Here is the place, post your opinions here.
Last edited:
New NSX is not selling? it's overpriced?
- Thread starter topman2005
- Start date
- Status
Lightly optioned, the NSX (in the $160's) is fairly and competitively priced, unless you think it deserves a discount for being a "Honda."
It is not a screaming "bang for buck" bargain like the GT-R (when first released) or the C7 Z06, but not "overpriced."
On the other hand, highly optioned (Carbon brakes, lots of aesthetic bits) cars being offered at premiums to MSRP are obviously sitting on showroom floors for many months.
So it depends on what question you are asking.
It is not a screaming "bang for buck" bargain like the GT-R (when first released) or the C7 Z06, but not "overpriced."
On the other hand, highly optioned (Carbon brakes, lots of aesthetic bits) cars being offered at premiums to MSRP are obviously sitting on showroom floors for many months.
So it depends on what question you are asking.
fastaussie
Suspended
cars at MSRP are also sitting on showroom floors.
my opinion, underwhelming at any price, due to the prestigious and fast company it keeps...
my opinion, underwhelming at any price, due to the prestigious and fast company it keeps...
So you've said once or twice..........
fastaussie
Suspended
yeah mate, that's what people do on forums, they say stuff. the OP asked, and he has now received.
and the general Supercar buying public seems to agree with my opinion... :wink:
and the general Supercar buying public seems to agree with my opinion... :wink:
- Joined
- 23 February 2016
- Messages
- 2,591
FA
a while back you mention some interactions/relationship you had with Leno
any chance you might be able to discuss the new NSX with him and share that here?
a while back you mention some interactions/relationship you had with Leno
any chance you might be able to discuss the new NSX with him and share that here?
I keep thinking I'll be pushed into the corner for being a Nancy Negative, or that Michael Cao and Jhae or others will shun me at the next NSXPO we meet up at for picking on the Gen-2 so much, but IMHO certain design elements are just too kitschy or just plain unattractive to allow more emotions to open up more wallets. Sure it may be lovely to some but they're unfortunately in the minority from what I have seen. Take any photo of a gen-2 without the kitschy Cuisinart wheels and place your finger over the fascia to hide the distractingly Predator-like grille, and suddenly a really promising, attractive shape takes hold, like an ugly duckling just transformed before your eyes. Looks like a completely different car when your eyes can relax away from the Predator beak grille. That's my story & I'm sticking to it.
LOL. Lexus has the Predator grill. Acura has the parrot beak. I think people. Looks for excuses NOT to buy. I'm certainly no letting the grill stop me from buying the new LC500h.
Do you really think people look for rationale to NOT buy something? I tend to look for excuses TO buy something while I react to reasons to NOT buy something.
Please realize I'm not criticizing you or anyone who may love the beak/Predator spindle grilles if not just indifferently tolerate it - there obviously are enough folk to keep Acura & Lexus from the bankruptcy that would be guaranteed if I were their only potential customer. But I think there's a real deafness @HONDA from ignoring the vast majority (a majority as far as I've seen & heard) who don't exactly love the beak look or certain other design experiments and who can't see spending $30k for something they have no desire to do look-backs to. Emotions drive many a car purchase, and I think many sales are lost by holding onto that ridiculous beak, especially for a halo car like the gen-2. I most definitely fall into that category, where Acuras are temporarily off my radar while they go thru their ugly grille experimental phase. Sure, take some risks, but why deafly ignore the past 10 years of general feedback on the beak. Actually, I have yet to meet someone who loves the beak/spindle look, but I know many who hate it while most are indifferent & can tolerate it. Some don't even notice it and are badge-purchasers. I am most definitely speaking about close friends, causal acquaintances, co-workers, family, etc. and not making up generalizations about imagined people. Glad you like the LC500h for probably many reasons. Though, do you love the grille look, or are you just indifferent? Big difference between the two. Same question to the Gen-2. Love, hate, or indifferent? Again, no criticism, no disrespect intended!
Last edited:
Do you really think people look for rationale to NOT buy something? I tend to look for excuses TO buy something while I react to reasons to NOT buy something.
Glad you like the LC500h for probably many reasons. Though, do you love the grille look, or are you just indifferent? Big difference between the two. Same question to the Gen-2. Love, hate, or indifferent? Again, no criticism, no disrespect intended!
I spend more time INSIDE the vehicle than looking at the grille. So that component rates pretty low on my list. But hey, to each their own. Clearly the price they've set is not the NSX issue in your opinion.
With that said, I do greatly prefer the front and rear of the LP610 over the LP580. And the front and rear of the Aventador SV over the Aventador S. So yes, when spending $300K and $500K+ respectively, those things matter. But a $100K LC, not so much, it's utilitarian.
Last edited:
As it's in the low range of supercars within $150k-300k, price is not the main issue in my opinion, yes. Nor is lack of pedigree, weight, and lack of a manual trans. That's just an opinion, and like my rear end, it's an important one because it's mine.
