I want my KeN SaX voodoo doll! :biggrin:
Nsx Ca
- Thread starter dyee
- Start date
Da Hapa said:
Yes, there is more to the story but it would take too long to try to describe here. I try not to overgeneralize or stereotype the entire California population because my statements obviously do not apply to all but they do to a select group.
I guess my "anger" at the moment is fueled by the fact that this is supposed to a happy time of the year with the holidays and not only am I trying to deal with today being the first anniversary of my dad's death but I also have to handle the nonsense started by a few persons in your area who have and are interfering with NSXCA rights and obligations.
I would prefer to focus on family right now but I find myself necessarily getting involved with this issue due to my fiduciary obligations to the NSXCA and its dues paying members, like yourself. For those of you who do not know, I am the Secretary of the NSXCA and, as a corporate officer in that capacity as well as an attorney, I have the "pleasure" of trying to protect the rights of the NSXCA and its membership with no compensation in return for my time and efforts. I pay dues like everyone else, pay full price for NSXPO and similar events and draw no salary or other compensation for this service.
There have been issues in the past with a group of California members that have resulted in the current situation where I find that I must spend my valuable time during this difficult time of year to protect the rights of the paying NSXCA membership. My fiduciary duties as a corporate officer extend not only to my fellow NYers and Northeasterners but to the entire country including Caliifornia and the Southwest and, yes, I do take my "job" seriously. This includes protecting the marks of the NSXCA as well as trying to keep the national club "united" so that dues paying members become excited over events such as NSXPO and do not splinter off into separate local groups trying to hold competing NSXPOs when it is not held in their region one year.
So I guess the "short" response to your complaint (and it is a valid one) is that my diatriabes are not meant for the larger population of California but there are those who are attempting to interfere with the rights and benefits that dues paying members of the NSXCA such as yourself are entitled to and I am obligated to protect you and all other members, regardless of whether I have more important things to do with my time during this holiday season.
1) My sympathies again for the loss of your father. Nothing in this world is more important than family and my heart goes out to you and your family.RSO 34 said:
2) I would hope that the work or efforts of a few would not be sufficient to ruin the holiday season for you. I, for one, appreciate all the work that you and the other executive members of the NSXCA do but I would never expect that work to interfere with your family and/or your general well being. Seriously.
3) I appreciate now where you're coming from and I can understand your passion and your ire. And frankly, as an adult, I should do a better job of not letting things typed in an online forum get under my skin. But I've seen quite a bit of CA bashing on this forum as of late. Not just this thread, but others too. Be it from folks in Seattle or folks in NY. Just as I would never tell another man his wife is ugly, I don't disparage his home or his hometown/state. California isn't perfect, truer words have probaly never been typed, but it just isn't necessary to bash the crap out of it or it's residents either.
I know that's not what you were doing. And from what I understand about the situation (again with the caveat that I don't have the whole story), you're probably justified in being pissed. Just don't paint us all with the same brush.
I'll step down from my soap box and close with wishes of peace to you and your family on the anniversary of your father's passing and joy and warmth to you over the holiday season.
Mele Kalikimaka -
Ahh - where to start?
Contrary to some of your collective initial perceptions, the NSX-CA can hardly be argued to parallel the structure of the only club with International scope, or affiliation with American Honda/Acura - the NSXCA. Many of us involved are founding members of the NSXCA and as such we want it to survive and grow as truly there is no other substitute to the NSXCA nationally, and if anything, our previous efforts and functions that we have helped put on have shown how much support we have poured in over the years to help make it a vibrant organization.
However, recent events lead us to believe that either the Board is not willing to hear opinions from some of the 800+ owners residing in California or it lacks the vision and leadership to acknowledge the vacuum and need that we have discovered. But lets start with the basic assumptions made by some in criticizing NSX-CA without doing their own due diligence homework.
First, the just launched NSX-CA does not have any structure to speak of except a virtual one consisting of the website, the message boards etc..
