New NSX is not selling? it's overpriced?

[chrisn]

The fact that torque vectoring (or other safety and/or performance enhancing technology) is not miraculous does *NOT* mean that it is not helpful.

Saying "if you go into a 40MPH corner at 100MPH, you're not going to make it around cleanly," is a meaningless statement. The issue is whether a competent, but perhaps not professional, driver can make it around the corner faster with the systems than without.

You'll always find people who suggest that new innovations are vaguely "cheating" or "taking the skill out of driving." To each his own. I'm sure that the advent of disc brakes, more than three gears, improved suspension geometry, improved tire compounds, LSDs, fuel injection, multi adjustable shocks, sequential gearboxes, complex aero, ABS, brake bias control, etc., etc., in each case sparked similar luddite comments.

Whatever.

 

[jwmelvin]

I don't think you can reasonably assert that advances such as stability control do in fact reduce the skill required from a driver. Some of these changes are seen as beneficial, for sure. Like synchromesh transmissions. I think each situation/person has to make a choice about what skills they want to develop or maintain. I happen to get a lot of joy out of driving very manual cars on track. Others prefer to go faster without the further skill development that would otherwise be necessary.

The NSX has some additional ability for influencing yaw. It is clearly not revolutionary or the lap times would reflect that. Perhaps what fans of the car enjoy is the nature of the stability-control system. Many prior systems have been very intrusive and therefore undesirable to most drivers. If you feel the NSX's is a net benefit to your experience then that's great.

 

[2slow2speed]

Yeah I know what too fast means. I'm not saying the system is some guardian angel miracle worker. If you go into a turn that could be taken neutral at 50mph but you spaced out at the brake zone and you're carrying 80? Yeah into the gravel you go. But with the NSX, let's assume you could turn the torque vectoring off and you could carry 50 through without any understeer. Now try to hold 55 through the turn...yeah you lose the battle of mechanical grip and it starts under steering. Now try it as it is built, with torque vectoring. 55 through the turn and holding the line is now a reality.

Guess it is helpful for newbies but useless for experienced drivers, since experienced drivers don't drive through a turn with neutral throttle.

Once you are done with deceleration and turn in and you start acceleration (prior to the apex for those of us who actually know how to drive) the outside wheels are loaded and the inside wheels are unloaded both on the front and rear axles, in that particular scenario what you refer as Front Axle Torque Vectoring does squat. In other words Front Axle TV only helps with turn in when both front tires are loaded.

The way that the NSX has implemented SW-AWD is not all roses either. With a car like the new R8 the center diff is able to distribute power front/rear, depending on the amount of available grip on each axle, the NSX on the other hand is limited to the amount of HP/TQ that is available on each individual motor for the front axle.

In other words in regards to potential of putting power to the ground the new R8 is superior to the NSX2.0.

What the NSX2.0 does with the e-shawd hybrid drivetrain, an experienced driver can do it with trail braking and been in the sweet spot of the power band and a rear axle Torque Vectoring/e-diff with a traditional non hybrid powertrain with a similar power to weight ratio for a car.

BTW: stuntman is Billy Johnson the racer, IIRC he consults/works for Ford, and has been involved in product development so he knows what he is talking about. He might have a degree in accounting but thinks like an engineer based on his many posts and articles that he has published over the years.

 

[osus2k]

Why is it not selling? Well I am not sure that it isn't selling but it does appear to not be killing it sales-wise.

If this is true, I think that the reason is multifaceted. It does not seem to be one thing. There seem to be a bunch of little details that are not quite fine tuned. And the looks and performance for the price are not creating enough passion to overcome these niggles.

I do not think the hybrid system or the lack of a manual trans is the issue...not at all.

Hybrid is a bonus - no question about it.

Anybody have a sense of what percentage of 911s are sold with 3 pedals?

I think as a non-performance brand, they had to hit it out of the park and a triple is great but just not quite enough.

Would it be flying of the shelves if it went 0-60 in 2.5 seconds, had a front end like the Huracan, 488 or Z06 and started at $150K, maxed at $190K?

I think so.

Other than that, it would have to have every little detail perfected.

.02

back to why not selling.....
^ This
If it had slightly better performance numbers, and could hustle around the track faster with all of the tech it would be more accepted

 

[chrisn]

I think the notion that the front motors are underpowered in the NSX (versus a traditional AWD system like the R8 or 911TT) partially misses the point--- especially as it related to corning ability. Although some modern, electronically controlled physical center diffs can divert "100% of the useable torque" to the front wheels, this DOES NOT MEAN that all 400-600 pound feet (or whatever) of torque is ever sent to the front wheels, let alone in a turn with significant steering input. In the cornering situations that count (getting down to apex and rolling on throttle on way out), you can't use all your power and the optimal amount you need in the front is never anywhere close to 100% of total maximum power output.

These factors obviously informed the engineering design and system limits of the NSX SH-AWD system. I'm sure there are times where more EV power up front would be helpful (straights for sure), but system design is full of compromises.

 

[Jinks]

Lets not forget the crushing news science of speed left of recently of how much power the car actually makes.

 

[NetViper]

Lets not forget the crushing news science of speed left of recently of how much power the car actually makes.

Meh, the car does 0-60 in 3.1 seconds and weighs 3800 lbs. It's making plenty of power. Still needs more, but making a lot.

 

[Jinks]

Meh, the car does 0-60 in 3.1 seconds and weighs 3800 lbs. It's making plenty of power. Still needs more, but making a lot.

