New NSX

I'm liking this car more and more. It's a good looking car! I'd decrease the body height over the front wheels but it's still a looker. I'm interested to see what the interior looks like.

Couple of things from the ASC design engineer (VTEC.net interview):

- several design mandates came from Japan: V10, rear wheel biased SH-AWD, and front engine layout.
- didn't have a whole lot of time to complete the concept.
- name hasn't been decided on.
- more finished model will be seen at the Tokyo car show this fall.

Looks better than the jumbled lines of the LF-A and certainly much better than the coming Skyline. Long live the ASC something-or-other (better have at least 450hp)!
 
Well said.

However it’s still a little disappointing that (Honda) enthusiasts are behaving this way about a preliminary design. Sure it’s fine to have opinions, but there is a difference between criticism, which could influence change and whining which is a little disrespectful to a design team that has done a lot of hard work. Let’s not forget that Honda has débuted some pretty awesome next gen vehicles before and who’s to say that this won’t happen again.
Oh, pleeeeease!
This is a car forum. People come here to talk cars, good or bad. The Yugo, Pinto, Citroen, or whatever cars all have design teams. The last thing I care is their or their mother's feelings of our "criticisms" or as you put, "whining". Instead of respecting fellow member's right to voice their opinions, you cheap shot it as "whining". I think YOU are being inappropriate and disrespecful.
Steve
 
honda began by making mopeds, although Soichiro did dream about racing.
i think the NSX was an anomaly that was created to fulfill an adolescent dream of Sochiro before he died.

Honda has been heavily involved in both motorcycle and car racing since the 1950's and had many wins since the 1960's. Soichiro himself was a racer. With his influences and many other talents, Honda has put his name on innumerous podiums. NSX is not an anomaly but a natural progression of the direction of Acura at the time. In the 1980's Honda was dominating the F1 circuits with the Mclaren with high profile driver's such as Senna and Prost. Producing the flagship NSX was not an accident but a careful tool to go upmarket.
Unfortunately after Soichiro's death, in the hands of these lousy executives, Acura failed to capture the upmarket like Lexus did. The sales of the RL have been poor with the V6. The Integra, TSX, TL, and CL are just higher end Hondas. Acura dealer services suck. On the other hand, Lexus is the only name from Japan that can compete in the $50k to $70k segment and certainly have stolen market shares from BMW, and MB.
Steve
 
Prototypes are all about garnering feedback, so there is little harm in being brutally honest. The difference is that getting feedback from 'everyday' people on the street isn't going to work with expensive sports cars. Forums over the internet are in fact a great tool for this purpose.

Thus, I'm not going to sugar coat anything. Tell them what you want and what you would really spend your money on.

Personally, I'm not even all that thrilled about all the new chassis designs having all these ammenities like two seats and door glass. Is not one seat enough for a real sports car to begin with? I'm just not seeing the Group C race car influence in these concepts? Ugh... well, hopefully whatever they do we at least finally get the Type R version here in the US.. and no more of this Type Panzi crap :wink:
 
It's interesting to think say five years down the line, are people going to continue to cherish their "supercar" like the NA1's and NA2's? Will these new "NSX" owners meet on the web to exchange information with others as a means to help each other, or will they post 20 pictures on cardomain and other showoff sites that allow anyone under 13 to log on and talk about how "My Daddy's car can go 0-60 in 3.4secs!" To put out this car is a shift towards the future, who needs NSX Festa!

"Attention, 2015 NSX Festa will be held at GMT +9 from your garage. Everyone have your webcam tuned to this IP address and upload..."

Just my 2 Yen...
DJ
 
Here's a decent video interview of the designers of the ASCC at the NAIAS. The interviewer asked a couple of good questions such as "what happened to the HCS..." and "is this car based on real hardpoints (for headroom, crash worthiness, etc.)..."

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=651818

In short, the answer was that the HSC was a next generation NSX whereas the ASCC is the successor to the NSX. The ASCC is not designed with any realistic dimensions for headroom, crash cell, etc, nor are things like the slit LED headlights realistic. The designers also did not know if it could be made into a 2+2 - they were purely focused on the external design.

They did mention that something closer to production-ready will be at the Tokyo auto show in the fall but they also said that it will take several such iterations before we see the final pre-production car.