Second, we are not competing with the national club for membership. We have deliberately and explicitly avoided creating an either/or situation in our presentation. We are not charging anything to "join", nor telling people that they cannot be a member of both organizations nor pretending to be the NSXCA or a branch thereof or subdivision of the NSXCA. In fact, we encourage you to be members of both to further enrich the cross pollination of new and fresh ideas - and so far we think such encouragements are going in one direction only. I think that our invitational materials we sent are pretty clear on that and the website further reinforces the same message again if people take the time to read it. Perhaps you missed our disclaimer in the website footer too? We think we are offering something the NSXCA is not, and we are not offering some things that the NSXCA is. I'm sure that you've read our announcement by now to know what that covers. I will agree with you that it is a "club" in the sense that those that have chosen to sign up have a similar interest in common and live in the same geographical area:
"An association of persons for social, political, athletic or other ends." - I think we fit in the social category.
Third, I am sure you will agree too that this whole idea had to have a reason for coming into being, and that was primarily due to:
(a) keN SaX's pervasive and often poisonous posts and unilateral decisions to ban people/shut down the e-mail lists which have caused many to leave the lists (at this point you might say "what lists?") and also the NSXCA over the years while the Board does nothing to restrain him; (we all know no one wants to try and find another "Treasurer" for the club - you had to love that job description he included at the last election.)
I think his 2006 crusade to hammer on his favorite "disreputable vendor" endlessly on Prime was the most laughable series of "personal attacks" that I've seen. If I wasn't such a nice guy I might have taken his efforts to negatively affect my business personally and since he is on the NSXCA BOD one might have concluded that he represented the views of the entire BOD as well - given that now Bob has jumped on the same wagon as well in his capacity as an Officer too perhaps that is the case. Depending on how you all want this to play out it could be time that I contact an attorney to get you to put some tape over their faces and seek monetary damages from the Board?
(b) the leadership vacuum became quite obvious and evident with the Board deciding that it was just all too much trouble and just to shut off all lists - i.e, there is no longer a SW list not to mention a national list; etc
(c) the Board seems to ignore the most populous and potentially active region by having structured and stacked itself with representatives that do not seem to have a vision or interest beyond the annual NSXPO oversight and NSX Driver .......
And let's not forget the following if you or the Board is really looking for scapegoats to knock this worthwhile venture instead of jumping on board to support it! Here are some simple factoids for you to mull over as well:
(d) a main club website that never changes, I've tried to get the successive nsxca.org "webmasters" to join the NSX Webring for 2+ years - never got a response. Out of curiosity why isn't the Sacramento Chapter on the NSX Webring when others are? What about the NW website? (we asked - no interest) If exposure is key to success, why not make this small effort to make such sites more visible to the largest possible audience?
(e) club e-mail lists that don't work. oops - or more accurately are not allowed to work as they were intended to when we all started posting on them so many years ago. And it doesn't take much to guess why they have died - just return to (a) above!
(f) club related personal e-mail addresses that don't work
(g) regional websites that are not updated.
(h) regional websites that don't exist.
Frankly, any impartial candid assessment might conclude that the whole situation has become almost pathetic mostly due to failure in leadership from the top and lack of vision how to motivate and create enthusiasm in the community. In fact, most of the efforts of the Board have been to do just the opposite by insulating itself and then censoring anyone who may initiate a dialog or come up with new ideas on their own. People don't come up with new ideas when the existing ones WORK.
Just one mans opinion of course - I'm sure you all feel that you slave away unselfishly 24/7/365 on our (the peons) behalf. To the extent that you all do that, I am sure there are members out there that are quite content with the status quo and could care less. But then again, that is not the case in all regions.
From what I remember from my brief tenure as the SW rep - the purpose of the NSXCA is stated below:
The purpose of this corporation will be to provide a community of Acura NSX owners and enthusiasts, organized exclusively for their pleasure and recreation, so as:
* To inspire, and enhance the experience of, ownership, operation, restoration, and preservation of Acura NSX automobiles throughout North America;
Somehow I'm not feeling inspired.(and I'm not alone in that feeling either)
* To serve the Members as a source of, and place for exchange of, information regarding Acura NSX history and technical data;
Prime (which has nothing officially to do with the NSXCA as far as I'm aware) has provided that function from Day1 - the official club website has been at best static and at worst barely functional - it has not been even updated since the summer and is still advertising "NSXPO 2006" 2 months after it was over - huh?
