NSX-R modifications & future values

[Patricio]

So I know NSX-R mods have been discussed many times over, but I'm wondering about what the future value holds for the OEM style NSX-R replicated cars. Especially NA1 coupes with swapped NA2 engines, 6-spd, ABS & type-r suspension.

Everyone knows the obvious low miles excellent condition original cars are always the most valuable.
but that does not interest me, I have better things to invest in than leaving a car in the garage for 20 years I can't drive.

So as far as regularly used cars go, will the properly done NSX-R replicas still carry a decent value over their high miles original car counterparts in the future?

Mods are generally bad for value but in the case of the NSX-R which is unavailable and and never produced int the US the case may be different.

I'm considering doing an all out type-r replica build, since the only way to get a real type-R would be to buy a real NSX-R in Japan for 150k now before they go up even more and then waiting 10 more years to maybe import it over here to US and then doing a left hand drive swap would be a complete sin, and then there is no way I would actually drive it on the street or occasional track day.
So whats the best way to build and own and hold value for an NSX-R aficionado. will the NSX-R replica desirability hold strong if so how much?

Whats the best way? start with NA-2 and weld the roof? or find a NA2 coupe and modify? or start with NA1 coupe and swap the NA2 engine, Trans & ABS? What would be the opinion of current value and future value of the different options of a properly done Type R conversion NA1 Coupe with NA2 swap?

My ideal swap would be be to start with NA1 coupe and install the NA2 C32, 6-speed & NSX-R ABS, NSX-R suspension and oem 02 front, and some other oem style Type-R parts.

-------------------------------------------------------------


UPDATE: if you can skip to page 3 or so and avoid the first few pages of authenticity talk and a headache and how I should have named the thread a little better

I am not asking about attempting to recreating a 100% authentic parts NSX-R and hoping it's worth as much as a real NSX-R

If anyone interested in modification and re-creating a functional and performing equal or better than NSX-R inspired car
discuss what mods will be most desirable and hold value relative to similar oem cars .

Not just slapping on NSX-R spoiler and CF hood and red seats and painting oem wheels white. that's just the look-a-like clone level....

Lets talk about really recreating the performance aspect of the nsx-r. really getting down to 2800-2600 lbs or less!
and being as fast or faster than a CTSC car with N/A bolt-ons

which NSX-R mods will be more desirable than others?
NA1 NSX-R or NA2 NSXR or half way in-between NA1/NA2 NSX-R with 02 front like I have so far?
3.0 engine or 3.2 engine is it worth the extra expense of putting a 3.2 into a NA1 coupe?
what the preferred build would include or not include
Do people just want the NSX-R look? or would they rather have the 8.1 Power to weight 2800lbs lightweight performance?
Welding the roof on the heavier NA2?
NA1 coupe with NA2 engine, 6-spd and abs?
Whats a reasonable value for a equal performing NSX-R build?
Whom would be rather buy one done that build one themselves
Weight reduction in a NSX-R themed build? frowned upon?
A/C removal? sound deadening removal? stereo removal, lighter divider window?
which of these things are you willing to do in your NSX-R build?
which of these mods are more desirable or acceptable when buying a already built NSX-R inspired/coned/replicated whatever?

So many possible questions besides authenticity of parts, since it will never be a real one anyway, and a 10k oem hood and 10k oem seats wont make any NSX one bit closer to a real NSX-R anyway!

 

[docjohn]

what is more important to you the look,or performance?

 

[prym8]

I was a little surprised how long it took Anil to sell his incredible replica. Instead of 5 minutes it was a few rounds of ebay etc.

 

[Jinks]

I think the main problem one might encounter buying a type r replica is them not knowing anything about it.
The regular nsx is pretty well known. Potential buyers probably know it very well and maybe they would not know too much about a real type r. I'd say, if you love the r model, hook it up. I doubt you will get back all of your investments though. There will be a lot of shop time and down time involved with all the type r conversions to the motor swap and transmission upgrades. Then there is the high cost of the type r suspension which is rumored as very non compliant and not comfy. Another turn off to selling it to buyers. Then there are the high dollar seats which are great for 20 year olds or 40 year olds that are 130 pounds. Try to remember that Oem parts reign supreme, all others are just cheap and not worth a whole lot. Either way, good luck with your decision. If you do make a replica I'd enjoy watching the build here on prime.:smile:

 

[Patricio]

what is more important to you the look,or performance?

Both, I'm into the performance and the look.

Have u ever dyno'd your 3.2 swap by any chance?

I was a little surprised how long it took Anil to sell his incredible replica. Instead of 5 minutes it was a few rounds of ebay etc.

Yeah that was suprising to me as well, but then again the economy wasent the best at the time and NSX prices had not started climbing like they are now. The bulk of the "NSX generation" is just getting to the point now where the can afford to buy the expensive old cars they dreamed about as teenagers. Just like every collectible car they start climbing when the average 16-18 your old that had the poster on their wall turns 40-45 years old and has money to burn.

