O.K. who has the lightest NSX

[AU_NSX]

Anyone care to guess at the weight savings of a 02+ headlight upgrade?

Ok a guess... 20kg?

My '91 twin turbo weighs in at 1080kg dry and without me! Including rolecage.

So that is like 2376 lbs (assuming 2.2lbs to a kg)

 

[EAC]

OK so no reply. This could be a good discussion.

We got a Mazda FD from ~2,800 lbs down to 2,295 lbs.

There is a cage in the car (2inch tubing). Eric is swapping that out for a lighter 1 5/8 o.d.x .118 mild steel tubing cage. Also, It has a harness and big brakes with full interior from the seats forward.

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=A5655452-3341-48F2-BDFA-8F38BB50196B

OK same Car, Widebody and race gas 603 RWHP Dyno Run ***Video*** Not bad for a 1.3 liter:
http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=219AA0AF-C83C-4FE6-A119-0854A26DB255

I know how to build an FD how do we get the weight down and power up on the X?

Ready to learn, Jeff

Hey, that's my old car

 

[Hapa88]

I think I probably have one of the lightest. . .

10 grams. :biggrin:

 

[Vega$ NSX]

Nope, got you beat. Made of foam < 5 grams.

 

[whrdnsx]

I'm down to 1198 Kgs

I have another 40 kgs estimated to be removed.
purge of unnessary wiring
removal of body deadner
lexan rear hatch
Alloy alternator mount
custom Inlet manifold
comptech Cam pulleys & custom made flywheel & 5" carbon Clutch

I'm hoping to get under 1100 kgs without looking like a Gutted racecar.

 

[MvM]

I've had my current 1998 NSX-T for just a month now, so I have not done all that I want to do, but if my calculation are correct I am down to around 1376 kg or 3033 lbs with a full tank at the moment.

- Removed spare wheel + bracket
- Changed OEM wheels with OZ ultraleggera 17/18
- NSX-R rear spoiler
- NSX-R front lower chassis bar and NSX-R front sway bar
- Taitec GTLW exhaust
- Carbon engine lid
- Odyssey PC925 battery
- Removed OEM foglights
- TEIN-RA suspension

Original weight with a full tank was 1420 kg or 3130 lbs.

Unfortunately, this was the easy part of loosing weight. To loose another 100 lbs won't be so easy or cheap.

 

[willski695]

Ok a guess... 20kg? My '91 twin turbo weighs in at 1080kg dry and without me! Including rolecage.So that is like 2376 lbs (assuming 2.2lbs to a kg)

How does it drive so much lighter than when it was stock? I guess it'd be hard to know since you put the turbos on?

 

[Jinks]

It doesn't matter to me how much weight I remove from my nsx. Once I step in it, it's 265# heavier. I'd rather be lazy and add horsepower.

 

[Patricio]

If were talking street cars, I may be the lightest NSX with air conditioning and heater, with full interior, with power windows/locks and with all OEM glass and still on OEM ECU

Currently 2530-2540lbs
around 7.66 power to weight (281whp 15% drive-train loss equals 324 crank HP)

there is still have allot of stuff I could take out of the car but don't want to turn into a stripped car or lose Air conditioning nor make any irreversible modifications to the car.
Have retained some creature comforts that an NSX-R does not have (A/C, undercarriage sound deadening, glass window divider, power locks and mirrors, trunk open switch)

I have considered going to stand alone AEM EMS hoping for an extra 10whp and reducing down to 2450lbs to try to achieve a power to weight ratio of 7.16.

An NSX with N/A bolt-ons can still be quite competitive at 2500lbs.

