NSX to 911 GT3 or GT3 RS...anyone?

[EuroBoutique]

NA power is always so much more fun than forced induction!

Cayenne GTS > Cayenne Turbo

GTS > Turbo

(Of course this is all my opinion) so best bet is to go drive both but on the track the GTR RS is the most raw race car you can buy I think and probably the most fun for sure as the Turbo is too muted.

 

[Meeyatch1]

Hey Meeyatch, I've driven the CLK63 Black too. It was fun, huge torque, but felt too comfy/muted for me. I much preferred the GT3 RS I drove.

Not to throw you off more, have you considered an F360? Decent low mile ones are around 70K now - my buddy says maintenance isn't actually all THAT bad (has been very reliable), you could stash away the cash difference between an F360 and a GT3 for future maintenance. It's comparable to the GT3 in speed (though technically I guess the GT3 is faster in the right hands) but as fun as the GT3 is to drive, the F360 is so much more enjoyable and rewarding.... especially with the wicked Tubi exhaust. It's by far my favorite car so far.

Thank you. Yes, I actually did consider the 360 a few years ago. I drove a couple of them, and just was not as thrilled as I hoped to be. Looks awesome, sounds fantastic, but just enough to make me pull the trigger.

The CLK63 AMG Black Series is a unique car, and I have an E63 AMG right now that I love the power of, which is why it is still kind of tugging at me. But after driving a GT3 a few years ago (996 style), I was very impressed with the purity of driving, and driver involvement, and can only imagine that is amplified on the 997 GT3 and GT3 RS.

 

[whiteNSXs]

This is not a personal attack, But this logic does not make sense to me. It's like I don't want a beautiful women because she's may demand more from you. "I rather have a homely woman so I can take her to Wal-mart and with a beautiful woman, then I may have to take her to Saks Fifth Avenue" See my point? I always strive for better things in life as most of us do. GT3 is one of my dream car and I am looking forward to it one day. Hopefully not too distant future.

Agree.
If it were more fun to drive a slower car fast, then why not just buy a Miata or Mini Cooper over the NSX?
Steve

 

[CL65 Captain]

Ray05NSX just went from a NSX to a 911 C2S with the PDK to a 2010 911 GT3RS. And he's tracked the previous two pretty extensively. The RS won't hit Mid Ohio until April, but you can PM him and see what he thinks of the car.

But honestly, if you are buying to drive on the street and never tracking it then it's like dating a porn star and never banging her. I for one would lose all respect for someone who buys a car like a RS or Scuderia that is purposely made for track use and then only boulevard cruises it. It completely goes against the dual use purpose of the design and screams POSER!!!

 

[EIFFEL]

I guess most NSX owner who never tracks are POSERS?:biggrin:

 

[CL65 Captain]

I guess most NSX owner who never tracks are POSERS?:biggrin:

No. But if you bought a Type R and never took it on the track than you would be. My point is these are derivatives that were special made to be dual use cars. If you are buying it to be a cruiser than there is no reason to get the "special" track version except to look like a Billy Bad Ass racer, when in fact you are not. :biggrin: For the same reason why people buy big ass wings for a car that never leaves the street.

If you ask Ray if he would have traded in his 09 C2S for a 10 GT3RS if he did NOT track it, I think the answer would be no. There's no reason to have a car that is less comfortable, doesn't have the same everyday features for MORE money if he wasn't planning on using it as a track toy. You are paying more and getting less so to speak, but that "less" has a purpose and if you don't plan on using that purpose then IMO it doesn't make sense.

 

[funkynsx]

I agree with the Captain.
Dual purpose cars should be driven on the track.
It's like keeping a bird in a cage. It's cruelty i tell ya.

 

[bfrank1972]

Agree.
If it were more fun to drive a slower car fast, then why not just buy a Miata or Mini Cooper over the NSX?
Steve

Many people do, and those people often say their Miata or Mini are nearly as fun as their 911's etc. Not saying they're in the same 'league' but people are often surprised at how much fun they are to drive on the street. You can't wind out something like a GT3 for more than a few seconds without being at dangerous speeds - how fun is that? I get the whole 'g force' in your belly thing, but that soon gets old to me. I think that's how people get 'addicted' to power, turn to FI, etc. You just get used to it too fast, and it loses it's fun factor. I really enjoyed my early 911S- it had about 200hp, weighed about 2300lbs. Maybe low 14's in the 1/4 mile, no idea what the 'skidpad' of the thing was or any of those armchair-racer numbers. I don't care either - i could wind it out.... hear that beautiful flat 6 scream at 7300... zip around the corners and feel the rear end step out... tons of feedback through the wheel... really ENJOY the car without going over 100 mph like you need to in a GT3. The GT3 is too good, too fast. Again, my point was on the STREET. Track is a different story, but ask yourself what % of your driving time is on the track?