I think the main problem one might encounter buying a type r replica is them not knowing anything about it.
The regular nsx is pretty well known. Potential buyers probably know it very well and maybe they would not know too much about a real type r. I'd say, if you love the r model, hook it up. I doubt you will get back all of your investments though. There will be a lot of shop time and down time involved with all the type r conversions to the motor swap and transmission upgrades. Then there is the high cost of the type r suspension which is rumored as very non compliant and not comfy. Another turn off to selling it to buyers. Then there are the high dollar seats which are great for 20 year olds or 40 year olds that are 130 pounds. Try to remember that Oem parts reign supreme, all others are just cheap and not worth a whole lot. Either way, good luck with your decision. If you do make a replica I'd enjoy watching the build here on prime.:smile:

agreed,
but even though it may be expensive, it wont cost as much as a real type-R that cant even be imported and has the steering wheel on the wrong side... lol.



--------------------------------------

Does any one know of any completed NA1 coupe builds with both NA2 engine & trans swaps?

 

[Stephen@NCAutoUSA]

There are type R conversions and then there are type R conversions. If you do it do it to the T. Truthfully I have no desire for parts that are outdated and there are better out there, but you'll always have purists.

As a concept to hold its value you'll need to do it right and do everything or not at all, period. Get real parts and everything. Vancehu and serial are well documented and well represented nsx r's. The others are just cars with type r parts.

 

[Honcho]

Couple things you need to know considering your plans. A modded car will never have the value of the original. That said, tasteful mods can find a willing buyer. My former car is a good example. The NSX-R is a well known factory trim that likely will be valued by future purchasers- even as a clone. But as mentioned above re Anil's car, you might have to wait longer to sell it to the "right" person.

Your best bet for a conversion is to start with a 91 that is in rough shape but with a straight body. Strip it down and replace everything worn with new Honda parts. The factory NSX-R suspension is discontinued, but you can find examples on the used market (get the NSX-R sawy bar to make sure you match to the suspension). Find a used/wrecked 3.2 and 6-speed and have them rebuilt by SoS or someone with the same level of NSX knowledge. Get the 4.23 diff and 2-spline mainshaft from Japan and fit the factory twin clutch. If you are really crazy you can source NA2 trunk, doors, fenders and rear quarters- they are made with a thinner gauge aluminum and lighter than NA1. Get a CF hood from Procar and a wing from Pride- I hear their replica is very close to the original. NSX-R wheels are available on the used market and you can get the tires from Japan or tire rack special order. Get the seats from Downforce in the OEM red and you can get close-matching red carpet from tfent. The Momo Tuner 350mm steering wheel is the same as OEM NSX-R and you can find NSX-R gauge clusters out there too. Have the body painted the factory champ white (don't forget the NA2 headlights too- they must be white) and you've got one heck of a replica.

As for mods, be careful here. Anil's car was amazing, but it did deviate quite far from the Honda formula. I would suggest headers, high-flow cats and the exhaust of your choice that is not a pretzel. Have SoS build it for high compression and use their hot cams. Get an Infinity 8 ECU (not the 6- it only monitors one cylinder bank) and RDX 410 injectors and have the car tuned. Invest in a good radiator like a Koyo or PWR (the factory NSX-R overheats after 5 hard laps because the factory rad is not sufficient to handle the extra heat from the 3.2). I'd stop there. Any more and it turns into an expensive kit car.

 

[Patricio]

There are type R conversions and then there are type R conversions. If you do it do it to the T. Truthfully I have no desire for parts that are outdated and there are better out there, but you'll always have purists.

As a concept to hold its value you'll need to do it right and do everything or not at all, period. Get real parts and everything. Vancehu and serial are well documented and well represented nsx r's. The others are just cars with type r parts.

agreed.
although i think quality replica parts such as the parts you make as well as downforce, pride and procar are acceptable.. since the OEM prices is just ridiculous and will just be an un-necessary expense since it will never match real nsxr in value

Couple things you need to know considering your plans. A modded car will never have the value of the original. That said, tasteful mods can find a willing buyer. My former car is a good example. The NSX-R is a well known factory trim that likely will be valued by future purchasers- even as a clone. But as mentioned above re Anil's car, you might have to wait longer to sell it to the "right" person.

Your best bet for a conversion is to start with a 91 that is in rough shape but with a straight body. Strip it down and replace everything worn with new Honda parts. The factory NSX-R suspension is discontinued, but you can find examples on the used market (get the NSX-R sawy bar to make sure you match to the suspension). Find a used/wrecked 3.2 and 6-speed and have them rebuilt by SoS or someone with the same level of NSX knowledge. Get the 4.23 diff and 2-spline mainshaft from Japan and fit the factory twin clutch. If you are really crazy you can source NA2 trunk, doors, fenders and rear quarters- they are made with a thinner gauge aluminum and lighter than NA1. Get a CF hood from Procar and a wing from Pride- I hear their replica is very close to the original. NSX-R wheels are available on the used market and you can get the tires from Japan or tire rack special order. Get the seats from Downforce in the OEM red and you can get close-matching red carpet from tfent. The Momo Tuner 350mm steering wheel is the same as OEM NSX-R and you can find NSX-R gauge clusters out there too. Have the body painted the factory champ white (don't forget the NA2 headlights too- they must be white) and you've got one heck of a replica.

