NSX for AutoX

I autocross my nsx all the time since I haven't had the courage to take it to a real track yet. Sticky tires have made a huge difference. I'll upgrade the suspension next. I'm always the only nsx out there. However, I don't think it's a great autocrossing car. I usually get beat by bmw m-coupes.
 
Go X: Those sizes should fit nicely. Do you think you'll get them this season?

I'm curious why the NSX isn't an inherently good AutoX car. I'm not disputing it, just wonder why. With mid engine it has low polar moment of intertia, and the CG is low. Yet it's apparently slower than some cars with similar weight.

stevefromatl: I can relate to your apprehension with tracking the car. The cost of mistakes can be significantly higher.
 
Stevef - I can sure identify with the lone NSX feeling. But then again that's what makes us special. My first trip to a 'real' track was an eye openner. I spun coming out of the final turn at Buttonwillow and came up just short of the pit wall (a wall I saw a BMW hit hard a short time later). I started thinking about making a $40K mistake while learning to drive this thing.
Enter autox into my life.
Yes, this isn't the best car for doing this sport.
But cone marks buff out.
Yes, it's not that thrill of triple digit driving but it is the thrill of having to make constant decisions by the second about how to get this car to do what you want/need it to do.
And yes, M's are hard to beat at autox but I've beat a few already.
And when you do go to the 'real' track after doing this for a while, it'll be a piece of cake.
You definitely need suspension upgrades if you're stock now. You really need R compound tires. But a good driver in almost anything can win at this sport. I've come a long way in this first year that I've been doing this. I've closed the gap considerably. By next summer I should be very competitive.
Pratice pratice pratice
Where else can you drive this car at it's g-force limit and not get arrested or take the chance of destroying it? To hell with everyone else's times out there, this is just plane cheap fun. (but sooner or later I'm gonna have to win anyway)

GO X - that tire/wheel set-up sounds pretty good. Those fat Hoosiers on the rear should really bring your times down. Those are the size of rear rims I'm looking for right now. Good luck on the 29th. See you there.
 
On a down note...... for those of you in the SoCal area that have autox'ed in the last 20 years or so. The sport lost a great man yesterday. Bill "HaveClock" Merrill died as the result of a stroke he had 2 weeks ago. Bill is the guy with the motorhome and ... the clocks.

Not only was he the timing guy for all of SCCA/CalClub/Solo2 events, he made his personal time and clocks available to a host of other org's doing their own autox'ing.

He was universally loved. He leaves a large hole in this sport.

He will be missed by everyone.

Thanks, Bill. God bless you.
 
I think its great fun to auto-x the nsx.If you improve each run,then you are succeeding!In the real world the excitement and competition is probably more percieved then real.I'm in the camp with Andrie that our beloved car can't achieve the needed levels of mechanical grip to compete at the national level in stock class.I ran my car localy for 2 seasons and was getting tired of mid pack times,but did enjoy the experience and practice.My current auto-x car the s2000 is more suited to the shorter tight courses in my region.That sayd ,I've run both cars the same day and on average,was 2 seconds quicker in the s2000 with similar tires,fwiw.
 
I use Hoosier AS303s on my 97 stock rims. They really make a huge difference. I've had them a year, and I'm still not used to them. I.e. I'm not driving as fast as I should with them. I really feel that I'm entering turns too fast but they just stick great. So I know I can faster than I do. Getting over the fear factor. :)

Unfortunately, I really want to use my wheels for some track events, so I want to hurry and use up the Hoosiers so I can mount some track tires on the rims. Then I'll auto-x with the track tires, though they won't be as nice for auto-xing.
 
Cal Speedway

Any NSXers at the practice today?
How was the course? What times were run?
See you guys tomorrow, we will be driving up in the morning for 2ND run goup.
 
As usual, just lonely ol' me.

There were 2 practice courses. Both around 30 seconds. A long fast course, and a short tight one. Compared to our usual sight (Norton), Cal Speedway has some nice elevation changes in it. And in this weekend's case the course designers built in some real tough spots that trapped you into thinking "go fast" when the reality was "go slow".

My fastest long course time was 40.223 and short course was 33.992. Those were fast enough times to beat several vettes, a couple of Porsches, an M3, and a host of others including some folks I had never beat before.

I'm on a more aggressive suspension set-up now and Kumho Ecstas, I'm sure that had something to do with it.

Tomorrow's course will combine the 2 from today. It should be FUN.

I'm in ASP so I don't run until 6th group. Hope I see you guys there.