I can agree on that bud. The torque is ridiculous on the 2.0 but the hp is really low from sos views. But the cost and the somewhat useless tech for the current price is like, ehhhhh. Hacking an ecu voids warranty. But people who can afford this car do not care. I am not one of those people FYI. Just commenting on things. If it was priced around 120/130k I would seriously consider buying one which would still be quite a stretch for a guy like me. I work with my hands more than my brain. So my pay scale is sub-par. I like having multiple vehicles for certain purposes. My nsx rarely sees the road. A 200k nsx would probably see it even less for me.All in all, the new car is hot in it's own way. But it does not pay homage to the original in my opinion. The 570s is like the future nsx if Honda kept up with competition.

 

[2slow2speed]

I think the notion that the front motors are underpowered in the NSX (versus a traditional AWD system like the R8 or 911TT) partially misses the point--- especially as it related to corning ability. Although some modern, electronically controlled physical center diffs can divert "100% of the useable torque" to the front wheels, this DOES NOT MEAN that all 400-600 pound feet (or whatever) of torque is ever sent to the front wheels, let alone in a turn with significant steering input. In the cornering situations that count (getting down to apex and rolling on throttle on way out), you can't use all your power and the optimal amount you need in the front is never anywhere close to 100% of total maximum power output.

These factors obviously informed the engineering design and system limits of the NSX SH-AWD system. I'm sure there are times where more EV power up front would be helpful (straights for sure), but system design is full of compromises.

Please think things through....... Your are missing some key fundamental points.

Guess all those H1 cars that used to run in HC or PC's WC TSX could not put down more than 90HP while cornering.... :tongue:

 

[fastaussie]

Would it be more accurate to say that maybe you don't know how Honda does things nearly as much as you or your buddies think they do? The benefits of the NSX's drivetrain can not be said of just any AWD vehicle.

no, it would not. but nice try. :biggrin: some of my mates were development drivers for the NSX, the very same one we're talking about. as i've said before, i knew it wasn't going 0-to-60 in under 3 seconds six months before anyone did. there's a lot of other things i knew about it long before the launch too.

since others answered your questions for me, i see no need to elaborate further. carry on...

The way that the NSX has implemented SW-AWD is not all roses either. With a car like the new R8 the center diff is able to distribute power front/rear, depending on the amount of available grip on each axle, the NSX on the other hand is limited to the amount of HP/TQ that is available on each individual motor for the front axle.

In other words in regards to potential of putting power to the ground the new R8 is superior to the NSX2.0.

Yeah I know what too fast means. I'm not saying the system is some guardian angel miracle worker. If you go into a turn that could be taken neutral at 50mph but you spaced out at the brake zone and you're carrying 80? Yeah into the gravel you go. But with the NSX, let's assume you could turn the torque vectoring off and you could carry 50 through without any understeer. Now try to hold 55 through the turn...yeah you lose the battle of mechanical grip and it starts under steering. Now try it as it is built, with torque vectoring. 55 through the turn and holding the line is now a reality.

yet the other cars without all the fancy SH-AWD torque vectoring systems are doing it better and faster. and some of the RWD cars are as well.

Jinks nailed it earlier in the thread...

I do think if all those fancy gizmos actually beat some of the competition in that "specific price range" it would be a different story. But it is not. Simple and plain. But one can always argue that a loosing team played well.

 

[scammy]

cant even sell them in Japan its been listed since the beginning of the month
http://www.goo-net-exchange.com/usedcars/HONDA/NSX/700110010830170101001/index.html

 

[Jinks]

My favorite post all day...

 

[JD Cross]

cant even sell them in Japan its been listed since the beginning of the month
http://www.goo-net-exchange.com/usedcars/HONDA/NSX/700110010830170101001/index.html

I think it's a LHD US Acura model being advertised.
A grey market import perhaps?

 

[scammy]

I think it's a LHD US Acura model being advertised.
A grey market import perhaps?

under "steering" it says right
but the photo's show otherwise

 

[JD Cross]

under "steering" it says right
but the photo's show otherwise

And the VIN is a US number.
So maybe bought in the US and shipped to Japan before the official Japan launch in hopes of making some $$ ?
Perhaps one of the reasons it hasn't sold?

 

[scammy]

And the VIN is a US number.
So maybe bought in the US and shipped to Japan before the official Japan launch in hopes of making some $$ ?
Perhaps one of the reasons it hasn't sold?

could be still hasn't sold tho, I was actually looking for older NSX's to import and this came up

 

[Bricks and Bio]

Honda Japan only ordered 100 cars for year 1 and they sold out

someone saw a market for I porting US cars to Japan

the NSX specialists were contacted to help with importing them

i believe 2 have gone to Japan so far

 

[docjohn]

lol 144 month financing.....http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...w-Car-Over-239-000-New-144-Month-Financing-Ac.

 

[Bram]

Another data point, there were 40 sold to real customers in Canada for 2016.

Bram

 

[JD Cross]

could be still hasn't sold tho, I was actually looking for older NSX's to import and this came up

Would this be a cheaper way to get the new NSX to NZ?

 

[JD Cross]

Another data point, there were 40 sold to real customers in Canada for 2016.Bram

It was actually 50 cars not 40 for 2016

 

[Bram]

It was actually 50 cars not 40 for 2016

I guess the Folks at Acura Canada don't know how much NSX they actually sold in 2016 to real customers!

Bram

 

[JD Cross]

I guess the Folks at Acura Canada don't know how much NSX they actually sold in 2016 to real customers!Bram

If you have more accurate numbers than these post them.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/07/acura-nsx-sales-figures-usa-canada.html

 

[Elistan]

The official number from Honda is indeed 50 NSXs sold in Canada.
http://www.hondanews.ca/en/honda/pr...-Consecutive-Year-of-Record-Annual-Auto-Sales

 

[powdbyrice]

Lets not forget the crushing news science of speed left of recently of how much power the car actually makes.

stupid method of advertising hybrid HP by just adding everything together.

its appropriate for the gas engine only.