NSX is one of the worst handling cars ever.

[SugrueNSX]

Are you running low profile tires? this may attribute to the car breaking loose with no warning, as opposed to the characteristics of the other cars you are mentioning. Plus these cars also have more body roll than a nsx which would also give warning. I think what you are reffering to is not the handeling capabilites of a car but the feedback that certain setups will give you allowing you to more comfortably push a car to its limits. Higher profile tires definatly give a number of diffrent diffent warnings before letting go. Also thinner tires also give more warning. Some cars may feel faster or react more comfortably than others. but that does not actually relate to the actual numers or speed a car can go through a track given the appropriate professional driver.

I appreciate you trying to help me and much of what you say is true. But I do understand. I know that I can lap my NSX faster than a R5 even if the R5 had the power to weight ratio to make it a fair race.

Regards,

Patrick

 

[zahntech]

Patrick??....Is it that Boring at work these days?....don't you have some big project to ship?:wink: ....and Patrick?...if you need a car you can toss about and have a good time with go get a Miata:smile: ....JZ

 

[SugrueNSX]

Based on your logic it sounds like you should sell your NSX immediately and buy a Dodge Viper! I hear those cars are amazing in the twisties...as you twist yourself right into a ditch!!! And handling is not subjective, it is the limit at which the physics of the car it to remain on the road, curve, track, etc. Not the cars fault if you don't understand physics and like to do things such as hit the brakes in the middle of a drift!

With all due respect, you are very wrong my friend.
Handling is very subjective. Handling is the way the car reacts to driver input and has to do with such things as under steer and over steer and how easy it is to control these and how the steering wheel feels and how much warning a driver feels before loss of grip etc. It is not to be confused with grip. Two cars could have identical lateral acceleration on the skid pad and have vastly different handling.
This is one of the reasons that some people get so pissed off when you tell them that IMHO your car does not handle very well. It’s because they are confusing Handling with Grip.

Regards,

Patrick

Ps why does everyone keep on about my lack of Physics. I did OK at physics at school.

 

[SugrueNSX]

So... What's your defenition of handling?

Your 1984 Austin Mini

 

[SugrueNSX]

Patrick??....Is it that Boring at work these days?....don't you have some big project to ship?:wink: ....and Patrick?...if you need a car you can toss about and have a good time with go get a Miata:smile: ....JZ

If I could add a Miata without getting a divorce, I would already have one. But my eldest Son is 14 so I think he might get one soon and I could use it for track events. Hopefully I can slip it by the wife that way.

Regards,

Patrick

 

[gtr]

SugrueNSX, sounds like the Mitsubishi Evo is for you. Quick steering, good input/feel and if you dont' overdrive it you will be fast. Makes begineers look like novices.

 

[Cairo94507]

SugrueNSX - I feel sorry for you and regularly donate to the charities that help those afflicted, such as you. I wish you the best in your long, long recovery and only hope that some of your brain function returns following extensive therapy. Best wishes.

 

[SugrueNSX]

I don't know about you guys..

But I want to find this TOOLBOX that calls the NSX a POS and END HIM.

I mean literally, END HIM.

who is with me?

I’m confused. Are you saying you literally want to kill someone?
And is that someone me?

Regards,

Patrick

 

[SugrueNSX]

SugrueNSX, sounds like the Mitsubishi Evo is for you. Quick steering, good input/feel and if you dont' overdrive it you will be fast. Makes begineers look like novices.

I have never driven an EVO.
I spent some time in an STI on a skid pan. (wet and dry) Is it anything like that?

Regards,

Patrick

 

[surferX]

With all due respect, you are very wrong my friend.
Handling is very subjective. Handling is the way the car reacts to driver input and has to do with such things as under steer and over steer and how easy it is to control these and how the steering wheel feels and how much warning a driver feels before loss of grip etc. It is not to be confused with grip. Two cars could have identical lateral acceleration on the skid pad and have vastly different handling.
This is one of the reasons that some people get so pissed off when you tell them that IMHO your car does not handle very well. It’s because they are confusing Handling with Grip.

Regards,

Patrick

Ps why does everyone keep on about my lack of Physics. I did OK at physics at school.