* To organize events, meetings, meets and exhibits;
more than one once a year one might hope?
* To encourage fellowship through communications, personal contact and commingling among Acura NSX owners and enthusiasts;
If you guys (ie the BOD - which currently stands for Bored Of the Dead as far as I can tell) don't ever do anything (that I hear about anyway) to motivate activity for the existing or potential future club membership on an ongoing basis at the local level someone else with an interest too do so will jump in because they care, and because they care for the greater common good. The NSXCA club membership # has been basically static with the number of people not renewing and the number of people joining being about the same since it got going no matter how you sugar coat the numbers. If Acura did not send out the NSXPO mailing to everyone in their national owner database every year I'd bet the member numbers would actually be declining year over year. Go look at your NSXPO attendance numbers and look at the number of people that join just to go when the NSXPO is near them that you never hear from again.
As for purported and outrageous if not outright laughable solicitation accusations, the people that received the notice about this new venture were primarily my customers living in California, and any other NSX owners that we were aware of that are currently residing in California. In fact, our idea even while in germination stage was received so well that several of the non related supporting vendors (including the 2 Acura dealers) may already have or will soon be sending their separate announcement notices using their own service customer database and informational material. If you were thinking clearly, perhaps you and the Board could welcome this as this is indeed what club organizers everywhere should do. We did not send out a general solicitation to everyone in my database (2500+ customers worldwide) or post it on Prime or whatever. It was made very clear in the various invites sent out that the invite is only good for all current NSX owners residing in California; not to the general public, and not to just NSXCA members or any wannabees in the NSXPRIME forums. And we are just finding out that apparently some NSXCA members in California did not receive an invite and were wondering why not! Goes to show you the fallacy of such unfounded accusations which could be taken as more of the smear campaign?
So far I've gotten more of these:
Thanks for putting this together Mark. Looks like a great forum for us old geezers
. Just finished signing up.
Thanks,
and
Outstanding idea! Congratulations.
It is especially welcomed in my situation - Palm Desert is not exactly a hotbed of performance car advocates. Anything to cut through that isolation is welcomed.
and
I love the logo you guys came up with. One question with regards to the hats...is it possible to customize the trim and car color to match the particular color of our NSX?
and
Great job
and
Yeah, that sounds good. The sound to noise ratio is getting high on 'Prime.
etc
And curiously there was not a single "you suck" e-mail. In fact, the only negativity I've seen is your post with the concerns you raise and the usual mindless blather from keN.
We have made every reasonable effort to be inclusive with our activities by extending our invitations to the SW/NW and always as a matter or regular courtesy copying the lists where available so other regions (to the extent that they follow the national list) share with us too what seems to work and what not in creating a community of NSXCA members. And yet you/the Board views such posts only now as violating mostly a dead national list that sees no posts except perhaps our occasional post or two and the immediate rebuttals from a Board Representative who wants to be always heard if not have the last word on every issue?! What a joke! But more importantly, what a lack of leadership and vision from the Board if that is indeed their myopic view of what is transpiring.
If you really think there wasn't a "need" for such a new and fresh venue, then why the rush to join? Its no wonder (IMO) that over 100 people joined the club within 36 hours of the initial post. That is almost 1/3 of the entire # of NSXCA memberships in California in case the significance of that number escapes you. And what about all those sponsors unrelated to "The NSX Club of California Team" who did not even blink when offered a chance to SUPPORT OUR EFFORTS? Food for thought assuming anyone is doing some and not just knee-jerk reacting..
I sure hope the Board has better things to do than alienate everyone that actually wants to do something by focusing on imagined potential trademark or copyright issues than the potential implosion of the club (and at this time anything is better than the nothing or the lame status quo) - JMO of course. When talking about uniting people, what is more uniting than joining all Californians together under one tent? Texas and Florida have done it - why not us? Texas has even had their own NSteXpo - I don't remember them being kicked in the ass for that idea. I guess because we didn't grovel before the Bored (Yawn) and ask "permission" to have an idea we are the bad guys?