As for mods, be careful here. Anil's car was amazing, but it did deviate quite far from the Honda formula. I would suggest headers, high-flow cats and the exhaust of your choice that is not a pretzel. Have SoS build it for high compression and use their hot cams. Get an Infinity 8 ECU (not the 6- it only monitors one cylinder bank) and RDX 410 injectors and have the car tuned. Invest in a good radiator like a Koyo or PWR (the factory NSX-R overheats after 5 hard laps because the factory rad is not sufficient to handle the extra heat from the 3.2). I'd stop there. Any more and it turns into an expensive kit car.

Agreed.
NA1 with NA2 engine/6-psd is the best place to start

BTW, I have the infinity 6. it uses 1 uego standard but, i was told by SOS it can monitor 2 banks since it has 2 open ports to add a second uego and you still have one more left?

 

[Zoom]

There is also the engine cover, electrical plugs with the black cover, the black cover water tank, a specific ABS that is tuned for sticky tires... Also if you start from an NA1 you'll have differences in chassis, body panels, front and rear bumper bars, etc. (see the wiki for the full list). A much easier way (if we consider the amount of work, relatively) would be to start with a NA2 coupe. And then there's the interior covered in alcantara, the specific carpet (lighter, no rubber) and all the small details that a purist will notice.
IMHO that's not worth the trouble if you consider resale value which will never be that of a true NSX-R.

 

[Patricio]

There is also the engine cover, electrical plugs with the black cover, the black cover water tank, a specific ABS that is tuned for sticky tires... Also if you start from an NA1 you'll have differences in chassis, body panels, front and rear bumper bars, etc. (see the wiki for the full list). A much easier way (if we consider the amount of work, relatively) would be to start with a NA2 coupe. And then there's the interior covered in alcantara, the specific carpet (lighter, no rubber) and all the small details that a purist will notice.
IMHO that's not worth the trouble if you consider resale value which will never be that of a true NSX-R.

I agree, but the only part I don't agree with is, starting with an impossible to find NA2 coupe would be sacrificing an already rare car. And I think its heavier than a NA1, since the 2712lbs NA1 NSX-R was lighter than the 2810lbs NA2 NSX-R so starting with NA1 body can get best of both worlds. and deleting the heavy power steering from any NA2 coupe will be a pain.

But yes it would be pointless to bother with the all the small items mentioned are not worthy of even being replicated, no point in trying to satisfy a purist with tid bits on a replica. Plus Hamond on top gear did have a point on his NSX-R review that "honda was just fiddling with sh*t"... NA2 body panels are only grams lighter also, no point there either. And the engine cover never made sense to me. Why cover such a beautiful piece of engineering? Aluminum bumper beams are easy to replicate (although there are real aluminum NSX front beams on yahoo japan sometimes cheap), I did mine myself as many other have. But yes of course the ABS is on the list, And the lighter non-rubber carpet is available custom order from TFT. anyone can specifically ask for no rubber backing ( So far I'm the only person that has ever ordered it that way from him ).




.............................................................................

I guess the main components to an ultimate street driven NSX-R are:

Chassis / drivetrain:
NA1 91-94 Coupe body with 3.2 engine, 6 speed & NSX-R suspension, NSX-R ABS and LSD, NSX-R uses NA1 front brakes and NA2 rear brakes

Weight reduction:
NA1 NSX-R 2700lb weight, aluminum beams, sound deadening, divider window, non-rubber carpet, delete tools/spare, titanium headers / exhaust, li-po battery

Aero and appearence:
Quality replica spoiler, hood, seats and 02 front conversion, front underbody aero, and radiator duct

everything else is trivial..... and the lighter NA1 2700 lbs weight should make up for the 10-15whp less than a real balanced 3.2 type R engine.

Should be doable for 75k or so which is not bad considering half price of real NSX-R with no real difference at that point.
I would further reduce to 2500lbs like my car already is now and run AEM infinity tuned for E85 and get closer to 305-310whp / 350 crank hp

The goal is to retain most of the future value with a proper build and avoid non-reversible modifications, and not destroying any NSX's future.

Some info some people may not realize about the NSX-R weight reduction; that it does not have power door locks nor power mirrors and the 2810lbs weight does NOT Include A/C or stereo since they are optional accessories. So a real NA2 NSX-R with A/C and stereo would be about 2900lbs

here a good press release that's been hiding in nsxprime galleries for while, just came across it in a very old thread a while ago
http://www.nsxprime.com/Gallery/press/020309.pdf

 

[greenberet]

Kaz, one of the engineers who designed the original NSX, listed some of the things that set the NSX-R apart from regular NSXs here and here.

There are lots and lots of differences and it seems some of the original Type-R parts are no longer available. You can modify an NSX to be a "tribute" to the NSX-R but as Kaz said, "You’ll never be able to create Type-R by modifying the standard Coupe…".

