This is a good site for new car sales data, put it on your list for USA & Canada.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/
Open order slots msrp
- Thread starter brucewinter
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This will be an interesting next 2-3 months. So whether they're wanted or not (because of their spec), you're right. It is still inventory open to buy on the ground. That is going to make it harder and harder for dealers, even with a high demand and 10-20+ on the wait list, to ask huge market adjustments, if any.
I personally know of several that delivered (not asked) already with markups of $30-50k. But those are in high demand markets. Yet we do have dealers willing to do straight sticker order already elsewhere.
Gotta say...what an interesting world this is. Think about it. There are more choices in this ~$200k starter supercar segment (NSX, 570S, R8 V10, Huracan, 488, 911 GT3/Turbo, and maybe a couple others) than there is in the much more affordable cheap and fun small convertible car segment or even the pony car segment.
I personally know of several that delivered (not asked) already with markups of $30-50k. But those are in high demand markets. Yet we do have dealers willing to do straight sticker order already elsewhere.
Gotta say...what an interesting world this is. Think about it. There are more choices in this ~$200k starter supercar segment (NSX, 570S, R8 V10, Huracan, 488, 911 GT3/Turbo, and maybe a couple others) than there is in the much more affordable cheap and fun small convertible car segment or even the pony car segment.
I think this is the key point. Some dealers may be able to score markups in hot markets but chances are that markups won't be around for long because of the large pool of competitors in the price range. What this also means is that the slow ramp up to production can hurt Acura badly here. If people are waiting 6-12 months for their car to get built, other cars are gonna start coming into the picture and some of those on the NSX waitlist will jump ship. The 991.2 GT3 is probably going to get announced in the next couple of months, and Mclaren will probably be announcing at least one new model (570S spyder or P14).
The other challenge for the NSX is that the folks selling Porsches and Lambos know how to treat that segment of clientele. The sales people tend to know the product, they know what the customer base for each car is like, and they have an established process for dealing with orders and communicating with the customer. While the primary driver of a purchase like this is the car not the salesperson or general manager, but irritations dealing with the sales staff are the kinds of things drive people away. I'm looking at adding a sports car to the stable in maybe a year+ and the difference in communicating with a Porsche dealer and an Acura dealer are pretty stark. Of the two Acura dealers I contacted in my area, one didn't call back after two calls :suspicion:
I don't think the NSX will be a flop by any means but I think there are some challenges that Acura needs to step up to if they want to swim with the other apex predators. I think if favorable magazine comparos start rolling in it can do much to keep that sizzle going but production has to ramp up so that the people who put down deposits don't lose interest. I also think Acura needs to do whatever they can to help dealerships deliver the best supercar purchasing/ownership experience to NSX customers as possible.
my dealer received their first NSX last week...unsold, still on the floor asking a $50,000 market value adjustment. Any takers here?
It's my view when you've got 25 +/- unsold nationally advertised out of approx 100 made you don't have high demand or they would all be sold.
And the wait lists are more expression of interest lists and aren't anything to count on until an order is specced out, and a large deposit placed.
I remain convinced Honda doesn't have a handle on the real sales pace of the NSX yet.
All they have is a factory order file made up of an uncertain number of dealer unsolds which clouds the picture.
It's my view when you've got 25 +/- unsold nationally advertised out of approx 100 made you don't have high demand or they would all be sold.
And the wait lists are more expression of interest lists and aren't anything to count on until an order is specced out, and a large deposit placed.
I remain convinced Honda doesn't have a handle on the real sales pace of the NSX yet.
All they have is a factory order file made up of an uncertain number of dealer unsolds which clouds the picture.
fastaussie
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yup, excuses can be made but numbers don't lie. there doesn't appear to be a high demand for the NSX...
I think it's just a reflection of the fact that there are many supercars to choose from so none of the cars are selling at 5 digit markups except for the 488 and the GT3RS. Right now there are over 20 570S's for sale on cars.com too. Even though it's a brand new car looking to sell at about 2000 units a year, you could walk into a dealership and buy one at MSRP today. Same with R8, same with Huracan.
Dealers out there trying to cash in big on the market adjustments are probably going to strike out. Not the worst thing in the world really. What would be bad is if they hold the line on markups so long that they end up having to discount the cars to get them sold.
fastaussie
Suspended
regardless of market adjustments, or geographical location, or any other excuses, the fact that there's two dozen or more brand new NSX's sitting unsold, some for weeks now, when there's only been 100 produced so far, drives home the fact that this car is not a hot seller, because it isn't selling. that's the simple fact of the matter. if it isn't at fever pitch right now, it's not going to get any more so. it's looking like a dud right out of the gate boys...