Here are the new modern cars for reference: (crank hp):

Porsche 911 2007 997 Turbo... 3494lbs..... 500hp.... 6.99 p/w
Porsche 911 2007 997 GT3..... 3075lbs..... 435hp.... 7.07 p/w
2016 Porsche Cayman GT4..... 2955...... 385hp.... 7.68 p/w
Nissan GTR 2010.............. 3827lbs.... 515hp...... 7.43 p/w
Corvette 2004 C5 Z06 ....... 3118 lbs.... 410hp..... 7.60 p/w
NSX OEM NA2 CTSC.......... 3150 lbs.... 400hp.... 7.70 p/w
Ferrari modena F360......... 3064 lbs.... 395hp..... 7.76 p/w
2015 BMW M3/M4 ............ 3571 lbs.... 450hp...... 7.94 p/w
Lotus exige ..................... 2077 lbs.... 269hp...... 7.72 p/w
Porsche 911 996 turbo x50...3480 lbs.. 460hp...... 7.57 p/w
Porsche 911 996 GT3......... 3043 lbs... 381hp..... 7.99 p/w

<a href="http://s172.photobucket.com/user/tiago3/media/current%20weight%20reduction.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w15/tiago3/current%20weight%20reduction.png" border="0" alt=" photo current weight reduction.png"/></a>
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[Jinks]

If were talking street cars, I may be the lightest NSX with air conditioning and heater, with full interior, with power windows/locks and with all OEM glass and still on OEM ECU

Currently 2530-2540lbs
around 7.66 power to weight (281whp 15% drive-train loss equals 324 crank HP)

there is still have allot of stuff I could take out of the car but don't want to turn into a stripped car or lose Air conditioning nor make any irreversible modifications to the car.
Have retained some creature comforts that an NSX-R does not have (A/C, undercarriage sound deadening, glass window divider, power locks and mirrors, trunk open switch)

I have considered going to stand alone AEM EMS hoping for an extra 10whp and reducing down to 2450lbs to try to achieve a power to weight ratio of 7.16.

An NSX with N/A bolt-ons can still be quite competitive at 2500lbs.

Here are the new modern cars for reference: (crank hp):

Porsche 911 2007 997 Turbo... 3494lbs..... 500hp.... 6.99 p/w
2016 Porsche Cayman GT4..... 2955...... 385hp.... 7.68 p/w
Nissan GTR 2010.............. 3827lbs.... 515hp...... 7.43 p/w
Corvette 2004 C5 Z06 ....... 3118 lbs.... 410hp..... 7.60 p/w
NSX OEM NA2 CTSC.......... 3150 lbs.... 400hp.... 7.70 p/w
Ferrari modena F360......... 3064 lbs.... 395hp..... 7.76 p/w
2015 BMW M3/M4 ............ 3571 lbs.... 450hp...... 7.94 p/w
Lotus exige ..................... 2077 lbs.... 269hp...... 7.72 p/w
Porsche 911 996 turbo x50...3480 lbs.. 460hp...... 7.57 p/w
Porsche 911 996 GT3......... 3043 lbs... 381hp..... 7.99 p/w

Please buy a shift boot retainer! Just a few grams. I used to have that nsxr shift boot. It's cheap and saves a few grams. The difference of having breakfast or not. Just saying. Great weight loss post though. Thanks for sharing.

 

[synergy004]

2760lbs @ 667.8whp w/all amenities = whoa!

 

[Patricio]

Please buy a shift boot retainer! Just a few grams. I used to have that nsxr shift boot. It's cheap and saves a few grams. The difference of having breakfast or not. Just saying. Great weight loss post though. Thanks for sharing.

lol yes i did buy the clip a few months ago, after taking that pic and noticing how crappy it looked, i immediately resolved it.

 

[Patricio]

So here I am promoting and encouraging more owners to lose weight... from the car that is
for anyone curious of just how fast a super lightweight street (full interior and Air Conditioning) Naturally Aspirated NSX can be with just bolt-ons, here are the track results
at homestead we ran a 1:41 and 1:44 respectfully with a passenger in all runs, and probably could run 1:39's or better with adjustments and no passenger,
video attached and link to the thread about the track day with Billy coaching me
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/192908-N-A-NSX-Passing-porsches-w-Billy-Johnson.

For reference professionally driven Porsche race cars run 1:36-1:38
Newer GT3's run 1:38-1:44 depending on driver, see reference link:
http://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-g...lap-times.html

So.... no boost is needed to make a really fast and fun street/track NSX, just need to take weight reduction to the modern GT3 level.
and really understand power to weight, power curves, predictability, and the massive 600lb weight advantage we have in the corners. that enabled us to pull constant back to back 1G - 1.2G race car like lateral Grip and still has room to improve upon.