Yeah, I'm wrong. Especially considering everything you just described relates to physics. The inputs are forces being applied to brakes, steering wheel, accelerator..in your case the "oh sh*t handle"...by the operator and what you "feel" in your car are forces being applied to your car by the road and other assorted objects (hopefully no walls) and all of these can be modeled mathematically to predict the vehicles performance. So when you start trivializing the system (NSX or any other vehicle) stating that these reactions, or what you call handling, are subjective, you sound like a bit of a bit uneducated. That is why Honda pays engineers. If you didn't need to understand the physics of the system you would just let your mechanics build the vehicles. It's okay. This is a forum you can state your opinion...it's just more helpful to others when opinions are educated!

 

[Hugh]

What we have here ladies and gentlemen is a "troll-fest" and you are feeding the troll quite nicely I see.

 

[SFMarine0311]

i think you should get an s2k i hear they handle well..:biggrin:

 

[Ski_Banker]

This is really weird! Not a troll, not inebriated, not a new member, current owner, not even an attention-getting title (with sensible meat for content).

Are you getting divorced, need a way to prove who gets the better car between you and the wifey?

Is this a bet?

If you want more understeer - have the vehicle aligned, modded that way. What's the problem?

Some sense don't make any things and this is one of 'em.

 

[Bob Kenney]

Patrick,

Your line of reasoning/logic is so far beyond my level of comprehension I feel as though I am caught in Monty Payton episode. I believe what your trying to express is predictability of the vehicle at its corning limit. According to your logic stream a motorized wheelchair may be the best handling of all motorized vehicles; given its top speed performance is far below its cornering limit and therefore very predictable.

Handling is the ability of the car to carryout the input of the driver in a precise and predictable manner. I find the NSX very predictable and capable for carrying out my input so precisely it builds confidence not fear. If you find your NSX is not handling for you and the rest of the world appears to believe the NSX is one of the best HANDLING cars ever built; I suggest you examine your definition of handling, your driving ability, the physical state of your car and/or your mental outlook at life.

An example: Given the fact that to learn how any car will react when driving in snowy conditions one has to experience "driving in the snow" [not with an NSX of course]. Give up the fear and drive it ever harder in controlled conditions so you will be able to predict how it will react when pushed through a corner. The driver is ultimately responsible not the car; we are the brains behind the wheel; that's what driving is.

This is of course just my opinion, Good luck with controlling that NSX.

 

[SugrueNSX]

Yeah, I'm wrong. Especially considering everything you just described relates to physics. The inputs are forces being applied to brakes, steering wheel, accelerator..in your case the "oh sh*t handle"...by the operator and what you "feel" in your car are forces being applied to your car by the road and other assorted objects (hopefully no walls) and all of these can be modeled mathematically to predict the vehicles performance. So when you start trivializing the system (NSX or any other vehicle) stating that these reactions, or what you call handling, are subjective, you sound like a bit of a bit uneducated. That is why Honda pays engineers. If you didn't need to understand the physics of the system you would just let your mechanics build the vehicles. It's okay. This is a forum you can state your opinion...it's just more helpful to others when opinions are educated!

I could try discussing this with you but first let me try another tack.


In answer to a post that went something like. “What handles better an NSX or a C6
NSXTASY once wrote.

“Handling is subjective. That's like asking whether your 2000 NSX is better looking than your friend's C6Z06.”

Now I don’t know if you know who NSXTASY is because I don’t but I have never seen him post anything that was not spot on or anything I could disagree with even in the slightest way. I have a lot of respect for him and I would guess that one or two people on NsxPrime also do. So argue with him unless you think his education is not up to your standards like silly old me.

Regards,

Patrick

 

[SugrueNSX]

This is really weird! Not a troll, not inebriated, not a new member, current owner, not even an attention-getting title (with sensible meat for content).

Are you getting divorced, need a way to prove who gets the better car between you and the wifey?

Is this a bet?

If you want more understeer - have the vehicle aligned, modded that way. What's the problem?

Some sense don't make any things and this is one of 'em.

Thank you for your kind words and your intelligent reply. It’s so much more stimulating than the "Drink a big cup of Shut the F*** up" type posts.
I am in a good mood and I am not getting divorced as far as I know. I love my NSX and would not change anything about it.
My title was very inflammatory and I am not surprised by the reaction however I believe that my views are not as controversial as all that. I have spoken to experienced drivers at skills days and DE events that share my view. All I am saying is that high performance cars are very difficult to control at the limit. Lower performance cars with a higher polar moment of inertia that are set up with a bias are generally more controllable at the limit. Because these cars are easier to control on the limit I claim that they handle better because that is MY definition of handling. So these low performance cars are a good learning tool and are a lot of fun to drive. On the other hand the reason that NSX type cars , Ferraris Lambos Porches etc are fun to drive is that winning and going quick is fun.