Given California's size, year round car friendly climate and numbers of ownership, I think it is a perfect place for more activity at the grassroots level. Seeing some of the posts that claim the national organization unites the community best is the most laughable statement; this same individual single handily has killed the lists and the driven people away from community because the Board refuses to restrain him - and all this, irrespective of what the Bylaws say about the conduct of an Officer. As an added bonus tidbit for some with a memory longer than a nanosecond, he has been banned/suspended more times from NSX Prime that anyone else I can think of. Enough is enough. (our keN SaX voodoo doll is the most requested item in the NSX-CA store by the way - I guess I'll have to actually make a few 100)
As for the trademark issue, some much needed humor in this organization might be appropriate if not wise before the gloves come off - a cursory search online did not produce any record of the NSXCA or the NSX-CA as a nationally trademarked name, and as for our selection of the final NSX-CA name, anyone that is not suffering from "tunnel" vision caused by the current position of their head can figure out where we got the name: NSX-CA as an abbreviation for California (ie "CA".) - HELLO? anyone home? - last I heard, US Government sanctioned state postal abbreviation codes were in the public domain - if someone else addresses your envelopes for you can even look them up here - so lighten up before blasting threats of lawsuits on public forums.
Speaking of - I think that you'd have to work pretty hard make the case that we are trying to make money or steal "your" current membership by pretending to be you for some gainful reason to get anywhere with anyone but yourselves - but that's just my uniformed opinion. If you/the Board think that it is in the best interest for the future of "the NSX Community as a whole" to go after us legally for actually trying to do something to stir up some interest in organizing regular NSX oriented group activities on a local level - we'd be happy to document the whole thing on the website. I'm sure it would be entertaining to some small percentage of the owner base.
With leadership comes responsibilities. And with responsibilities come due process and accountability. This is a volunteer organization and officers are elected to serve the membership, not themselves. Threatening and censoring members with gestapo tactics, shutting down the lists without even any pretense of a due process, or not restraining if not expelling a repeat offender who has absolutely no administrative authority to do so (per NSXCA's own website link) is tantamount to a breach of contract between the Board and its membership/chapters at large - not to mention total disregard to the Bylaws which might be further cause for action with the proper registering/licensing authorities of the Board's status as a legitimate non profit representative organization. Just my opinion of course.
I might suggest that you and the Board keep the longer term big picture in mind rather than focusing on whose feathers initially got ruffled with our humorous creation - some light hearted spirit will help all if the true motivation for all of this is still the viability if not the growth of the virtual NSX community. Ever consider celebrating that OUR EFFORTS have generated renewed activity and interest locally instead of threaten lawsuits in an attempt to stifle them? Just think - you didn't have to lift a finger or spend a pennie of the NSXCA war chest. However - You do what you need to do if it comes to that. We know how to play hard ball and the public forum is a great equalizer if not a clear judge of the obviously ridiculous.
I'm sure I'll hear from you again.... just not here. We will go plan some events instead of hanging around to endlessly argue about Byzantine points of order.
Contrary to some of your collective initial perceptions, the NSX-CA can hardly be argued to parallel the structure of the only club with International scope, or affiliation with American Honda/Acura - the NSXCA. Many of us involved are founding members of the NSXCA and as such we want it to survive and grow as truly there is no other substitute to the NSXCA nationally, and if anything, our previous efforts and functions that we have helped put on have shown how much support we have poured in over the years to help make it a vibrant organization.
However, recent events lead us to believe that either the Board is not willing to hear opinions from some of the 800+ owners residing in California or it lacks the vision and leadership to acknowledge the vacuum and need that we have discovered. But lets start with the basic assumptions made by some in criticizing NSX-CA without doing their own due diligence homework.
First, the just launched NSX-CA does not have any structure to speak of except a virtual one consisting of the website, the message boards etc..