Good Luck!

tank
 
If you were only there in the morning, I guess I missed you. But from what I can tell right now none of you showed up for Solo 2 in Fontana. Ahhh, man, why was I the only one out there yet again? With so many of you in the area.
It was a great, long and fast course. Top times of the day were in the high 60's. The Vette that leads my class ran a high 69 and I ran a 73. I got third but I missed second place by only 2/10th's of a second. My new suspension set-up works great.

The vette has over a 100 HP on me and is on big, fat Hoosiers with a driver that has a lot more experince than me. He used to beat me by 10 seconds. This NSX can do it. I know it. With a little more suspention work, bigger tires, and an increasingly experienced driver, I'll get him more sooner than later.

Too bad you all weren't there.
 
I was doing a ton of auto-xing then I got the hoosiers, then suddenly I haven't been getting out much. So, I've only managed about 4 events at the most with the hoosiers with long periods of time between each event, so I really haven't had enough quality seat time. I think with a lot of work improving the driver, I can be competitive. Unfortunately, the local amateurish auto-x lost its site about a year ago, and the SCCA in sacramento also just lost their site.. so not many options. I suppose it's time to try the bay area SCCA, but i'm afraid they'll have so many show up it will be a pain.

The other tough part is the BBSC has bumped me out of ASP class. Luckily there's a new class called SM2 that I qualify for, but it also means I have to go up against some monster cars. My chances at winning aren't good... though if you make every event, the odds are better. I'm currently 2nd in points, but that's because only 2 cars showed up at the Easter event! ha ha...

http://www.sfrscca.org/solo2/Sacramento/Results/2003/Cup/sm2.html
 
I used to autox my NSX regularly up in the Seattle area. I had some very fast Porsches to chase in ASP, prepared by perhaps the best Porsche guy in the US, Greg Fordahl of Fordahl Motorsports, and driven by some very good drivers. The Seattle area has almost as many national champs as SoCal / San Diego.

I was at the point where on a good day I could get within about 2 seconds of the Porsches on a roughly 60-second course.

My car had off-the-shelf Koni's, Ground Controls with 325/425 spring rates (I had 450/550 for a while but that was too stiff). Dali race sways (22mm I think), 15/16 stock wheels with 225/50/15 265/45/16 V700s (fronts were used, which didn't help). I found my biggest problem was front end grip on low-speed corners. The car could start to get a little over-steery in slaloms, and very understeery in slow corners, but it rocked the high-speed corners because of overall grip and speed of weight transfer. My car was also set up with too little rake. I think if I autocrossed my car now (front end is MUCH lower than it used to be, and the car has way more front-end grip now), it'd be a whole different ballgame.

To truly make the car good in ASP, you'd have to:
1) get a 97+ coupe, or update the motor and tranny if they're listed on the same line (last I checked, the NSX wasn't even explicitly listed for ASP)
2) build the motor to the extent of the rules
3) get 17" wheels / tires with hoosiers
4) get some penske / JRZ / moton shocks and someone who knows how to tune them.
5) hard bushings throughout the suspension, if in fact that's legal for street prepared.
6) reduce as much weight as the rules will allow. Removing A/C and doing race buckets would be a good start.

You'd have a really good car if you did all that besides the motor. The motor would be the last thing if you were really going for national competition, or just had too much money to play with. Some of the normally aspirated tuning stuff that Science of Speed has been working on would probably be Street Prepared legal and make a big difference.

The gearing does hurt the 5-speed NSX quite a bit, on some courses. However, I've seen many courses where the tall first gear actually gave me a good advantage because I could take like half the course in first gear. With a 5-speed NSX, you definitely have to get good at downshifting for the slow corners.

Re-packing the stock LSD so it's a lot tighter would probably help quite a bit, too. The LSD basically didn't do jack in my car with race tires, and I'd lose quite a bit of squirt out of the corners because of inside wheel spin. There's a lot of room in the stock specs for LSD pre-load as well, so I'm sure it could be done with full legality. Stock preload range I believe is something like 50 to 115 ft-lbs.

I stopped autocrossing because the events got too full, and 3 runs was not worth being on site for 6-8 hours.

I live in Marina del Rey now, and I'd be interested in doing some autocrossing, but I don't know of any events in the area. I also have a friend who just moved down here (to East LA) who's quite an enthusiast (he has a Neon ACR with $5000 JRZ shocks).