Regards,

 

[apapada]

Btw it was the DE days and the skidpan sessions at skills days that helped me come to these conclusions so I don’t think that will help :smile: .

Regards,

Patrick

I think I get it now, since...

#1- you find the NSX one of the worst handling cars ever
#2- Handling is indeed subjective,
#3- Nobody else complains but you about handling,
#4- you came to conclusion #1 based on DE days and skidpad sessions (see quote)

Then....

It's YOU who canNOT handle the NSX, and not the NSX being a bad handling car.

My advise to you is sell your NSX and buy three dozen Renault LeCar with a lifetime of skinny tire supplies. :biggrin:

 

[SugrueNSX]

Patrick,

Your line of reasoning/logic is so far beyond my level of comprehension I feel as though I am caught in Monty Payton episode. I believe what your trying to express is predictability of the vehicle at its corning limit. According to your logic stream a motorized wheelchair may be the best handling of all motorized vehicles; given its top speed performance is far below its cornering limit and therefore very predictable.

Handling is the ability of the car to carryout the input of the driver in a precise and predictable manner. I find the NSX very predictable and capable for carrying out my input so precisely it builds confidence not fear. If you find your NSX is not handling for you and the rest of the world appears to believe the NSX is one of the best HANDLING cars ever built; I suggest you examine your definition of handling, your driving ability, the physical state of your car and/or your mental outlook at life.

An example: Given the fact that to learn how any car will react when driving in snowy conditions one has to experience "driving in the snow" [not with an NSX of course]. Give up the fear and drive it ever harder in controlled conditions so you will be able to predict how it will react when pushed through a corner. The driver is ultimately responsible not the car; we are the brains behind the wheel; that's what driving is.

This is of course just my opinion, Good luck with controlling that NSX.

Wow! another coherent thoughtful post in this sea of mindless abuse. It seems to me that despite your claim to the contrary, you are more that able to follow my line of reasoning. I like your wheel chair analogy. And as you say by my definition of handling. That would be a vehicle with fine handling. It would also be a bit boring.

I am happy with my definition of handling.
My driving ability is always in question but I’m doing what I can to improve. My car is in good order. My therapist says my mental outlook on life is OK :smile:

I have driven my NSX and other high performance cars to the limit and beyond in controlled conditions and I know how they react that’s why I don’t do it on the street.

Regards,

Patrick

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

Wow! another coherent thoughtful post in this sea of mindless abuse. It seems to me that despite your claim to the contrary, you are more that able to follow my line of reasoning. I like your wheel chair analogy. And as you say by my definition of handling. That would be a vehicle with fine handling. It would also be a bit boring.

I am happy with my definition of handling.
My driving ability is always in question but I’m doing what I can to improve. My car is in good order. My therapist says my mental outlook on life is OK :smile:

I have driven my NSX and other high performance cars to the limit and beyond in controlled conditions and I know how they react that’s why I don’t do it on the street.

Regards,

Patrick

Are you related to ANDY V. by anychance?

Armando

 

[Ski_Banker]

Thank you for your kind words and your intelligent reply. It’s so much more stimulating than the “Drink a big cup of Shut the F*** up type posts.
I am in a good mood and I am not getting divorced as far as I know. I love my NSX and would not change anything about it.
My title was very inflammatory and I am not surprised by the reaction however I believe that my views are not as controversial as all that. I have spoken to experienced drivers at skills days and DE events that share my view. All I am saying is that high performance cars are very difficult to control at the limit. Lower performance cars with a higher polar of inertia that are set up with a bias are generally more controllable at the limit. Because these cars are easier to control on the limit I claim that they handle better because that is MY definition of handling. So these low performance cars are a good learning tool and are a lot of fun to drive. On the other hand the reason that NSX type cars , Ferraris Lambos Porches etc are fun to drive is that winning and going quick is fun.

Regards,

Uh, thanks I guess. If I could think of any sane reason for the post (like "Troll" or "never driven one") then I would join the others in bashing. Like I said before, it just doesn't make any sense:

1. I think it is common sense that all high performance cars can be tougher to manage at the limits. HOWEVER, the NSX is known to be among the easiest of those (contrast to F40, 911 GT3, etc.) to push hard for an amateur. But those limits still far exceed the limits of lesser autos, no? 100% of a stock integra's limits is still less than 80% of a stock NSXs.

