Oil drain plug spinning but not coming out

[cuts1200]

I'm skeptical of this line of argument.

If you follow a torque spec (that is, with a torque wrench),
the threads should see the same stress irrespective of whether
or not the washer is compressible. You'll reach the specified
torque more quickly (i.e., with less rotation of the bolt after
contact) with a rigid washer--but if you don't exceed the
torque spec, the threads won't be overstressed.

Contrary to your belief, each time you torque a bolt,nut or what ever you are stretching that fastener to it's limit. Crush washer are designed to relieve that stress on the plug by giving to that stress by compressing.

 

[Hugh]

I'm hoping i don't have to enlarge the hole with a larger tap

I'm willing to bet that once you use the thread chaser you'll be fine. The correct size is M14x1.5 by the way. You'll love Mr. Fumoto too.

 

[cuts1200]

I'm willing to bet that once you use the thread chaser you'll be fine. The correct size is M14x1.5 by the way. You'll love Mr. Fumoto too.

Is he related to Mr.Moto?:biggrin:

 

[Hugh]

Is he related to Mr.Moto?:biggrin:

FU :biggrin:

 

[Hugh]

Contrary to your belief, each time you torque a bolt,nut or what ever you are stretching that fastener to it's limit. Crush washer are designed to relieve that stress on the plug by giving to that stress by compressing.

Contrary to your belief, The clamp load produced during tightening is about 75% of the fastener's proof load. Proof load is defined as the greatest load than can be applied to a piece without straining the piece beyond the elastic limit.

The main purpose of the crush washer is to seal any tiny imperfections between the bolt's head and the surface of the oil pan preventing leaks. This is why you basically only see them used on bolts that seal in fluids.

A veritable potpourri of bolted joint information can be found here.

 

[Daedalus]

Contrary to your belief, each time you torque a bolt,nut or what ever you are stretching that fastener to it's limit. Crush washer are designed to relieve that stress on the plug by giving to that stress by compressing.

Tom is right. The stress on a bolt comes from a combination of torsion and tension. For non-locking fasteners, the vast majority of stress is from tension. If you're tightening to a torque spec, neither one of these stresses is affected by having a crush washer in the way. The stress is at max exactly when the torque is at max. As far as being near its limit, I strongly doubt it. If the plug is 14mm dia (DAMN big fastener!) and torqued to 18 ft-lbs, we can get a rough estimate of stress from Shigley of 1960 psi = (5*12*18/.551), probably a little higher due to oil on the threads. Steel doesn't even begin to flinch at 2000 psi. Although some fasteners are torque-to-yield in certain applications, most, including the oil bolt, are not. If it was, you would replace it each time you changed the oil.

 

[Tom239]

Contrary to your belief, each time you torque a bolt,nut or what ever you are stretching that fastener to it's limit. Crush washer are designed to relieve that stress on the plug by giving to that stress by compressing.

Torque specs tend to be below the limit of the fastener.

If bolts needed crush washers to relieve stress on the threads,
you'd see crush washers all over the place. Think about the locations
where crush washers are used (e.g., gas filters, oil drains, spark plugs) --
deformable washers are used there because they seal better.

 

[Hugh]

Is there an echo in here?

 

[Shumdit]

Is there an echo in here?

No, some people just skip your posts as it's so rare to see actual on-topic replies from you:biggrin: :wink:

 

[zahntech]

24ft/lbs is nowhere neer the max limit of a 14mm thread/bolt.....the oil drain bolts on honda's wear at the threads..then the threads become very sharp and thin ...they then start to eat away at the thin metal that is tack welded inside the pan...the symptom that this car has..(spinning drain bolt) says to me that the pan needs to be replaced or a new tapable section welded in...it is very difficult to weld inside the pan due to the curve in the metal below the plug area....so that leaves you with welding it outside the pan.....I have seen many hondas fixed this way but it is usualy very ugly.....I would get a new pan as Larry sugjests....and use the Fumoto plug.

 

[OLDMNSX]

I just wish that everyone that ever purchased an oil filter and new crush washer could have all of this infomation just "ZAPPED" into their brain. They would have to stand at the parts counter for at least 5 minutes for all of it to soak in. Most probably still wouldn't have a clue. This is a great place to stop for good conversation, even though I'm half a world away. Thanks to all of you who ask questions and to you who have the knowledge to answer.:wink:
Brad in Afganistan

 

[Shumdit]

Brad, Be careful, I hear there's some unrest over there.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

I just wish that everyone that ever purchased an oil filter and new crush washer could have all of this infomation just "ZAPPED" into their brain. They would have to stand at the parts counter for at least 5 minutes for all of it to soak in. Most probably still wouldn't have a clue. This is a great place to stop for good conversation, even though I'm half a world away. Thanks to all of you who ask questions and to you who have the knowledge to answer.:wink:
Brad in Afganistan

Well Brad, Thanks really needs to go to you, for your efforts overseas. What we would like to see is you having your ass "ZAPPED" back to the US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards and Thank You,
LarryB

 

[MLmotorsport]

Well I got it out. The plug definitely stripped. The threads on the pan were pretty much left entact (99%). I tapped it just in case. Put the new gasket on and all is well once again. I wondered how much extra oil woudln't drain with the Fumoto in because its threads go into the pan a ways. Here's a picture of the pan from the inside with the Fumoto installed. -sorry it's so blurry-

 

[ohshytitschris]

that's good to hear. good thing you didn't spend hundreds for replacement parts!:smile:

chris

 

[MLmotorsport]

that's good to hear. good thing you didn't spend hundreds for replacement parts!:smile:

chris

I know, sorry Chris! :wink:

 

[ohshytitschris]

haha..nothing to be sorry about! just trying to help..that's all!

how does the hat look?

 

[MLmotorsport]

how does the hat look?

Wearing it at the moment. It'll be on my head as I'm the only Acura at the DE's I'm doing this week. You're getting some advertisement up here - but I'm pretty sure it's inconsequential to you down there. :wink:

 

[ohshytitschris]

I appreciate that Michael. Good luck with the NSX! Hope everything works out for you!

Chris

 

[nsxhk]

I wonder.... would putting some teflon tape on the drain bolt helps? Wouldn't that be a even simpler fix?

Henry.

 

[Hugh]

I wonder.... would putting some teflon tape on the drain bolt helps? Wouldn't that be a even simpler fix?

Henry.

Not if the pan's threads are damaged. Using a thread chaser to bring them back should work 99% of the time. Then get a Fumoto valve.

 

[Hugh]

I wondered how much extra oil woudln't drain with the Fumoto in because its threads go into the pan a ways.

Are you sure about that? Before I installed my Fumoto I measured the thread depth using a factory crush washer and it was just a tad shorter than the threads in the oil pan. Unless of course I made a mistake.

 

[Shumdit]

Are you sure about that? Before I installed my Fumoto I measured the thread depth using a factory crush washer and it was just a tad shorter than the threads in the oil pan. Unless of course I made a mistake.

:biggrin: :biggrin: Hugh-make a mistake?:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: couldn't happen

 

[Beaknose]

Hey Guys,

I've been reading this very informative thread and have decided to get the Fumoto Valve for my '91. When I go to the Fumoto site, I click on the 'Acura' link, then the link for 'All models w/V6 engine'. I then click on the 'F-106' link in which it specifies this works for all V6 engines from '99 to current. Just to confirm, will the F-106 model work for my year car? Do I need to worry about a recessed drain plug port also for a '91? Thanks in advance for all of your help!!

John
'91 Red/Ivory

 

[Shumdit]

Yes it should work on your model.