IMO, there will be no next-gen NSX as we know it. People that want a harder hit of the NSX crack pipe will need to save up for a 430, R8, Gallardo, etc. While the ASCC might develop into an interesting car (and potentially a fast car), there is no substitute for having an engine 4 inches behind your ears.
 
Here's a decent video interview of the designers of the ASCC at the NAIAS. The interviewer asked a couple of good questions such as "what happened to the HCS..." and "is this car based on real hardpoints (for headroom, crash worthiness, etc.)..."

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=651818

In short, the answer was that the HSC was a next generation NSX whereas the ASCC is the successor to the NSX. The ASCC is not designed with any realistic dimensions for headroom, crash cell, etc, nor are things like the slit LED headlights realistic. The designers also did not know if it could be made into a 2+2 - they were purely focused on the external design.

They did mention that something closer to production-ready will be at the Tokyo auto show in the fall but they also said that it will take several such iterations before we see the final pre-production car.

IMO, there will be no next-gen NSX as we know it. People that want a harder hit of the NSX crack pipe will need to save up for a 430, R8, Gallardo, etc. While the ASCC might develop into an interesting car (and potentially a fast car), there is no substitute for having an engine 4 inches behind your ears.

good post
 
Here's some more food for thought. The Beck LM. It's a small production car company out of Switzerland, that produces what most of us were expecting. There is no excuse for Honda not to build a MR NSX replacement, but they seem to be making the choice to do it.

http://www.beck-engineering.ch/index.cfm?fuseaction=show&path=1-10

Sean
 
Honda has been heavily involved in both motorcycle and car racing since the 1950's and had many wins since the 1960's. Soichiro himself was a racer. With his influences and many other talents, Honda has put his name on innumerous podiums. NSX is not an anomaly but a natural progression of the direction of Acura at the time. In the 1980's Honda was dominating the F1 circuits with the Mclaren with high profile driver's such as Senna and Prost. Producing the flagship NSX was not an accident but a careful tool to go upmarket.
Unfortunately after Soichiro's death, in the hands of these lousy executives, Acura failed to capture the upmarket like Lexus did. The sales of the RL have been poor with the V6. The Integra, TSX, TL, and CL are just higher end Hondas. Acura dealer services suck. On the other hand, Lexus is the only name from Japan that can compete in the $50k to $70k segment and certainly have stolen market shares from BMW, and MB.
Steve
i think you misunderstand me. DNA is what you were born with. honda's racing program grew out of the honda company, honda did not grow out of a racing program.
from wikipedia
Honda was a mechanic who, after working at Art Shokai, developed his own design for piston rings in 1938. He attempted to sell them to Toyota who rejected his first design. After two years of study and further refinement, Honda earned a contract from Toyota. He constructed a new facility to supply Toyota, but soon after, during World War II, the Honda piston manufacturing facilities were almost completely destroyed.

Soichiro Honda created a new company with what he had left in the Japanese market that was decimated by World War II; his country was starved of money and fuel, but still in need of basic transportation. Honda, utilizing his manufacturing facilities, attached an engine to a bicycle which created a cheap and efficient transport. He gave his company the name Honda Giken Kōgyō Kabushiki Kaisha which translates to Honda Research Institute Company Ltd. Despite its grandiose name, the first facility bearing that name was a simple wooden shack where Mr. Honda and his associates would fit the engines to bicycles. The official Japanese name for Honda Motor Company Ltd. remains the same in honor of Soichiro Honda's efforts. On 24 September 1948 the Honda Motor Co. was officially founded in Japan.

Honda began to produce a range of scooters and motorcycles and Soichiro Honda quickly recovered from the losses incurred during the war. Honda's first motorcycle to be put on sale was the 1947 A-Type (one year before the company was officially founded). However, Honda's first full-fledged motorcycle on the market was the 1949 Dream D-Type. It was equipped with a 98 cc engine producing around 3 horsepower. This was followed by a number of successful launches of highly popular scooters throughout the 1950s. Honda Racing Corporation (HRC) is a division of the Honda Motor Company formed in 1954.[1]

now contrast this with the history of ferrari.
Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro is the name for the Gestione Sportiva, the division of the Ferrari automobile company concerned with racing. Though the Scuderia and Ferrari Corse Clienti continue to manage the racing activities of numerous Ferrari customers and private teams, Ferrari's racing division has completely devoted its attention and funding to its Formula One team, Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro. Scuderia Ferrari is Italian for "Ferrari Stable", though the name is liberally translated as "Team Ferrari."

