ARKers said:
If it was one price the first time and a different, higher price this time....then yes the price did increase!
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New GB: ARK DT-S NSX Catback - 2nd Version
- Thread starter ARKers
- Start date
If it was one price the first time and a different, higher price this time....then yes the price did increase!
Intro price was $550 if I remember correctly which was the "intro" yeo referred to, then $629.00 as little as a week a week ago (plus shipping) and now this $769 (with shipping, but shipping costs on the unit are probably only averaging $25-30 your cost to the lower 48 states). You can word it however you want, but the truth is that you are alienating some potential customers with this tactic. By the way it's "lose", not loose. :wink:
- Joined
- 2 May 2005
- Messages
- 373
Shumdit said:
First intro 550.00 was previous design tip. And 629.00 was first 10set intro sale. And new GB which is 769.00 shipped 48 continental is new GB price. If you like to purchase better price, try Ebay. We have 2 auction list.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...=7998817000&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MESE:IT&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...=7999062563&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MESE:IT&rd=1
And our fedex Ground shipping quote generally come about 59.00 s/H
NSX: 50 " X 23 " X 13" Exhaust system box dimension. You can quote from fedex, how much is shipping.
ARKers said:
You can try weaseling around the issue with the word games all you want. My perception (and others here also from what I have seen) is that you guys are raising the prices monthly on these supposed group buys. If you want to build customer loyalty and word of mouth advertising (which is 100 times more valuable than print or other media advertising) you need to find some logic in your pricing. I can tell people this bic pen on my desk retails for $500, but today only I am offering it for $250.00 too. Any takers???
Also, your dimensions on the box compute to $13.96 for me to ship it within my own rate zone (with insurance) and $35.85 in the furthest rate zone from me as long as the actual weight is 70 lbs. or less, so either you are padding your profits or you need to renegotiate your rate contract with your shipper.
When you are ready to offer a truly great deal (like you offered 2-3 months back) let me know. Until then. I will pass, and I encourage others to do the same.
That is the problem with offering things cheap at the beginning. Once word gets out that it is a good item, everyone wants it for the initial offering price.
I totally understand that prices go up just like inflation. Look at housing prices as an example. If you were able to buy a piece of property for $300,000 2 years ago, the same property is probably selling for $500,000+ so it is a little unfair to try to get them to lower their price back down to their initial offering. I am sure production costs of these exhausts have gone up a little so they have to recoupe some of that. I think the prices are definitely a good price and if you ever come out with a quad tip version, please let me know. I am pretty happy with my Anytime Borla system but always open to something better if it is out there.
I totally understand that prices go up just like inflation. Look at housing prices as an example. If you were able to buy a piece of property for $300,000 2 years ago, the same property is probably selling for $500,000+ so it is a little unfair to try to get them to lower their price back down to their initial offering. I am sure production costs of these exhausts have gone up a little so they have to recoupe some of that. I think the prices are definitely a good price and if you ever come out with a quad tip version, please let me know. I am pretty happy with my Anytime Borla system but always open to something better if it is out there.
Litespeeds said:
While I agree with your assesment in general, I do not think your comparision is fair. Nationwide home prices have not jumped like that, only in certain well publicized areas of the country, and everyone knows it's a housing bubble that will burst leaving a lot of buyers in financial black holes, so let's not use that comparison. Also, we are not talking about 2 years, we are talking a couple of months,during which inflation has been next to nothing.
If I am not mistaken these exhausts are made overseas, so our inflation really would have little to do with their production costs. Unless our dollar significantly weakened since the time of they offered the deal (a few months back) vs. the currency of the manufacturing facility, I do not agree with your logic. If they had gone from $550 a few months back to $575.00 I would say that was understandable, but from $550 to $769 (both prices including shipping) is not reasonable, and before ARKers preaches about the new tip design, save your typing, because we all know the cost of the different tips is fairly insignificant.
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Litespeeds said:
I am not sure it is fair to compare an auto part with the real estate market. It is just an exhaust. Unlike real estate, auto parts depreciate once become used.
I think you are missing Shumdit's point.... he feels that ARK's indiscriminant pricing is making us feel as if we are getting gouged. And I for one don't blame him. This isn't an airline seat... if you buy it on Tue is $500, if you wait until Fri it's $629. But wait now that its Thr, it's $522 but only if you have it delivered next week. And charging outrageous shipping costs just plain makes my stumach turn.... pick a fair price with a descent margin and shipping should be cost plain and simple. If ARK plays Micky Mouse before the sale, I just wonder about the service after.