Second, we are not competing with the national club for membership. We have deliberately and explicitly avoided creating an either/or situation in our presentation. We are not charging anything to "join", nor telling people that they cannot be a member of both organizations nor pretending to be the NSXCA or a branch thereof or subdivision of the NSXCA. In fact, we encourage you to be members of both to further enrich the cross pollination of new and fresh ideas - and so far we think such encouragements are going in one direction only. I think that our invitational materials we sent are pretty clear on that and the website further reinforces the same message again if people take the time to read it. Perhaps you missed our disclaimer in the website footer too? We think we are offering something the NSXCA is not, and we are not offering some things that the NSXCA is. I'm sure that you've read our announcement by now to know what that covers. I will agree with you that it is a "club" in the sense that those that have chosen to sign up have a similar interest in common and live in the same geographical area:
"An association of persons for social, political, athletic or other ends." - I think we fit in the social category.
Third, I am sure you will agree too that this whole idea had to have a reason for coming into being, and that was primarily due to:
(a) keN SaX's pervasive and often poisonous posts and unilateral decisions to ban people/shut down the e-mail lists which have caused many to leave the lists (at this point you might say "what lists?") and also the NSXCA over the years while the Board does nothing to restrain him; (we all know no one wants to try and find another "Treasurer" for the club - you had to love that job description he included at the last election.)
I think his 2006 crusade to hammer on his favorite "disreputable vendor" endlessly on Prime was the most laughable series of "personal attacks" that I've seen. If I wasn't such a nice guy I might have taken his efforts to negatively affect my business personally and since he is on the NSXCA BOD one might have concluded that he represented the views of the entire BOD as well - given that now Bob has jumped on the same wagon as well in his capacity as an Officer too perhaps that is the case. Depending on how you all want this to play out it could be time that I contact an attorney to get you to put some tape over their faces and seek monetary damages from the Board?
(b) the leadership vacuum became quite obvious and evident with the Board deciding that it was just all too much trouble and just to shut off all lists - i.e, there is no longer a SW list not to mention a national list; etc
(c) the Board seems to ignore the most populous and potentially active region by having structured and stacked itself with representatives that do not seem to have a vision or interest beyond the annual NSXPO oversight and NSX Driver .......
And let's not forget the following if you or the Board is really looking for scapegoats to knock this worthwhile venture instead of jumping on board to support it! Here are some simple factoids for you to mull over as well:
(d) a main club website that never changes, I've tried to get the successive nsxca.org "webmasters" to join the NSX Webring for 2+ years - never got a response. Out of curiosity why isn't the Sacramento Chapter on the NSX Webring when others are? What about the NW website? (we asked - no interest) If exposure is key to success, why not make this small effort to make such sites more visible to the largest possible audience?
(e) club e-mail lists that don't work. oops - or more accurately are not allowed to work as they were intended to when we all started posting on them so many years ago. And it doesn't take much to guess why they have died - just return to (a) above!
(f) club related personal e-mail addresses that don't work
(g) regional websites that are not updated.
(h) regional websites that don't exist.
Frankly, any impartial candid assessment might conclude that the whole situation has become almost pathetic mostly due to failure in leadership from the top and lack of vision how to motivate and create enthusiasm in the community. In fact, most of the efforts of the Board have been to do just the opposite by insulating itself and then censoring anyone who may initiate a dialog or come up with new ideas on their own. People don't come up with new ideas when the existing ones WORK.
Just one mans opinion of course - I'm sure you all feel that you slave away unselfishly 24/7/365 on our (the peons) behalf. To the extent that you all do that, I am sure there are members out there that are quite content with the status quo and could care less. But then again, that is not the case in all regions.