Scuderia Ferrari was founded in 1929, and raced for Alfa Romeo untill 1939. Ferrari first competed in F1 in 1948 (the team's first F1 car was the Tipo 125 F1), making it the oldest and most successful team left in the championship. The team's current drivers are Felipe Massa and Kimi Räikkönen, who has signed on to Ferrari for a three-year contract with the retirement of Michael Schumacher after the 2006 season, and its test drivers are Luca Badoer and Marc Gené. The team principal is Jean Todt, with Stefano Domenicali as sporting director, and its technical director is Mario Almondo. Both men are newly promoted following the promotion of Jean Todt and the departure of Ross Brawn, although Todt will remain as team principal for at least 2007. The team's numerous and ardent Italian fans have come to be known as tifosi.
1947 The beginning

The first Ferrari road car was the 1947 125 Sport, powered by a 1.5 L V12 engine; ***Enzo reluctantly built and sold his automobiles to fund the Scuderia.*** While his beautiful and blazingly fast cars quickly gained a reputation for excellence, Enzo maintained a famous distaste for his customers, most of whom he felt were buying his cars for the prestige and not the performance

[edit] 1961 The great walkout

Enzo Ferrari's strong personality had served his company and racing team well for decades. But internal tensions reached the boiling point in November of 1961 Long-time sales manager, Girolamo Gardini, had long chafed at Enzo's wife, Laura's involvement in the company. The two frequently argued, but their dispute became a crisis for the company when Gardini made an ultimatum to Enzo: If tensions continued, he would leave the company.

Enzo was never a man to accept a challenge to his authority, and he dealt with the situation with a typically heavy hand. Gardini was ousted, as was Scuderia Ferrari manager, Romolo Tavoni, chief engineer Carlo Chiti, experimental sports car development chief, Giotto Bizzarrini, and a number of others who stood by them. All were tremendous losses to the company, and many thought this might be the end of Ferrari. Indeed, the defectors immediately formed a new company, ATS, to directly compete with Ferrari on the street and the track, and took with them Scuderia Serenissima, one of Ferrari's best racing customers.

now the history of porsche

While products and technologies designed and created by Porsche now look back at more than 100 years of successful history, the first car bearing the brand name Porsche was homologated by the state government of Kärnten in Austria "only" 50 years ago on 8 June 1948 – the very first Porsche 356 to see the light of day. The intellectual and, indeed, spiritual "father" of the car was Professor Ferdinand "Ferry" Porsche, who died on 27 March 1998 at the age of 88. Moving his Company during the war from Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen to the town of Gmünd in Kärnten, Ferry Porsche had started with his faithful employees in 1947 to "build a sports car of the kind I like myself" based on the Volkswagen Beetle developed by his father.

Without counting "Old No 1", exactly 52 units of the 356 model were built in Gmünd, all subsequent cars as of 1950 being assembled in Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen. Up to the end of production of the 356 in 1965 no less than 78,000 purchasers the world over had joined Ferry Porsche in his opinion, clearly expressing that they, too, liked the car. Other sports cars – in particular, of course, the 911 – quickly made the brand one of the most renowned and outstanding automobile manufacturers in the world consistently renowned for beautiful design, progressive and reliable technology.


Porsche's worldwide success in motorsport also started with the 356. For the very first model with chassis number 356.001 was only a few weeks old when, in July 1948, it scored its first class victory in the Innsbruck City Race. And to this very day hardly any other marque has brought home as many overall wins and world championships as Porsche. In the 24 Hours of Le Mans

you see the difference? ferrari reluctantly started building cars to fund its racing program, already in existence. ferrari's DNA is racing pure and simple. porsche began with a sports car that actually won races. honda began building mopeds then much later began racing. honda's DNA is building engines then mopeds.

S. Honda did once race himself. it was decades before he began the current Honda company .Born in 1906, Honda grew up in the town of Tenryu, Japan. The eldest son of a blacksmith who repaired bicycles, the young Soichiro had only an elementary school education when, in his teens, he left home to seek his fortune in Tokyo. An auto repair company hired him in 1922, but for a year he was forced to serve as a baby-sitter for the auto shop's owner and his wife. While employed at the auto shop, however, Honda built his own racing car using an old aircraft engine and handmade parts and participated in racing. His racing career was short lived, however. He suffered serious injuries in a 1936 crash. two years later he began a company making piston rings and airplane propellers which was completely destroyed during WW2. the remains of the company was sold to toyota. only after all this did he begin the Honda company that exists today, which began in a shack attaching engines to bicycles. the racing program began much later.
 