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FA keep in mind these are Aug year to date numbers, not month of August, and the NSX has only been out two months +/-
fastaussie
Suspended
corrected.
are those numbers for the new GTR and R8? i believe only the new model R8 has been sold this year, of which it has only been available for a few months at most?
are those numbers for the new GTR and R8? i believe only the new model R8 has been sold this year, of which it has only been available for a few months at most?
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fastaussie
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this looks like way too much work. my attention span isn't long enough for this... :smile:
Do you suppose they are not selling because greedy asshole dealers are attempting to add a ton to the suggested retail price?
So would you say that the 570S is also a sales dud? Given that there are just as many of them sitting on lots and there are not wait lists for that car?
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thats ridiculous. the ones in the bay area sold for ~$35 over.
But greedy asshole dealers for other cars like the 458 when it launched were able to sell them even with huge upcharges. For years! The demand is just not high enough to support this car because the car itself is a failure. I walked away at MSRP and so have many others here in Houston. I had the no.2 spot and my dealer keeps calling me even though I said no thanks, he said no.1 also gave up his. There are plenty of exotics here in Houston too so it should be doing well, but the demand is just not there in my experience. The car has great tech, sub-par design, and absolutely no continued legacy from the original... (Unless you think in the most abstract of terms meaning just the seed of the idea was carried over... And even then the tech has already been demonstrated so the only experiment is the pricing). The legacy problem is where I truly think the whole thing went wrong. JMO
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the delays are the problem.
acura advertised this car at the Super Bowl 2 YEARS ago. who advertises a product that wont be out for YEARS?
the perception of what the car should have been is also an issue. nsx fanbois wanted $100k low weight, low tech car. that's what the original was and thats what the marketplace was at that time. its been 25 years since the original launched. obviously a lot has changed. however, this one continues the idea of the original, more tech at a lower price than its competitors.
acura advertised this car at the Super Bowl 2 YEARS ago. who advertises a product that wont be out for YEARS?
the perception of what the car should have been is also an issue. nsx fanbois wanted $100k low weight, low tech car. that's what the original was and thats what the marketplace was at that time. its been 25 years since the original launched. obviously a lot has changed. however, this one continues the idea of the original, more tech at a lower price than its competitors.
Ferrari is literally the only supercar manufacturer that has enough demand that even the 'regular' version of their supercars have year(s) long waitlists and markups. Lamborghini, Porsche, Mclaren, Aston Martin, Mercedes Benz and Audi don't have that, and have never had that.
You can't really say one way or another what the total demand is even in your area unless you know the situation with every customer in your region. I'm sure there are people getting cold feet and Acura is certainly going to miss out on buyers due to the slow production ramp up. The car has only been coming out of the factory for 2 months and less than 100 cars have been made. We're probably not going to have a real picture for at least a few more months.
Demand is a variable Honda can't control.
Supply is what they can control.
As long as they have the discipline to manage supply the car should be a success.
So far the combined Honda/Acura dealership supply line hasn't done a very good job with so many unsold cars on the web.
Seems Honda is learning how their plan for a halo car can go awry when dealers decide to add significant premiums resulting in a slowing/stopping of real sales.
Dealers are acting at odds with the Honda corporate goals.
Expect they will correct this or curtail/divert production if demand isn't there in the volume they hoped for.
If they do keep producing and shipping unsold cars then I would agree with others that the car, although a grand machine, will fall out of favor.
Supply is what they can control.
As long as they have the discipline to manage supply the car should be a success.
So far the combined Honda/Acura dealership supply line hasn't done a very good job with so many unsold cars on the web.
Seems Honda is learning how their plan for a halo car can go awry when dealers decide to add significant premiums resulting in a slowing/stopping of real sales.
Dealers are acting at odds with the Honda corporate goals.
Expect they will correct this or curtail/divert production if demand isn't there in the volume they hoped for.
If they do keep producing and shipping unsold cars then I would agree with others that the car, although a grand machine, will fall out of favor.
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If that is the case the Ferrari limits supply. Good idea to make things favorable. They could easily double their production if they wanted to but their goal is NOT to do that to keep prices high enough. After 5 years or a new model it's a completely different story...prices melt down.
Not sure what goes wrong with unsold cars but Ferrari seems to use a trick to avoid things like this. Anyone an idea?
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