Even an all-out Type-R build therefore cannot be more than a "tribute" car. A collector will probably always rather invest in the real thing so the financial return on modifications is going to be iffy. If you want to drive the car, I say carry out those modifications that increase your enjoyment of it, thinking twice about modifications that can't be undone.

 

[docjohn]

buy detlifs car....

 

[Patricio]

Kaz, one of the engineers who designed the original NSX, listed some of the things that set the NSX-R apart from regular NSXs here and here.

There are lots and lots of differences and it seems some of the original Type-R parts are no longer available. You can modify an NSX to be a "tribute" to the NSX-R but as Kaz said, "You’ll never be able to create Type-R by modifying the standard Coupe…".

Even an all-out Type-R build therefore cannot be more than a "tribute" car. A collector will probably always rather invest in the real thing so the financial return on modifications is going to be iffy. If you want to drive the car, I say carry out those modifications that increase your enjoyment of it, thinking twice about modifications that can't be undone.

Yes, this is not necessarily about attempting to replicate for the sake of replication or just a tribute.
It's more about re-creating the NSX-R experience in way that does not negativity affect the value of a driven car much.
I think 75K for a 350 rank / 2600lbs is well worth it.
that's a 7.42 power to weight which should be as fast or faster overall around a track than a new GT4 or stock GTR or 997 GT3

 

[01a4man]

Yes, this is not necessarily about attempting to replicate for the sake of replication or just a tribute.
It's more about re-creating the NSX-R experience in way that does not negativity affect the value of a driven car much.
I think 75K for a 350 rank / 2600lbs is well worth it.
that's a 7.42 power to weight which should be as fast or faster overall around a track than a new GT4 or stock GTR or 997 GT3

You seriously have no idea what you are getting into. Anil's car sold for the value it did for a couple of reasons. First, he used top-self parts which few can afford. Second, he went all out with it and created something that no one else had done. In doing so, he created a following for the car that allowed him to find the right buyer for it.

The simple answer to your question is no, throwing some parts on the car is not going to give you a "genuine feel," nor will it aid in maintaining your vehicle's present and/or future value whatsoever. The simple truth is that very few of us will ever know what it is like driving or even riding in a real NSX-R.

I would suggest that you take some of that $75k and go to the next NSX Fiesta. I think that will give you a better appreciation for the car and help you realize that your goal in "re-creating the NSX-R experience" will be a lot more in-depth and a lot more expensive than you initially realized and would not be a wise investment unless you intend to devote your time, money, money again, and self into this project.

 

[greenberet]

I think a 2600 lb NSX with 350 crank horsepower sounds like a fantastic project. Honda was still shackled by their 280 horsepower gentleman's agreement when the NSX-R was built. 350 horsepower doesn't re-create an NSX-R, it goes well beyond. If your intent is to create a modified NSX that can spank a stock Cayman GT4, 997 GT3, or GTR on the track, great! I've modified my NSX a lot, too.

If you start with a stock NSX and hope your NSX-R modifications won't decrease the value of the base car much, they probably won't as long as you aren't in a rush to sell and can wait for the right buyer. If you find the right buyer, the value of the modified car may equal to, or in rare instances be higher than, the value of the unmolested original car you started with. You may only have to write off all the money you put into the modifications, not part of the value of the car itself.

From a purely financial standpoint, buying a stock NSX and modifying it will almost certainly be an awful investment. Modify your NSX for the enjoyment it will give you, not because it's a smart investment!

 

[Patricio]

You seriously have no idea what you are getting into. Anil's car sold for the value it did for a couple of reasons. First, he used top-self parts which few can afford. Second, he went all out with it and created something that no one else had done. In doing so, he created a following for the car that allowed him to find the right buyer for it.

The simple answer to your question is no, throwing some parts on the car is not going to give you a "genuine feel," nor will it aid in maintaining your vehicle's present and/or future value whatsoever. The simple truth is that very few of us will ever know what it is like driving or even riding in a real NSX-R.

I would suggest that you take some of that $75k and go to the next NSX Fiesta. I think that will give you a better appreciation for the car and help you realize that your goal in "re-creating the NSX-R experience" will be a lot more in-depth and a lot more expensive than you initially realized and would not be a wise investment unless you intend to devote your time, money, money again, and self into this project.

Thanks for your advice, not sure I need to go to NSX fiesta to see NSX's, I've owned 3 NSX's so far, Including the one I have now for almost 10 years. and have hosted quite a few nsx gatherings when I lived up north.
Anil's car was a garage queen with expensive and unnecessarily expensive parts, that's not the goal here. I'm not trying to fool someone into thinking its a real type-R. and affordability is not an issue, what I can afford to buy, and choose to buy for is two different things, I could afford to buy many real Type-r's... I'm frugal, the reasons I choose not buy, is why I could afford to buy.

What I do know is that according to my track times compared to newer 911 GT3's I've already created a much lighter and as fast or likely faster than an original NSX-R.
I'm looking to further improve that.