The NSX, btw, is fast, but IMHO is 'slow' enough to enjoy on the street

 

[funkynsx]

Many people do, and those people often say their Miata or Mini are nearly as fun as their 911's etc. Not saying they're in the same 'league' but people are often surprised at how much fun they are to drive on the street. You can't wind out something like a GT3 for more than a few seconds without being at dangerous speeds - how fun is that? I get the whole 'g force' in your belly thing, but that soon gets old to me. I think that's how people get 'addicted' to power, turn to FI, etc. You just get used to it too fast, and it loses it's fun factor. I really enjoyed my early 911S- it had about 200hp, weighed about 2300lbs. Maybe low 14's in the 1/4 mile, no idea what the 'skidpad' of the thing was or any of those armchair-racer numbers. I don't care either - i could wind it out.... hear that beautiful flat 6 scream at 7300... zip around the corners and feel the rear end step out... tons of feedback through the wheel... really ENJOY the car without going over 100 mph like you need to in a GT3. The GT3 is too good, too fast. Again, my point was on the STREET. Track is a different story, but ask yourself what % of your driving time is on the track?

The NSX, btw, is fast, but IMHO is 'slow' enough to enjoy on the street

I disagree with that.
before i owned my nsx i owned an rx7 that could do a low 12 sec 1/4 mile.
That was alot more enjoyable with acceleration around town than a stock nsx. I agree you can go too far but a 12 sec car with short shifting is alot more fun than ringing the neck of a stock nsx.

 

[bfrank1972]

I disagree with that.
before i owned my nsx i owned an rx7 that could do a low 12 sec 1/4 mile.
That was alot more enjoyable with acceleration around town than a stock nsx. I agree you can go too far but a 12 sec car with short shifting is alot more fun than ringing the neck of a stock nsx.

Yup I'm sure a lot of people disagree with my opinions on the subject. To each their own. Cheers

 

[CB72]

I would only add that the last time I was driving my LoveFab turbo NSX at Le Mans, the off the shelf 997 GT3s could not pass me from the hairpin till the Dunlop curve:wink:
Guess who had the largest grin on his face?
And that was on a dry track!
On wet tracks I've lost count of the number of GT3s that have spun in front of me:biggrin:
The worst I saw was this brand new GT3 RS from Switzerland land on his roof by misjudging the entry speed in a hairpin at Dijon-Prenois...
One could buy 3 NSXs for that price!
I don't know what the real racers think about the GT3s but I believe the car is too heavy to be the "perfect" race car.
This is also true of course for the NSX in std trim.

 

[CL65 Captain]

I don't know what the real racers think about the GT3s but I believe the car is too heavy to be the "perfect" race car.
This is also true of course for the NSX in std trim.

But a GT3 isn't a race car, it's a dual use car. :wink: If the every day Joe wants a "race car" then they buy a GT3 Cup Car for a track toy.

 

[stuntman]

I would only add that the last time I was driving my LoveFab turbo NSX at Le Mans, the off the shelf 997 GT3s could not pass me from the hairpin till the Dunlop curve:wink:
Guess who had the largest grin on his face?
And that was on a dry track!
On wet tracks I've lost count of the number of GT3s that have spun in front of me:biggrin:
The worst I saw was this brand new GT3 RS from Switzerland land on his roof by misjudging the entry speed in a hairpin at Dijon-Prenois...
One could buy 3 NSXs for that price!
I don't know what the real racers think about the GT3s but I believe the car is too heavy to be the "perfect" race car.
This is also true of course for the NSX in std trim.

You are a probably better driver and have more power than those gt3s. How much power are you making?

GT3s are light by todays standards.

 

[d.n]

Yup I'm sure a lot of people disagree with my opinions on the subject. To each their own. Cheers

This probably stems a lot from how people drive on the street. I happen to have a Miata as well and have a nice route to work in the morning where I can play around and not get into any trouble. It has pencil thin tires on it and is fun to brake just to the point where the brakes slightly lock. It's very tossable and fun to slide around - I laugh when this happens. Raising the limits with a sticky street tire would kill the fun for me. The car is also boring in a straight line. Passengers probably can't even tell if I'm flooring it or not, but more oft than not, I find myself wanting to drive that car.

In the NSX, I don't play around in it on the street. I take turns "fast enough" for enjoyment, but to get to that point of "fun" in that car will bring bad news someday one way or another.

I've owned an M5 - the power got old for me. For others it's a drug they can't get enough of.

I think people just have a different idea of which pill is fun to swallow when it comes to driving on the street

 

[whiteNSXs]

Many people do, and those people often say their Miata or Mini are nearly as fun as their 911's etc. Not saying they're in the same 'league' but people are often surprised at how much fun they are to drive on the street. You can't wind out something like a GT3 for more than a few seconds without being at dangerous speeds - how fun is that? I get the whole 'g force' in your belly thing, but that soon gets old to me. I think that's how people get 'addicted' to power, turn to FI, etc. You just get used to it too fast, and it loses it's fun factor. I really enjoyed my early 911S- it had about 200hp, weighed about 2300lbs. Maybe low 14's in the 1/4 mile, no idea what the 'skidpad' of the thing was or any of those armchair-racer numbers. I don't care either - i could wind it out.... hear that beautiful flat 6 scream at 7300... zip around the corners and feel the rear end step out... tons of feedback through the wheel... really ENJOY the car without going over 100 mph like you need to in a GT3. The GT3 is too good, too fast. Again, my point was on the STREET. Track is a different story, but ask yourself what % of your driving time is on the track?

