NSX or Ferrari?

[kgb_agent]

There is some fact but a lot of misinformation on this thread. Normal Ferrari costs are not 15K per year. Do you really think that even wealthy collectors want to pay 20-30% of the value of the car every year? Yes, 348 & 355 services are very expensive, but even with Ferrari's new recommendations of every three years (it was five originally) that's about $7500 every three years for the (theoretically) biggest service, not $15K per year. dkny-nsx mentions budget and money. Someone else recommends the 360. A decent '99 360 is going to run minimally 2X the price of a nice 348 so that doesn't make financial sense. If performance is even a consideration, stay away from the 308's & 328's. They are prehistoric pigs compared to the NSX. Even the 348 was beaten by the NSX, prompting the F355. Style is subjective, but the 348 shares many of the same body parts as the 355 and has the same stance....so, aside from the cheese graters and minor front/rear grill treatments, I'm a little perplexed by those who love the asthetics of the 355 but hate the 348. I believe that most bugs, alternator/electric issues, maybe some manifold problems should be worked out of the well-maintained 348's by now. Much of the 348's nasty reputation has been perpetuated by Luca's comments and magazine write-ups from the early 90's. Get the Forza buyer's guide if you are pursuing a Ferrari.

 

[qirex]

348s Suck

Awful compared to the 355.

My point re: the 360 vs the 355 is that yes REALLY a 355 WILL cost you ~$8k a year if you put 10k miles on it.

The 360 will cost you far less.

I almost bought a 355, but balked when the dealer told me straight up re: these costs. Thats just stuff thats SCHEDULED. imagine the cost of a mishap or an engine suspension prob. I'm not sure, but I imagine you can pick up and abused, yet nicely detailed 348 for $50k.

Sure its a ferrari, but i'd rather spend more and have more.

you get what you pay for.

 

[F1VTEC]

There is some fact but a lot of misinformation on this thread. Normal Ferrari costs are not 15K per year. Do you really think that even wealthy collectors want to pay 20-30% of the value of the car every year? Yes, 348 & 355 services are very expensive, but even with Ferrari's new recommendations of every three years (it was five originally) that's about $7500 every three years for the (theoretically) biggest service, not $15K per year. dkny-nsx mentions budget and money. Someone else recommends the 360. A decent '99 360 is going to run minimally 2X the price of a nice 348 so that doesn't make financial sense. If performance is even a consideration, stay away from the 308's & 328's. They are prehistoric pigs compared to the NSX. Even the 348 was beaten by the NSX, prompting the F355. Style is subjective, but the 348 shares many of the same body parts as the 355 and has the same stance....so, aside from the cheese graters and minor front/rear grill treatments, I'm a little perplexed by those who love the asthetics of the 355 but hate the 348. I believe that most bugs, alternator/electric issues, maybe some manifold problems should be worked out of the well-maintained 348's by now. Much of the 348's nasty reputation has been perpetuated by Luca's comments and magazine write-ups from the early 90's. Get the Forza buyer's guide if you are pursuing a Ferrari.

While I agree with most of your post, every Ferrari V8 models have different maintainance cost associated with them. I am very familiar with F355 and I can talk about real life cost and potential cost for the car. An engine out service on F355 to replace belt and pump is $3,500-$5,000, depending on where you go for service. This is recommended every 15k or 5 years. The "while you are there" parts can add up and more often than not double that figure. So, you are correct to estimate $7,500 for the engine out service. But some of the costs for potential problems with very good possibility of happening can represent significant percentage of the car's value. I plan to get an F355 to complement my NSX, and have been doing a lot of digging from the F-car forums and friends that own them. As some of you know, almost the entire production runs of F355 are affected by valve guide issue. Only late 98 model year build and the 99 model year builds are built with the stronger steel guides. All 95 thru early 98s F355s have bronze guides, that potentially can disintegrate and taking out the piston(s) with them. If this happens, you are looking at anywhere between $20,000 to $35,000 to fund your favorite mechanic's college fund, as you are looking to put a new set of valve trains and maybe a piston or two (a single F355 piston is about $7,000 parts only). Not to mention if the Cylinder lining is damaged in the process. And yes, I have seen the valve guide fix receipt in the amount of $28,000 for parts and labor. It was done in an independent shop. I would be scared to see one from an authorized F-car stealer. Considering F355's market value, this fix alone might cost about 50% of the car value.