After much discussion it's very possible with boost, I could be slower around the track since traction would be more of an issue for the average driver along with heat management. There is a reason Porsche races N/A GT3's that run faster lap times than their turbo counterparts. More power does not always equal faster around the track even more so for amateurs. Billy would be faster with the turbo, but that may not be the case for everyone, including myself. The new lighter weight set up was surprisingly easy to drive and predictable, hardly any over-steer or under-steer, the stoptech BBK was amazing.. everything thing about the car was predictable, it just did what it was told to do, every time. no substitute for weight reduction, it improved everything compared to when I last did a track day about 3 years ago around 2750-2800lbs. I'm not anti-boost but just being realistic that setting up a turbo or CTSC car capable of sustaining numerous 30 minute sessions without overheating and applying that power smoothly to the wheels at 1G lateral, is no where near as easy as making power on the street or on a dyno.

I really like to compare what Porsche is accomplishing with GT3 because of its relevancy to the NSX-R approach.

New 991 GT3 has a power to weight ratio of 6.64 but weighs 3152
previous 997 GT3 has a power to weight ratio of 7.41 but weighs 3074
New Cayman GT4 has a power to weight ratio of 7.68 and weighs 2955
older 996 GT3 has a power to weight ratio of 7.99 but weighs 3043
An NA2 NSX-R has a power to weight ratio of 8.11 and weighs 2810 (I use 346hp crank / 295whp we all know the NSXR does not have 290 @ crank)
A CTSC nsx has a power to weight ratio between 7.5 to 8 and weighs 3000lbs (400hp at crank, 375hp at crank with heat soak, (low boost for reliability)
A lightweight NA1 NSX like mine has a power to weight ratio of 7.55 and weighs 2500lbs (331hp crank / 282 whp)
A stock mild turbo NSX has a power to weight ratio of 6.6 using 3000lbs. (450hp at crank on track tune, reliability, heat and traction issues to consider)


So its not just HP, the NSX can match a 997's power to weight ratio but can still be faster due to its almost 600lb advantage which actually makes able to almost keep up with the 991 GT3 with the stronger power to weight advantage but 650lbs disadvantage in the turns and braking zones.

And keep in mind there is no weight to remove from a GT3 since its already practically gutted from factory, showing just how UN-necessarily bloated an NSX comes from the factory and how much room there is for improvement. GT3s look like street cars but have lexan rear windows and some don't have A/C.... The NSX could have been allot lighter than it was.

A turbo alone on a stock car without weight reduction would likely run slower times than we did in a 2500lbs N/A car. there is no substitute for weight reduction when it comes to corner and braking and transitioning from turn to turn, the NSX-R proved that a long time ago, so now we just need to continue to improve on where the NSX-R left off. We can't underestimate the power of weight reduction which is how the NSX-R confused the world with its performance..

Now I'm dreaming of 2400 lbs with an NA2 C32 engine/6-spd swap plus bolt-ons and AEM EMS & E85 for 300-310whp aiming for 6.81 to 6.55 power to weight thus matching the P/W ratio of Newest 991 GT3 but with a 750 lbs weight advantage. And still retaining A/C, full interior amenities and OEM predictability & reliability.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fhOm7Tt6vQ0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[willski695]

To my albeit still learning eyes, it looks like you took a lot of weight off and allowed the engine to breathe better but didn't go crazy modifying the engine. My question is - how does the car feel compared to when it was full up at 3010lbs? You're talking about taking off about 17% of the weight, how does that translate to how it feels?

