NOS at the track?

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22 November 2001
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I'm looking for a way to keep up with my friend's M3 at the driving schools this summer. No responses about simply becoming a better driver please.

Is NOS a viable option at the track or is it something more for the kids that want to street race? Can it be done without drilling holes in the car? Can it be easily undone?

I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has used NOS at the track and opinions on which systems are available specific for the NSX.
 
NOS

Why would you need NOS to keep up with your friend ? Does he have a modified M3 ? Is he a substantially better driver ? I have driven my friends 2002 M3 around Streets of Willow, and I don't think it is substantially faster than the 911 or NSX. If you are a novice I would maybe suggest a computerized Nitrous unit like the VCN-2000 Venom system that automatically (computerized) dumps nitrous at certain RPM's, or certain duration of spraying.
 
Jamin Cummings and Dale Seeley won the compact class in 2003 One Lap of America in a used 1997 Saturn SC2 with nitrous and fantastic brakes. The brakes allowed them to out-brake their competitors in the corners, and the nitrous helped them keep up on the straights. So it would seem that nitrous is a viable option for the track.
 
Go for a supercharger. That will give you constant power whenever you need it. Otherwise if you are stuck on NOS find BadCarma. He is very knowledgeable on the subject.
 
I know of a few nsxers that have been "on the bottle" at xpo and other than running out of gas(nitrous) had fun.
 
gobble said:
No responses about simply becoming a better driver please.
Then you are excluding reality from your responses.

The reality is that at a drivers school, the faster driver (not the faster car) is more likely to catch up to other cars in the turns. Once you arrive at the passing zone in the straight, the lead car entering the straight is required to let the following car pass - even if the lead car is capable of faster acceleration.

Getting NOS (which is only usable on the straights) won't have any effect on which car has caught up to which other car in the turns.
 
I think its fair to say that we are of equal driving skills. I was faster when he had his old M3. He is faster with the new one. I'm looking to get back to a level playing field.
 
gobble said:
I think its fair to say that we are of equal driving skills. I was faster when he had his old M3. He is faster with the new one. I'm looking to get back to a level playing field.

The new M3 should not be in the "not even close" category, even if it is the new version. The M3 weighs 405 more pounds than the 3.0 version. It is 0 to 60 in 5.0 seconds vs the 5.2-5.3 that the 3.0 coupe does. I would suggest losing some weight and getting H/I/E and that should be enough to do it without worrying about the possible damage that NOS can do. I know it can be safe, but it is a danger I chose not to take. ;) Also, the Dali chip has received some good reviews from those that have H/I/E. (just ask Nick Matteni)

If you really want to make it not even close in the NSX favor, get a supercharger, but you won't need that to take the M3. Sorry to focus on this, but driver skill does make a big difference too.
 
333 HP vs 270 HP

No responses about simply becoming a better driver please.

I think it’s fair to say that we are of equal driving skills. I was faster when he had his old M3. He is faster with the new one. I'm looking to get back to a level playing field.


Respectfully, perhaps you are not on the same skill level. If you are as you claim, then there is more that underlies the situation (tires, suspension, etc.) then simply skill level vs horsepower.

I recently attended a race (with four straights vs Road America’s “three” straights) where cars of the above horsepower were present. Within five laps, the lower horsepower car reeled in and passed the higher horsepower car. This was with smaller brakes, as well. 100% driver skill vs horsepower.
 
AndyVecsey said:

Respectfully, perhaps you are not on the same skill level. If you are as you claim, then there is more that underlies the situation (tires, suspension, etc.) then simply skill level vs horsepower.


This is exactly the type of discussion I wasn't looking for when I started the thread. We can argue about this all day long. I'm simply asking if NOS is workable on a road course.
 
>>This is exactly the type of discussion I wasn't looking for

Then you're not looking for advice, you're looking to spend money. Here's my suggestions:

- get NOS. Have it installed by someone you can blame when you're still not faster than your friend.
- get a supercharger. You can blame Comptech or Basch when you're not as fast as your friend.
- get new suspension. You can blame Tien or Ground Control when you're not as fast as your friend.

Under no circumstances should you buy a big brake kit. You want to be able to stand up at NSXPO 2004 and tell us that "you would not have hit the wall if you had the big brakes."

I'm looking forward to it.
 
Soichiro said:
>>This is exactly the type of discussion I wasn't looking for

Then you're not looking for advice, you're looking to spend money. Here's my suggestions:

- get NOS. Have it installed by someone you can blame when you're still not faster than your friend.
- get a supercharger. You can blame Comptech or Basch when you're not as fast as your friend.
- get new suspension. You can blame Tien or Ground Control when you're not as fast as your friend.

Under no circumstances should you buy a big brake kit. You want to be able to stand up at NSXPO 2004 and tell us that "you would not have hit the wall if you had the big brakes."

I'm looking forward to it.

So your advice is to simply become a better driver. Thanks, thats very helpful.

I guess I should never ask if headers give more horsepower or which brake compound is best for the track. Hey, I'll just become a better driver and none of this will matter.
 