While not all 95-98 cars have required a rebuild, the number of casualties are high enough that you have to set aside coins for this potential debacle. It just simply not smart to ignore a costly potential problem if you are buying 95-98 F355. Since an F355 can get a good compression test and even a good leak down test, and develop the problems over couple months period. Of course you dont have to consider it if the car have had the fix done.

 

[Acura NsX Pilot]

I will be on a drive this sunday with a bunch of guys from F-Chat. We will be meeting on the palisades parkway at the first gas station northbound side at 7am. Come talk to the owners and there ownership experiences. I agree with NsxDreamer that a test drive is probably not the best thing because the initial thrill and feel you get from the car will make you want one but like some owners said after getting stuck in the middle of no where and not being able to start your car at times will make you ask yourself why you bought the car. But keeping in mind that these things can happen I would still test drive one and at least get am impression of the car. I drove a 355 before and was not impressed with the overall quality of the car and then there is the stress cracks you get in the paint where the A pilliars meet the body at the rear. My friend just completed his major service in which the engine had to be dropped out.....his total bill was a tad over 4k. PM me if you are coming this sunday.

 

[waldorf]

For me, a 355 would be a... maybe 3rd weekend car. If money were no object, the Countach was always my dream car as a kid until the NSX came out, but talk about maintenance costs... that thing is in a league of its own. When the NSX finally came out, it 'hit me' in all the right places, replaced the lambo posters on my wall, etc. so to me, the f-car would be a downgrade. *ducks* (I know it's hard for the prancing horse faithful to even entertain that. )

 

[kgb_agent]

While not all 95-98 cars have required a rebuild, the number of casualties are high enough that you have to set aside coins for this potential debacle. It just simply not smart to ignore a costly potential problem if you are buying 95-98 F355. Since an F355 can get a good compression test and even a good leak down test, and develop the problems over couple months period. Of course you dont have to consider it if the car have had the fix done.

F1VTEC,

I agree with most of your post as well. Your last paragraph's wording concerns me, especially the about valve guide problems developing within a couple of months after good compression and leakddown numbers. Where did you hear this?

Please see what I consider to be the most reliable information on the Internet about 355 valve guides by someone I know who KNOWS what he is talking about. It's all good reading; note Myth # 3 especially.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5554&highlight=valve

BTW, I have been on the track with Jon in his 355 Challenge and he is a great racer. A 355 will be my next sports car as well.

Cheers,
Kevin

 

[F1VTEC]

F1VTEC,

I agree with most of your post as well. Your last paragraph's wording concerns me, especially the about valve guide problems developing within a couple of months after good compression and leakddown numbers. Where did you hear this?

Please see what I consider to be the most reliable information on the Internet about 355 valve guides by someone I know who KNOWS what he is talking about. It's all good reading; note Myth # 3 especially.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5554&highlight=valve

BTW, I have been on the track with Jon in his 355 Challenge and he is a great racer. A 355 will be my next sports car as well.

Cheers,
Kevin

Hi Kevin,

I think that particular posted "fact" needs to be updated, as part of myth# 1 is actually a fact. He wrote: "....about half way through the 1995 model year the factory changed over to a different type of valve guide...". Since the fix receipt that I saw actually was for a 97 F355, I know for a fact that it is still a problem beyond 95 model year.

I am not sure why he said that it cannot happen anytime? But this 97 had 17k miles when it happened (considered high mileage for a Ferrari but not excessively high). About 1,500-2,000 miles prior to this happened, the car passed compression test, with only one bank very slightly outside the range, that the shop considered it to be "good". So if you drive the car regularly, this would have happened in couple of months.

Regardless, the F355 is IMO one of the most beautiful car ever made. It has the right styling, sounds, and performance. If you are looking for one, I would go for the the latest year. I do NOT know for a fact if these later cars do not have this issue, but from what I read, they are supposedly be excepted.

Happy hunting!

 

[W]

If you're looking for a garage queen, a Ferrari is a good choice. If you're looking for a daily driver and comparing an NSX to a Ferrari, they're not even close to the same league when it comes to cost to operate.

 

[Mike O]

dkny-nsx,

I have owned nearly 100 cars the past 19 years I've been married, including 12 Porsche 911's, several Vipers, a Shelby Cobra, over 30 mid year Corvettes, etc., but have never owned a Ferrari (or any Italian car for that matter).