I also disagree with the comment above about lower-profile tires not helping. It may have been my particular combination of car setup, wheels, and tires, but I found that running S02 pole positions in 225/35/17 and 255/40/17 yielding times pretty much the same as my V700s, because the car was much more precise and driveable. However, the 17" rims I had the S02's on were +38mm front and +43mm rear, so the large increase in track width, especially in front, may have also affected the comparison. Futhermore, the V700s I was running were a bit wide for the rims, which may have compromise their grip and handling characteristics. To be truly competitive, though, you'd definitely want hoosiers on 17" rims.

If the NSX is still classed in A-Stock, I think a 97+ coupe would be extremely competitive. Great power, great handling, and good gearing.

-Mike
 
Nice write-up of your past NSX autocross experience. The NSX is still classed in SCCA A-Stock.

It is such a bummer that I had to miss the last SoCal autocross event due to an emergency that occured in the last minute. I wanted badly to try out my stock Zanardi in the local competitions. Are there any more events coming up soon in the SoCal area? Back East where I just moved from, there are autocross events by different clubs almost every weekend if one has the time to attend. I guess the popularity in SoCal is different.
 
Mike - great article on set-up. I would really like to get together at an event and pick your experienced brain for more tips. I could sure them.

I continue to be the only LA area guy autox'ing an NSX on a regular basis. I've been steadily closing the gap with the front runner in ASP - a well set-up vette - and the last event I came the closest yet: just under 4 seconds on a 70 second course. I missed 2nd place by just 0.2. And I'm still mostly stock but running Ecstas. New wheels and Hoosiers are on my short list this summer.

You're right about Seattle. The last Evo school here had 2 instructors from Seattle. Hurricane and Tom (forgot his last name but a nat champ) BTW, I beat both of their best times when they drove my car.

PLEASE come out to an event (see text below for the next one). I just can't stand being the only NSX out there. (Wait! Maybe that's a good thing) I have no one that know this type of car to get ideas or help from right now.

Nimbus - so sorry you missed the last one. What a great course. And there are events almost every weekend here.... if you look for them. In fact there was another 'free' autocross in the lot next to ours during our last event put on by Goodrich tires. BMW, vette, and Porsche, etc have events all the time that welcome other marques. Our next event is this weekend - again at Cal Speedway. But if you didn't sign up early you aren't going to make it into a practice day ( they usually limit practice to 80 cars). Look here: www.solo2.com under events. You should also watch the message board there. But Sunday is open to all. There're more events on Aug 2nd, 9th and 10th. No lack of popularity here but this isn't a decide-at-the-last-minute sport in this area. WAY too many people are interested. Only the serious get in.

The one good thing about being the only NSX here in SoPac is that I get to claim the title of FASTEST autox NSX. But the season is only half over............ ;-)
 
I continue to be the only LA area guy autox'ing an NSX on a regular basis. I've been steadily closing the gap with the front runner in ASP - a well set-up vette - and the last event I came the closest yet: just under 4 seconds on a 70 second course. I missed 2nd place by just 0.2. And I'm still mostly stock but running Ecstas. New wheels and Hoosiers are on my short list this summer.

What kind of tires does the Vette run? Hoosiers are fast, but they're also more expensive.

I looked back at your previous post again, and noticed that your biggest complaint is about tail-happi-ness. I'm curious what your alignment settings are. There's many, many things to try in order to get it under control. Rear tire pressures and shock adjustments (if you've got adjustable shocks) probably being the easiest. I have a feeling the problem probably stems from the car being mid engine and having sloppy bushings in the rear suspension. I have some Dali non-compliance toe-links, but I never got around to getting them installed because of messed-up threads in my subframe, but they wouldn't be legal in ASP anyway.

You're right about Seattle. The last Evo school here had 2 instructors from Seattle. Hurricane and Tom (forgot his last name but a nat champ) BTW, I beat both of their best times when they drove my car.

Glen "Hurricane" Hernandez is awesome. I've never ever been able to beat any time he's achieved in my car. I seem to remember one event where I was doing not-too-bad against the ASP guys, and then he jumped in my car and took like 2 seconds off my time, but he coned. So jokingly I said, "nice, but I'd like to see you do that clean." So of course, the next run, he took off another second, and didn't hit any cones at all.

PLEASE come out to an event (see text below for the next one). I just can't stand being the only NSX out there. (Wait! Maybe that's a good thing) I have no one that know this type of car to get ideas or help from right now.