Geeeeez there is no need to get nasty fellas.

gobble --- with no more than headers and exhaust and maybe a little weight reduction you should be pretty even if his M3 is stock. But if he is really running away from you by many car lenghts down the straight you'd need more than that to keep up.

I think people are assuming it is a difference in drivers because you said the car ran away from you on the straight --- the 2 cars have close acceleration to begin with so if he is toasting you it suggests: A. His car is not stock B. Your car has a problem C. His corner exit speed is a lot better than yours probably as a result of skill differences.

Nitrous is good for street or drag racing but not really a good solution for the track as evidenced by its lack of use in real road course racing. You'd also go through a ton of nitrous (bottles per event) if you are on the gas down every straight. But you can install or remove it fairly easily and you don't have to do much as far as permanent changes to the car if you don't want to.
 
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How can you guys really believe that two equal drivers will remain equal if one has 23% more horsepower (and a little more weight). That simply doesn't make sense. I can stay with him at Blackhawk Farms but on the straights at Road America I have no chance. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not Peter Cunningham.

Why don't we remove the performance section from the FAQ and replace it with "just become a better driver"? Why do any mods to your car, just become a better driver. I knew some idiot would chime in with that comment when I started the thread and it looks like I was correct.
 
I have never heard anybody ever of using NO to get more performance on a road course. But I guess for a pass in a straight it might work

If it were me I would maybe upgrade one or more of the following. Brakes, suspension, or tires...but nothing compares to experience

I have been to a half dozen driving schools at mid-ohio ( i don't have a personal dedicated track car yet so I beat on their now current RSX type S's I am nowhere near the potential that I want to be at, but have notied that now my lap times are becoming very consistant. I am able to overtake larger more powerful cars.

At a track school have a professional driver take your car out...While you ride along. You will than have an understanding of how much faster you can get... Expecially if its wet out:eek:
 
gobble said:
I think its fair to say that we are of equal driving skills. I was faster when he had his old M3. He is faster with the new one. I'm looking to get back to a level playing field.

I've seen some other cars besides the NSX using NOS at the track, but as others have stated it takes quite a bit of NOS for an entire day's worth of tracktime, so that might not be worth it.

From the numbers it seems that your friend has an E46 M3, if that's the case your NSX with a bit of weight reduction and a bit more power should be able to keep up, unless the E46 has been seriously modified by making it lighter. Sadly the E46's engine is so maxed out that it's very hard to get any meningful gains from it.

The E46's inline six has a bit more low end torque so he might be pulling faster out of turns if you are not at optimum RPM range on your engine's powerband.

Based on your 270hp figure, I am assuming a 3.0 engine and a a coupe, your best bet might be to get some headers, that should add a good 10-15hp to your car and a bit of weight reduction, you can also run your car with 1/2 a tank of gas instead of a full tank, remove the engine cover that should also help as well. If that still does not make a difference then time for some more serious weight reductions of your car.

My 97-T is down to about 3025lbs with full fluids, so yours should easily get into the 2900's. I have not had any problems keeping up with E46's, but I'm running intake/headers/exhaust and the car is putting down 272hp at the wheels, so mine is nowhere to being stock.

Ken
 
You're getting 272 at the wheels with just intake/headers/exhaust? I have headers and exhaust on the way and am anxious to see the difference.

Good idea with removing the engine cover. I've taken it off before but don't like the loose fit of the window without the cover. Not a bad idea to remove it on track days though.
 
gobble said:
Why do any mods to your car, just become a better driver.
If you're looking for faster lap times, that is exactly the case. A better driver in a bone stock car can pass a slower driver in a modded car, no problem at all. And when two cars are fairly closely matched - as an NSX is with an E46 M3 - the better driver will be faster, ten times out of ten.

Oh, and I would not consider a 400+ pound weight difference to be "a little more weight". That difference is huge.

gobble said:
I knew some idiot would chime in with that comment when I started the thread and it looks like I was correct.
Keep ignoring the advice and experience of everyone here - remember, at least five people who have already posted in this topic have driven in over 50 track events - and it's easy to see exactly who is the "idiot". :rolleyes:
 
Long Straights ?

Gobble,

Unless there are long straights nitrous is pretty much useless for a road course. Maybe some better brakes & tires could help too. After about 2 30 min. sessions at Buttonwillow my friend's M3's brakes started fading. This way you can kill him in the corners. If you look at the Best Motoring videos it seems as though the Japanese cars (because of weight & brakes) would get absolutely murdered on the straights by the europen cars because of their 280 hp "gentleman's agreement" but get a good bit of that back in the corners. That being said the 3.0 L benefit the most from the header upgrades.
 
nsxtasy said:
Keep ignoring the advice and experience of everyone here - remember, at least five people who have already posted in this topic have driven in over 50 track events - and it's easy to see exactly who is the "idiot". :rolleyes: [/B]

I'm a little disappointed. Your advice is usually very helpful and on point, not the flaming kind. I didn't ask how can I get faster lap times, I asked if NOS was useful on a road course. Some have been able to give me a useful answer while others haven't. I too have been in close to 50 events since I bought my first Porsche in 1991. Since nobody knows anything about my driving skills, it doesn't seem appropriate to comment. You also know nothing about the other driver. :)
 


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