Italian cars are beautiful to look at, but a pain in the a$$ to maintain. I have several friends who own Ferraris, but they spend way more time going out to the garage to look at them and wax them instead of driving them. A friend's 15k mile service on his 360 was $18,000 at Ferrari of Atlanta. That service alone will pay for 1/2 of an incredibly nice early NSX.

If I won a large Powerball lottery, I'd buy a 360 Spyder, and perhaps a Dino. But that's the only way a Ferrari would ever occupy a space in my garage.

Mike
'91 NSX (27,400 miles)
'96 Porsche 993 Cabriolet
'65 Corvette
GTO Convertible
Other mundane daily drivers

 

[NSX-Tuner]

dkny-nsx,

I have owned nearly 100 cars the past 19 years I've been married, including 12 Porsche 911's, several Vipers, a Shelby Cobra, over 30 mid year Corvettes, etc., but have never owned a Ferrari (or any Italian car for that matter).

Italian cars are beautiful to look at, but a pain in the a$$ to maintain. I have several friends who own Ferraris, but they spend way more time going out to the garage to look at them and wax them instead of driving them. A friend's 15k mile service on his 360 was $18,000 at Ferrari of Atlanta. That service alone will pay for 1/2 of an incredibly nice early NSX.

If I won a large Powerball lottery, I'd buy a 360 Spyder, and perhaps a Dino. But that's the only way a Ferrari would ever occupy a space in my garage.

Mike
'91 NSX (27,400 miles)
'96 Porsche 993 Cabriolet
'65 Corvette
GTO Convertible
Other mundane daily drivers

$18,000 sounds way, way too high for a 360 service unless the car had some serious problems. I think $5k is more like the average cost for a 360 service from what I've read. But $5k is still ridiculous. That would more than pay for a CT i/h/e/swaybar/strutbar upgrade installed at the dealer for my car.

 

[Mike O]

That's what my friend told me he paid for his 15k mile service, and I have no reason to doubt him. Maybe he's just bragging...

 

[willabeest]

While I agree with most of your post, every Ferrari V8 models have different maintainance cost associated with them. I am very familiar with F355 and I can talk about real life cost and potential cost for the car. An engine out service on F355 to replace belt and pump is $3,500-$5,000, depending on where you go for service. This is recommended every 15k or 5 years. The "while you are there" parts can add up and more often than not double that figure. So, you are correct to estimate $7,500 for the engine out service. But some of the costs for potential problems with very good possibility of happening can represent significant percentage of the car's value. I plan to get an F355 to complement my NSX, and have been doing a lot of digging from the F-car forums and friends that own them. As some of you know, almost the entire production runs of F355 are affected by valve guide issue. Only late 98 model year build and the 99 model year builds are built with the stronger steel guides. All 95 thru early 98s F355s have bronze guides, that potentially can disintegrate and taking out the piston(s) with them. If this happens, you are looking at anywhere between $20,000 to $35,000 to fund your favorite mechanic's college fund, as you are looking to put a new set of valve trains and maybe a piston or two (a single F355 piston is about $7,000 parts only). Not to mention if the Cylinder lining is damaged in the process. And yes, I have seen the valve guide fix receipt in the amount of $28,000 for parts and labor. It was done in an independent shop. I would be scared to see one from an authorized F-car stealer. Considering F355's market value, this fix alone might cost about 50% of the car value.

While not all 95-98 cars have required a rebuild, the number of casualties are high enough that you have to set aside coins for this potential debacle. It just simply not smart to ignore a costly potential problem if you are buying 95-98 F355. Since an F355 can get a good compression test and even a good leak down test, and develop the problems over couple months period. Of course you dont have to consider it if the car have had the fix done.

no wonder no one puts high mileage on these cars.

 

[Acura NsX Pilot]

That's what my friend told me he paid for his 15k mile service, and I have no reason to doubt him. Maybe he's just bragging...

Im sure he is telling the truth ..... besides dealers never inflate the price of a service especially when you drive an exotic.

 

[Mirroredshades]

In the price range you are looking at, I wouldn't buy either of your choices. If you want a pretty Italian car to look at, but not drive, get a 308. They are cheap. With the money leftover, you can have a 91-94 NSX for your daily driver.

I LOVE my NSX but if I had $60k laying around, I would put a deposit on a Z06. That is the total package right now.