Thats the problem with " introductory pricing " it establishes the market price. All others afterwards feel they are being screwed. As a buisness owner myself ,I am damn carefull to set a proper price to begin with in fear of cutting my own throat down the line. Especially on the internet where the price is cast in stone for all to see even at a later date.
Litespeeds said:
Too bad the Anytime is no longer an option. Great exhaust that sounds wonderful at a good price. John... you listening... how 'bout coming back into the pool... the water's nice :biggrin:
It was my bad for using property for comparison. This exhaust is definitely a very inexpensive exhaust and there really isn't anything out there that can beat it. The quality looks very good and I have heard one and it sounds great. Not the 2nd version but the 1st. Most NSX exhausts sell for over $1000+ so I think Ark shot themselves on the foot for giving such a low introductory price to get people to buy their product. If anyone feels this exhaust is not worth $769.00 then don't buy it but people shouldn't encourage other's to not purchase it just because they saw it selling for less a few months ago. 
I agree with you. Just because they had an introductory price for their first appearance on the NSX, it doesn't mean that they'll continue that price forever.
Litespeeds said:If anyone feels this exhaust is not worth $769.00 then don't buy it but people shouldn't encourage other's to not purchase it just because they saw it selling for less a few months ago.
ark - like most suppliers - will price their products to the extent the market will bear... they're just a little more blatant (and, pardon the pun) not very well in tune about introducing pricing changes to this particular market.
if the market does not accept these prices, ark will adjust their prices accordingly as they have done in the past - few mfg's want inventory.
if the market does not accept these prices, ark will adjust their prices accordingly as they have done in the past - few mfg's want inventory.
OK... how does the exhaust sound? How loud is it compared to stock, or compared to other aftermarket exhausts? I appreciate the audio clips but it is hard to get a grip on how the actual exhaust sounds... When will ARK have a clip for the new Quad tip? In car clip would be great, as it is hard to get a sense of how it sounds just reving the engine.
I have free airfare, so I guess I will have to try and find someone East of the Mississippi to demo it for me.
I have free airfare, so I guess I will have to try and find someone East of the Mississippi to demo it for me.
Just make it out to NSXPO in Arizona and you will probably get your chance to listen to all the different exhausts that are out for the NSX. Everybody has their own opinions on what they like and what they don't care for so make sure you ride in a car that has an exhaust that you are considering before you buy it. That is if you have that chance.
It is true that companies can only sell products at pricing that people are only willing to pay and nobody wants excess inventory. I am sure that is why they are setting up group buys so that way they can produce only the amount of exhausts that people are willing to buy without over producing and sitting on inventory.
I just think it is unfair for anyone to discourage people from buying just so the company will lower their prices to their acceptable levels. Maybe because I own my own business and feel for them. If the exhaust was a cheap unit that really don't compare to the $1,000+ systems that are currently out for the NSX, then yes, I would agree that the price increase does not justify what you are getting. Please tell us what compares to this exhaust at the $750 range.
It is true that companies can only sell products at pricing that people are only willing to pay and nobody wants excess inventory. I am sure that is why they are setting up group buys so that way they can produce only the amount of exhausts that people are willing to buy without over producing and sitting on inventory.
I just think it is unfair for anyone to discourage people from buying just so the company will lower their prices to their acceptable levels. Maybe because I own my own business and feel for them. If the exhaust was a cheap unit that really don't compare to the $1,000+ systems that are currently out for the NSX, then yes, I would agree that the price increase does not justify what you are getting. Please tell us what compares to this exhaust at the $750 range.
Just be thankful that Ark made a high quality low price product for a niche market.
Time will tell if it is the quality of other exhausts out there. I think 4-5 months is a little too soon to be establishing a track record for longevity. My point is that they are very inconsistent with the "group buy" pricing, and I also dislike companies that overcharge for shipping, or require you to pay the freight even if you want to pick it up from them.