The NSX-R is not really that far off from a regular NSX chassis, there's no major UN-replicatable custom parts that make a world of a difference.
its not like honda relocated the suspensions arms and widened the rear track 12 inches and moved the engine 10 inches towards the middle or used some special sequential box..
An NA1 coupe with 3.2 6-speed, KW's, NT01's and NSX-R replica hood and spoiler and weight reduction down to 2600-2700lbs is already 99% of what makes an NSX-R do what it does, and possibly faster already.
everything else is as true, as hammond in top gear said in his review " honda was just fiddling with sh*t"

I think a 2600 lb NSX with 350 crank horsepower sounds like a fantastic project. Honda was still shackled by their 280 horsepower gentleman's agreement when the NSX-R was built. 350 horsepower doesn't re-create an NSX-R, it goes well beyond. If your intent is to create a modified NSX that can spank a stock Cayman GT4, 997 GT3, or GTR on the track, great! I've modified my NSX a lot, too.

If you start with a stock NSX and hope your NSX-R modifications won't decrease the value of the base car much, they probably won't as long as you aren't in a rush to sell and can wait for the right buyer. If you find the right buyer, the value of the modified car may equal to, or in rare instances be higher than, the value of the unmolested original car you started with. You may only have to write off all the money you put into the modifications, not part of the value of the car itself.

From a purely financial standpoint, buying a stock NSX and modifying it will almost certainly be an awful investment. Modify your NSX for the enjoyment it will give you, not because it's a smart investment!

I must say, I've read allot of your posts many times over throughout the years, and really appreciate all the input and information you have contributed to this forum, the top speed tests, the N/A power attempts, all great stuff. Thanks!

Yeah from an investment standpoint I'm not really looking to gain, anything that will be driven will depreciate, well aware there are better investments than cars.
But of course I do not wish to destroy its value either, as long as the car value itself keeps up with other properly driven cars I'd be happy.
And any NSX will still cost less than a GT3 to own operate and maintain in the long run

Well I'm at 2500lbs and about 330whp already which is about 7.55 power to weight which is already 7% faster than the OEM NSX-R that came in around 8.11 P/W (346hp crank) plus having a 310lb less weight (11% lighter) than NSX-R and maybe slightly better weight balance since I still have A/C components weight in the front.
The videos I've posted lately show lap times already comparable to most older GT3's and stock GTR according to lap times discussed posted on rennlist.com and gtrlife.com

I may just do the 3.2 and 6spd swap to my current car that already is NSX-R themed and buy a second salvage car to do the other turbo track build instead of starting the NSX-R from scratch

If I can save another 50 to 100lbs now and get that 3.2 to 350 crank HP (305whp on E85 about 305whp) that will be a 6.71 P/W which should be smashing GT4 and older GT3's and stock GTR's..... and on pace with those new super fast 911 GT3's ... that's serious potential for anyone else considering a better than NSX-R conversion

 

[docjohn]

If i read corectly you ask about something you do not intend do do....you had a great track day with a pro driver as coach ...you got real excited and impressed with the car because its old and could still compete...you are competative..as many of us weekend track guys are......what you really want is to build an allout track day nsx with na power and just enough to keep it street legal....well thats been done a bunch of times..DA SOS,Vasos...all have had experience .....then take that formula add turbo and more aero and you go even faster...in FX trim you become a world class TA car.......forget about complicating things with any and all type R comparos....

- - - Updated - - -

btw I never dynoed the 3.2...never felt the need,I needed an engine at the time and this one popped up fs...I was lucky to have a 96 which could handle the management of the 3.2...

 

[Patricio]

If i read corectly you ask about something you do not intend do do....you had a great track day with a pro driver as coach ...you got real excited and impressed with the car because its old and could still compete...you are competative..as many of us weekend track guys are......what you really want is to build an allout track day nsx with na power and just enough to keep it street legal....well thats been done a bunch of times..DA SOS,Vasos...all have had experience .....then take that formula add turbo and more aero and you go even faster...in FX trim you become a world class TA car.......forget about complicating things with any and all type R comparos....

Nope i still have one clear goal which is their can not be any indication of it being a "track car" my goal has always been to have no apparent indication of serious weight reduction while in or out of the car. I still want to take it to Sunday car shows and take the wife out occasionally and not have a "stripped NSX".

I don't think any of the cars you mention had full interior and A/C,

No harsh non-compliance bits, no overly stiff bars, no non-compliance brackets and beams , no lexan, ect ect.
even at my current 2500lbs it's a 100% street car with A/C, with power windows, power mirrors, power locks, glass windows, carpets and panels and a nexus tablet in JDM navigation pod.

FWIW. I was a sponsored driver of a One lap of America E46 M3 and did a couple seasons for TopKart company in tag 125cc and have allot of track days already under my belt, and have explored some semi-professional racing in the past but chose my business instead, which i would never regret BTW..... Driving with billy did sharpen my abilities and re-awaken my N/A NSX-R themed desires since last time I drove the car on track it was 2800lbs with about 10 hp less. And without taking anything away from billy's coaching, it was phenomenal and quite an experience and I learned a few things and shaved 1-2 seconds off my time, but that was not the first time I learned how to drive on a track. It was only my second time at homestead and first time at any track in 2-3 years.