Here's some more food for thought. The Beck LM. It's a small production car company out of Switzerland, that produces what most of us were expecting. There is no excuse for Honda not to build a MR NSX replacement, but they seem to be making the choice to do it.

http://www.beck-engineering.ch/index.cfm?fuseaction=show&path=1-10

Sean

Not really an option. From http://www.beck-engineering.ch/index.cfm?fuseaction=show&path=1-10-15
Technical details / dimensions
Year of construction 2006
Country Switzerland
Price from 750 000 CHF

750,000.00 Swiss Franc (CHF) equals
601,834.3912 US Dollar
 
Not really an option. From http://www.beck-engineering.ch/index.cfm?fuseaction=show&path=1-10-15
Technical details / dimensions
Year of construction 2006
Country Switzerland
Price from 750 000 CHF

750,000.00 Swiss Franc (CHF) equals
601,834.3912 US Dollar

Quite right - it's expensive. However design costs of these cars tend to make up a large part of their price. I think with Honda's resources they could design one much more efficiently, cut production costs over the Beck, go with Aluminium vice CF & Kevlar etc. and come in at a reasonable price.

I posted it to show that even a small company can design a genuine MR sports car exotic, just to say Honda has every resource available, could do it (even at a loss), but as we are seeing is choosing not to.

They should. I bought my Prelude because back in 93 it had VTEC, like the NSX. Then I bought my GSR in the mid 90's because Acura branded it as "Son of NSX". The NSX - as an exotic sold other Hondas and Acuras. I don't know if this will.

(interesting side note - I bought front engined cars because of the halo of a mid-engined car :confused: )
 
From our last nxpo the designer of our old beloved nsx reiterated that his design input was negligable and that the torch had passed to the new breed that would bring the next nsx to a new direction,so as much as I want to be surprised by honda that they will evolve the mr layout alas it is all but caput,I'm just thankful that they rewrote the exotic mr formula to begin with.
 
2 quick points

First, this is a great time to be a Lotus fan! I was waiting for the next NSX and Next Esprit. Now I am only waiting for the next Esprit. Come on Lotus...do it right! the field is WIDE OPEN for a sleek mid-engine exotic at a price-point half the cost of the Ferrari 430

Second, Honda was chasing Ferrrari in the 90's when the cool car was the 348/355. Now Honda is still chasing Ferrari. Ferrari's newest cars 612/599 are big bloated front-engine cars for the 60-year-old crowd ( who have lots of spending cash, and a hip or knee replacement that won't let them get into a low mid-engine car anymore).
 
Quite right - it's expensive. However design costs of these cars tend to make up a large part of their price. I think with Honda's resources they could design one much more efficiently, cut production costs over the Beck, go with Aluminium vice CF & Kevlar etc. and come in at a reasonable price.

I posted it to show that even a small company can design a genuine MR sports car exotic, just to say Honda has every resource available, could do it (even at a loss), but as we are seeing is choosing not to.

They should. I bought my Prelude because back in 93 it had VTEC, like the NSX. Then I bought my GSR in the mid 90's because Acura branded it as "Son of NSX". The NSX - as an exotic sold other Hondas and Acuras. I don't know if this will.

(interesting side note - I bought front engined cars because of the halo of a mid-engined car :confused: )

Ah, I thought you were suggesting that vehicle as an alternative. There is also the Noble, the M15 is looking like a substantial improvement over the M12.

http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/noble_m15.asp

noblem1506_07.jpg
 
Ferrari's newest cars 612/599 are big bloated front-engine cars for the 60-year-old crowd ( who have lots of spending cash, and a hip or knee replacement that won't let them get into a low mid-engine car anymore).


0-60 in 3.7 sec
0-125 in 11 sec.
205 mph top speed
3,700 pounds with Enzo V-12 that outperforms any current production Ferrari engine. The 599 is front-engined, but is certainly not bloated and not for the 60 year old crowd. At $250K it's not a bad price when you put it up against Carrera GT etc. I don't recall the Nurburgring time, but it was a very good time. If Honda wants a benchmark front engine car to compete against, this is it. I fear they are simply going after the M6/SL 55 etc. Those are good cars too. Hell, I own an SL 55, but it's no 599. This would be a great CL or two door Legend/RL, but to replace the NSX with this is just a shame.
 