From what I remember from my brief tenure as the SW rep - the purpose of the NSXCA is stated below:
The purpose of this corporation will be to provide a community of Acura NSX owners and enthusiasts, organized exclusively for their pleasure and recreation, so as:
* To inspire, and enhance the experience of, ownership, operation, restoration, and preservation of Acura NSX automobiles throughout North America;
Somehow I'm not feeling inspired.(and I'm not alone in that feeling either)
* To serve the Members as a source of, and place for exchange of, information regarding Acura NSX history and technical data;
Prime (which has nothing officially to do with the NSXCA as far as I'm aware) has provided that function from Day1 - the official club website has been at best static and at worst barely functional - it has not been even updated since the summer and is still advertising "NSXPO 2006" 2 months after it was over - huh?
* To organize events, meetings, meets and exhibits;
more than one once a year one might hope?
* To encourage fellowship through communications, personal contact and commingling among Acura NSX owners and enthusiasts;
If you guys (ie the BOD - which currently stands for Bored Of the Dead as far as I can tell) don't ever do anything (that I hear about anyway) to motivate activity for the existing or potential future club membership on an ongoing basis at the local level someone else with an interest too do so will jump in because they care, and because they care for the greater common good. The NSXCA club membership # has been basically static with the number of people not renewing and the number of people joining being about the same since it got going no matter how you sugar coat the numbers. If Acura did not send out the NSXPO mailing to everyone in their national owner database every year I'd bet the member numbers would actually be declining year over year. Go look at your NSXPO attendance numbers and look at the number of people that join just to go when the NSXPO is near them that you never hear from again.
As for purported and outrageous if not outright laughable solicitation accusations, the people that received the notice about this new venture were primarily my customers living in California, and any other NSX owners that we were aware of that are currently residing in California. In fact, our idea even while in germination stage was received so well that several of the non related supporting vendors (including the 2 Acura dealers) may already have or will soon be sending their separate announcement notices using their own service customer database and informational material. If you were thinking clearly, perhaps you and the Board could welcome this as this is indeed what club organizers everywhere should do. We did not send out a general solicitation to everyone in my database (2500+ customers worldwide) or post it on Prime or whatever. It was made very clear in the various invites sent out that the invite is only good for all current NSX owners residing in California; not to the general public, and not to just NSXCA members or any wannabees in the NSXPRIME forums. And we are just finding out that apparently some NSXCA members in California did not receive an invite and were wondering why not! Goes to show you the fallacy of such unfounded accusations which could be taken as more of the smear campaign?
So far I've gotten more of these:
Thanks for putting this together Mark. Looks like a great forum for us old geezers
. Just finished signing up.Thanks,
and
Outstanding idea! Congratulations.
It is especially welcomed in my situation - Palm Desert is not exactly a hotbed of performance car advocates. Anything to cut through that isolation is welcomed.
and
I love the logo you guys came up with. One question with regards to the hats...is it possible to customize the trim and car color to match the particular color of our NSX?
and
Great job
and
Yeah, that sounds good. The sound to noise ratio is getting high on 'Prime.
etc
And curiously there was not a single "you suck" e-mail. In fact, the only negativity I've seen is your post with the concerns you raise and the usual mindless blather from keN.
We have made every reasonable effort to be inclusive with our activities by extending our invitations to the SW/NW and always as a matter or regular courtesy copying the lists where available so other regions (to the extent that they follow the national list) share with us too what seems to work and what not in creating a community of NSXCA members. And yet you/the Board views such posts only now as violating mostly a dead national list that sees no posts except perhaps our occasional post or two and the immediate rebuttals from a Board Representative who wants to be always heard if not have the last word on every issue?! What a joke! But more importantly, what a lack of leadership and vision from the Board if that is indeed their myopic view of what is transpiring.
If you really think there wasn't a "need" for such a new and fresh venue, then why the rush to join? Its no wonder (IMO) that over 100 people joined the club within 36 hours of the initial post. That is almost 1/3 of the entire # of NSXCA memberships in California in case the significance of that number escapes you. And what about all those sponsors unrelated to "The NSX Club of California Team" who did not even blink when offered a chance to SUPPORT OUR EFFORTS? Food for thought assuming anyone is doing some and not just knee-jerk reacting..