You sir have some fine taste in cars, tip of the hat to you. And you did just acknowledge that looks really do matter, just with the caveat that people's tolerances to the ugly stick can differ depending upon their personal taste (or wallet thickness).
I think for many, $100k for a utilitarian car or $175k for a fun car is not chump change, unfortunately, especially on this site where the majority of us purchased pre-owned gen-1's largely due its reliability/value as a key factor. So it better also look good for the times it's not being driven, to feel good about spending the $$. If I were in the market for a $2500 riding mower, I could care less if the front fascia was spray painted to look like Chewbacca as long as it met other more important requirements than appearance. For my $40k pre-owned NSX toy car or $30k utilitarian commuter, I need to enjoy looking at it, which played a major factor in my car buying decisions. The gen-2 doesn't look pretty enough upfront to have made it onto my computer as even a screen saver, sadly for me. Well I've beaten this horse too much yet again. Love your car collection, hope to see photos of them in other threads sometime.
Last edited:
What's so revolutionary or special about the new NSX?
The original had a lot of firsts
-First US production car with VTEC
-First All aluminum chassis & body panels
-First? with Titanium Rods
-Had Magnesium lower intake manifold and valve covers
-Was faster than it's competitor - the Ferrari 348 - which debut a year before the NSX came out.
-First reliable, useable, supercar
-Forced Ferrari, Lamborgini, and the whole market to step up and make more reliable cars that weren't exhausting to drive, and that you could live with on a daily basis.
The New NSX's relative competitor (which debut a year before it came out) is the 488. I've heard the NSX 2.0 is faster than a 458, but what about the much faster 488?
-Prius came out with a Hybrid a long time ago
-918 came out as a supercar hybrid
-So the new NSX is a 'moderately priced' hybrid supercar?
-the new NSX has two independent electric motors?
It wont be long until most non-million dollar super and sports cars are hybrid. With Ferrari announcing their new cars will be Hybrids and Ford said the Mustang will be a Hybrid, where does the new NSX fall to remain legendary and 'game changing' like the original? Just occupying the $50K-$800K hybrid sports car niche with two electric front motors within a span of maybe 3-4 years?
0.02
The original had a lot of firsts
-First US production car with VTEC
-First All aluminum chassis & body panels
-First? with Titanium Rods
-Had Magnesium lower intake manifold and valve covers
-Was faster than it's competitor - the Ferrari 348 - which debut a year before the NSX came out.
-First reliable, useable, supercar
-Forced Ferrari, Lamborgini, and the whole market to step up and make more reliable cars that weren't exhausting to drive, and that you could live with on a daily basis.
The New NSX's relative competitor (which debut a year before it came out) is the 488. I've heard the NSX 2.0 is faster than a 458, but what about the much faster 488?
-Prius came out with a Hybrid a long time ago
-918 came out as a supercar hybrid
-So the new NSX is a 'moderately priced' hybrid supercar?
-the new NSX has two independent electric motors?
It wont be long until most non-million dollar super and sports cars are hybrid. With Ferrari announcing their new cars will be Hybrids and Ford said the Mustang will be a Hybrid, where does the new NSX fall to remain legendary and 'game changing' like the original? Just occupying the $50K-$800K hybrid sports car niche with two electric front motors within a span of maybe 3-4 years?
0.02
Stop talking bad about those two hampsters behind the wheels. They are someone's family. Bwah ha ha ha.
You cannot even swap rotors out on the car it has so much fancy tech which is absolutely useless. Which, other brands are exploiting. The car is lost software floating in cyberspace. Maybe if you still have an aol account it opens up more power.:biggrin:
The R8 may be hideous, but it is a 10 second car without a single pound per square inch of boost! Or hampsters...
Who cares if the Gen 1 NSX was more groundbreaking than the Gen 2 NSX? Who cares that the new NSX is even branded "NSX" at all? Does that make it any more or less desirable? Why?
The car is what it is. Anyone looking to drop $200K on a sports car should have a close look at the NSX and buy it if they like it. Otherwise, not. Simple as that.
Why are so many Gen 1 owners so butt-hurt that Honda didn't make the car they were fantasizing about? Don't like it? No problem. Don't buy one.
Bottom line: if driving the NSX aggressively on street or track does not put a smile on your face, then you need to surrender your "Car Guy" card. Doesn't mean its the ideal car for everyone, but hating on it and suggesting that it is not a great car in some absolute sense is just silly.
The car is what it is. Anyone looking to drop $200K on a sports car should have a close look at the NSX and buy it if they like it. Otherwise, not. Simple as that.
Why are so many Gen 1 owners so butt-hurt that Honda didn't make the car they were fantasizing about? Don't like it? No problem. Don't buy one.
Bottom line: if driving the NSX aggressively on street or track does not put a smile on your face, then you need to surrender your "Car Guy" card. Doesn't mean its the ideal car for everyone, but hating on it and suggesting that it is not a great car in some absolute sense is just silly.
Last edited:
- Joined
- 23 February 2016
- Messages
- 2,591
I see the beef in that Honda has not supported their current/former customers.
Porsche is in the sports car business, they never forget that for even a day.