0-60 in 3.7 sec
0-125 in 11 sec.
205 mph top speed
3,700 pounds with Enzo V-12 that outperforms any current production Ferrari engine. The 599 is front-engined, but is certainly not bloated and not for the 60 year old crowd. .

I guess I should use better wording than "big and bloated" - how about "low"?

Remember when exotics use to be knee high? An Exotic was an Exotic. Now most people who don't hang-out on car chat-sites couldn't pick a 612/599 out in a parking lot. I yelled to my wife "hey look a Ferrari"... she sat there looking at a 550 saying "where?"

Seems the KEY WORDS in Exotics marketing now-a-days is- "fits 2 sets of golf clubs"
 

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I guess I should use better wording than "big and bloated" - how about "low"?

Remember when exotics use to be knee high? An Exotic was an Exotic. Now most people who don't hang out on car chat-sites couldn't pick a 612/599 out in a parking lot. I yelled to my wife "hey look a Ferrari"... she sat there looking at a 550 saying "where?"

Seems the KEY WORDS in Exotics marketing now-a-days is- "fits 2 sets of golf clubs"

Yeah, and those have to be a Snoopy set of clubs even in some non exotic and GT cars!! I agree. Exotics used to be obvious bad ass cars. I'd still like the Carrera GT over the 599 because of exactly what you're saying!! Take care.
 
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what Honda is racing in Super GT for 2007?

If they really did hault NSX production entirely and de-tool at the factory, then I assume they just have extra NSX spare chassis and parts laying about for yet another year... otherwise perhaps sometime in March we might we see spy shots sans early 2002?

Does not the cart always come before the horse, with the production car needing to be firmly in place prior to it being authorized by the JAF?

My logic is that I would think that some form of announcement might come from that direction, as to when the NSX will be officially retired by Honda and Dome. Such an announcement might be a definitive clue as to the coming of any such future "NSX replacement" when one day they just roll out of a trailer something we've never seen before.

Hard to say, I think many of us wish we knew more at this point, given the direction being so vague from what little we've all seen online. Most certainly top end or the other NSX car clubs over there know something more than the rest of us do. :confused:
 
Contrary to a lot of opinions here, there are some things I really like about it - there's some nice design there.

But I will admit, I am not too thrilled that this is Honda's direction for their 'flagship' car.

NSX to me partly is analogous to "Japanese" supercar. It isn't just some car, it's japanese. That's special to me. Obviously this isn't important to Honda. And no, for what it's worth - i'm not japanese.

Several things that drive me nuts about this though.

1.) The marketing about it being 'designed' in california. I guess we no longer care that Honda is japanese. Globalization has firmly taken root.

2.) Direct and undeserved association with the NSX.

3.) Insistant, rediculous, borderline hidous, obsessive use of center-line crease. I didn't like it when I saw it on the last integra *cough* (RSX) and I absolutely do not care for it on this top-of-the-line model. The NSX successor should LEAD not follow. Do things for purpose, don't force this car into an unnecessary marketing mold. Really poor form and only CHEAPENS your car. Subsequent models should resemble this car, not the other way around.

.neuro
 
WAIT A SEC
If you don't like what Honda is doing why don't you start making a HSC replica or something like that!
And stick a SOS 3.8 in it or a 3.6 Twin Turbo!!

I know how it can be done!
Take some NSX wrecks and tune it to the max in the handling and chassis DP and then put a big ass engine in it! Or do somthing like those GT40 kit cars!
 
Were you the lead designer of that group or what???

The NSX was eye popping, jaw dropping :eek: when it was first debuted...It's lines are sleek, beautiful and timeless...I lusted after it from the day I saw it as a young punk..
The ASC on the other hand is UGLY and has no appeal at all...I/we're not whining, we're just stating the obvious...The ASC is a pig, and should not even be mentioned in the same breath as the NSX.....

So in the statement above the only thing that has changed is you are no longer a young punk, BUT that one statement can change the whole equation. Maybe the current design is appealing to young punks and young punk are going to buy many more cars in the coming years than old farts will.:biggrin:
 
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