I also own my own company, so I understand the need to keep profits at a level to sustain the company, but in this case, the price keeps going up (and not by 5 or 10 bucks) every month or so. To make a fair analogy (since they are the manufacturer) let's not talk about what I would do to a retail customer, since this is not the same as them selling direct. A fair comparision would be if I were buying as a dealer from the manufacturer and they kept telling me dealer cost was going up 10% a month. How long before I stopped buying from them? But the way I see this is they likely took another company's design, reverse engineered it, had it made overseas, and are raking in plenty of profit since they are selling direct with little to no R&D costs. Is that wrong? Not at all, but they know what their costs are, so selling it for 40% more than it sold for a few months ago is not giving anyone one a deal who pays the inflated price (and gives them the extra $25-45 profit that they are probably making on the shipping costs (since I am certain that they should be getting rates as good as I am considering their size). If they can make any money at $550.00 shipped, then surely $220 more profit is more profit than I would deem necessary to consider the fact that they are making a group buy. I have group buys at times also. The reason for them is to move more volume and overall make more profit than I would selling 1 or 2 of the items at normal price. In this case, I do not see the margins down there to where I feel we, as consumers, are getting the true savings that a group buy would normally offer, especially considering the $550 shipped price of a few months back. If they whored themselves out on the price back then, that's a problem they created, and posts about it in other threads prove I am not the only one who thinks they are not giving a deal. Whoever wants to buy at that price, obviously will do so, but I am calling them out on the "deal" they hype up here at Prime, since I do not see eye to eye with them on it. I have a feeling some of the people (Zenn?) who are supporting their side are ones who already bought one from them at an earlier price, so have no reason to side against them.
I also own my own company, so I understand the need to keep profits at a level to sustain the company, but in this case, the price keeps going up (and not by 5 or 10 bucks) every month or so. To make a fair analogy (since they are the manufacturer) let's not talk about what I would do to a retail customer, since this is not the same as them selling direct. A fair comparision would be if I were buying as a dealer from the manufacturer and they kept telling me dealer cost was going up 10% a month. How long before I stopped buying from them? But the way I see this is they likely took another company's design, reverse engineered it, had it made overseas, and are raking in plenty of profit since they are selling direct with little to no R&D costs. Is that wrong? Not at all, but they know what their costs are, so selling it for 40% more than it sold for a few months ago is not giving anyone one a deal who pays the inflated price (and gives them the extra $25-45 profit that they are probably making on the shipping costs (since I am certain that they should be getting rates as good as I am considering their size). If they can make any money at $550.00 shipped, then surely $220 more profit is more profit than I would deem necessary to consider the fact that they are making a group buy. I have group buys at times also. The reason for them is to move more volume and overall make more profit than I would selling 1 or 2 of the items at normal price. In this case, I do not see the margins down there to where I feel we, as consumers, are getting the true savings that a group buy would normally offer, especially considering the $550 shipped price of a few months back. If they whored themselves out on the price back then, that's a problem they created, and posts about it in other threads prove I am not the only one who thinks they are not giving a deal. Whoever wants to buy at that price, obviously will do so, but I am calling them out on the "deal" they hype up here at Prime, since I do not see eye to eye with them on it. I have a feeling some of the people (Zenn?) who are supporting their side are ones who already bought one from them at an earlier price, so have no reason to side against them.
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I was blown away in regards to the quality and sound of the ark exhaust. (which is literally sounding better each week)And was fortunate enough to get mine during the first GB . Even at this new price its still 25% cheaper than most other exhausts offered for our cars.
Why doesn't Ark just answer these questions themselves? They do real well answering questions when it pertains to making a potential sale/info on their product. Bottom line for me was that price just got too high to reconsider letting my RSR go and replace it with this one.
-Val
-Val
Shumdit said:
Then dont buy one.
I am not going to bother responding with more than this sentence because you obviously do not get the point, and it would be wasted time for me to put it in terms you could understand.
Your right , I dont understand your nonsensical incessant complaining and longwinded analogies over a product by which you the consumer can voice your dissatisfaction by simply not purchasing.
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- Joined
- 2 May 2005
- Messages
- 373
Our company intention wasn't this... And I do get the points of Mr. Sumndit posts. But everyone missed our MSRP price which we posted since beggining post. Some members had only counted our company FIRST INTRO PRICE. Which caused price confusion. The First Version 1 INTRODUCTION Price made from our Headquarter from Korea. It was as said " INTRODUCTION PRICE " which means no gains for company. Our manufacture always give away first product to consumer and 10 first production to test fit and valuation. Even other market exhaust we did same sponsorship or test.