Thanks!
Will

If were talking street cars, I may be the lightest NSX with air conditioning and heater, with full interior, with power windows/locks and with all OEM glass and still on OEM ECU

Currently 2530-2540lbs
around 7.66 power to weight (281whp 15% drive-train loss equals 324 crank HP)

there is still have allot of stuff I could take out of the car but don't want to turn into a stripped car or lose Air conditioning nor make any irreversible modifications to the car.
Have retained some creature comforts that an NSX-R does not have (A/C, undercarriage sound deadening, glass window divider, power locks and mirrors, trunk open switch)

I have considered going to stand alone AEM EMS hoping for an extra 10whp and reducing down to 2450lbs to try to achieve a power to weight ratio of 7.16.

An NSX with N/A bolt-ons can still be quite competitive at 2500lbs.

Here are the new modern cars for reference: (crank hp):

Porsche 911 2007 997 Turbo... 3494lbs..... 500hp.... 6.99 p/w
Porsche 911 2007 997 GT3..... 3075lbs..... 435hp.... 7.07 p/w
2016 Porsche Cayman GT4..... 2955...... 385hp.... 7.68 p/w
Nissan GTR 2010.............. 3827lbs.... 515hp...... 7.43 p/w
Corvette 2004 C5 Z06 ....... 3118 lbs.... 410hp..... 7.60 p/w
NSX OEM NA2 CTSC.......... 3150 lbs.... 400hp.... 7.70 p/w
Ferrari modena F360......... 3064 lbs.... 395hp..... 7.76 p/w
2015 BMW M3/M4 ............ 3571 lbs.... 450hp...... 7.94 p/w
Lotus exige ..................... 2077 lbs.... 269hp...... 7.72 p/w
Porsche 911 996 turbo x50...3480 lbs.. 460hp...... 7.57 p/w
Porsche 911 996 GT3......... 3043 lbs... 381hp..... 7.99 p/w

 

[willski695]

I should say I've read this post through a couple times and I see the track times but I'm thinking more about just straight up acceleration - I understand the part weight plays in the corners is drastic. I drove a 358whp NSX but was unimpressed with how it felt compared with my 2004 256whp (though his did pull harder above 6k, it wasn't significant). Looking at the weight loss I imagine the car would feel faster in a straight line as well and that's what I'm trying to quantify or at least understand more fully.

Please buy a shift boot retainer! Just a few grams. I used to have that nsxr shift boot. It's cheap and saves a few grams. The difference of having breakfast or not. Just saying. Great weight loss post though. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Patricio]

[MENTION=31547]willski695[/MENTION]

Yes weight reduction is primarily for increased over all performance; braking, handling, increased speed through corners and smoother weight transitioning, and acceleration up to a certain point. But if your looking for huge acceleration benefits only then allot more HP is your easy answer. As weight reduction alone will limit you to low 12's possibly high 11's in the 1/4 (low 4's seconds 0-60).
If you need faster than that in a straight line you need to go Turbo or 3.5L N/A stroker and very big brakes since your only benefit will be getting to high speeds rapidly.

I made a detailed excel spread sheet table that shows relative acceleration increase based on weight reduction
it is included here in post 767 here: http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/78963-Unofficial-weight-reduction-thread/page31 with more explanation of various colors (blue is a 300whp N/A... Green is a 269whp N/A) there is also grey for other references, CTSC, turbo @ oem weight & turbo at 2650lbs, various oem years, NSX-R ect. I used oem nsx rwhp dyno numbers form the 2002 NSXPO file... There are also two 1/4 mile formula/theory calculations for comparison/redundancy. Basically a Best/Worst case scenario.

For whatever its worth, to each his own, but to me the most capable/reliable street/track car overall would be a 2500lbs-2600lbs 3.5L stroker with 350whp and would run mid 11's without complications and includes confirmed 1.1G handling capabilities. 2015 C7 Z06 level acceleration but with a 600lbs (20%) lighter weight advantage.

My goal is the gray 2350lbs with 350whp 3.5L N/A

 

[Stephen@NCAutoUSA]

I'm going to remove my rear trunk carpet as well and add the mat. That looks like a good idea.

 

[VR4Rob]

Great thread and great posts Patricio! It's pretty incredible how much weight you can get out of an NSX, given how relatively light they are to begin with.