I sure hope the Board has better things to do than alienate everyone that actually wants to do something by focusing on imagined potential trademark or copyright issues than the potential implosion of the club (and at this time anything is better than the nothing or the lame status quo) - JMO of course. When talking about uniting people, what is more uniting than joining all Californians together under one tent? Texas and Florida have done it - why not us? Texas has even had their own NSteXpo - I don't remember them being kicked in the ass for that idea. I guess because we didn't grovel before the Bored (Yawn) and ask "permission" to have an idea we are the bad guys?
Given California's size, year round car friendly climate and numbers of ownership, I think it is a perfect place for more activity at the grassroots level. Seeing some of the posts that claim the national organization unites the community best is the most laughable statement; this same individual single handily has killed the lists and the driven people away from community because the Board refuses to restrain him - and all this, irrespective of what the Bylaws say about the conduct of an Officer. As an added bonus tidbit for some with a memory longer than a nanosecond, he has been banned/suspended more times from NSX Prime that anyone else I can think of. Enough is enough. (our keN SaX voodoo doll is the most requested item in the NSX-CA store by the way - I guess I'll have to actually make a few 100)
As for the trademark issue, some much needed humor in this organization might be appropriate if not wise before the gloves come off - a cursory search online did not produce any record of the NSXCA or the NSX-CA as a nationally trademarked name, and as for our selection of the final NSX-CA name, anyone that is not suffering from "tunnel" vision caused by the current position of their head can figure out where we got the name: NSX-CA as an abbreviation for California (ie "CA".) - HELLO? anyone home? - last I heard, US Government sanctioned state postal abbreviation codes were in the public domain - if someone else addresses your envelopes for you can even look them up here - so lighten up before blasting threats of lawsuits on public forums.
Speaking of - I think that you'd have to work pretty hard make the case that we are trying to make money or steal "your" current membership by pretending to be you for some gainful reason to get anywhere with anyone but yourselves - but that's just my uniformed opinion. If you/the Board think that it is in the best interest for the future of "the NSX Community as a whole" to go after us legally for actually trying to do something to stir up some interest in organizing regular NSX oriented group activities on a local level - we'd be happy to document the whole thing on the website. I'm sure it would be entertaining to some small percentage of the owner base.
With leadership comes responsibilities. And with responsibilities come due process and accountability. This is a volunteer organization and officers are elected to serve the membership, not themselves. Threatening and censoring members with gestapo tactics, shutting down the lists without even any pretense of a due process, or not restraining if not expelling a repeat offender who has absolutely no administrative authority to do so (per NSXCA's own website link) is tantamount to a breach of contract between the Board and its membership/chapters at large - not to mention total disregard to the Bylaws which might be further cause for action with the proper registering/licensing authorities of the Board's status as a legitimate non profit representative organization. Just my opinion of course.
I might suggest that you and the Board keep the longer term big picture in mind rather than focusing on whose feathers initially got ruffled with our humorous creation - some light hearted spirit will help all if the true motivation for all of this is still the viability if not the growth of the virtual NSX community. Ever consider celebrating that OUR EFFORTS have generated renewed activity and interest locally instead of threaten lawsuits in an attempt to stifle them? Just think - you didn't have to lift a finger or spend a pennie of the NSXCA war chest. However - You do what you need to do if it comes to that. We know how to play hard ball and the public forum is a great equalizer if not a clear judge of the obviously ridiculous.
I'm sure I'll hear from you again.... just not here. We will go plan some events instead of hanging around to endlessly argue about Byzantine points of order.
MJ, you DA MAN!
"You suck" - just in case you're feeling ignored.
From the home page of the NSX-CA site:
Not to be confused with the NSXCA; (NSX Club of America) this website is not affiliated with nor approved by anyone including but not limited to: the NSXCA, Honda Motor Co., Ltd. or the Acura Division of American Honda Motor Co., Inc. or any other person or organization that may object to it. The activities and events discussed in the Forums and e-mails lists have been planned solely by the members using those forums & lists and should not be construed as being endorsed by Honda Motor Co., Ltd. or the Acura Division of American Honda Motor Co., Inc. for any purpose. "NSX", "Acura", and the Acura logo are registered trademarks of Honda Motor Co., Ltd.