And our manufacture offer us to loose our profit to NSX enthusiats get our product evaluation. And we did with sucessful and we had excellent reptation valuation with VER. 1 ARK exhaust system. But since we made a NEW VERSION of DT-S, we had to invest new mold machine and new tip design, interior up graded for better sound. And the product cost definately goes up if anyone know about business. But I guess we estimated too lower INTRODUCTION price. But it was good for the whom already purchased.
Our ARK exhausts are made in Korea with strict quality control and made to industries finest standards. And we're over 15 years for OEM manufature for HYUNDAI , GM DELPHI, SUZUKI, HONDA. So it means our quality can guarantee better warranty on produts & service.
We can always lower our manufacture cost. if you would like to install $500.00 Exhaust system such as Honda Civic rice sound ? we definately customize your exhaust system. But if you're luxury sport car driver, I don't reconmend lower value system, because you get pay what you paid. Remember, ARK always can make lower quality Exhaust system if OEM manufature request or trying to drop the cost. But we don't ! because ARK stands for company slogan " Extreme quality Extreme performance ".
I think previous ARK product buyers experienced our ARK customer service & our product quality. We had 100% positive feedback so far... And we will constantly keep our company slogan.
And also for FREIGHT ( Shipping & handling) : The dimension of box is about 50" X 23" X 13" ( Actual Weight 35lbs with packaging), But since our dimension is big, you should count as density weigh which cost more shipping cost. And we also request signiture request, and insured product. And we always wecome using your shipping carrier or WILL CALL customer.
I hope some members understand our situation. :wink:
And our manufacture offer us to loose our profit to NSX enthusiats get our product evaluation. And we did with sucessful and we had excellent reptation valuation with VER. 1 ARK exhaust system. But since we made a NEW VERSION of DT-S, we had to invest new mold machine and new tip design, interior up graded for better sound. And the product cost definately goes up if anyone know about business. But I guess we estimated too lower INTRODUCTION price. But it was good for the whom already purchased.
Our ARK exhausts are made in Korea with strict quality control and made to industries finest standards. And we're over 15 years for OEM manufature for HYUNDAI , GM DELPHI, SUZUKI, HONDA. So it means our quality can guarantee better warranty on produts & service.
We can always lower our manufacture cost. if you would like to install $500.00 Exhaust system such as Honda Civic rice sound ? we definately customize your exhaust system. But if you're luxury sport car driver, I don't reconmend lower value system, because you get pay what you paid. Remember, ARK always can make lower quality Exhaust system if OEM manufature request or trying to drop the cost. But we don't ! because ARK stands for company slogan " Extreme quality Extreme performance ".
I think previous ARK product buyers experienced our ARK customer service & our product quality. We had 100% positive feedback so far... And we will constantly keep our company slogan.
And also for FREIGHT ( Shipping & handling) : The dimension of box is about 50" X 23" X 13" ( Actual Weight 35lbs with packaging), But since our dimension is big, you should count as density weigh which cost more shipping cost. And we also request signiture request, and insured product. And we always wecome using your shipping carrier or WILL CALL customer.
I hope some members understand our situation. :wink:
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Zennsx said:
Wow, nice use of big words. I hope reading your post made you feel smug, but since it is not contributing to the conversation other than showing me your vocabulary skills, and your desire to support the opposing viewpoint, I will kindly ask you to refrain addressing me until such time that you can come down and talk to me on my simple-minded level (I am from the South you know :biggrin: )
ARKers said:
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Your explanation does help, but I would like it if you could answer a few other questions:
Taking the $550 price out of the conversation, based on your "at cost" introductiory price, why did the same exhaust that was selling 12 days for $629.00 plus shipping (as part of a group buy) go to $710.00 (since you say $59.00 is shipping). Before you claim that the $629.00 was also an "at cost" price, you might want to read your post on it where you call it a group buy and an annivesary sale.
As for the shipping, you told a customer in another thread that he would have to pay the $550.00 regardless of whether or not he picked it up, and if your cost was $59.00 to ship it, I would think you would have told him to pick it up for $500.00 and made $10 more for yourself, but maybe I am overlooking something. Also, I entered your dimensions into the shipping cost calculator to give me the prices I told you (and as I mentioned the dimensional weight is 70 lbs. so as long as the box weighs 70 lbs. or less it would be the correct price).
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