My NSX really isn't in a position to be autocross at the moment. Partly because the brakes need replacement for racing use (and I'm waiting to be able to afford a big brake kit), and the other being that I gave away my old race tires and the rims they were on, leaving me only with my Kumho Ecsta Supra 712s, which are horrid for autocross. But if you'd like a co-driver, I'd be interested in that. It sounds like you're probably already pretty quick, though. I may only be able to serve as a tire warmer.

When I do get my NSX in race condition again, it won't be with autocross in mind as the top priority, so I'll probably end up doing mods that make it inelligble for ASP (like the non-compliance toe links, and a big brake kit).

The one good thing about being the only NSX here in SoPac is that I get to claim the title of FASTEST autox NSX. But the season is only half over............ ;-)

I see you're a graduate of Doug Hayashi school of performance analysis. :)

-Mike
 
I get to claim the title of FASTEST autox NSX.

That would be cool addition to NSXPO '03 - an AX course. Then one could actually be called the FASTEST AX NSX.
 
grippgoat said:
What kind of tires does the Vette run? Hoosiers are fast, but they're also more expensive.


He's on big Hoosiers, the A series.




Glen "Hurricane" Hernandez is awesome.

Yes, he is. And my beating him has nothing to do with his ability but the fact that my car's suspension wasn't set-up and I was on street tires. I'd simply learned to compensate for all that but it thru him for a loop (literally) with only 3 tries to get the times down. I had all day. My real point here is that if don't have a lot of experience in an NSX or a very similar type car (not many in this catagory), you can't just jump in and wail. Which is why I'm so hungry for like-car experts in this sport.



My NSX really isn't in a position to be autocross at the moment.

Mine still isn't. But I'm running it anyway. My mods so far: Cantrell air intake duct, stock air box with Comptech drop-in filter, Comptech headers, Gruppe M exhaust, the complete Zandardi suspension parts list from Acura, and the Ecsta tires on OEM rims.

I did almost all my AX on street tires and a nuetral suspension up till just now. And I've gotten this far on that. Now with the Ecstas and a more aggressive set-up (sorry I don't have the numbers, I was out of town when it was done and we still haven't touched base since then, he's hard to get ahold of) But it's more toe-in and neg-camber in the rear than before which has greatly reduced the tail wagging to a point where I can rotate more at-will with control.

I have no doubts that there are plenty of NSXs out there that can/could beat me, I just wish they'd try. As far as co-driving, I have a feeling you wouldn't be caught dead in my car. Because..... my shameful little secret...... I'm driving an automatic. Oh, the horror of it all!!! But then again, I'm blowing by a great many 5 speeds out here. I'm actually pissing a lot of people off that I beat because I'm in an auto. I take some perverse pleasure in that.

I see you're a graduate of Doug Hayashi school of performance analysis.

Why, yes, yes I am. And I'll add one more to that: I'm willing to bet I'm the fastest auto tranny AX NSX in the country. How 'bout that! ;)

T
 
Ponyboy said:
That would be cool addition to NSXPO '03 - an AX course. Then one could actually be called the FASTEST AX NSX.

What the heck, it'd be fun to claim that at NSXPO, and yet another reason to go.

I'm up for it. While only someone with a full race set-up (roll cage)or a complete fool would drive 100% on the (former) Sears Point Track, any of us can drive a 100% on an AX course. I think that'd be a blast. None of our insurance carriers would cover us in any timed event on the big track so to have a 'legal' timed competition, AX is a good way to go. Let everyone safely find that break point.

There was an all-NSX AX in SoCal earlier this year (that I missed because of a death in the family) and I know everyone had a great time. All you need is a helmet.


Let's do it.
 
The Solo2 autox event in Fontana this weekend was a hot one so turn-out was lower than expected. I had a good day at practice on Sat dialing in tire pressures on my Ecsta V700s. A yellow NSX with rally seats was there (I forget his name at the moment) but I stayed ahead of him by 3 seconds or so all day. He never caught me.

Nimbus showed up for a look-see on a break from the infield track event at Cal Speedway. Thanks for the support! It wasn't a good day for me, just couldn't get my head in the game. I got 4th. But each event the gap between me and that vette at the front gets smaller.

The next Solo2 autox is Aug 9/10. I really hope some of you can attend. Until then, I'll remain the fastest autox NSX out there.;)
 
I ran an autoX this weekend too, my first on the Hoosier A3S03's . . I really like the feel of these tires. Judging by the wear from only 5 minutes of racing this is going to be an expensive habit!

The tire pressures I used were 35F and 41R cold btw.
 

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