Personally, it's pretty clear to me that the NSX-CA and the NSXCA are not related. I appreciate the desire to "protect" the NSXCA membership, but I hope that cooler heads prevail and that my membership dues are put to a better use than a lawsuit over this issue.
DaveG
From the home page of the NSX-CA site:
Not to be confused with the NSXCA; (NSX Club of America) this website is not affiliated with nor approved by anyone including but not limited to: the NSXCA, Honda Motor Co., Ltd. or the Acura Division of American Honda Motor Co., Inc. or any other person or organization that may object to it. The activities and events discussed in the Forums and e-mails lists have been planned solely by the members using those forums & lists and should not be construed as being endorsed by Honda Motor Co., Ltd. or the Acura Division of American Honda Motor Co., Inc. for any purpose. "NSX", "Acura", and the Acura logo are registered trademarks of Honda Motor Co., Ltd.
Personally, it's pretty clear to me that the NSX-CA and the NSXCA are not related. I appreciate the desire to "protect" the NSXCA membership, but I hope that cooler heads prevail and that my membership dues are put to a better use than a lawsuit over this issue.
DaveG
Shouldn't NSX club of California be NSXCC or NSXCCA? 
Mark,
I feel compelled to comment on your post above.
I have no issue with you or anyone else creating an organization to support the local NSX community. I also have no issue with the fact that you clearly plagiarized the NSXCA logo by putting a hyphen between the X and the C. I also welcome your criticism of NSXCA as often times improvements are made due to comments such as yours. You have clearly identified a need for local support that NSXCA is unwilling or unable to fulfill. Additionally, I have no connection with nor do I feel like I need to defend Ken Sax in any way. There are times that his posts have irritated me just like most everybody here on Prime.
However, founding and conducting your organization based in part on the deformation of a particular person, namely Ken Sax, is clearly wrong. I’m talking about the Ken Sax voodoo doll of course. Frankly, I would be ashamed to be a part of any organization that targets an individual in such a negative manner regardless of how much I dislike him or her.
One last thing that came to mind while reading your protracted post – if you were to spend as much effort conducting your business with the diligence used to create your post, you would probably not have so many negative comments regarding your business practices. (Providing there is at least one grain of truth to the many horror stories). This is just an observation from one businessman to another and not intended to be an attack on you. I have not had any bad experiences doing business with you, although I only ordered something once many years ago.
I think you and your organization would be better served if you were to focus exclusively on the benefits and merits of participation without the negative bias.
Dismounting soapbox… :smile:
I feel compelled to comment on your post above.
I have no issue with you or anyone else creating an organization to support the local NSX community. I also have no issue with the fact that you clearly plagiarized the NSXCA logo by putting a hyphen between the X and the C. I also welcome your criticism of NSXCA as often times improvements are made due to comments such as yours. You have clearly identified a need for local support that NSXCA is unwilling or unable to fulfill. Additionally, I have no connection with nor do I feel like I need to defend Ken Sax in any way. There are times that his posts have irritated me just like most everybody here on Prime.
However, founding and conducting your organization based in part on the deformation of a particular person, namely Ken Sax, is clearly wrong. I’m talking about the Ken Sax voodoo doll of course. Frankly, I would be ashamed to be a part of any organization that targets an individual in such a negative manner regardless of how much I dislike him or her.
One last thing that came to mind while reading your protracted post – if you were to spend as much effort conducting your business with the diligence used to create your post, you would probably not have so many negative comments regarding your business practices. (Providing there is at least one grain of truth to the many horror stories). This is just an observation from one businessman to another and not intended to be an attack on you. I have not had any bad experiences doing business with you, although I only ordered something once many years ago.
I think you and your organization would be better served if you were to focus exclusively on the benefits and merits of participation without the negative bias.
Dismounting soapbox… :smile:
ak said:Shouldn't NSX club of California be NSXCC or NSXCCA?
I wouldn't consider it a club really. Just a more region specific forum. So I dunno about the "club" part in the name.
Just my 3 cents and a nickel........
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