2. The physics is what it is, for those capable of driving consistantly at the vehicle's limits.

3. Most importantly, what is the point? Of course, plenty of folks will be highly offended and will punch below the belt. Is that not what you want? If you just wanted to discuss the handling limitations for an amateur vs. professional, there are certainly better ways of discussing that.

Do what you want. You're informed as an owner and Prime member. But I don't have any sympathy for people bashing you or this thread though - it's a silly way to get an obvious point across.

 

[SexyNsx]

Uh, thanks I guess. If I could think of any sane reason for the post (like "Troll" or "never driven one") then I would join the others in bashing. Like I said before, it just doesn't make any sense:

1. I think it is common sense that all high performance cars can be tougher to manage at the limits. HOWEVER, the NSX is known to be among the easiest of those (contrast to F40, 911 GT3, etc.) to push hard for an amateur. But those limits still far exceed the limits of lesser autos, no? 100% of a stock integra's limits is still less than 80% of a stock NSXs.

2. The physics is what it is, for those capable of driving consistantly at the vehicle's limits.

3. Most importantly, what is the point? Of course, plenty of folks will be highly offended and will punch below the belt. Is that not what you want? If you just wanted to discuss the handling limitations for an amateur vs. professional, there are certainly better ways of discussing that.

Do what you want. You're informed as an owner and Prime member. But I don't have any sympathy for people bashing you or this thread though - it's a silly way to get an obvious point across.

I agree.. i feel that violence can and will only help this situation..

However I also must add that at ALTIUDE and while FALLING, the NSX has VERY poor handling. For instance.. let's say your car is falling over a cliff into a quarry.. And you are trying to steer the car in an effort to manuever it, What do you think the chances are you will be able turn the car out of the impending doom of the rocky surface below you?

So in theory, the NSX's handling CAN even KILL you.. In some instances.. Please brainstorm this friends and let me know..

 

[SugrueNSX]

I think I get it now, since...

#1- you find the NSX one of the worst handling cars ever
#2- Handling is indeed subjective,
#3- Nobody else complains but you about handling,
#4- you came to conclusion #1 based on DE days and skidpad sessions (see quote)

Then....

It's YOU who canNOT handle the NSX, and not the NSX being a bad handling car.

My advise to you is sell your NSX and buy three dozen Renault LeCar with a lifetime of skinny tire supplies. :biggrin:

Well you can make the argument that it’s me and not the car. However if the car handles well then I should not have to be a world class racing driver.
I am only a weekend warrior and there are many better drivers here on prime but I am cleared to drive solo and I do get to pass people in my run group even though they are in faster cars once in a while. So I don’t think it’s entirely me.
Again you are focusing on the NSX. It’s all high performance cars. In general the higher the performance the worse the handling will tend to be.

Regards,

Patrick

 

[johnny010]

Call this guy, he is looking for a job

Actually, he found a job. Looks like the next two flicks are going to be good.

 

[apapada]

In general the higher the performance the worse the handling will tend to be.

Reading rubbish like the one I quoted just made me realize that I'm wasting my time. This thread is over for me. Good luck,

 

[SugrueNSX]

Uh, thanks I guess. If I could think of any sane reason for the post (like "Troll" or "never driven one") then I would join the others in bashing. Like I said before, it just doesn't make any sense:

1. I think it is common sense that all high performance cars can be tougher to manage at the limits. HOWEVER, the NSX is known to be among the easiest of those (contrast to F40, 911 GT3, etc.) to push hard for an amateur. But those limits still far exceed the limits of lesser autos, no? 100% of a stock integra's limits is still less than 80% of a stock NSXs.

2. The physics is what it is, for those capable of driving consistantly at the vehicle's limits.

3. Most importantly, what is the point? Of course, plenty of folks will be highly offended and will punch below the belt. Is that not what you want? If you just wanted to discuss the handling limitations for an amateur vs. professional, there are certainly better ways of discussing that.

Do what you want. You're informed as an owner and Prime member. But I don't have any sympathy for people bashing you or this thread though - it's a silly way to get an obvious point across.

I agree with everything you are saying.I should have probably couched it in a different way.
I do not need or expect sympathy but I do find it a little surprising that if as you say the point is so obvious so few people get it.

Regards,

Patrick