 

[jimmycinla]

Found this amusing and thought it belonged within this thread...

Ahh... to own an F-car >>> http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62634

-jc-

 

[Animate]

I've had my 348ts for about a year now. I'd like to pass along some impressions but before I do let me start by saying I love my NSX. It is close to a perfect sports car...almost without fault. For the money there are few cars that match the quality, reliability and value of a well maintained used NSX, Ferrari or otherwise. It manages to satisfy both the left and right brain so well.

However this game of life is short and if you're a car nut a bit of variety can be rewarding....

I'm getting tremendous satisfaction out of the 348. It's used as a sunny day driver and usually along twisty roads when there's little traffic. The sound of that V8 at high revs is intoxicating. The car is raw by current standards. The steering is manual and the suspension firm, giving an excellent road feel without being harsh. The brakes are excellent and the powerband is broad. To my eyes the 348 styling is beautiful.The longitudinal V8 in the rear subframe has that classic supercar look. It's wide, about 100mm more than the NSX at the rear. Slightly lower too.

I think the service cost stories of Ferraris tend to be overblown. I acknowledge that if you're uncomfortable doing anything on a car yourself, getting all scheduled maintenance done at a Ferrari dealer could be costly. However, as with other marques there are independent shops that do good work for reasonable prices. I do much of my own maintenance and while dealer parts prices tend to be high there are several independents that are quite fair. TRutlands for example.

In summary the 348 has been a great experience. Not for general use like the NSX, but it makes a wonderful toy for twisty roads. It has provided a ton of enjoyment, and to me that is what it's all about.

 

[synergy004]

I am in the process of finding the right F car. I have contemplated the 355 for awhile but have looked at the 348. Not to hijack the thread. All the stories of the 348, are they from the owners themselves or from word of mouth, If I do purchase a 348 I will keep the NSX but if not I will take the route to a 355 or another exotic.

gil

 

[BioBanker]

I am in the process of finding the right F car. I have contemplated the 355 for awhile but have looked at the 348. Not to hijack the thread. All the stories of the 348, are they from the owners themselves or from word of mouth, If I do purchase a 348 I will keep the NSX but if not I will take the route to a 355 or another exotic.

gil

I would spend time on FerrariChat. From my experiences there, the 348 has a mixed reputation amoungst former and current owners. Many complain about it and call it Ferrari's darkest hour, while an equal number suggest that its the gem of the line, pure sports car priced well because of a misguided reputation.

I agree with some of the above; to my eyes, an updated 348, or a Speciale, is beautiful, very close to the F355 in stance and beauty. If you put a F355 rear grill on, having the louvres with almost all of the F355 enhancements is pure gold.

I would love to have one that I didnt need to depend upon for daily transportation. I dont believe that that is realistic, so I chose my 02 NSX instead. Ive not stopped smiling since.

 

[Tony Montoya]

Excellent Animate. The Ferraris are good looking cars with deep paint. Saw a 328 yesterday and it was stunning. It didn't sound so good at idle but that was Ok as the NSX sounds like a sewing machine.

 

[synergy004]

I have been a member on FCHAT for awhile just getting thoughts from other forums is a plus. I know my mind can only make it's own decisions and not others doing it for me but it's good to get constructive critisism from others. I think I will find a nice 348 for now and keep the NSX and mod it with my plans I have for it now and then later sell them both for something else.

 

[scottjua]

Try to rent a 348 or a testarossa, and see how you like it.

Best advice yet. It's a small price to pay if you're really serious about owning one. Take maybe even a two or three day rental to get over the "oh! I'm in a Ferrari" feel. Clear your mind and do a real world driving comparison.

Then factor in the costs after you've decided if you do or don't like them compared to the NSX.

 

[MCM]

If you have to ask, get an NSX.

 

[tewills]

I have heard that the best two days in a Ferrari owner's life is: 1) The day he brings that baby home! and 2) the day he is able to get rid of it.

I have never owned a Ferrari, and probably never will. I think I am too scared take on the responsibility that I have been told that goes into Ferrari ownership; as far as the up keep cost are concerned. I have rented 355's a couple of times...and that is enough for me.

 

[jimmycinla]

I have heard that the best two days in a Ferrari owner's life is: 1) The day he brings that baby home! and 2) the day he is able to get rid of it.

Not really, she cost me and I still miss 'er.
It won't stop me from gettin' another.

-jc-