 

[Patricio]

[MENTION=16534]Sduff@Composites[/MENTION]
steven, do it! the shiny oem body color showing in the trunk is such an upgrade back there just leave your side covers to hide the wires

[MENTION=31565]VR4Rob[/MENTION]
thanks! and I'm almost finished developing some carbon fiber and carbon kevlar custom parts that will reduce an additional 100lbs over next few weeks.

 

[Valkyrie Pilot]

If were talking street cars, I may be the lightest NSX with air conditioning and heater, with full interior, with power windows/locks and with all OEM glass and still on OEM ECU

Currently 2530-2540lbs
around 7.66 power to weight (281whp 15% drive-train loss equals 324 crank HP)

there is still have allot of stuff I could take out of the car but don't want to turn into a stripped car or lose Air conditioning nor make any irreversible modifications to the car.
Have retained some creature comforts that an NSX-R does not have (A/C, undercarriage sound deadening, glass window divider, power locks and mirrors, trunk open switch)

I have considered going to stand alone AEM EMS hoping for an extra 10whp and reducing down to 2450lbs to try to achieve a power to weight ratio of 7.16.

An NSX with N/A bolt-ons can still be quite competitive at 2500lbs.

Here are the new modern cars for reference: (crank hp):

Porsche 911 2007 997 Turbo... 3494lbs..... 500hp.... 6.99 p/w
Porsche 911 2007 997 GT3..... 3075lbs..... 435hp.... 7.07 p/w
2016 Porsche Cayman GT4..... 2955...... 385hp.... 7.68 p/w
Nissan GTR 2010.............. 3827lbs.... 515hp...... 7.43 p/w
Corvette 2004 C5 Z06 ....... 3118 lbs.... 410hp..... 7.60 p/w
NSX OEM NA2 CTSC.......... 3150 lbs.... 400hp.... 7.70 p/w
Ferrari modena F360......... 3064 lbs.... 395hp..... 7.76 p/w
2015 BMW M3/M4 ............ 3571 lbs.... 450hp...... 7.94 p/w
Lotus exige ..................... 2077 lbs.... 269hp...... 7.72 p/w
Porsche 911 996 turbo x50...3480 lbs.. 460hp...... 7.57 p/w
Porsche 911 996 GT3......... 3043 lbs... 381hp..... 7.99 p/w

Wow that stuff really adds up.

Have you looked into carbon fiber wheels? They are becoming more mainstream and seem to have a great effect on handling due to reduced unsprung weight.

The new Mustang GT 350 R has them standard:

http://jalopnik.com/the-shelby-gt350rs-super-light-carbon-fiber-wheels-use-1717009943

Ford says they saved 60 lbs but more importantly they gained a bunch more in performance since the rotational inertia is much reduced.

 

[Alec_fields]

I would be willing to put money on the fact that I have THE lightest NSX! The red one at the bottom in the middle.

it is only about an inch and a half long almost half of a matchbox car! lightest by FAR!!!

-Alec

 

[robbiedawg]

i think you win, alec. How much do the wheels weigh?

I would be willing to put money on the fact that I have THE lightest NSX! The red one at the bottom in the middle.

it is only about an inch and a half long almost half of a matchbox car! lightest by FAR!!!

-Alec

 

[boca rat]

Patricio, I think your math on crank hp is off a bit. If you have 281rwhp and 15% drivetrain loss you have 330 at the crank. You need to divide by .85 not multiply by 1.15. I hope I made your night....)

Is 15% drivetrain loss fair? Not sure if I read 12.5% somewhere?

Anyway, that's a Dynojet.....) On Mase's 'heartbreaker' Dyno Dynamics the other night I saw 410rwhp at 7psi = 482 at the crank. 3045/482 = 6.31. (3045 with a full tank of gas but at the local landfill weigh station so "unofficial")

Great thread. And really liking that white rear trunk look - pity mine is black....)

 

[asylum]

I should weight mine. Perhaps not the lightest, as I have no carbon panels but a full cage, no front lights, lexan side windows... I still have to install the rear glass.

 

[integrals]

My racecar is down to 2440 full of fluids (and gas), sans driver.

About 45lbs left that i can spare too. More #'s later this year