---------

I'm not aware of anyone on this forum that has achieved 2500lbs with all the street car amenities which I intend to retain. Which is more inline with the NSX-R approach... Thus this discussion is about more than just the usual strip the car and take it to the track approach or the just make it look like a type R like Anyils car which was probably still 3100-3000lbs at best. which is no N/A performer by any means. Don't know why everyone gets so exited over that build.. did he ever weigh it, test it, or time it? what makes it even close to an NSX-R just expensive parts and welding a targa closed? makes no sense to me it was far what really makes a type R. It was not a lightweight coupe.

Has anyone really recreated a NSX-R inspired 2700-2800lbs coupe with a 3.2?


The goal here is discussing reaching NSX-R looks and the performance in a realistic approach that will retain future value.

 

[docjohn]

I have read about your expoits.......you are trapped in a triangle.......one side is your love of the nsx...the other is your need of all the creature comforts of a street car...and the last is your ability to drive quickly.......I will be curious to see what you end up with.....btw you should really just buy and mod a zanardi....or wait for some unfortunate owner of one to ding it up....

 

[Patricio]

I have read about your expoits.......you are trapped in a triangle.......one side is your love of the nsx...the other is your need of all the creature comforts of a street car...and the last is your ability to drive quickly.......I will be curious to see what you end up with.....btw you should really just buy and mod a zanardi....or wait for some unfortunate owner of one to ding it up....

that's a correct assessment of my dilemmas

I thought about the zanardi, but as u mention, I can't see myself modifying an original one, destroying its value....
finding/building a salvage title one has its own problems and then regaurding the future value 10-20 years down the road would be a major drawback.

i made this thread not just for myself but for any other new or current owners. To revive the potential of the lightweight N/A NSX, over time so many more weight reduction techniques have been found and I felt the duty to put it out there that N/A is not dead, the NSX still has allot of potential fun left on the table compared to the new cars.
I feel like the NSX just refuses to give up confusing the enemy. maybe senna's ghost is still pushing NSX'S to get faster by the year.

 

[Zoom]

I'm going light weight and N/A with my NA2 coupe Only reversible mods though, so i may not go as far as you. Still, almost got the full Downforce attire and Spoon mirrors (they weigh nothing compared to OEM), i'm still 50/50 about the seats (original ones are so comfy..) and building a nice exhaust line overall (started with the Toda Ti catback). So that's not NSX-R, that's.. NSX-DF ? Also going for these improved engine mounts, alternator mount, ATI damper, etc. etc.

 

[01a4man]

Thanks for your advice, not sure I need to go to NSX fiesta to see NSX's, I've owned 3 NSX's so far, Including the one I have now for almost 10 years. and have hosted quite a few nsx gatherings when I lived up north.
Anil's car was a garage queen with expensive and unnecessarily expensive parts, that's not the goal here. I'm not trying to fool someone into thinking its a real type-R. and affordability is not an issue, what I can afford to buy, and choose to buy for is two different things, I could afford to buy many real Type-r's... I'm frugal, the reasons I choose not buy, is why I could afford to buy.

What I do know is that according to my track times compared to newer 911 GT3's I've already created a much lighter and as fast or likely faster than an original NSX-R.
I'm looking to further improve that.

The NSX-R is not really that far off from a regular NSX chassis, there's no major UN-replicatable custom parts that make a world of a difference.
its not like honda relocated the suspensions arms and widened the rear track 12 inches and moved the engine 10 inches towards the middle or used some special sequential box..
An NA1 coupe with 3.2 6-speed, KW's, NT01's and NSX-R replica hood and spoiler and weight reduction down to 2600-2700lbs is already 99% of what makes an NSX-R do what it does, and possibly faster already.
everything else is as true, as hammond in top gear said in his review " honda was just fiddling with sh*t"

I think you have mistaken what I have said. There is no question about what you can afford, how much you have in your savings account, trophy wife comparo, penis size, or anything else for that matter. I too have owned multiple NSXs, but that has absolutely zero with what I am talking about.

Perhaps the issue is that I misread your post. You started off asking about NSX-R parts and value. You stated that you wanted to re-create an NSX-R "experience." It is for this very reason that I recommended getting seat time in one.

I would be vary careful in saying that the two cars are not that different. Greenberet has already pointed out various differences between the cars as described by one of the engineers that created it. Honda has provided very little information overall on what has gone into the NSX-Rs and NSX-R GTs. In addition, there have been many changes to the regular NSXs throughout the car during its production run.

I made my recommendation because more goes into the "feel," as you describe it, than simply doing an engine and transmission swap. It is clear now in your subsequent posts that you are interested in NSX-R "like" performance and not overall feel.