Honda will do a special project here and there. You just have to be thankful for what they do decide to bring to us, otherwise bitterness sets in.
I had my car out today. plenty of thumbs ups and cameraphone shots, and one guy in a new Clubman was extremely complimentary when we stopped at a light.
Porsche is in the sports car business, they never forget that for even a day.
Honda will do a special project here and there. You just have to be thankful for what they do decide to bring to us, otherwise bitterness sets in.
I had my car out today. plenty of thumbs ups and cameraphone shots, and one guy in a new Clubman was extremely complimentary when we stopped at a light.
- Joined
- 23 August 2016
- Messages
- 362
It is a great car. Unfortunately, what it would take to make everyone really see that is just not something dealers can really accommodate for everyone interested in the car. What would be great is to take the McLaren 570 and the NSX to a track and take the Pepsi Challenge. Sure, I think we can all agree that the McLaren is the faster car...in the hands of a very skilled driver. So once people take a few laps in the McLaren and realize they they are a far cry from being The Stig because they overcooked a turn and wound up in the grass/gravel. But after a nervous wildly inconsistent few laps with the McLaren, they take a turn with the NSX and see how easy and forgiving it is. And because the car's techno-magic enables them to stay in control it gives them more confidence and they have more fun. Yes, there's a bit of an artificial feel to it, but that's the price to pay for the car making up the skill gap. I think I've seen you say you also have a C7 Z06. So you know exactly what I'm talking about when I say the NSX is very forgiving compared to other cars as the Z06, while ultimately faster, does require a lot more driver skill to prove that.
I think the biggest reason for the Gen1 butt hurt thing is the recent trend of moving away from more simple analog type cars. Manual transmissions going away, active aero, torque vectoring, variable ratio steering, active suspension, different driver modes, and so on. The Gen1 car didn't have any of that stuff and I think a lot of people may have been expecting a lightweight more powerful car with modern styling and none of that other technology. NSX buyers aren't the only one in this mindset. Look how fast the 911R sold out and how many Turbos are sitting unsold. I have a feeling if Ferrari made a limited run of 488s with a manual gearbox, marked it up $75k for the privledge of getting the third pedal, the thing would immediately sell out. Well hopefully the rumor holds true, and Honda does a RWD, no hybrid stuff, lightweight version of the NSX. Probably will still only have the 9DCT, but hopefully that car will be analog enough to satisfy the Gen1 purists.
fastaussie
Suspended
i haven't been in America since before Christmas mate, won't be back for a little while either. i'll gladly give you Leno's opinion when next i see him...
p.s. what i can already tell you, is that he likes the R8 Plus better.
psst, leave the traction control on and you'll never lose the McLaren no matter how hard you try. and i'm pretty sure it'll still be heaps faster and definitely more fun than the NSX...
you're not preaching to the choir here mate. looks like you're losing this one...:frown:
- Joined
- 23 August 2016
- Messages
- 362
How do you know? Driven both?
Traction control won't save you if you come into a corner too fast. The NSX's torque vectoring front end is a big help in that situation.
Track drivers don't use traction control......... (111 track days/12,000+ track miles and all with TCS off)
Remember this is coming from a Guy who have never even sat in the New NSX,.....so take it for what it is.
Bram
Bram
Don't confuse computer systems designed to increase safety with those designed to make you faster. Unless you are able to get "10.5 tenths" out of a given modern car (and some talented people can), most people are faster (or at least not slower) with those systems. This is for two reasons: (i) you can approach the limits / experiment with more confidence and (ii) the systems actually do stuff better than most humans which makes you faster. I am talking real-world stuff for non-pro-level.
Also, do you consider AWD and torque vectoring to be part of "Traction Control?" You'd for sure be slower if you turned that stuff off.
On back roads with unpredictable surface conditions, it would be nuts to go "all nannies off" in a modern car with unobtrusive systems. That's where the accessible performance of the NSX really shines.
Last edited:
Even F1 had traction control until it was banned. (And supposedly even while it was banned, for a little while.)
- Joined
- 23 August 2016
- Messages
- 362
I like that one, "accessible performance." Gonna use that one with clients from now on.
Absolutely, on regular roads I appreciate every computer aide in keeping the car on the pavement but on the track I want to drive the car and not have the car "make the decisions" for me.
For example, at Lime Rock when you come out of No Name Straight into the uphill (the old configuration, not the new one with the "chicane"), invariably if you are "doing it right" you catch a little air at the top. TCS would be dangerous if left on since generally at least one wheel will be off the ground and if TCS kicks in when all 4 are back on pavement some nasty things might happen with that inside guardrail........
Last edited:
Credit to my brother for that phrase. He's taken the NSX on Sunday drives with his Ferrari friends (all experienced track guys). He reports that the NSX smokes the 458, 430 and 360CS on the backroads (especially in damp conditions) just because of the way the NSX confidently lays down the power coming out of turns. AWD and hybrid TQ makes mere mortals faster in real-world conditions where no one wants to be at 9 or 10/10ths.
- Status
Similar threads
