is a very large difference between a mid-engine car with limited production volumes and those that you mention above.
That will explain the price differential.
If you believe NSX's are overvalued then you should stay away from them.
Perhaps you should snap up a value priced Supra or RX-7?

 

[Aaron91RS]

We all have emotional attachments to the cars we own so that makes them worth more in our eyes. If someone is buying one though they don't own it so they may cross shop various cars, At which point they probably compare them on things like looks(subjective) or a measurable performance metric. Stock for stock from a numbers standpoint can you justify an NSX being that different then the others?

And rare doesn't mean hard to find in this case, they are all over ebay and here for sale because people realized what they were and preserved them. There's probably more NSX's on ebay then 99 vr4's or lastgen rx7's. Again not trying to piss people off just taking the emotion out of it. At the moment they are worth a lot though because that's what people are willing to pay, so hey if you're a seller it's a great time!

 

[blue_myriddn]

Stock for stock from a numbers standpoint can you justify an NSX being that different then the others?

That is an easy game to play.

- All aluminum construction aka rust avoidance. This is a big one compared to the cars you are listing - many of which have rusted away.
- Reliable electronics. I have a soft spot for 300zs - but I wouldn't touch one given the shoddy electrical problems. It isn't quite Lucas electrics, but it is close
- Mid engine weight distribution. The RX7 is a nice handling car, but not *as* nice as the NSX. The others feel clunky on twisty roads compared to a NSX
- cockpit view
- exotic status. Maybe some day the other cars will get there, but for now if you roll in to a car meet in a supra compared to a NSX, you *will* get a different crowd reaction. I personally like the supra too.

That's just about sixty seconds of brainstorming. I suspect you may get others

In general though - go for a ride in the various cars and you will "get it". Nothing speaks the truth quite like your butt sitting in a seat.

 

[The King]

Nissans are ugly rustbuckets, VR4s are overweight pigs. RX7s are fun cars as long as you have a constant cheap supply of oil.

 

[Aaron91RS]

I could make lists that highlight the positives of the other cars as well. My point was simply I find it odd it's so far away from what I consider its peers. Whatever you think it's peers are look at their prices and that will probably tell you whether its over/undervalued in your eyes.

 

[Osiris_x11]

Conventional wisdom:

If it's a clean, no-nonsense, fairly priced NSX... buy it immediately. There will be pricing unicorns (barn-finds/estate-liquidations/fire-sales/aloof-sellers), but the best time to buy the aforementioned type of NSX was yesterday and today is as good as it gets and tomorrow will be too late. I'm speaking proverbially, not literally.

Obviously, a return of The Great Recession (namely '08 economic conditions) can change things. But, with that said the NSX tide has turned upward and will likely hold/rise moving forward.

 

[Lamchop168]

Aaron91RS - It doesn't sound like you know the NSX and definitely have not driven one. Cause if you have, then you wouldn't be on this thread. If my speculation is correct, then I'm sorry, you have no place here. It seems like you really don't know what you're talking about. The mere simple difference between a NSX and all the other cars your mentioned is so different in every aspect. Blue_myrridn stated just some of the difference but there's a lot more. Don't forget this marvel was built in 1990, what other car can compare to this back in those days? And BTW, were you even driving in 1990? I suggest you read our wiki and learn the car before you try to compare to any other cars. And after you read the wiki and still thinks 300zs, vr4s or rx7s is just much better, then I think you're definitely join the wrong forum cause this is ALL NSX!!!!!

 

[fd3s_fan]

Stock for stock from a numbers standpoint can you justify an NSX being that different then the others?

Performance stats aren't always the biggest driver in collector car prices. There are lots of valuable/collectible sports cars that weren't the fastest of their peer group.

I own an FD RX-7 and an NA1 NSX. In my opinion the NSX will always command higher prices for reasons already stated, even though I think the FD is a better performance car.

 

[BamaFan]

Aaron,

I'd add the Toyota MR2 to your list of desirable Japanese performance cars. Great car to drive. However, I've had the pleasure of driving many sports cars and used to own an RX-7 (which I really enjoyed), but none of the cars on your list--and adding in the MR2--is anything like the NSX. It was hand built by specially-chosen employees at the height of Honda's prowess, and it shows. Truly a special car.