Ferrari, Lamborghini, or other such cars are special due to the overall package and not just because they look pretty or go fast. A set of Sparco's will never give you the same "feel" as genuine NSX-R seats. Just because cars are built on similar chassis, it does not make them the same.

Unfortunately what you are trying to do is counterproductive to your desired end-state of maintaining the car's value. If you do not want to get into removing all the sound deadening material; creating your own, or buying billet parts (i.e. alternator bracket, engine mounts, etc.); utilizing NSX-R parts such as the single pane cockpit glass, and other such expensive components; it will be difficult for you to reach your overall goal.

To follow DocJohn's advice would be more realistic. Build a dedicated track car and do what you want with it. There can be a happy medium, but will that be enough to satisfy your desired end-state?

 

[Patricio]

I think you have mistaken what I have said. There is no question about what you can afford, how much you have in your savings account, trophy wife comparo, penis size, or anything else for that matter. I too have owned multiple NSXs, but that has absolutely zero with what I am talking about.

Perhaps the issue is that I misread your post. You started off asking about NSX-R parts and value. You stated that you wanted to re-create an NSX-R "experience." It is for this very reason that I recommended getting seat time in one.

I would be vary careful in saying that the two cars are not that different. Greenberet has already pointed out various differences between the cars as described by one of the engineers that created it. Honda has provided very little information overall on what has gone into the NSX-Rs and NSX-R GTs. In addition, there have been many changes to the regular NSXs throughout the car during its production run.

I made my recommendation because more goes into the "feel," as you describe it, than simply doing an engine and transmission swap. It is clear now in your subsequent posts that you are interested in NSX-R "like" performance and not overall feel.

Ferrari, Lamborghini, or other such cars are special due to the overall package and not just because they look pretty or go fast. A set of Sparco's will never give you the same "feel" as genuine NSX-R seats. Just because cars are built on similar chassis, it does not make them the same.

Unfortunately what you are trying to do is counterproductive to your desired end-state of maintaining the car's value. If you do not want to get into removing all the sound deadening material; creating your own, or buying billet parts (i.e. alternator bracket, engine mounts, etc.); utilizing NSX-R parts such as the single pane cockpit glass, and other such expensive components; it will be difficult for you to reach your overall goal.

To follow DocJohn's advice would be more realistic. Build a dedicated track car and do what you want with it. There can be a happy medium, but will that be enough to satisfy your desired end-state?

Please don't take offense... Yes there are some misunderstandings since you may have not read all of the posts above. especially post 10, if you did read it you would not assume that i was a neophyte in NSX-R differences and that I think the engine and tranny are the only modifications I would make to make an NSX-R, and not do the sound deadening and single partition glass. which was also included in my part of my post 10

You mentioned a couple billet parts that are not part of any NSX-R, thus you may not know, I am one of the few people that already own a light weight alternator bracket (foundrys are not available yet) that made as a one off in Australia and no that part was never even featured as NSX-R part and billet motor mounts don't save any weight and are also not part of the NSX-R either. the nsx-r did not have any billet aluminum parts to anyone knowledge on the site.

I did not get to 2500 lbs which is 300lbs lighter than NSX-R by never having researched the subject before. Your giving the NSX engineers allot more credit than due, by now everyone is quite aware of what mods where done to an NSX-R, but you are correct regarding the NSX-RGT is very lightly documented, but not part of this discussion..

I was not comparing penis size, just simply stating that trying to achieve NSX-R level of performance is not some unattainable cost, it can be done for allot less than a real type-r which also can't be imported here anyway. And it can be done for allot less than new cars it can still compete with. If could buy import a real NSX-R in left hand drive i would probably do so and it would holds its value as a great investment. But until then I'm left to try to match the NSX-R performace and feel, without wasting allot of cash that I will never get back.... which bothers me allot more than investing 150k into a real NSX-R

As far as seats, its a recaro, you can buy it used and the only thing you cant get is the exact material since it was exclusive contract with Honda. as far a comfort goes that's fan boy talk, out of the hundreds of racing seats out there never once has any one on any other forum or racer I know I've ever heard of go crazy over the same oem sparco that has been made for decades now. but even then if you insist used 10k seats that will still be worth 10k later when your done with them and can sell them later does not make it cost prohibitive either. and wont put a dent in the true 150K-200k plus cost of a real NSX-R

 

[JD Cross]

This is a very interesting thread.
Are we perhaps confusing some issues here?

All the Japanese special edition NSX's ( R,S etc.) are RHD drive, well documented, and if unmodified hold their value as limited volume factory specials.
In N America our special edition was the Zanardi and as a factory special also is holding it's value.
Other marques (Porsche, Ferrari etc.) also have their special editions and if unmodified also hold their values.
In short you can't expect a replica of a factory special to achieve the same value as a factory original no matter how much you spend.
Ferrari Daytona replicas are a good example of this.
I replica is just that, a copy of something, and copies don't have the same value as an original.

Modifying an NSX to perform at a higher level than in it's original factory condition is a common event and there are dozens of examples including your own.
Some like Lostbuckeye's (my fav modified NSX) are very fast and powerful and competitive with modern cars in this segment.