The NSX, btw, is fast, but IMHO is 'slow' enough to enjoy on the street

I am sorry but your reasoning just made no sense to me. To each his own though. We just need to agree to disagree.
Steve

 

[CB72]

You are a probably better driver and have more power than those gt3s. How much power are you making?

GT3s are light by todays standards.

I haven't measured the power but Cody says I should be making more than 400 rwhp?
I'm running with 8 psi of boost only.

 

[bfrank1972]

I am sorry but your reasoning just made no sense to me. To each his own though. We just need to agree to disagree.
Steve

I'm cool with that, though I don't think we need to even call it 'disagreement'. Just different preferences.

The interesting thing is this sub-topic (sorry OP if this is too OT), is fairly polarizing. There's a group that 'gets' what I'm trying to convey, and there's a group that doesn't. It's just different preferences really - power, while fun, just doesn't do it for me long term. I've driven a lot of cars 'fast' and 'slow' - I find I have just as much fun (or more) in a car with a lower performance envelope (I'm not talking about a Camry) than something like a GT3, GTR, Z06, etc. YMMV.

It also works very conveniently for me - I can't afford a GT3, but I can afford an 80's Porsche 911 or Mini Cooper S.

 

[charm]

I have had the pleasure of driving a 997.1 GT3 RS on a country road recently and I can understand why NSX owners and Porsche owners tend to have a mutual respect for each others' cars. The GT3 RS feels rough at first, being noisier than the regular 911 not only due to the irregular idle of the GT1 based engine but also due to the chatter of the single flywheel. As you rev up though, the noise transforms to beautiful music as one approaches 8k rpm. At higher revs, the engine seems to be more balanced, as if spinning like an electric motor, but with the added melody of the exhaust and air induction. Steering is very direct, tactile and confidence inspiring. Though it has enough torque in the midrange, you still have to wring the engine out to get the most out of it, much like what you would expect from an NA2 NSX. Ride is noticeably stiffer than a standard 911 but not punishing at all. Can I use this car as daily driver? Yes I can... and I'd enjoy every second of it. It may not have most of the luxuries of the modern automobile, but the entertainment system, the car itself, more than compensates for their absence.

The above description , as you can see, can be used for the NSX. Though the ultimate limits may not be the same for the two vehicles, which are about 2 decades apart, the direct connection between the driver and the vehicle are somewhat similar. Though the NSX's interior may look somewhat dated, it only takes a few seconds of being in the driver's seat, with a great view of the road from the cockpit, to make one realize that this is a really special car. All controls and levers are where they should be. Ones right hand automatically falls unto the shift knob, perfect gearshift feel, perfect ergonomics. Both cars are ageless in appearance, both cars are expected to have their own place in automotive history.

Hard to choose between these two. One is newer, the other older yet still very capable. Both are relatively bulletproof considering their performance. It is very easy to be attracted to the GT3/RS but once you let go of your NSX, specially if if it is in great original condition, you may never be able to find another gem like that in the future.

 

[CB72]

Thank you for this comparaison:smile:
You are right, these are two good cars and it's unbelievable to still be able to compare them despite the 20 year difference...
Honda could have kept pace with Porsche easily if they had really wanted to.
The latest standard 911 now makes 400 hp, a goal that was well within reach of the NSX without a complete new engine.
Even so, if they had gone after the lighter is better path it would have been OK as well I believe.
What probably killed the NSX was a lack of focus on their target.
A Ferrari by the looks, a Porsche by the frendly attitude, a Lotus by the lightweight approach and surely a manufacturing cost close to a Bugatti:redface:

 

[EuroBoutique]

Hard to choose between these two. One is newer, the other older yet still very capable. Both are relatively bulletproof considering their performance. It is very easy to be attracted to the GT3/RS but once you let go of your NSX, specially if if it is in great original condition, you may never be able to find another gem like that in the future.

I read through all this debate but I think the above quote best summarizes the NSX. Yes you can spend more money but few can match what the NSX offers

 

[Ric]

Originally Posted by charm
. It is very easy to be attracted to the GT3/RS but once you let go of your NSX, specially if if it is in great original condition, you may never be able to find another gem like that in the future.

that's it. i am keeping my baby:biggrin:

 

[Meeyatch1]

I read through all this debate but I think the above quote best summarizes the NSX. Yes you can spend more money but few can match what the NSX offers

....which is why the NSX will be kept, and whatever is bought will be parked outside while the NSX keeps its garage spot.

 

[BATMANs]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/o-Q4KQrMCNA?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[racer9x]

that video keept me clenching, it was like pac man and all of a sudden f@#k, the trany. Looks like good driving skills and nice power; Wonder if it is any one hear, someone please step up and claim you're prize, and a list of questions such as mods, HP, etc...:smile:

 

[Jetpilot3]

You have to be brave to do track days...glad I experienced it in the past but wouldn't track an expensive car again unless I had alot more training.

That Evo and Corvette braking mid corner was scary...shouldn't they have the gas pedal planted and not lifting off especially braking???