I guess my point is there is a range of NSX's that include the stock base models, the stock factory specials, and moving through to lightly and highly modified units.
You can modify an NSX to be a Zanardi clone and it may perform like a Zanardi but won't have the value of an Zanardi.
You can build a Type-R clone and it may perform like a Type R but again won't have the value of a Type-R.

I think the value reasons are straightforward.
A stock NSX, NSX-R, NSX-S,NSX Zanardi (or other marque for that matter) has appeal to the greatest number of buyers and so the greatest demand.
Generally once a car is modified, some buyers are alienated, the appeal is reduced, so demand is reduced and price gets reduced, sometimes regardless of the cost of the modifications.

So if you go all the way to making a Type-R or Type-R Plus replica it won't have either the aura, the feel or the value of an original Type-R.
And that's because it isn't a Type-R.

However it may be faster than a real Type-R and competitive with the more modern cars you would like to compete with.

 

[Patricio]

So I know NSX-R mods have been discussed many times over, but I'm wondering about what the future value holds for the OEM style NSX-R replicated cars. Especially NA1 coupes with swapped NA2 engines, 6-spd, ABS & type-r suspension.

Everyone knows the obvious low miles excellent condition original cars are always the most valuable.
but that does not interest me, I have better things to invest in than leaving a car in the garage for 20 years I can't drive.

So as far as regularly used cars go, will the properly done NSX-R replicas still carry a decent value over their high miles original car counterparts in the future?

Mods are generally bad for value but in the case of the NSX-R which is unavailable and and never produced int the US the case may be different.

I'm considering doing an all out type-r replica build, since the only way to get a real type-R would be to buy a real NSX-R in Japan for 150k now before they go up even more and then waiting 10 more years to maybe import it over here to US and then doing a left hand drive swap would be a complete sin, and then there is no way I would actually drive it on the street or occasional track day.
So whats the best way to build and own and hold value for an NSX-R aficionado. will the NSX-R replica desirability hold strong if so how much?

Whats the best way? start with NA-2 and weld the roof? or find a NA2 coupe and modify? or start with NA1 coupe and swap the NA2 engine, Trans & ABS? What would be the opinion of current value and future value of the different options of a properly done Type R conversion NA1 Coupe with NA2 swap?

My ideal swap would be be to start with NA1 coupe and install the NA2 C32, 6-speed & NSX-R ABS, NSX-R suspension and oem 02 front, and some other oem style Type-R parts.

I guess I have to re-quote my own original post since there seams to be a complete misunderstanding of the subject I brought up for some people.

I am not trying to replicate the value of a NSX-R that is impossible. Never was that implied, maybe I improperly wrote the thread?

All I asked is will driven NSX-R modded cars continue to hold up value along with their driven high millage regular NSX counter parts.
Meaning that right now its a fact that NSX-R style builds and mods are now desirable, and do carry a bit of a premium over regular NSX's (I'm referring to 100k mile cars not 10k original collector purist garage queens) Will this trend continue?

I'm well aware buying a real NSX-R would be a decent investment, but since you can not import an NSX-R and of course I'm aware there are none left hand drive, and I don't find even remotely fun to drive right hand drive in the US. than the only alternative in the US is to continue to create NSX-R inspired replica. Its understood like most mods that most of the money spent creating an NSX-R replica will be gone, but the question is will it be worth less, equal or slightly more than a equal millage stock NSX.

The subject is what are the most important mods? where does the law of diminishing return get completely foolish?
Example is it fair to think a 100k mile NA1 coupe with NA2 engine,trans,ABS and other supporting NSX-R weight mods sell for 10-20k over a 100,000 mile oem car? Say comparable to most turbo cars that also carry a 10-20k premium over oem with comparable millage. In other words I see nothing wrong with spending 75k building a decent NSX-R replica enjoying it for a few years and getting back 50-60k, since there is no other alternative to enjoy the NSX-R experience in the US. And anything generally unobtainable comes with a cost.

My freind imports skyline GTR'S and Silvia's and supras on a monthly basis, He's very well known and knows all the loop holes and tricks, He tried to import an NA1 NSXR for me, and we ended up shipping it back.

Now can some people stop telling me you can not recreate a respectable NSX-R inspired build when a few people here already have including myself?
It's not like there are 5 NSX-R's for sale in the US right now on ebay and I'm being a cheap a** by trying to recreate one.
They don't exist... therefore the discussion is how much is it worth spending making one before it becomes foolish? 60k 70k 80k 90k? Will they be worth 10k -20k more than an equal millage stock nsx?

I doubt I will consider this venture a waste of my time and money and miss out out on the full NSX-R experience just because I don't get the OEM $10K hood and $10k oem seats and alcantra interior. seriously? Is this a Mercedes discussion or NSX-R discussion?

- - - Updated - - -

buy detlifs car....

Thanks Doc,
Is his car for sale?
where can find info and details?
i could not find a for sale thread.